Issue with Vet

whippet

Is there any official channel that complaints can be made about over charging by a Vet?

I feel that my mother has been totally ripped off by a Vet recently. Her dog (a old terrier) has been sick for a couple of days and she brought her to a Vet (not the usual vet as she didn't have a car to drive and walked to a local one).

The dog was taken in over night put on a drip and given a course of antibiotics for a infection in the womb. The vet discussed the option of surgery to remove the womb but more or less told my mother that surgery would be too much on the dog and suggested a further course of antibiotics.

For one night in the clinic and x-ray and course of antibiotics my mother was charged the princely sum of €527. (there is a full break down on the bill)

A couple of days later I called over and it was obvious the dog was worse not better. I took the dog to my Vet who took her in, put her on drip and decided after a couple of hours to operate with full confidence that the dog would survive and even thrive after the procedure.

We agreed on this course of action and due to work commitments the dog spent 4 nights in the Vet, had the operation, antibiotics, pain medicine and two weeks of recovery feed ... for this I was charged €345.

Looking at the costs between the two Vets there is obviously something not right. My mother is a pensioner and would spend money she doesn't have on her dog ... in my opinion she was scalped by this Vet. She has already made a complaint to the Vet but was brushed away and told that this is the cost .. end of story.

anniehoo

Did your mother get an estimate/quote before her dog was admitted? That certainly sounds extortionate alright.

Whilst vets are not legally obliged to display prices they should give you an estimate especially if the bill is likely to be in the hundreds.

The Veterinary Council of Ireland deals mainly with professional misconduct in the profession, but I wouldn't class this as misconduct as such. I would be more likely to approach the National Consumer Agency and see what they say about overcharging.

Would you have the breakdown of the bill you could post?

aonb

maybe you could go to this vet with the 2 bills, and ask to speak to someone to discuss the huge charge. Go there diplomatically, and suggest that maybe an error was made - give them the benefit of the doubt in the event that they would back down a bit or just get them to justify that huge charge?

That bill sounds exhorbitant - recently had my dog in vet with drips/meds/antiobiotics/overnightx2 for something like E250 or less.

Your poor mother - dont make her feel worse by making a big deal about it in front of her though (older people 'feel' these things more I think) - hope her little dog has a full recovery and is with her for a long time now.

whippet

when I picked her up on Saturday and dropped her back to my mam .. I say the original bill and went up to the Vets - there was no one there to talk to except a nurse who looked about 12 years of age.

From talking to my mam who is a little all over the place at the moment (my dad is in hospital for the last couple of weeks too - so his home alone) .. I think she did ask what the costs were after the first night and when they gave her running total she was afraid as to what the cost of a potential operation would have been and that would have help her accept the dog back on antibiotics.

If they were to do the operation the bill would have been in the region of €850-900 quid which is in the region of 250% more expensive than the Vet who actually sent the dog home better.

i'll get hold of a copy of the bill tomorrow and post it up .. i'm absolutely sickened by this.

Whispered

It sounds expensive but if you got a breakdown of prices and they haven't charged you for things they didn't carry out I would worry there isn't a whole lot that can be done. Your poor mam.

Also, I understand you're annoyed but I fail to see what the nurses appearance has to do with anything.

Aru

Different vets have different costs.
If she was made aware of an estimate of treatment and was given a full breakdown of the bill then the vets have done nothing wrong I am afraid.
It does sound like they are a consistently expensive practice though,not that they deliberately scammed your mother out of money.More they are just dear in general,850 to 900 is dear for a pyo surgery.Though I suspect that would involve a drip and extra monitoring etc(it had better at that price)
Buyer beware.

I do think that that inital cost was very expensive btw! Was there an out of hours call in it or something?or is it sedation and xrays that have it so expensive....

whippet

there were x-rays on the bill alright .. i don't know the cost off hand.

it wasn't an out of hours thing .. tuesday afternoon, the first mention of costs was when she got the call the following day with the breakdown and what they did.

its obviously just a case of being a very expensive practice .. but as with all these things word of mouth can be very very quick to spread .. especially amongst dog owners.

I have requested a call back from 'a manager' and once I have had this conversation I will consider how I will proceed.

It is quite clear that my own Vet did much more work and provided a better service including an operation for a fraction of the price of this place. I mentioned the bill to my Vet and his response .. or more notably lack of response .. as in 'no comment - i wouldn't like to talk about them' spoke volumes about his feelings towards them.

OldNotWIse

whippet wrote: »

there were x-rays on the bill alright .. i don't know the cost off hand.

it wasn't an out of hours thing .. tuesday afternoon, the first mention of costs was when she got the call the following day with the breakdown and what they did.

its obviously just a case of being a very expensive practice .. but as with all these things word of mouth can be very very quick to spread .. especially amongst dog owners.

I have requested a call back from 'a manager' and once I have had this conversation I will consider how I will proceed.

It is quite clear that my own Vet did much more work and provided a better service including an operation for a fraction of the price of this place. I mentioned the bill to my Vet and his response .. or more notably lack of response .. as in 'no comment - i wouldn't like to talk about them' spoke volumes about his feelings towards them.

I think that is probably just normal behavior from a professional who would not talk behind the back of another in his field.

whippet

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I think that is probably just normal behavior from a professional who would not talk behind the back of another in his field.

maybe or maybe not ... it was obvious I wasn't the first person who was complaining about the other vet to him.

Anyway; I have left a couple of messages for the vet this morning and still have heard nothing back. I will leave it until lunch time tomorrow morning before I ensure that word spreads quickly around the locality.

cocker5

Im going to say unless you list out everything that on the bill it’s very hard to say if it’s expensive or not , 4 nights in the vet, antibiotics possibly x-rays etc…

I’ll give you an example, my guy was in the vets in March, 2 extensive bloods tests and another sample sent externally, all costing €370 , now in theory all the did was take 2 viles of blood from him but in reality they did a lot of work behind the scenes im not aware with his blood and he didn’t have to spend any nights in the vets…

another example, he’s getting his teeth cleaned in the vets this Thursday, it’s costing €240 he’s being knocked out etc. plus €50 for follow up blood test… so all in all €290 and again all this with no overnight fee.

BUT what I will say is before I brought my guy for blood tests or before he’s getting his teeth cleaned my vet emailed me a full cost “estimation” so I would be aware before proceeding.

talk to your vet and see what exactly was carried out for that fee.

Aru

What word can you spread really though..that they are expensive?
The treatments followed sound like they were adequate. Anything else would be slander....

Vets are not allowed to bad mouth each other to clients...no matter how tempting.Its considered unprofessional.

Pay the bill providing they can give you a full account of what the charges were for,they did provide the care, and then never darken their door again. Problem solved.

Your vet is exceptionally cheap if you are in dublin btw. A iv drip, pyo surgery, ab's, painkillers, 4 nights hospitalisation and that much recovery food....for 345. You would do well to get that price anywhere in Ireland.

Oh and spread the word to everyone you know to spay their female dogs so people don't end up having to put their elderly animals under emergency surgery. To few people realise how common uterine infections are and they are very much preventable.

whippet

My mam has the full breakdown on the invoice, from what I can remember it lists:

1x Initial Consultation
1x Drip
1x X-Ray
1x Sedation for x-ray
3x X-Ray
1x Antibiotics
1x Health Check
1x Clinic Stay
1x Antibiotics (to take home)

The total of all this amounted to €527 (and the dog was still sick coming home)

My Vet charged €345 for 4 nights, Pyo Surgery, Antibiotics, Drip, pain killers and a weeks worth of recovery feed.

It just seems to be a case of a horrendously expensive Vet.

whippet

Aru wrote: »

Pay the bill providing they can give you a full account of what the charges were for,they did provide the care, and then never darken their door again. Problem solved.

the bill is already paid .. by my mother.

Aru wrote: »

Your vet is exceptionally cheap if you are in dublin btw. A iv drip, pyo surgery, ab's, painkillers, 4 nights hospitalisation and that much recovery food....for 345. You would do well to get that price anywhere in Ireland.

I'm not in Dublin, but not too far from dublin either. My Vet may sound cheap, but I have been using him for 7 years with my hound and my parents have been using him for about 20 years. It was just this time my dad was in hospital and my mam didn't have transport so decided to carry her up to the Vet within walking distance.

Aru wrote: »

Oh and spread the word to everyone you know to spay their female dogs so people don't end up having to put their elderly animals under emergency surgery. To few people realise how common uterine infections are and they are very much preventable.

This I well know, unfortunately it was something my dad wouldn't do, the dog was found as a stray and we actually don't know how old she is (my guess is about 10-12 years old) ... his other dog is spayed.

Aru

That is extremely expensive if thats the invoice!
Its around 200/150 over what I would have thought that sort of bill would come to...even if there was an ultrasound etc in it it seems very very high.

Have they been open for long?

whippet

Aru wrote: »

That is extremely expensive if thats the invoice!
Its around 200/150 over what I would have thought that sort of bill would come to...even if there was an ultrasound etc in it it seems very very high.

Have they been open for long?

i think they are there about 3 years.

anniehoo

You've listed 4 X rays. Do you know what they were of? This would be your biggest outlay in the bill imo. Even still, I would expect the very very max to pay is €200 for xrays. I'm struggling to see how the bill comes to €500+

whippet

anniehoo wrote: »

You've listed 4 X rays. Do you know what they were of? This would be your biggest outlay in the bill imo. Even still, I would expect the very very max to pay is €200 for xrays. I'm struggling to see how the bill comes to €500+

the actual wording on the lines for the x-rays are:

1x x-ray set-up and plate
3x additional x-ray plates

Aru

any bloods or ultrasound done? I can see why you are so angry thats a hugh bill for what seems to have been done.

whippet

Aru wrote: »

any bloods or ultrasound done? I can see why you are so angry thats a hugh bill for what seems to have been done.

neither of these are listed on the invoice.

anniehoo

1x Initial Consultation (~€50)
1x Drip (~€30)
4x X-Ray (~€200)
1x Sedation for x-ray (~€20)
1x Antibiotics (~€10)
1x Health Check (~€50 if this includes bloods)
1x Clinic Stay (~€25)
1x Antibiotics (to take home) (~€10)

This is a rough guess and estimating very high. I got to €395 and that's pushing it.

Aru

1x Initial Consultation (~€50)
1x Drip (~€50)
4x X-Ray (~€200)
1x Sedation for x-ray (~€40)
1x Antibiotics (~€10)
1x Health Check (~€80 if this includes bloods)
1x Clinic Stay (~€25)
1x Antibiotics (to take home) (~€20)

THis was my estimations going from the most expensive prices I could think of...475....and I think that would be excessive to the extreme.

I agree OP,I just cannot see where the cost came from?

whippet

not alone was the cost high .. the dog still came back sick.

The vet's recommendation was that the dog wouldn't get through the operation and at a cost of another couple of hundred quid .. my mother declined ... but my vet was able to make a much better judgment call and now we have a dog in recovery who will be hopefully in good form when my dad eventually gets out of hospital.

Aru

Pyometras are difficult to treat with ab's. Very few recover fully with this as the treatment.

The operation is always the best thing for them but they have to be stable enough to undergo anaesthetic in order to pull through the op.Stabilisation usually involves antibiotics and an Iv drip to boost them and then the operation is the gold standard to treatment.

However if your mother declined the operation then you cannot give out about the dog not being fully recovered,the op was offered and the risks stated i'm afraid.So they did offer the option.
At this stage I'd be glad she did decline(would hate to imagine the surgery cost if this is the medical bill) and that you then had the option of your own vet!

I ment to say earlier.. glad to here your little dog came out of it ok!

Maphisto

Aru wrote: »

Pyometras are difficult to treat with ab's. Very few recover fully with this as the treatment.

The operation is always the best thing for them but they have to be stable enough to undergo anaesthetic in order to pull through the op.Stabilisation usually involves antibiotics and an Iv drip to boost them and then the operation is the gold standard to treatment.

However if your mother declined the operation then you cannot give out about the dog not being fully recovered,the op was offered and the risks stated i'm afraid.So they did offer the option.
At this stage I'd be glad she did decline(would hate to imagine the surgery cost if this is the medical bill) and that you then had the option of your own vet!

I ment to say earlier.. glad to here your little dog came out of it ok!

She's an elderly person (no offence OP) and most vets worth their salt can steer the option to whichever one they fancy the most.

Our current vet is brilliant both with our Collie/Lab and Chickens and Ducks but I've heard plenty of stories about other vets, providing long term treatment to animals that should have been pts; and costly but inappropriate treatments.

I'm not having a pop at vets they're human like everyone else. A few are absolutely grand fellas, the majority are OK, and then a few are in the wrong job.

Good luck OP

cocker5

whippet wrote: »

My mam has the full breakdown on the invoice, from what I can remember it lists:

1x Initial Consultation
1x Drip
1x X-Ray
1x Sedation for x-ray
3x X-Ray
1x Antibiotics
1x Health Check
1x Clinic Stay
1x Antibiotics (to take home)

The total of all this amounted to €527 (and the dog was still sick coming home)

My Vet charged €345 for 4 nights, Pyo Surgery, Antibiotics, Drip, pain killers and a weeks worth of recovery feed.

It just seems to be a case of a horrendously expensive Vet.

what about anaesthetics? these are expensive and most dogs require them before they are xrayed? maybe this makes up the rest of the cost?

In all fariness listing out what you can remember is not quiet the same thing of listing the bill exactly... not trying to be unkind but ist true... again without full list of exact costs there is no way too tell if these fees are inline or not.

anniehoo

cocker5 wrote: »

what about anaesthetics? these are expensive and most dogs require them before they are xrayed? maybe this makes up the rest of the cost?

It's sedation rather than full anaesthesia for x rays normally

cocker5

anniehoo wrote: »

It's sedation rather than full anaesthesia for x rays normally

ohh sorry my guy has to be fully knocked out before xrays he's very nervy in the vets :P

still its another area of the bill not included in the OP's list

Mr_Red

All Vets have different Charges

Guys and Girls - Please get yourselves pet insurance

cocker5

Mr_Red wrote: »

All Vets have different Charges

Guys and Girls - Please get yourselves pet insurance

I have pet insurance... allianz

it doesnt cover teeth cleaning, routine vaccinations etc

have an excess of €100 per claim plus i have to pay 30% of the cost as my dog is over 7... so without or without insurance its expensive

whippet

cocker5 wrote: »

ohh sorry my guy has to be fully knocked out before xrays he's very nervy in the vets :P

still its another area of the bill not included in the OP's list

the sedation was for the x-ray

I trust my Vet and my family have trusted him for decades, it is just unfortunate that my mam panicked and dropped him up there.

My Vet made a call on doing the surgery and it looks like it was the right call ... there might only be a year or two left in the little girl but it will a very important couple of years. My dad is in rehab at the moment and his dogs mean everything to him. He was carted off in an ambulance and one of his biggest worries is that this dog thinks he has just up and left her !!! When he is ready to come home I know it will help him immensely to have her there.

whippet

Aru wrote: »

However if your mother declined the operation then you cannot give out about the dog not being fully recovered,the op was offered and the risks stated i'm afraid.So they did offer the option.
At this stage I'd be glad she did decline(would hate to imagine the surgery cost if this is the medical bill) and that you then had the option of your own vet!

I ment to say earlier.. glad to here your little dog came out of it ok!

I agree with you here, but from what my mother is telling me she declined the surgery based on the vet telling her that she wouldn't recover and also the additional cost. My mam just hasn't the money at the moment (even though myself and my siblings keep telling her that we can look after things).

I suppose a good Vet is just like a good mechanic .. if you find one, keep them !!

whippet

Mr_Red wrote: »

All Vets have different Charges

Guys and Girls - Please get yourselves pet insurance

I have insurance on my own fella .. never had to use it fortunately. My old folk are a little too old school for that!!

OldNotWIse

whippet wrote: »

maybe or maybe not ... it was obvious I wasn't the first person who was complaining about the other vet to him.

Anyway; I have left a couple of messages for the vet this morning and still have heard nothing back. I will leave it until lunch time tomorrow morning before I ensure that word spreads quickly around the locality.

How? If he just said he would prefer not to comment? I would take that as him (rightly) maintaining a professional stance and not backstabbing others in his field. I would be wary of a vet who jumped at an opprtunity to berate another tbh, unless it was a competence issue and the animal could be put at risk.

Re spreading word around the locality, of course the vet can't stop you doing this but again, how many people will take you seriously? A disgruntled customer saying bad things about a business?

Vet fees can vary enormously depending on what needs to be done, specialist areas etc. I paid €1200 for a procedure for my beloved (departed) dog because the one we brought her to is the best in the country. Similarly, we took a cat to him after his leg was shattered as our own vet (not having the surgical expertise required for fixing it) could only offer amputation. But I wouldnt dream of going to this guy for routine stuff like vaccs etc because there is no justification for paying a lot for these.

whippet

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How? If he just said he would prefer not to comment? I would take that as him (rightly) maintaining a professional stance and not backstabbing others in his field. I would be wary of a vet who jumped at an opprtunity to berate another tbh, unless it was a competence issue and the animal could be put at risk.

body language can tell a lot more plus I have a good relationship with this guy.

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Re spreading word around the locality, of course the vet can't stop you doing this but again, how many people will take you seriously? A disgruntled customer saying bad things about a business?

Plenty of people will take me seriously .. why wouldn't they? I have owned dogs for years, as has my parents, some of my family are involved in the equine business and I know plenty of dog owners etc .... the facts are in black and white in two invoices.

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Vet fees can vary enormously depending on what needs to be done, specialist areas etc. I paid €1200 for a procedure for my beloved (departed) dog because the one we brought her to is the best in the country. Similarly, we took a cat to him after his leg was shattered as our own vet (not having the surgical expertise required for fixing it) could only offer amputation. But I wouldnt dream of going to this guy for routine stuff like vaccs etc because there is no justification for paying a lot for these.

I know that there will be different price for different vets .. as well as different levels of competence.

However, this seemed like a routine procedure and one Vet managed to charge a huge amount with no surgery while the other managed to perform the surgery and provide the level of care at a fraction of the price.

Aru

whippet wrote: »

I know that there will be different price for different vets .. as well as different levels of competence.
However, this seemed like a routine procedure and one Vet managed to charge a huge amount with no surgery while the other managed to perform the surgery and provide the level of care at a fraction of the price.

I agree with this.

TBH the cost of the first bill is astronomical.

I was expecting to see things like blood work and ultrasound in the work up as well the xrays in a bill of that magnitude..and even then I would have thought it a bit pricy..


myself an another poster have tried to work out the exact breakdown on other posts and we still cant quite figure it out...

OldNotWIse

whippet wrote: »

body language can tell a lot more plus I have a good relationship with this guy.



Plenty of people will take me seriously .. why wouldn't they? I have owned dogs for years, as has my parents, some of my family are involved in the equine business and I know plenty of dog owners etc .... the facts are in black and white in two invoices.



I know that there will be different price for different vets .. as well as different levels of competence.

However, this seemed like a routine procedure and one Vet managed to charge a huge amount with no surgery while the other managed to perform the surgery and provide the level of care at a fraction of the price.

How is that even relevant? Is he a large animal vet too?

jimf

1 of my bitches developed pyo last oct with complication of bleeding after surgery so had 2 ops in 48 hours 3 nights in vets in total

total bill 330.00 eu

whippet

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How is that even relevant? Is he a large animal vet too?

actually it would be part of his practice ..

OldNotWIse

whippet wrote: »

actually it would be part of his practice ..

Well, I'm sure you'll show him

Lizard_Moon

OP
I hope your mothers dog is doing well now.

I am sorry you feel you had a bad service from your first vets. One thing I will say is that your dog would may have been in better shape for surgery after the initial vets treatment.

Unlike what some people said we can medically manage Pyometra, using specific drugs I cannot list, and along with antibiotics and fluids. Neutering can be then carried out at a later date when the dog is stable.

I estimated the bill above using our prices and whilst I couldn't reach 500 maybe blood tests, ultrasound, and the Pyometra drug treatment regime etc were left off the rough bill??

Speak to the first vet again, get a complete cost breakdown, including drug names ( don't post them though) and maybe they can explain it.

As vets we really cannot comment upon another vets treatment as we are not looking at the dog that was presented on day one, before any treatment.

Please feel free to PM if you have any queries

LM