Violence before Armagh Cavan game

KevIRL

Havent seen any TV coverage of this yet, assume the Sunday Game will cover it, perhaps some of those at the game can elaborate on what happened.

RTE have a report here

This picture shows it happening right in front of a very young band member


Shocking stuff overall and doesnt say a lot for the GAA 'Respect' campaign they are teaching to youngsters unless some serious action is taken

KevIRL

On a related note, in Thurles today things got a bit heated on the pitch right before half time, a lot of pushing and jostling and one Waterford player on the ground. Half time whistle sounded right after it and in what was some fantastic management Jimmy Barry Murphy stopped all the Cork players from going down the tunnel and let the Waterford team go first, thereby avoiding the potential for any tunnel shennanigans. Hats off to him, classy stuff

tayto lover

People seem to think that the Armagh lads ambushed Cavan's martin Dunne. He couldn't play afterwards and had his arm in a sling. Yet as usual the referee saw nothing. No cards issued for anyone in this brawl it seems.

bruschi

KevIRL wrote: »

On a related note, in Thurles today things got a bit heated on the pitch right before half time, a lot of pushing and jostling and one Waterford player on the ground. Half time whistle sounded right after it and in what was some fantastic management Jimmy Barry Murphy stopped all the Cork players from going down the tunnel and let the Waterford team go first, thereby avoiding the potential for any tunnel shennanigans. Hats off to him, classy stuff

That's supposed to happen in every game, one team is pre determined to enter the tunnel first. Been that way for a while now.

KevIRL

bruschi wrote: »

That's supposed to happen in every game, one team is pre determined to enter the tunnel first. Been that way for a while now.

Ya but he made sure it did happen, fellas were goin to be going down the tunnel at the same time, was right in front of where I was sitting. But for JBM there was a very good chance a regrettable incident wold have happened

Cosmo Kramer

KevIRL wrote: »

Havent seen any TV coverage of this yet, assume the Sunday Game will cover it, perhaps some of those at the game can elaborate on what happened.

RTE have a report here

This picture shows it happening right in front of a very young band member


Shocking stuff overall and doesnt say a lot for the GAA 'Respect' campaign they are teaching to youngsters unless some serious action is taken

That picture with the kid looking on just doesn't look good at all. Could be a few suspensions for both teams during the week.

Motivator

KevIRL wrote: »

Ya but he made sure it did happen, fellas were goin to be going down the tunnel at the same time, was right in front of where I was sitting. But for JBM there was a very good chance a regrettable incident wold have happened

JBM didn't cover himself in glory in the minutes before half time. Austin Gleeson clearly in distress on the ground after getting a sly blow from a Cork player & JBM giving out saying he was timewasting.

fred funk }{

Don't think our friends over in Sky would like that sort of shenanigans.

Kermit.de.frog

Oh I think they will like it very much.

Disgusting behaviour though.

Tom Joad

Happened right in front of me. McKeever was first over to line up behind the plan for the parade and stood behind the Cavan flag which was nearest the stand. It was pretty obvious that he was making a point ala Mayo and the hill v Dublin a few years back. McKeever tried to get the girl holding the Cavan flag to swap sides but she didn't. Martin Dunne and a few other Cavan players tried to take their places behind the Cavan flag and it all kicked off. Really ugly stuff after that and the band members had to run for cover. Couldn't see what happened after that as it was a full scale brawl but Martin Dunne didn't start for Cavan because of what happened.

I know the mind game stuff has become a huge part of the game and once McKeever took the stand he did neither Cavan or Armagh could be seen to back down. It wasn't a nice thing to happen in front of kids and was really unnecessary stuff.

Pawwed Rig

embarrassing stuff. Not uncommon over the years though and very litlle being done to clean things up.

Gavlor

Tom Joad wrote: »

Happened right in front of me. McKeever was first over to line up behind the plan for the parade and stood behind the Cavan flag which was nearest the stand. It was pretty obvious that he was making a point ala Mayo and the hill v Dublin a few years back. McKeever tried to get the girl holding the Cavan flag to swap sides but she didn't. Martin Dunne and a few other Cavan players tried to take their places behind the Cavan flag and it all kicked off. Really ugly stuff after that and the band members had to run for cover. Couldn't see what happened after that as it was a full scale brawl but Martin Dunne didn't start for Cavan because of what happened.

I know the mind game stuff has become a huge part of the game and once McKeever took the stand he did neither Cavan or Armagh could be seen to back down. It wasn't a nice thing to happen in front of kids and was really unnecessary stuff.

Just caught a snippet on the news. Was that you that threw the sneaky punch from the stand??!

Shocking stuff though, particularly bad form during the parade

Redsoxfan

Genuine question here - is it protocol, tradition, regulation whatever that the home team should parade on the near side to the stands?

Tom Joad

Gavlor wrote: »

Just caught a snippet on the news. Was that you that threw the sneaky punch from the stand??!

Shocking stuff though, particularly bad form during the parade

Not guilty honestly. It did happen right in front of me but didn't see the digs - will reserve judgement until i see it on Sunday game. Martin Dunne though I believe has a broken arm because of it!

Mr.Crinklewood

Hope the thug of a supporter who tried to throw a punch gets punished as well.

Boom__Boom

Feck em both out of the Championship I say.

Instead the GAA will suspend 1 or 2 lads from either side and you guarantee the same nonsense will happen again in the future.

keith16

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Feck em both out of the Championship I say.

Instead the GAA will suspend 1 or 2 lads from either side and you guarantee the same nonsense will happen again in the future.

Have they even showed it on the Sunday game yet? Should have been on first.

Amprodude

All for what? Its not as if these two teams are going to win the All Ireland any time soon and the scenes that happened today were disgraceful.

naughto

Tom Joad wrote: »

Happened right in front of me. McKeever was first over to line up behind the plan for the parade and stood behind the Cavan flag which was nearest the stand. It was pretty obvious that he was making a point ala Mayo and the hill v Dublin a few years back. McKeever tried to get the girl holding the Cavan flag to swap sides but she didn't. Martin Dunne and a few other Cavan players tried to take their places behind the Cavan flag and it all kicked off. Really ugly stuff after that and the band members had to run for cover. Couldn't see what happened after that as it was a full scale brawl but Martin Dunne didn't start for Cavan because of what happened.

I know the mind game stuff has become a huge part of the game and once McKeever took the stand he did neither Cavan or Armagh could be seen to back down. It wasn't a nice thing to happen in front of kids and was really unnecessary stuff.

McKeever has to get a ban so if he was the one that started the hole thing.what was he trying to achieve

stuba

Throw both teams out of the championship this year. That's the only way you will stop it, it's ruining the reputation of the game.

DARK-KNIGHT

Im surprised at both teams tbh. Disgusting behaviour

Tom Joad

naughto wrote: »

McKeever has to get a ban so if he was the one that started the hole thing.what was he trying to achieve

Firstly as a Cavan man I'm biased so hold off judgement until you see it on Sunday game.

My view of what led to the meleee - I was watching Armagh warm up to see the interaction between Grimley and McGeeney as I find it fascinating that McGeeney is now no 2 to Grimley and must be manager in waiting. I noticed McGeeney and McKeever were having a long chat beforehand. I think McGeeney and McKeveer were trying to out psyche or win some sort of mind game with Cavan to get an edge and that is why McKeever lined up behind the Cavan flag held by the girl in the band.

What happened next should become clear when the Sunday game show it.

Tom Joad

I was at the game and it happened in front of me and I didn't see what happened in the melee so how can people ask for the teams to be thrown out . As far as I'm aware it wasn't on telly so on what basis are people asking for both teams to be thrown out

homerjay2005

not really bothered by the melee, but what really bugs me is the fact that Cavan had to line up without their best player in Martin Dunne.

that needs to be investigated along with the entire thing.

Lemlin

Tom Joad wrote: »

Firstly as a Cavan man I'm biased so hold off judgement until you see it on Sunday game.

My view of what led to the meleee - I was watching Armagh warm up to see the interaction between Grimley and McGeeney as I find it fascinating that McGeeney is now no 2 to Grimley and must be manager in waiting. I noticed McGeeney and McKeever were having a long chat beforehand. I think McGeeney and McKeveer were trying to out psyche or win some sort of mind game with Cavan to get an edge and that is why McKeever lined up behind the Cavan flag held by the girl in the band.

What happened next should become clear when the Sunday game show it.

Surprised nobody has brought up the previous between these two teams. In 2004 McGeeney would have been involved when the Armagh lads busted through the Cavan huddle before throw-in. The game started with a tense atmosphere and Armagh got what they wanted when Pearse McKenna, Cavan's midfielder, floored Bellew less than a minute in.

That was all about mind games and it appears today was as well. Terry Hyland has come out and said the Cavan lads that got involved disrespected the jersey. Has anyone from Armagh said anything?

http://m.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/27757063

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not really bothered by the melee, but what really bugs me is the fact that Cavan had to line up without their best player in Martin Dunne.

that needs to be investigated along with the entire thing.

He was targeted and we could now be the rest of the championship without him. From what I'm hearing we definitely will be.

Boom__Boom

Tom Joad wrote: »

I was at the game and it happened in front of me and I didn't see what happened in the melee so how can people ask for the teams to be thrown out . As far as I'm aware it wasn't on telly so on what basis are people asking for both teams to be thrown out

There are a fair number of pictures on Twitter and it's clear that something did actually happen.

The reason I say throw the teams out is that they clearly didn't show due Respect for the opposition or the general public by their behaviour. Also I believe it would be effective. The chances of it happening again or something similar would be seriously reduced if teams knew that if they misbehave/act the maggot they could be fecked out of the Championship.

Basically I think this should be a case of collective responsibility - if one or two members of a team misbehave punish the entire team. The way the GAA currently deal with schemozzles is that only 1 or 2 lads on either side usually get punished so once it kicks off all bets are off and it pretty much gives license to the other 20 plus players/backroom members to wade in and throw pucks as long as it's not blatant. There's no incentive for players to wade in and stop their teammate who has lost the head.

Obviously once we see the footage (if we do) it might be the case that one side was the blatant agressor. If it was a case of lads simply defending themselves its a different kettle of fish, but I really don't see why it would be necessary to throw digs to defend oneself.

Tom Joad

Lemlin wrote: »

Surprised nobody has brought up the previous between these two teams. In 2004 McGeeney would have been involved when the Armagh lads busted through the Cavan huddle before throw-in. The game started with a tense atmosphere and Armagh got what they wanted when Pearse McKenna, Cavan's midfielder, floored Bellew less than a minute in.

That was all about mind games and it appears today was as well. Terry Hyland has come out and said the Cavan lads that got involved disrespected the jersey. Has anyone from Armagh said anything?

http://m.bbc.com/sport/gaelic-games/27757063


He was targeted and we could now be the rest of the championship without him. From what I'm hearing we definitely will be.

Grimley's comments are laughable - it was clearly planned. However if the rumours are true that a Cavan player kicked McKeever when he was on the ground i'll be the first to ask for a long ban for him no matter who he is.

tayto lover

RTE making sure we won't see too much.
As usual they are going to skirt around the issues in Armagh.
The Ulster game on last again.
Thank God the BBC will have next week's game.

Hitchens

you'd never get that in hurling

Boom__Boom

Some footage here.

Not great quality

http://balls.ie/gaa/the-first-cavan-armagh-fight-video-emerges/

Edit : Cameraperson on the roof of the stand. Will be interesting to see what sort of other footage comes out.

Tom Joad

Boom__Boom wrote: »

There are a fair number of pictures on Twitter and it's clear that something did actually happen.

The reason I say throw the teams out is that they clearly didn't show due Respect for the opposition or the general public by their behaviour. Also I believe it would be effective. The chances of it happening again or something similar would be seriously reduced if teams knew that if they misbehave/act the maggot they could be fecked out of the Championship.

Basically I think this should be a case of collective responsibility - if one or two members of a team misbehave punish the entire team. The way the GAA currently deal with schemozzles is that only 1 or 2 lads on either side usually get punished so once it kicks off all bets are off and it pretty much gives license to the other 20 plus players/backroom members to wade in and throw pucks as long as it's not blatant. There's no incentive for players to wade in and stop their teammate who has lost the head.

Obviously once we see the footage (if we do) it might be the case that one side was the blatant agressor. If it was a case of lads simply defending themselves its a different kettle of fish, but I really don't see why it would be necessary to throw digs to defend oneself.

We all know something happened -something no-one should condone and yes action should be taken. I'm just bemused that so many can call for both teams to be thrown out of the championship not having seen what happened.

As a Cavan man I'm not happy that this happened and I believe it was premeditated. Of course it doesn't excuse anything any Cavan player done and they should be punished for that. But after the melee Cavan were allowed line up behind the Cavan flag but we started without the player who took Armagh apart last year.

Grimley's comments are not helpful - at least Terry Hyland has accepted what happened is wrong.

tayto lover

Tom Joad wrote: »

Grimley's comments are laughable - it was clearly planned. However if the rumours are true that a Cavan player kicked McKeever when he was on the ground i'll be the first to ask for a long ban for him no matter who he is.

What has Grimley to say? Can't find any link.

copacetic

tayto lover wrote: »

RTE making sure we won't see too much.
As usual they are going to skirt around the issues in Armagh.
The Ulster game on last again.
Thank God the BBC will have next week's game.

It's one of the the smallest games in a very busy weekend you hardly move it up to top billing because of a stupid scrap and the fight was featured at reasonable length on the 9 O'Clock news and the report was promoted on twitter in advance so it certainly wasted skirted around? They also said on the news to see more coverage of it on the Sunday Game.

Since they know loads of people are waiting to see it also of course it ends up toward the end!

Tom Joad

tayto lover wrote: »

What has Grimley to say? Can't find any link.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/gaelic-games/27754620

However, Armagh manager Paul Grimley claimed the incidents were "nothing really serious" and denied that his players had "crossed a line".

Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.



"Whenever you get 15 boys hyped up and they are training so hard and the tempo and the aggro is there, the adrenaline is flowing, you are going to get wee tiffs like that. But that's all it was," Grimley told BBC Sport Northern Ireland.
Asked about the possibility that suspensions could be imposed on his squad following Sunday's pre-match incidents, Grimley replied::"We'll have to wait and see what happens but from what I saw, there were 30 players involved in it. Are they going to suspend them all?
"I wouldn't make a bigger thing than it actually is. It was dusted off off. That was it."
Grimley said he was "unaware" of the suggestion that the brawl had started after Armagh stood behind the Cavan flag during the pre-match parade.
"If that did happen, it was a genuine mistake," added the Armagh

yop

I haven't seen it except for the video here, what was on the Sunday game there and reading what has been said on the news, my initial thought were if you had kids standing watching it and you had the band running for cover then without a doubt a full season ban needs to be handed out to both teams.
If lads want to get "physical" during the game then fair enough, but not when you have young people in the band in front of them and young kids, who generally sit or stand along the wire at the side of the pitch.
We have tried to clean the game up with the black card, we don't need this thuggish behavior

Grimley was embarrassing in that interview.

Boom__Boom

Tom Joad wrote: »

Grimley's comments are not helpful - at least Terry Hyland has accepted what happened is wrong.

I know I have a hell of a lot more respect for Hyland compared to Grimley after their comments.

Grimley saying "there were 30 players involved in it. Are they going to suspend them all?" pretty much proves my point that players/teams know they can act like this and get away with it.

copacetic

yop wrote: »

I haven't seen it except for the video here, what was on the Sunday game there and reading what has been said on the news, my initial thought were if you had kids standing watching it and you had the band running for cover then without a doubt a full season ban needs to be handed out to both teams.
If lads want to get "physical" during the game then fair enough, but not when you have young people in the band in front of them and young kids, who generally sit or stand along the wire at the side of the pitch.
We have tried to clean the game up with the black card, we don't need this thuggish behavior

Grimley was embarrassing in that interview.

Actually hadn't seen the second bit where the line up again and again fight over where to line up and an Armagh player pushes a Cavan player into the back of the poor girl who is supposed to carry the flag in front of them.

It's cowardly and dangerous. She had to be pulled away by another band member for her safety. If you can't be safe on a GAA pitch before the game doing a simple honourable job then we have gone badly wrong somewhere.

ardmacha

Ciarán Whelan nailed it on the Sunday Game. The home team normally walks closest to the stand and get the flag carriers to switch around. Armagh were nearest the band and they headed for the stand side, leaving an easy and uncontroversial gap for Cavan to slot into the other side and switch the flags. Cavan then piled into the Armagh players.

Hitchens

what is it with flags in this gaff anyway?

tayto lover

Anyone see what happened to Dunne's arm? Apparently it's broken. Shocking behaviour.

Tom Joad

Lets just hope that this is investigated fully and punishment is handed out where it is deserved but based on the video footage that we have seen so far it's hard to see how that can happen. Hopefully there is other footage available to show the entire thing and what happened Martin Dunne.

Pdoghue

Really depressing to see the reaction from the panelists on the The Sunday Game. First of all O'Se and Whelan made a joke how they would never get involved in that kind of stuff. Then they said it was only silly stuff. Then finally O'Se says there was no footage of the injury and that there probably wouldn't be any suspensions. Typical ambivalence towards this kind of stuff.

Lemlin

ardmacha wrote: »

Ciarán Whelan nailed it on the Sunday Game. The home team normally walks closest to the stand and get the flag carriers to switch around. Armagh were nearest the band and they headed for the stand side, leaving an easy and uncontroversial gap for Cavan to slot into the other side and switch the flags. Cavan then piled into the Armagh players.

Why didn't McKeever ask the flag carrier to move then? He was first to line-up. I didn't see him say anything to the carrier.

He also attempted to continue to stand there after the initial row until Grimley told him to move.

tayto lover

Pdoghue wrote: »

Really depressing to see the reaction from the panelists on the The Sunday Game. First of all O'Se and Whelan made a joke how they would never get involved in that kind of stuff. Then they said it was only silly stuff. Then finally O'Se says there was no footage of the injury and that there probably wouldn't be any suspensions. Typical ambivalence towards this kind of stuff.

That's exactly what I expected and probably why they kept it until the last 3 minutes. See no evil etc.

homerjay2005

Pdoghue wrote: »

Really depressing to see the reaction from the panelists on the The Sunday Game. First of all O'Se and Whelan made a joke how they would never get involved in that kind of stuff. Then they said it was only silly stuff. Then finally O'Se says there was no footage of the injury and that there probably wouldn't be any suspensions. Typical ambivalence towards this kind of stuff.

to be honest, it is being made out to be alot worse that it actually was. im sure a few digs were given, but the majority of it was just handbags.

TCDStudent1

Lemlin wrote: »

Why didn't McKeever ask the flag carrier to move then? He was first to line-up. I didn't see him say anything to the carrier.

He also attempted to continue to stand there after the initial row until Grimley told him to move.

An earlier post from Tom Joad who was at the match says McKeever did try to get the flag carrier to move but she wouldnt.

Lets blame her and absolve Armagh & Cavan! :-)

Davys Fits

It doesn't matter what the panellist or managers say. A similar incident happened in Thurles back in 2007 between Clare and Cork known as 'semplegate'. Likewise they tried to make out it was handbag stuff etc etc. Gaa gave 7 Players a months suspension and rightly so and same should happen here.

tayto lover

homerjay2005 wrote: »

to be honest, it is being made out to be alot worse that it actually was. im sure a few digs were given, but the majority of it was just handbags.

Ah ha not enough blood for you then. A player received a broken arm.

squadro

no effort to take this crap out of the gaa. no more gaa for the kids anymore. they are happy to play other sports that promote teamwork and respect for others.

frostyjacks

I think some people need to take off the rose tinted spectacles. This is championship football, and last year Cavan gave Armagh a real roasting, Grimley was torn to shreds after that encounter. So I wasn't totally surprised to see Armagh make a stand today. It was a pity about Dunne getting injured from it, that was the only negative. I'd much rather see two teams tear strips out of each other than some of the sanitised football we've had so far.

Bullettooth

Sky thought it was wwe