** 2014 LC French - all levels - discussion, predictions, practice your French **

Flickka

Andrewmcmahon wrote: »

anyone else say (b) for the first multi-choice? I was going to say (d) but they never actually said that there was traffic problem.

I did too but it's definitely (d) They said that they had to move the tent to let cars past but I didn't interpret that as cars having trouble driving around the village - because they moved! I just chose (b) then as a process of elimination as I didn't know what debout meant... Ah well.

Was it just me or was there way more manipulation required in those french comprehensions than past years? A lot less of just quoting directly from the text...

linguist

Ok all, here we go with a few preliminaries.

I've been interested to read the positive reaction to this paper, largely driven probably by a manageable written section. In reality, I regard the reading section to be one of the most challenging in recent years requiring significant manipulation, detailed reading of the text and presenting real difficulties in judging the exact amount of information required at times.

Reading Comprehension

Q1

1. (i) Il pleut
(ii) Il y a souvent juste 30 personnes (dans la tente/aux spectacles/aux représentations)

2. (i) aucun employé (but does anyone think 'une histoire de famille' might just make the cut??)
(ii) elle maitise mieux l'écriture qu'Alexis

3 (i) propre
(ii) D

4. (i) Ni lion, ni tigre, ni éléphant.
(ii) Il ne les frappe pas.

5. (i) Il a déposé les affichettes du cirque au bord de la route.
(ii) Les cousins ne sont pas/plus la OR Il faut/faudra tout faire a trois.

6. Various answers - not trying to be lazy but if anyone's genuinely unsure shoot me back what you think you wrote and I'll give you my view. OK?

Q2.

1. (i) Georges se montrait de plus en plus intolérant (avec elles??)
(ii) Il les critiquait/Il déplorait leur manque de culture.

2. (i) (d')aller a la grande fete (organisée a Chaville par leurs cousins)
(ii) Pendant le diner Lisbeth et Sophie s'efforcerent de répondre aimablement aux questions qu'on leur posait.

3. (i) parce que/puisque/car elles avaient disparu de si bonne heure.
(ii) moins d'un quart d'heure

4. (i) C
(ii) (Comme) Lisbeth revait de voyages et de contrées lointaines

5. (i) Elles firent semblant de partir pour le lycée.
(ii) s'enfuir

6. Again, various possibilities. Clearly Georges is the more strict of the two and he is the one whose emotions are visible and who the girls appear quite afraid of. Marthe tries to calm him down, but in vain. However, she never actively goes against him and it is she who enters the party to look for the girls while Georges stays in the car. So you could have agreed or disagreed.

Listening Comprehension

Section 1

1. Sabine

Her mobile battery was dead/empty.

2. Ahmed

(i) He had to pay a supplement because his baggage was too heavy.
(ii) He had to wait four hours because his plane was delayed.

3. Fleur

They weren't on the right train.

Section II

1. 25 years ago

2. (a) watch the sunrise over the sea
(b) go fishing on/by a/the lake/Lough Corrib

3. (i) during the holidays he's the laziest man in the world
(ii) the water is too cold

4. (a) produce/make/record a new album for children
(b) go out picking mushrooms in the woods

Section III

1. (i) his French teacher
(ii) he took drama classes at university

2. (a) a story about a criminal gang
(b) the action takes place at the beginning of the last century

3. (i) It's the first time he'll be on stage
(ii) his sister is returning from the US and she's promised to pick her up in Toulouse.

Section IV

Alain

1. (i) waiter in a restaurant
(ii) the price of petrol

2. politicians who do nothing

Carole

3 (i) not too affected by the recession
(ii) ask for help from charities in the town

4. (a) two stopped working last year
(b) another is still working at the age of 92

Section V

1. flooding

2. (i) €30,000

(ii) in the bin of the café

3. He was driving a tractor on the motorway near Calais.

Please remember, these are suggested full mark answers. The marking scheme will break down into various full and partial mark answers.

That's it. I'm here for your comments, questions, feedback you name it. Just be nice!

a0ifee

I think this exam went okay, I liked the written sections

But a quick question! I wasn't sure what a verbe pronominal was so I wrote both "y" and "s'enfuir" but my teacher says I'll get no marks because my wrong answer will cancel out my right one?

linguist

The standard approach is that any extraneous element in the grammar question scores 0. Sorry to say that to you.

a0ifee

linguist wrote: »

The standard approach is that any extraneous element in the grammar question scores 0. Sorry to say that to you.

the french marking scheme is my enemy

FHB

For the one about the dangerous animals, would "Rien de tres exotique" get anything do you think? I was trying to decide between that and the "ni lions etc.." one but I thought the other one was too specific. Like, there are other dangerous animals besides those three types, if you get what I mean.

For 5(i) of the first reading comprehension, could you say "Il a mis les affichettes" instead of déposé?

Also, for section IV of the listening, would that fact that it's 60 kilometres away be enough for 1(ii) do you think?

Thanks for putting up your suggested answers anyway!

linguist

Hi and all good questions!

I looked at rien de tres exotique with my own students and we agreed that exotic does not mean ferocious. Then again, are elephants really any more ferocious than cows - both can stamp on you but they generally don't. You might get lucky.

Definitely, any verb that conveys the meaning of déposé will be fine so il a mis/il a placé/il a monté...(not il est monté - different meaning).

In the listening, the causal link in the sentence was very clear as regards the price of petrol. I can see people arguing over that at the conference and if large numbers of people say it (60 kms), it could well make it.

robman60

linguist wrote: »

4(ii) (Comme) Lisbeth revait de voyages et de contrées lointaines

Should this not be "Partir ne lui fait peur" or whatever the exact quote was?

I had two mistakes in the listening by the looks of things, didn't know the sunrise one and just confused myself on the one about the setting at the end of the last century >_>

linguist

No Robman, on this one I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. The question is: Relevez l'expression qui explique pourquoi la soeur cadette n'avait pas crainte de s'en aller.

So you're asked to explain why the younger sister wasn't afraid of leaving. Your answer would appear to restate her lack of fear whereas the first part of the sentence - which satisfies the criteria for une expression - gives the reason why. That's my view. Obviously, none of this is set in stone for the moment.

FHB

Well I'd be happy even with just partial marks for rien de tres exotique. Fingers crossed.

I think for the one about getting help from charities I said "Ask for help from authoritative institutions in the town" because I thought it sounded like they said authoritative, but I don't think an authoritative institution is even a thing.

But thanks anyway!

HelenAnn

linguist wrote: »

That's it. I'm here for your comments, questions, feedback you name it. Just be nice!

Thanks a million for posting all that stuff up! I'm really happy with how the French paper went today but I can't stop thinking back to my oral exam because I think I might have done something stupid but I don't know how many marks it would cost me ...

Do you by any chance know what the repercussions would be if when the examiner asked you a future tense question, you avoided using the future tense but still answered back in a way that made sense in the context and was gramatically correct (using the past or conditional or present or something else) ? I'm pretty sure I may have accidentally done this in my exam (not 100% certain but I also remember that the examiner asked me 2/3 future-orientated questions - she may have been trying to coax it out of me but for some reason no alarm bells rang for me at the time!) ...

I'm pretty worried about this because I know it says in the chief examiner's report that 'avoiding the future tense' is a common difficulty and I know you're supposed to go in expecting to be tested on the future tense (which I can use perfectly well by the way!) . I'm raging with myself because I have a pretty good level of French and I was aiming to get an A1.

But I also do German and I remember earlier on this year our German teacher playing sample oral exam candidate recordings to us and there was one girl who was obviously an excellent A-standard candidate but when she was asked her question in the past tense (which we're expected to be able to answer in) , something like 'did you go on holidays last year', she answered back 'Every year I go on holidays to ....' and went off on a spiel in the present tense. Our teacher pointed out this faux-pas to us and asked us to guess how well she scored in the exam but turns out she still did really well (I suppose because what she was saying was technically correct?)

I realise German is a totally different subject with a different marking scheme though ...

Could you in any way enlighten me how I might be marked for this? This has kind of been torturing me since April

linguist

FHB: It was 'organisations caritatives' so charities would be the obvious answer.

FHB

linguist wrote: »

FHB: It was 'organisations caritatives' so charities would be the obvious answer.

Ah right. Hopefully I'd get some partial marks anyway.

linguist

HelenAnn: As you'll probably recall, in your oral the examiner was sitting there without any obvious paper in front of him/her, not writing anything and hopefully looking at you and making you feel relaxed in your conversation.

As a result, it is not a nit picking exercise where the aim is to catch the candidate out. In normal speech, even in English, we form semantic units without obsessing over their precise structure. Your oral mark is based on an overall appreciation in which the examiner listens out to see (a) how accurate your overall pronunciation is, (b) how rich your vocabulary is, (c) how accurate and developed your use of structures (grammar) is and (d) the overall quality of your communication - how natural it is etc.

A and B are marked 0-20 and C and D are marked 0-30.

Thus, in structures, it is the examiner's job to mentally tick the range of tenses you use and your accuracy in using them. If you used future tense correctly and in any kind of sustained manner (i.e. future plans), that will have registered and you'll be fine. There is no way the examiner can remember every single word you said and it is not the aim to penalise a candidate over a momentary lapse which, frankly, most examiners would make too! Relax!!

robman60

FHB wrote: »

Ah right. Hopefully I'd get some partial marks anyway.

Just my opinion, but I don't see how you'd get any marks for "authorative institutions". It doesn't really mean anything, at least to my knowledge.

sarahkiely125

linguist wrote: »

<long post>

For the one about why she qwasn't afraid to leave. Could you have said the line after, that she taught it would be easy to live there? I can't remeber the exact phrasing!

linguist

@sarahkiely125: Take a bow! I think you may just have found an alternative answer. The word 'comme', here meaning 'since' in the previous sentence clearly establishes the link between her lack of fear and her dreams of travelling. However the sentence you're suggesting would appear to be merely an extension of her thinking based on Sophie's proposal. Now, you are asked for l'expression, so if this is to be accepted it would be:

"Elle pensait qu'il serait facile pour les deux filles de vivre a la campagne incognito" because at that point you hit a comma which your teacher should have told you is the end of the expression. After that, to the end, would probably be -1.

sarahkiely125

linguist wrote: »

@sarahkiely125: Take a bow! I think you may just have found an alternative answer. The word 'comme', here meaning 'since' in the previous sentence clearly establishes the link between her lack of fear and her dreams of travelling. However the sentence you're suggesting would appear to be merely an extension of her thinking based on Sophie's proposal. Now, you are asked for l'expression, so if this is to be accepted it would be:

"Elle pensait qu'il serait facile pour les deux filles de vivre a la campagne incognito" because at that point you hit a comma which your teacher should have told you is the end of the expession. After that, to the end, would probably be -1.

Yes I wrote that exact expression. Hopefully ill get the 5 marks. Thank you!

FHB

robman60 wrote: »

Just my opinion, but I don't see how you'd get any marks for "authorative institutions". It doesn't really mean anything, at least to my knowledge.

Well it's possible that they'd give marks for saying "Ask for help from institutions in the town" or even "Ask for help"(Even if just 1 mark) so it's possible that they could overlook that word.

I'm just being hopeful here anyway. I don't know how the examiners do their job.

linguist

FHB: Very few questions in the listening are ever 3 or 0 - could you imagine the carnage if they were?!

So yes, I could imagine a scheme saying:

- Ask for help from charities/charitable organisations in the town (3 marks)
- Ask for help from charities/charitable organisations (2 marks)
- Ask for help from organisations in the town (2 marks)
- Ask for help (1 mark)

The question then is whether your wording is too vague and please don't lose sleep over this tonight!!

HelenAnn

linguist wrote: »

HelenAnn: As you'll probably recall, in your oral the examiner was sitting there without any obvious paper in front of him/her, not writing anything and hopefully looking at you and making you feel relaxed in your conversation.

As a result, it is not a nit picking exercise where the aim is to catch the candidate out. In normal speech, even in English, we form semantic units without obsessing over their precise structure. Your oral mark is based on an overall appreciation in which the examiner listens out to see (a) how accurate your overall pronunciation is, (b) how rich your vocabulary is, (c) how accurate and developed your use of structures (grammar) is and (d) the overall quality of your communication - how natural it is etc.

Thus, in structures, it is the examiner's job to mentally tick the range of tenses you use and
A and B are marked 0-20 and C and D are marked 0-30.
your accuracy in using them. If you used future tense correctly and in any kind of sustained manner (i.e. future plans), that will have registered and you'll be fine. There is no way the examiner can remember every single word you said and it is not the aim to penalise a candidate over a momentary lapse which, frankly, most examiners would make too! Relax!!

Thanks! I'm comforted by the fact that the marking seems to be about the overall impression, raither than ''nit-picking''!

Unfortunately though I think I may have actually possibly avoided the future tense completely (somehow... even though I know that sounds pretty impossible!), as in not uttered a single verb in the future tense! Would it just be down to be examiner's own discretion whether she'd let me off on it? For example when she asked me 'do you have any plans for the summer', I think I said something along the lines of 'I haven't anything planned yet but I would like to ...' and started using the conditional tense or something else (I can't really remember). I know I'm probably really over-thinking it but it's just that if she was waiting to tick the future tense off on a mental list, it might never have happened and that's probably pretty bad since its one of the basic things you're supposed to use ...!

Sorry for my ramblings! In any case, I'll take your advice and not try not worry about it, because I think overall it went very well.

linguist

HelenAnn: I really can't answer because you are almost certainly underestimating yourself. 'I would like' is, of course, 'je voudrais' so there's a conditional anyway!!

FHB

Yeah, I don't know why I'm posting so much in this thread. I usually hate post-morteming my exams. I don't know what's gotten into me. :P

I need to get off this website for a bit(Or a few weeks)

Thanks for taking your time to do this anyway linguist. You seem like you're a really good, dedicated teacher.

HelenAnn

linguist wrote: »

HelenAnn: I really can't answer because you are almost certainly underestimating yourself. 'I would like' is, of course, 'je voudrais' so there's a conditional anyway!!

Yeah, I know that. At least I got that in anyway! :P
I'm saying I think I used conditional tense and possibly other fancy-ish structures but I think I avoided using any actual future tense verbs eg. 'j'irai' or 'je serai' entirely!

oswinoswald

Thank you for posting this!!

mec1

You have 4 pieces written so they normally correct all 4 and choose your best 3. First of all you did the obligatory question 1. Then you did one each from q2, q3 & q4. These will be corrected and the best ones chosen. Examiners understand that mistakes like this can be made. You won't be penalised.

TreacyHolmes95

In the listening comp it you wrote an answer and put a line through it and then wrote something different, would they take the answer you wrote first even though it's crossed out?? I know it's prob a long shot but I live in hope...

linguist

No, a crossed out answer is only accepted if you've written nothing else. Otherwise, the non-cancelled answer is accepted.

aoifeflynn_

thanks very much for your help!

mec1 wrote: »

You have 4 pieces written so they normally correct all 4 and choose your best 3. First of all you did the obligatory question 1. Then you did one each from q2, q3 & q4. These will be corrected and the best ones chosen. Examiners understand that mistakes like this can be made. You won't be penalised.

foxymm

scallway wrote: »

For 4ii) it asks why she's not afraid so shouldn't it be: 'lisbeth rêvait de voyages et de contrées lontaines' ??

Oui tout à fait! Je viens de relire la question et vous avez bien raison. Je n'ai pas bien lu la question
La réponse correcte est bel et bien "Lisabeth rêvait de voyages et de contrées lointaines". Je m'excuse.