Topping

AnFeirmeoir

I notice all the talk in papers this year is about not topping as it's a waste of grass

Before.now topping seemed to be pushed as positive thing that improves grass quality

Advice seems to change year on year

Milked out

It is a tool to manage quality, however in order to maximise grass use the better way would be to skip the paddock which is too strong, bale straight away, and the grass would be back nearly as fast as topping with no residual on the paddock, with the advantage of a few bales made. Obviously growth, weather, too many poor performing paddocks, etc may prevent one from skipping it and strip grazing and then topping would be the solution to getting quality back on track

grazeaway

It all really depends on your circumstances. I haven't topped in about 3 years but may do some this year. Over the last few years i have taken out strong paddocks for silage.

If you have your own silage gear, mower, baler and wrapper then It's a no brainer tbh. The yield may be light but it's still gonna be good quality feed. The cost of getting a contractor for small amounts may not be feasible but if you can let the grass thicken up a bit then the yeild would be enough to justify it. Having your own mower is very useful in this situation as you can mow your self weather it's light or heavy. Most contractors charge per acre to mow but by the bale for baling and wrapping.

The down side of topping is when there is too much cuttings left on the grass then it can just cover the new grass. Ideally topping should be done when the grass has been bared down as much as possible by the cattle but here are some heavy clamps and areas of strong grass. Then the topper will even out the growth and spread the toppings so as not to stifle the emerging grass.

If the grass is too thick at the root the taking it out for bales is a much better option.

whelan2

i use a topper, mainly for paddocks that are not mowable, get bales done on the mowable ones. The cows are not grazing out well here this year so we are topping at the moment. Spoke with a neighbour yesterday and he said this is the first year he needs a topper,

_Brian

We top as our scale would make baling strong grass uneconomical.
We continue to keep dedicated silage ground which is open to grazing after the silage is saved.

As Whelan said, paddocks not capable of baling will need topping.
Grazing them out has reduced it here but were still learning grass utilisation.
I can't see the topping ever being a thing of the past.

rangler1

grazeaway wrote: »

It all really depends on your circumstances. I haven't topped in about 3 years but may do some this year. Over the last few years i have taken out strong paddocks for silage.

If you have your own silage gear, mower, baler and wrapper then It's a no brainer tbh. The yield may be light but it's still gonna be good quality feed. The cost of getting a contractor for small amounts may not be feasible but if you can let the grass thicken up a bit then the yeild would be enough to justify it. Having your own mower is very useful in this situation as you can mow your self weather it's light or heavy. Most contractors charge per acre to mow but by the bale for baling and wrapping.

The down side of topping is when there is too much cuttings left on the grass then it can just cover the new grass. Ideally topping should be done when the grass has been bared down as much as possible by the cattle but here are some heavy clamps and areas of strong grass. Then the topper will even out the growth and spread the toppings so as not to stifle the emerging grass.

If the grass is too thick at the root the taking it out for bales is a much better option.

Top and leave the animals on the field, 24 -36 hrs later it'll be gone, have topped some fairly heavy fields here this year and the sheep clean it off no problem...when I say top I mean mow at 5cms

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

Top and leave the animals on the field, 24 -36 hrs later it'll be gone, have topped some fairly heavy fields here this year and the sheep clean it off no problem...when I say top I mean mow at 5cms

as long as theres no ragworth in it, cattle eat ragworth when its dying as it becomes palatable

case 956

topping is essential to do to clean out dung pats, every paddock ere is topped or mowed at least once to keep fresh

Greengrass1

case 956 wrote: »

topping is essential to do to clean out dung pats, every paddock ere is topped or mowed at least once to keep fresh

I don't think you do. Up until this yr we were stocked hard up at 3.4 this yr only 2.14 and have had to top this year and rarely did it other yrs

case 956

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I don't think you do. Up until this yr we were stocked hard up at 3.4 this yr only 2.14 and have had to top this year and rarely did it other yrs

every one to there own of course but to me it essential to remove dung pats and weed control, not to manage grass surplus I bale that. but teagasc of course will disagree with me

agriman27

Last year I baled a lot of surplus grass from my grazing ground, only problem was the cattle wouldn't nearly eat the bales. Kinda opened my eyes to how crap my pasture grazing is. This year I'm just eating and topping but something will have to be done:(

Muckit

Grass growth exceeds demand at this time of year. Grass also goes into self preservation mode and forms seed heads. Quality deteriorates when this happens and cattle won't eat it, especially young cattle.

Cows and some heavy cattle will eat anything, but that doesn't mean they will thrive or produce as much milk as if they were on young leafy grass.

Therefore topping grass is essential this time of year. Whether your preference is to use a topper or mower, that's up to you. Both will do an equally good job if set up right.

As regards a topper, flails need to be keep right with a reasonably keen edge. If you hit a stone it will chip the flail and will need to be reground. A new set if flails.... (4)... ~€50. It may be well worth it if you've never changed them. You can't knock a machine if you as an operator don't have it set up right.

I have topped paddocks with abbey topper set at lowest setting. Anyone looking at them would not have a clue what machine topped them.

Robson99

Hate topping. Try to close my eyes when doing it and not look behind at the wasted grass. I consider topping to be poor grassland management by myself. But I still have some fields which need reseeding and by taking these out for bales the quality of the stuff wouldnt be great. Another couple of years when all is reseeded I will have that option

rangler1

Robson99 wrote: »

Hate topping. Try to close my eyes when doing it and not look behind at the wasted grass. I consider topping to be poor grassland management by myself. But I still have some fields which need reseeding and by taking these out for bales the quality of the stuff wouldnt be great. Another couple of years when all is reseeded I will have that option

Don't worry, wasting grass isn't as bad as wasting silage, seems a huge amount of surplus silage still stacked in fields after last year and the crops are heavier this year ( if they're cut that is), at least the nutrients are going back in to the ground

Muckit

Yes this is another factor with topping as opposed to taking paddocks out for silage. Nutrients are kept rather than removed. If you have enough silage, top away.

C4d78

Premowing is preferable to topping. Quicker recovery in re growths and less waste

allbuiz

Robson99 wrote: »

Hate topping. Try to close my eyes when doing it and not look behind at the wasted grass. I consider topping to be poor grassland management by myself. But I still have some fields which need reseeding and by taking these out for bales the quality of the stuff wouldnt be great. Another couple of years when all is reseeded I will have that option

I agree, I hate topping but with the way the way weather came they couldn't strip it therefore topping is a necessary evil.

Mulumpy

I have need for very little topping here. Im stocked at 5.1 at peak and 3.9 and shoulders. Very little surplus bales taken either.

rangler1

Mulumpy wrote: »

I have need for very little topping here. Im stocked at 5.1 at peak and 3.9 and shoulders. Very little surplus bales taken either.

Don't see the point in maximising stocking rate here, financial return doesn't justify it, sheep doesn't justify employing extra labour either, anyway topping is therapeutic

Robson99

Muckit wrote: »

Yes this is another factor with topping as opposed to taking paddocks out for silage. Nutrients are kept rather than removed. If you have enough silage, top away.

What Nutrients Muckit?? P&k??? Surley taking out surplus paddocks with light covers wouldnt remove much P&K

visatorro

Mulumpy wrote: »

I have need for very little topping here. Im stocked at 5.1 at peak and 3.9 and shoulders. Very little surplus bales taken either.

Same here. This year anyway. Am going over an odd paddock the clean out. My cows aren't loving the idea of cleaning out paddocks just yet. They better get used to it.

Mulumpy

visatorro wrote: »

Same here. This year anyway. Am going over an odd paddock the clean out. My cows aren't loving the idea of cleaning out paddocks just yet. They better get used to it.

I was always using the twelve hour strip wire up to this year. Have 36 hour access this year and golf ball grazing at the minute on 16 day rotation.

rangler1

Robson99 wrote: »

What Nutrients Muckit?? P&k??? Surley taking out surplus paddocks with light covers wouldnt remove much P&K

Why would it take out any less nutrients per ton of grass harvested, a figure of €8/bale was estimated here for fert.
Anything you draw off a field has a cost

Robson99

rangler1 wrote: »

Why would it take out any less nutrients per ton of grass harvested, a figure of €8/bale was estimated here for fert

Taking out strong paddocks is only the same as a double round of grazing. Surely two rounds of grazing wouldnt remove much nutrients compare to a cut of silage

rangler1

Robson99 wrote: »

Taking out strong paddocks is only the same as a double round of grazing. Surely two rounds of grazing wouldnt remove much nutrients compare to a cut of silage

Would 6 bale/ac not take half the P and K of a silage cut of 12bale/ac
With grazing, the majority of the nutrients is going back when they dung

Robson99

rangler1 wrote: »

Would 6 bale/ac not take half the P and K of a silage cut of 12bale/ac
With grazing, the majority of the nutrients is going back when they dung

Maybe it would but i would have thought surplus paddocks would be returning 3-4 bales / acre and wouldnt be forced the way a silage crop would be.

Dont think they sh**e that much to put back much nutrients

Muckit

Robson99 wrote: »

Dont think they sh**e that much to put back much nutrients

That's where you're wrong! They reckon in a season cattle will hit every sq m with their sh*t.

Clippings from toppings will also return nutrients to the soil.

Robson99

Muckit wrote: »

That's where you're wrong! They reckon in a season cattle will hit every sq m with their sh*t.

Clippings from toppings will also return nutrients to the soil.

You learn something new everyday. Thought I just wasnt watching where I was walking:D

rangler1

Robson99 wrote: »

Maybe it would but i would have thought surplus paddocks would be returning 3-4 bales / acre and wouldnt be forced the way a silage crop would be.

Dont think they sh**e that much to put back much nutrients

Dairy cows probably wouldn't put back much by the time they'd have produced 25ltrs

Viewtodiefor

Top here as lowish stocking rate and some fields not accessible via roadway which makes it harder to control them. This year so far I've baled 3 of the paddocks and topped two. Will have the best of grass on them in a week or two. Don't like topping (wastage and time n diesel used) but sometimes you have two do it

Western Pomise

Typical suckler/sheep farmer here with old pasture on majority of farm,wouldn't know a paddock if it hit me in face:)...but def feel that topping fields on a rotational basis improves grass quality,have 15 ewes and 25 lambs on one 5 acre field last 6 weeks,have it well 'ate' now and are odd bunches of light rushes,docks etc left around field so will be topping it during week and leaving it for a fortnight before restocking it.If it was just left to 'freshen' up you would have poor grass around ditches,in wetter spots etc IMO.

keep going

There a big difference between topping on different farms.in our case its just tidying up a paaddock that might have been poorly grazed at some point and usually the cows would lick the grass up but in some farms its right strong that no cow would eat.usa
Ly give 80 percent of the farm a lick of either topping or premow but not a fan of bales personally

larrymiller

Funny that I seen this. I have cattle in a field and they wouldn't eat the wirey grass so I took them out, topped the field let them back in and they walked around and are every piece of cut grass

farmernewbie

larrymiller wrote: »

Funny that I seen this. I have cattle in a field and they wouldn't eat the wirey grass so I took them out, topped the field let them back in and they walked around and are every piece of cut grass

Lads, need to get a contractor to top a few acres for me. How much an acre should it be roughly?

C4d78

farmernewbie wrote: »

Lads, need to get a contractor to top a few acres for me. How much an acre should it be roughly?

15/acre should be reasonable enough for it seeing as mowing is in an around 20/acre for silage

farmernewbie

C4d78 wrote: »

15/acre should be reasonable enough for it seeing as mowing is in an around 20/acre for silage

Thanks

I said

Always find that as well after topping cattle love eating the cuttings

IH784man

I've a few questions not good enough for its own topic

I've a field of 1.5 acres rented,the grass has gone long and seedy and there are patches of dockins,thistles and rushes in it too,it's a bit wet in patches

I'd like to get it topped but,will the grass and stuff die off over the winter,or will I get it topped before I come of it in September.

Also,is it worth spreading fertiliser on it before i come of it,would I get a nice bit of grass for my ewes and lambs by spring?Then spray the rushes and thistles and all in the spring again.

Sorry if it's a but confusing,I'm no good at sorting out my grass.

Edit,is it alright to top away at it or would I be better asking him.

just do it

IH784man wrote: »

I've a few questions not good enough for its own topic

I've a field of 1.5 acres rented,the grass has gone long and seedy and there are patches of dockins,thistles and rushes in it too,it's a bit wet in patches

I'd like to get it topped but,will the grass and stuff die off over the winter,or will I get it topped before I come of it in September.

Also,is it worth spreading fertiliser on it before i come of it,would I get a nice bit of grass for my ewes and lambs by spring?Then spray the rushes and thistles and all in the spring again.

Sorry if it's a but confusing,I'm no good at sorting out my grass.

Edit,is it alright to top away at it or would I be better asking him.

Don't think you've to ask as you'd be improving it for owner. I reckon top now and lick in a few weeks when rushes etc are higher than the grass. Possibly 1 grazing after topping and then lick.

Are you rotation grazing?

IH784man

No I have them in it a while just leave them in it