Help!!! Start school at 4 or 5?

Newmummy1978

Hi,

I am in such a dilemma....my daughter just turned 4 in May and was intending to send her to school this Sep however noe im having second thoughts as so many mums ive spoken to have said it is better to wait until nearer 5.

Can you let me know your experiences please what difference does it make?

Conelan

Hi.
Our little girl was a May baby and started at 4. No problems thank God (now in 2nd) and happy!! Don't know if you in urban area of consistent enrolment figures or rural area of fluctuating enrolment but that was another element thrown into the mix for us. To explain; we were happy for our little one to start at age 4 and go into a class of 22 than to wait til she was 5 and go into a class of 30.
Don't worry about what others say, you know your own child best. Some are ready for school at 4, some not. All you can do is what you think is best for your child. That's all any of us can do!!

plmko

I was born in May and set to school at the age of four. My mother always said it was the right decision. It is much better to be having your child learning and developing their brain than not. I'd strongly advise it

40now

Hi there OP, we've put 5 kids through school and of those 5 only one was 5 when he started the rest were 4 and I have to say that all were able for it and it may be a coincidence but the one who started at 5 is the only one of our kids that was kept back, so if you feel your child is able for it then they will be.
Keep on talking to other parents but don't let them influence you too much as only you know your child.

The Peanut

Hi there,

It really depends on the child in question. I'm guessing from your post that your child is the eldest. Both of my sons were born in July/August so had just turned 5; settled in fine and had no problems.

My daughter was born in March and we are starting her this year at 4.5 years. As she is not the eldest, she is used to hearing her brothers talk about school and sees the drop-off and collections; she has no fear about the concept of school and is dying to go. I'm positive it will work out but you don't know. It's a gut feeling. She's outgoing and we feel she is ready.

Children are used to play school, pre-schools now so the shock of separation is often gone by school time. If you think your child is ready, send her. If not hold her back. The year can make a difference when then are finishing school - a long way away admittedly at the moment - but transition year carries most kids past 18 years of age now which has to be a good thing.

Best of luck.

evolving_doors

I think it really depends on the child tbh. Maybe ask the school for a list of things a child should be able to do independently before they start. Count to ten, ABC, recite a nursery rhyme, almost dress herself, independant bathroom skills... not to worry as these things can come over the summer too!
Does she know anybody else starting?
What is she like in social situations?
Has she done the pre school year?

Edit: maybe a consideration given the above point on a transition year in secondary. I.e. if you are certain of her being in a particular secondary school and they don't do TY , then she would be 17 doing the LC/going to college (if my sums are correct!). If a 5th year student starts to get it into their head that they are too young for college (via her parents comments) then it could be a case of "ah shur ill be repeating anyway, no worries about studying now!). Although thats 12 years away yet so maybe I'm just borrowing problems from the future unnecessairly.

SamforMayo

I have never taught a child who started school too old, I have taught many who started school too young. Very few children start school at 4 in May these days so if I was you I would ask the teacher for the age profile of kids coming in. If she is going to be one of the youngest I would seriously consider holding her for another year. Its not just starting school you need to consider, its whether you want her to be hanging around with kids up to a year and a half older as she gets up to preteen years. Its a hard decision, I had my own child all set for school at 4.7 years, (January birthday), at the last minute I changed my mind and kept him for another year. It was the making of him. Good luck with the decision.

RH149

I think all the 'I started at 4' stories are largely irrelevant now as traditionally children started at 4 so were with a peer group of children aged 4. Due to moving house and the local school being oversubscribed I started at 5 and I was the oldest in my class, which I always remember being very conscious of . Some children would like that but I never did and imagine it must be the same if you're the youngest or younger than most of your class mates. I still recall now, in my 40s, being teased about losing my two front teeth......seems a small thing now but I hated it and it didn't matter that the following year they were all gummy too, I just felt out of sync and children can be cruel.


Now however the vast majority of children are 5 or very close to it and children who are sent at 4 will be the youngest. They may seem ready and most probably are as they all go to preschool now but they are a year younger than their peer group.....I don't think that year ever gets 'caught up' on along the way. I had this conversation 10 years ago with my friend who for financial reasons decided to send her daughter to school at 4 instead of paying for another year at playschool. She asked for my advice but really was determined to send her anyway and save the money and yes her little girl was ready and settled in fine. Now at 14 she's in a peer group of 15+ who are smoking and drinking and probably more and she feels she's just not ready for all that. Of course the 15 yr olds shouldn't be doing all that yet either but teenagers push the boundaries and when they are mixing with older kids you have to expect that. A year makes a big difference when they're hitting puberty and while they all develop at different stages and for all their talk of wanting individuality one thing most kids hate is being different and being a 12 year old girl in a class of mostly 13 yr olds will bring issues- not always, but it is something to consider before starting her off early. You can't turn the clock back later and most schools won't allow children to repeat a year so be very careful. It worked out fine for me in the end, but if I'd had the choice I would have preferred to be the same age as my friends for lots of reasons.

byhookorbycrook

The DES will not allow children to repeat a year, because they are too young. Don't count on transition year either, there have been rumblings of it being done away way in the net few years.

huskerdu

My first two kids started at 5, and my third when at 4 ( April baby). He's smart and he is keeping up with the academic work of the class very easily, but it is obvious that he is one of the youngest and least mature in the class.

I have never heard a teacher recommend going to school at 4. I went to school at 4, did the leaving at 16.
I didn't suffer academically, but socially, looking back, I was less mature than my friends.

I have never regretted sending the first 2 at 5 ( Summer babies, so it was an easy decision).

As was said by a previous post, its not about junior infants, its about them being the youngest in their class going to secondary, doing the junior and leaving cert , the youngest in their class when a bullying incident occurs, when someone tells them that Santa doesn't exist or worse.

The first is heading for secondary school now and I am glad that she is 13 not 12.

idayang

what was the judgement standard when you decided whether or not send your kids to primary school? as a mum of a baby girl(born in July) i have the same question....thanks!

40now wrote: »

Hi there OP, we've put 5 kids through school and of those 5 only one was 5 when he started the rest were 4 and I have to say that all were able for it and it may be a coincidence but the one who started at 5 is the only one of our kids that was kept back, so if you feel your child is able for it then they will be.
Keep on talking to other parents but don't let them influence you too much as only you know your child.

CiaraG75

Hi there,

I have a good number of years' experience teaching infants and would always, always, always recommend keeping a child of 4 at home, unless their birthday is before the 1st of February. The issue is never whether the child is physically able to go to school. We could argue all day about how we all went to school at 4, and sure aren't we grand... The issue is whether your child will be emotionally ready for school at 4. Is she able to go to the toilet by herself? Can she put her coat on and take it off by herself? Can she sit for 10 minutes with you and concentrate on a jigsaw puzzle or a story? (Not on a DVD - they can all do that, but it doesn't help them at school!) How is her oral language? Can she tell you what is bothering her when she is upset, for example? She will be well able to do all of that when she is 5, so starting school will be a comfortable, easy experience for her. Please don't go by how well she knows her letters and numbers - you may think she will be "bored" in junior infants if you wait until she is 5, and maybe she will. However, I would much prefer that my child was "bored" for a year and able to cope with all that is being asked of her, than struggling all the way through school because she is not emotionally mature enough to handle everything. Please remember that starting school at 4 for our generation was a totally different experience - we were all 4, and the curriculum that we were expected to deal with was much simpler. Also, "staying back" was a common occurrence, and it is very much frowned upon now. There will be children in her class who are a full year older than her, too - sorry, I don't mean to sound negative, but as a teacher I can't stress enough how much easier it is for the children who start at 5 to cope with school. That one year makes a world of difference. I hope this has helped. The best of luck with your decision.

CL1970

I personally think it really depends from the child's "maturity" and also if they have older brothers/sisters......

ckd

We sent our eldest to school at 4.5 (end of march bday). While she was well able academically and still is one of the top of the class now in 4th class, I really regret not keeping her for an extra year. In the first few weeks it became apparent that socially at 4 she wasnt ready and wasnt able for the rest of the class who alot of were a year older than her. She got bossed around, her confidence declined, she was always a hugely bright/confident child until she went to school. She's not doing to bad now but she still never gets to pick the games played and has to do what others say as they are older than her and she's the youngest, she hates being the youngest.

I sent my twin boys at 5 and although they arent as academically able as their sister and get some resource hours, they are extremely happy and confident in school, they get on well with everyone and are great socially.

Thats just my tuppence worth but I would definitely keep a child at home with me until they were 5!

December2012

In a similar situation as you OP and I'm sending my youngest at age 5.

I would prefer her to be more advanced in her class than less.

idayang

Did you send your daughter to the crèche ?

Thank you!

ckd wrote: »

We sent our eldest to school at 4.5 (end of march bday). While she was well able academically and still is one of the top of the class now in 4th class, I really regret not keeping her for an extra year. In the first few weeks it became apparent that socially at 4 she wasnt ready and wasnt able for the rest of the class who alot of were a year older than her. She got bossed around, her confidence declined, she was always a hugely bright/confident child until she went to school. She's not doing to bad now but she still never gets to pick the games played and has to do what others say as they are older than her and she's the youngest, she hates being the youngest.

nickig

Speaking here as a teacher not a parent. The reality is that some children of 4 are well able for school, while others just are not. I'm not talking about whether your kid is 'smart' but how she deals with other children (lots of eldest/only kids interact really well with adults/older kids but don't fare as well with children their own age- ask in her preschool or creche about this), is she capable of doing things like going to the toilet on her own, putting on her coat, opening and closing her own bag/pencil case, eating lunch without help, how does your child deal with being separated from you, things like that.
My honest advice though is that you feel in your gut that she is ready, then she probably is.

alimci

My oldest started at 4 now going into 5th.....excells at school but so much younger than all her class mates. It does show in so many areas. Also agree about the age she will be when finishes school 17 is so young to send off to uni (fingers crossed). I would say hold off for the year....too many regrets

alimci

My oldest started at 4 now going into 5th.....excells at school but so much younger than all her class mates. It does show in so many areas. Also agree about the age she will be when finishes school 17 is so young to send off to uni (fingers crossed). I would say hold off for the year....too many regrets

ted1

Armelodie wrote: »

I think it really depends on the child tbh. Maybe ask the school for a list of things a child should be able to do independently before they start. Count to ten, ABC, recite a nursery rhyme, almost dress herself, independant bathroom skills... not to worry as these things can come over the summer too!
Does she know anybody else starting?
What is she like in social situations?
Has she done the pre school year?

If that's the criteria then I should have sent ours when they were two. I'm serious.

If you send your child at 5 that means that they will be 6 in junior infant. That's way to old. Throw in 8 years of school and then 6 years if secondary school that's late for college especially if they repeat a year

byhookorbycrook

There is no promise that secondary will remain a 6 year cycle as transition year could well be abolished .

evolving_doors

ted1 wrote: »

If that's the criteria then I should have sent ours when they were two. I'm serious.

If you send your child at 5 that means that they will be 6 in junior infant. That's way to old. Throw in 8 years of school and then 6 years if secondary school that's late for college especially if they repeat a year

What yer kid was toilet trained at 2?
That wasn't a prescriptive list either (hence the word ' maybe'. I have child who'll be exact same age as my other child when she started but seriously considering holding him back for a multitude of reasons.

As I secondary teacher I just see a good few of the youngest kids still in 'primary school mode' going into second year. I wouldnt be overly concerned about the total length of time in education either as I know other countries start third level a fair bit later than 17. Also I think it is a lot of pressure to be putting on a 16 year old about GOING TO COLLEGE. I remember I got kicked out of career guidance class when I told the teacher I hadn't a clue what I wanted to BE in life...at 16¿?? You can talk about parents not putting pressure but its obvious the kids look around the class and assume they must follow their peers. I'd be interested to know the ages of the 3rd level students who drop out as Ireland does have a high drop out rate.

Age is only a conversation starter, its like someone on A&P forum asking "is now the right time to buy a house?" as their first post.

ted1

She was out of nappies at two, she really trained herself skipping the potty and climbing up on to the toilet. My 4.5 year old is starting school in September (aug birthday) but has been in Montessori for 2.5 years. She knows lots of songs ( Bonnie Taylor's turn around is her favourite) she can read and spell and has started doing maths. She knows all the days and moths if the year in Irish and English, I think most the class are at the same standard.

She'll be starting a Gael scoil so I'm intrested in seen how she gets on when thrown into the deep end

ted1

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There is no promise that secondary will remain a 6 year cycle as transition year could well be abolished .

So could first, second , third, fourth etc. Let's work of what we know and currently exists

byhookorbycrook

ted1 wrote: »

So could first, second , third, fourth etc. Let's work of what we know and currently exists

Transition year has a greater chance of being abolished to save costs , it has already been thrown around in budget ideas. My point is we cannot count on a 6 year secondary cycle .

SamforMayo

ted1 wrote: »

If that's the criteria then I should have sent ours when they were two. I'm serious.

If you send your child at 5 that means that they will be 6 in junior infant. That's way to old. Throw in 8 years of school and then 6 years if secondary school that's late for college especially if they repeat a year

Do you want your children starting secondary school at 12 with children a year older? Most people aim to start their children at age 5 now not age 4, there fore the younger children are at a disadvantage from day one.

evolving_doors

SamforMayo wrote: »

Do you want your children starting secondary school at 12 with children a year older? Most people aim to start their children at age 5 now not age 4, there fore the younger children are at a disadvantage from day one.

I don't think it's as clear cut as age. Is every 5 year old more mature than every 4 year old?. It depends on a multitude of factors (age being just one).

If yo think about it, your child may be having difficulties socialising or taking instruction. If you just simply put it down to age and say "ah shur they'll be ready next year" without taking any action (regular playgroups etc.) then you are still on a hiding to nothing despite the age.

SamforMayo

Armelodie wrote: »

I don't think it's as clear cut as age. Is every 5 year old more mature than every 4 year old?. It depends on a multitude of factors (age being just one).

If yo think about it, your child may be having difficulties socialising or taking instruction. If you just simply put it down to age and say "ah shur they'll be ready next year" without taking any action (regular playgroups etc.) then you are still on a hiding to nothing despite the age.

True but in my experience children do better in school when started a little older. I believe if they turn 5 before Christmas start them if not hold them to the following September. I have never met anyone who regretted keeping their child an extra year but I know many who regret starting them at 4/4 and 1/2

evolving_doors

SamforMayo wrote: »

True but in my experience children do better in school when started a little older. I believe if they turn 5 before Christmas start them if not hold them to the following September. I have never met anyone who regretted keeping their child an extra year but I know many who regret starting them at 4/4 and 1/2

Ya, I would kind of agree with that view.
Just to play devil's advocate however, I think its important to consider my above points for parents who's kids are starting at 4 this september. No point in stressing them out esp. if their kid is ready in every way except for having a birthday cake with a 5 on it.


Also another factor might be the type of school,

I.e. it could be a small rural one where all the kids know each other or have cousins.

Conversly I think it is especially stressful for parents in cities who have moved recently and know absolutely no-one. And given that (because of larger choice) a good few urban parents would drive miles past other local schools just to get their kids into a 'good' school. In this case its obvious that the parent would want their child to hit the ground running in terms of socialisation. So the risk of starting too young might be greater than the rural type scenario.
Both cases might have kids the exact same age but different backgrounds.

ckd

idayang wrote: »

Did you send your daughter to the crèche ?

Thank you!

ckd wrote: »

We sent our eldest to school at 4.5 (end of march bday). While she was well able academically and still is one of the top of the class now in 4th class, I really regret not keeping her for an extra year. In the first few weeks it became apparent that socially at 4 she wasnt ready and wasnt able for the rest of the class who alot of were a year older than her. She got bossed around, her confidence declined, she was always a hugely bright/confident child until she went to school. She's not doing to bad now but she still never gets to pick the games played and has to do what others say as they are older than her and she's the youngest, she hates being the youngest.

Yes she went to creche for 2 days a week for a year then to playschool for 5 days a week in the year before she started school so had plenty of interaction with other kids. I just feel she is definitely at a disadvantage being the youngest in the class.

ckd

ted1 wrote: »

She was out of nappies at two, she really trained herself skipping the potty and climbing up on to the toilet. My 4.5 year old is starting school in September (aug birthday) but has been in Montessori for 2.5 years. She knows lots of songs ( Bonnie Taylor's turn around is her favourite) she can read and spell and has started doing maths. She knows all the days and moths if the year in Irish and English, I think most the class are at the same standard.

She'll be starting a Gael scoil so I'm intrested in seen how she gets on when thrown into the deep end

Have I read this post correct?? Your child is turning 4 in August and is starting in September?? My children are also in gaelscoil and they will not accept a child who does not turn 4 on or before the 31st of March in the year they start school, I presumed all gaelscoils had the same entrance criteria???

Moonbeam

All schools set their own entrance criteria.
I am confused..if she has an August birthday then how is she 4.5?
It really has nothing to do with academic ability and is down to their social skills and how they deal with people and situations.
She would be nearly 1 1/2 years younger then some of her class.

uck51js9zml2yt

We are keeping our son out of school till he's 5. Saying that, we had him in montessori from 3.
We paid for the first year and have this year free. It's done him a world of good.

SamforMayo

ted1 wrote: »

She was out of nappies at two, she really trained herself skipping the potty and climbing up on to the toilet. My 4.5 year old is starting school in September (aug birthday) but has been in Montessori for 2.5 years. She knows lots of songs ( Bonnie Taylor's turn around is her favourite) she can read and spell and has started doing maths. She knows all the days and moths if the year in Irish and English, I think most the class are at the same standard.

She'll be starting a Gael scoil so I'm intrested in seen how she gets on when thrown into the deep end

What was she doing in montessori at barely 2????? What is the big rush to get them out the door?

Nutellayum

Hi my daughter will be 4 on may 1st 2015 is this too young to start her off in primary school or should i wIt until shes 5.

byhookorbycrook

You may not have a choice ,depending on the school policy.
There was a recent thread on this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057225285

Tar.Aldarion

I would always say earlier is best even though my mother waited until I was 5. Better to be learning at an age where people learn most.

mrsbyrne

My daughter was 4 in the August and she went into Junior Infants in September because she had already had a year in Preschool.
Of course she was too young and she then repeated JI but it worked out great. She didn't realise she had stayed back and she was benefiting all the time from being in a formal classroom situation.
I would go ahead and enroll the child and follow the advice of the school if they think she needs to repeat.

byhookorbycrook

Repeating a class is not always possible and the DES frown on a child repeating due to immaturity, I also feel it can impact on a child's self esteem.

SamforMayo

mrsbyrne wrote: »

My daughter was 4 in the August and she went into Junior Infants in September because she had already had a year in Preschool.
Of course she was too young and she then repeated JI but it worked out great. She didn't realise she had stayed back and she was benefiting all the time from being in a formal classroom situation.
I would go ahead and enroll the child and follow the advice of the school if they think she needs to repeat.

What kind of attitude is that? Schools are not there to provide a babysitting service. Starting a child who has just turned 4 at school is crazy, it has a negative impact on everyone involved including the other children. Repeating may have turned out great for your daughter for many children it is very upsetting and does not correct the fact they started to young.

Newmummy1978

Hi there

I was wondering if you can offer me some advice please!!!!
My daughter will be starting junior infants in sep 2015 and I can't decide on which school to send her and I'm getting is stressed about it.
I have the local catholic school with 4xclasses and 30 in each class. It is 10 mins walk from our house however I'm concerned that there may be some kids from working class families going there that could be a bit rough. I've spoken to a few mins with kids there and they day it's a great school. Then there is a multi denominational school also 10 mins walk and I'm concerned that there will be too many nationalities there and also I know a family who took their child out of the school bec their child wasn't happy there. Both schools seem very big and somewhat impersonal and I'm anxious about my girl starting in such big schools.
I was considering 2 schools further away in more affluent areas but I'm getting stressed already thinking of the daily commute 30-40 mins drive each way as I work full time from home and then her friends would be further away aswell.
We have been offered a place in a rural school 20 mins drive from our house and I spoke to the vice principal there and she was very approachable and the parents I spoke to all seem very happy but I'm concerned it may be too far away still to go everyday and the parking is a problem over there.

Can you offer any advice from your experience what's the best school to go for? I'm so anxious about it all, I can't decide what to do. Help!!!

CiaraG75 wrote: »

Hi there,

I have a good number of years' experience teaching infants and would always, always, always recommend keeping a child of 4 at home, unless their birthday is before the 1st of February. The issue is never whether the child is physically able to go to school. We could argue all day about how we all went to school at 4, and sure aren't we grand... The issue is whether your child will be emotionally ready for school at 4. Is she able to go to the toilet by herself? Can she put her coat on and take it off by herself? Can she sit for 10 minutes with you and concentrate on a jigsaw puzzle or a story? (Not on a DVD - they can all do that, but it doesn't help them at school!) How is her oral language? Can she tell you what is bothering her when she is upset, for example? She will be well able to do all of that when she is 5, so starting school will be a comfortable, easy experience for her. Please don't go by how well she knows her letters and numbers - you may think she will be "bored" in junior infants if you wait until she is 5, and maybe she will. However, I would much prefer that my child was "bored" for a year and able to cope with all that is being asked of her, than struggling all the way through school because she is not emotionally mature enough to handle everything. Please remember that starting school at 4 for our generation was a totally different experience - we were all 4, and the curriculum that we were expected to deal with was much simpler. Also, "staying back" was a common occurrence, and it is very much frowned upon now. There will be children in her class who are a full year older than her, too - sorry, I don't mean to sound negative, but as a teacher I can't stress enough how much easier it is for the children who start at 5 to cope with school. That one year makes a world of difference. I hope this has helped. The best of luck with your decision.

Newmummy1978

CiaraG75 wrote: »

Hi there,

I have a good number of years' experience teaching infants and would always, always, always recommend keeping a child of 4 at home, unless their birthday is before the 1st of February. The issue is never whether the child is physically able to go to school. We could argue all day about how we all went to school at 4, and sure aren't we grand... The issue is whether your child will be emotionally ready for school at 4. Is she able to go to the toilet by herself? Can she put her coat on and take it off by herself? Can she sit for 10 minutes with you and concentrate on a jigsaw puzzle or a story? (Not on a DVD - they can all do that, but it doesn't help them at school!) How is her oral language? Can she tell you what is bothering her when she is upset, for example? She will be well able to do all of that when she is 5, so starting school will be a comfortable, easy experience for her. Please don't go by how well she knows her letters and numbers - you may think she will be "bored" in junior infants if you wait until she is 5, and maybe she will. However, I would much prefer that my child was "bored" for a year and able to cope with all that is being asked of her, than struggling all the way through school because she is not emotionally mature enough to handle everything. Please remember that starting school at 4 for our generation was a totally different experience - we were all 4, and the curriculum that we were expected to deal with was much simpler. Also, "staying back" was a common occurrence, and it is very much frowned upon now. There will be children in her class who are a full year older than her, too - sorry, I don't mean to sound negative, but as a teacher I can't stress enough how much easier it is for the children who start at 5 to cope with school. That one year makes a world of difference. I hope this has helped. The best of luck with your decision.

Can you pm me?

spurious

Essentially, the biggest influence on a child's education will be the home.

Not sure what relevance 'many nationalities' has, so we'll close this now as the OP has been asked and answered numerous times.