Ballydoyle

FIVE2_THREE

I'm starting to get the feeling that Ballydoyle is on course for a major shake up. No way can Magnier, Tabor and Smith continue to pour massive amounts of money and get back such lackluster performances. the continued bad ridding by JOB along with Aidan's excuse making is enough to drive anybody over a cliff.

andyman

If Australia doesn't win tomorrow then there will be questions asked I reckon.

FIVE2_THREE

andyman wrote: »

If Australia doesn't win tomorrow then there will be questions asked I reckon.

Aidan is the kind of guy you can set your watch by.You can forecast what he's going to say before he says it.if a horse loses he says any one of the following five
1.He blames the ground
2.Says the horse wasn't fit
3.Says the distance of the race was to far
4.Blames the horses pedigree
5. Has to talk it over with the lads

UrbanSea

Can't help but think they must be kicking themselves they didn't send a colt for the jockey club. Think the French colts this year are very ordinary none will get near an Arc victory, bar Ectot it looks poor. You have to feel for his connections he readily won first time out beating the subsequent Guineas winner and he would have gone close in the Jockey club, he is far superior to the placed favorite Prince Gibraltar.


The English may be well ahead of them given that a horse who was 66/1 for the Guineas could scoot up there though he would have improved for the trip. Shamkala to be the chief French Arc threat with Treve, that is unless something comes out of the woodwork in the Grand Prix de Paris

abarkie

UrbanSea wrote: »

Can't help but think they must be kicking themselves they didn't send a colt for the jockey club.

That was a very strange decision, maybe strength in depth is lacking for Coolmore or maybe wrong time of year?

UrbanSea

Not sure but even today Kingfisher had every chance 2 out he could have ran well. They would usually have one for there, hindsight Geofrey Chaucer could have been a good choice but they'd obviously have had to forfeit today with him, but he needs a gr.1 with that pedigree

Actually they may well send him for the Grand Prix de Paris

Harry Angstrom

Ballydoyle always throw the kitchen sink at the Epsom Derby; the French equivalent is a nothing race for them, by comparison. They even ran the likes of King Of Kings and Hawk Wing in the Derby, and neither of those would have got a mile and a half in a horse box.

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

Not sure but even today Kingfisher had every chance 2 out he could have ran well. They would usually have one for there, hindsight Geofrey Chaucer could have been a good choice but they'd obviously have had to forfeit today with him, but he needs a gr.1 with that pedigree

Actually they may well send him for the Grand Prix de Paris

I would take Orchestra out of today's race as a decent prospect, he'd a rough passage and wasn't suited by the track but Romsdal who he beat when not fully fit franked the Chester Vase form and that form looks superior to the Dante form which produced The French Derby winner. The Derrinstown form didn't exactly hold up too well, so I'd be wary of Geoffrey Chaucer.

UrbanSea

Yeah can't help but think Geoffrey could be a Recital/ Jan Vermeer/black Bear Island type. Promising but won't deliver

Gringo180

Romsdal ran an absolute cracker had him each way at 20/1. He will win the Leger!

jimjamcos

Gringo180 wrote: »

Romsdal ran an absolute cracker had him each way at 20/1. He will win the Leger!

Him or his stablemate!

Emperor1989

Hell will freeze over for Magnier to rid of O Brien family.

There is simply no way that this will happen, Tabor and Smith might kick up a stink but they brought the money to the party not any knowledge of horse training or the breeding game. They for a large part are equity stakeholders in the game who provide the cash flow.
to allow Magnier and his son with Paul Shanahan and of course Demi O Byrne to purchase the champions of the future to carry there colours.

O Brien steadily every year produces stallions, first crop Mastercraftsman doing a fantastic job. He trained that horse exceptionally in the STS 3 yr old crop. This year he will have one stallion in Australia who could stand for 100k. War Command will stand as a decent 2yr old sire, Magician will also retire to stud. Doesn't matter what the filly's do? they are all for the breeding shed.

Also if you want to question results, question the sires they are buying, they have bypassed Sea The Stars, Teofilo and New Approach. They are investing in a US Dirt Sire heavily in War Front......thats a big gamble. His horses are not bred to go on Irish ground unless it is Good to Firm, they know this.

tryfix

Emperor1989 wrote: »

Hell will freeze over for Magnier to rid of O Brien family.

There is simply no way that this will happen, Tabor and Smith might kick up a stink but they brought the money to the party not any knowledge of horse training or the breeding game. They for a large part are equity stakeholders in the game who provide the cash flow.
to allow Magnier and his son with Paul Shanahan and of course Demi O Byrne to purchase the champions of the future to carry there colours.

O Brien steadily every year produces stallions, first crop Mastercraftsman doing a fantastic job. He trained that horse exceptionally in the STS 3 yr old crop. This year he will have one stallion in Australia who could stand for 100k. War Command will stand as a decent 2yr old sire, Magician will also retire to stud. Doesn't matter what the filly's do? they are all for the breeding shed.

Also if you want to question results, question the sires they are buying, they have bypassed Sea The Stars, Teofilo and New Approach. They are investing in a US Dirt Sire heavily in War Front......thats a big gamble. His horses are not bred to go on Irish ground unless it is Good to Firm, they know this.

They've no need to be purchasing foals from the likes of Sea The Stars, Teofilo and New Approach. They've got a conveyor belt of Derby prospects from their own stallions. They've got Galileo and Fastnet Rock who're far superior Stallion producing prospects to the above mentioned group.

They've bought Oasis Dream and Dansili in the past with limited success. The War fronts bring them an injection of quality miler speed into their operation that they've not quite got covered at the moment.

The one Stallion they could do with getting into their stallion line is Dubawi, the rest of the European Stallions outside of Coolmore's control tend to blow hot and cold.

huey1975

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Ballydoyle always throw the kitchen sink at the Epsom Derby; the French equivalent is a nothing race for them, by comparison. They even ran the likes of King Of Kings and Hawk Wing in the Derby, and neither of those would have got a mile and a half in a horse box.

That's a bit harsh on Hawk Wing. If I recall he was just pipped by High Chapparal and they were well clear

Emperor1989

tryfix wrote: »

They've no need to be purchasing foals from the likes of Sea The Stars, Teofilo and New Approach. They've got a conveyor belt of Derby prospects from their own stallions. They've got Galileo and Fastnet Rock who're far superior Stallion producing prospects to the above mentioned group.

They've bought Oasis Dream and Dansili in the past with limited success. The War fronts bring them an injection of quality miler speed into their operation that they've not quite got covered at the moment.

The one Stallion they could do with getting into their stallion line is Dubawi, the rest of the European Stallions outside of Coolmore's control tend to blow hot and cold.

Well Fasnet Rock is not proven up here, just like High Chaparral is proven down in the OZ but hasn't really done much up here. Yes they are producing Derby Winners but they aren't producing huge quality Derby Stallions. How many of those Irish Derby winners have done anything at stud......Ruler of the World will be a very hard sell at stud and more than likely will be shipped abroad.

Coolmore need to get more speed into there sire list, thats why they have bought Canford and Excellebration. I feel they need to diversify into some other Stallions at the Sales. The US experiment could be very costly, it never paid off with storm cat and nearly put them hugely in the red over the years.

I think War Front is a cracking idea, but running them in Ireland on soft ground is pointless, these need to run on fast ground only.

UrbanSea

Is this the same Storm Cat that produced a three time champion North American stallion Giants Causeway for them and stood at half a million at one stage


Doubt you will see any Coolmore owned Canford Cliffs doubt he will produce stallions either. They might give a few to Mastercraftsman now, Fastnet Rock the obvious choice for introducing speed but you'd like to see more top class ones for all they do in Oz they aren't doing it here


Not sure they will have that much of a problem with Ruler of the World, Al Thani will use plenty of his fillies and people forget he has a proper stallions pedigree, it's a very good US one on the dams side family of good stallions Lemon Drop Kid and Wolfhound

Emperor1989

UrbanSea wrote: »

Is this the same Storm Cat that produced a three time champion North American stallion Giants Causeway for them and stood at half a million at one stage


Doubt you will see any Coolmore owned Canford Cliffs doubt he will produce stallions either. They might give a few to Mastercraftsman now, Fastnet Rock the obvious choice for introducing speed but you'd like to see more top class ones for all they do in Oz they aren't doing it here


Not sure they will have that much of a problem with Ruler of the World, Al Thani will use plenty of his fillies and people forget he has a proper stallions pedigree, it's a very good US one on the dams side family of good stallions Lemon Drop Kid and Wolfhound

Conservately Coolmore paid possibly 50-60 Million for Storm Cats over his life time at stud. Giants Causeway has been a flop in stud in Europe, he stands State side and they have done a great job to convince people he is decent but really he hasn't produced any real sires of note despite having huge patronage of top class mares.

Selling Ruler of the World will be a problem, because why use him when you can use Camelot? or now Australia? or what about Pour Moi. Ruler of the World will be shipped for my money, he is a waste of a roster space now reminds me of that Dog Frozen Fire....but I guess at least Ruler of the World won" theee" Derby.

UrbanSea

He's better bred than any of those, Montjeu too strong an influence of stamina, he should do better than his half brother Duke of Marmalade they say never use a slow son of a precocious stallion. With Al Thani having half a share in him I doubt he will even stand at Coolmore there is only so much sons of Galileo that can stand there surely

Emperor1989

UrbanSea wrote: »

He's better bred than any of those, Montjeu too strong an influence of stamina, he should do better than his half brother Duke of Marmalade they say never use a slow son of a precocious stallion. With Al Thani having half a share in him I doubt he will even stand at Coolmore there is only so much sons of Galileo that can stand there surely

He is not better bred than Australia? , he has a stallion pedigree fair enough but the majority of them do anyways. The fact Coolmore are selling stakes to outsiders is in itself a massive hint that they don't actually want him at all in terms of Stallion duties.

Exactly hit the nail on the head, how many sons do you need? but in terms of the Top Galileo at stud Teofilo and New Approach are not in there squad. They still are looking for that outstanding son of Galileo for there own team in Tipp but they have now found it in Australia.

We will see do they find any stars this year from Galileo but my word they have bundles of good Galileo mares now to mate to Henrythenavigtor and who ever they wish.

UrbanSea

I wouldn't say Australia is better bred the dam may have been top class but the breeding isn't. As much as I loved Henry as a racehorse he isn't good enough as a stallion. 3 group one winners but he stood near 80USD first year which isn't good enough

Gringo180

huey1975 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh on Hawk Wing. If I recall he was just pipped by High Chapparal and they were well clear

If High Chapparal didnt run that day it would of been the most impressive Derby wins since Shergar, iirc they pulled a good 10 lengths clear of the third horse Moon Ballad. Although in saying that it was a horrendous field. Hawk Wing definitely stayed the trip he had a shed load of stamina on his dams side.

tryfix

Emperor1989 wrote: »

Well Fasnet Rock is not proven up here, just like High Chaparral is proven down in the OZ but hasn't really done much up here. Yes they are producing Derby Winners but they aren't producing huge quality Derby Stallions. How many of those Irish Derby winners have done anything at stud......Ruler of the World will be a very hard sell at stud and more than likely will be shipped abroad.

Coolmore need to get more speed into there sire list, thats why they have bought Canford and Excellebration. I feel they need to diversify into some other Stallions at the Sales. The US experiment could be very costly, it never paid off with storm cat and nearly put them hugely in the red over the years.

I think War Front is a cracking idea, but running them in Ireland on soft ground is pointless, these need to run on fast ground only.

Fastnet Rock had a very limited in quantity and quality book of mares used in his first season at stud here. He had no star mares sent to him at all, his future crops will be far better bred judging by his fee going private. He has still produced 6-26 23% runners to winners and £155,487 in win prize money. Teofilo has 20-113 18% runners to winner and £187,836 in win prize money. New Approach has 18-72 25% runners to winners and £240,265 in win prize money.

The most exciting thing about him is his potential to do a Danehill, he has a slightly speedier pedigree than Danehill had, but he seems to be capable of matching Danehill for versatility which if he does will make him second only to the mighty Galileo and will ensure he has a conveyor of Coolmore's well bred Galileo mares being fed to him.

We're not particularly talking about Irish Derby winners like Frozen Fire who've not done much else as stud prospects, we're talking about the conveyor of classy Epsom Derby winning prospects that Coolmore can produce. Their first Derby winners Galileo and High Chaparral have been very successful at stud despite not being expected to do a whole lot at stud.

Three Derbies in a row, Camelot even with his handicap of being by Montjeu is still a top 2yo Gp 1 winner and dual English Guineas-Derby winner probably cheated out of the Triple Crown and not a hard sell due his high profile.

Ruler Of The World has an excellent stallion pedigree and his form is a lot more solid than people give him credit for. They are pulling in a fabulously wealthy owner into their sphere of influence by selling a half share in him and who knows what the exact details of the stud part of the agreement are.

Australia is a hyped and delivered horse whose performances and profile make him easily sellable despite his light pedigree. He has the potential to do something even more special and stud friendly than his current excellent record has shown.

The big bonus for them is that Galileo is a sire of sires and his stallion sons are much easier sells than the Montjeu's were.

We are in a Golden age of sires in Europe, there are so many top quality stallions here it's very hard for them individually to retain their prominence year after year.

There's one thing Coolmore do that very few else can match, when they get a really good one they maintain his standing year after year.

The War Front's will have their sales money made back at Stud long before Coolmore have to face any potential splashback from going preferences with their stock. They are fine physical specimens and bring the potential for adding speed to the oceans of stamina laden European mares about.

To my mind, no other stallion prospect in Coolmore's gallery of stallions and potential stallions has the potential to establish itself as a challenger to Galileo than Fastnet Rock has.

FIVE2_THREE

In defense of Giants Causeway He is still looked at as a grass sire by breeders here in the States despite his pedigree so his lack of a dominant son at stud could be due to the lack of top brass mares the American breeders have sent to him. its only recently that American breeders have started to pay attention to the few sons he does have at stud so time will tell if his status as a sire of sires will develop.

FIVE2_THREE

Emperor1989 wrote: »

Conservately Coolmore paid possibly 50-60 Million for Storm Cats over his life time at stud. Giants Causeway has been a flop in stud in Europe, he stands State side and they have done a great job to convince people he is decent but really he hasn't produced any real sires of note despite having huge patronage of top class mares.

Selling Ruler of the World will be a problem, because why use him when you can use Camelot? or now Australia? or what about Pour Moi. Ruler of the World will be shipped for my money, he is a waste of a roster space now reminds me of that Dog Frozen Fire....but I guess at least Ruler of the World won" theee" Derby.

Just like they have with War Front they had a lifetime breeding interest in storm cat so by paying money for his progeny in the sales ring helped keep him afloat longer than he should have. Here in the states storm cat was not that popular as some may think. once Tabasco Cat and his other sons hit the wall in the breeding shed He fizzled out.

Emperor1989

tryfix wrote: »

Fastnet Rock had a very limited in quantity and quality book of mares used in his first season at stud here. He had no star mares sent to him at all, his future crops will be far better bred judging by his fee going private. He has still produced 6-26 23% runners to winners and £155,487 in win prize money. Teofilo has 20-113 18% runners to winner and £187,836 in win prize money. New Approach has 18-72 25% runners to winners and £240,265 in win prize money.

The most exciting thing about him is his potential to do a Danehill, he has a slightly speedier pedigree than Danehill had, but he seems to be capable of matching Danehill for versatility which if he does will make him second only to the mighty Galileo and will ensure he has a conveyor of Coolmore's well bred Galileo mares being fed to him.

We're not particularly talking about Irish Derby winners like Frozen Fire who've not done much else as stud prospects, we're talking about the conveyor of classy Epsom Derby winning prospects that Coolmore can produce. Their first Derby winners Galileo and High Chaparral have been very successful at stud despite not being expected to do a whole lot at stud.

Three Derbies in a row, Camelot even with his handicap of being by Montjeu is still a top 2yo Gp 1 winner and dual English Guineas-Derby winner probably cheated out of the Triple Crown and not a hard sell due his high profile.

Ruler Of The World has an excellent stallion pedigree and his form is a lot more solid than people give him credit for. They are pulling in a fabulously wealthy owner into their sphere of influence by selling a half share in him and who knows what the exact details of the stud part of the agreement are.

Australia is a hyped and delivered horse whose performances and profile make him easily sellable despite his light pedigree. He has the potential to do something even more special and stud friendly than his current excellent record has shown.

The big bonus for them is that Galileo is a sire of sires and his stallion sons are much easier sells than the Montjeu's were.

We are in a Golden age of sires in Europe, there are so many top quality stallions here it's very hard for them individually to retain their prominence year after year.

There's one thing Coolmore do that very few else can match, when they get a really good one they maintain his standing year after year.

The War Front's will have their sales money made back at Stud long before Coolmore have to face any potential splashback from going preferences with their stock. They are fine physical specimens and bring the potential for adding speed to the oceans of stamina laden European mares about.

To my mind, no other stallion prospect in Coolmore's gallery of stallions and potential stallions has the potential to establish itself as a challenger to Galileo than Fastnet Rock has.

Only time will tell with Fastnet Rock but Ballydoyle don't have loads of them to go to war with.

I agree with the War Front's they are fine imposing big animals and defo have a stamp of a sire on them.

I not convinced by Coolmore desire to attract more owners, I think they see it as a way of getting rid of a lot of there Group 2 Group 3 produce for good money to the far east. I would take it as a business decision rather than anything else. They have absoutely nothing in common with this Arab dictators oil money other than their love of the horse. I can't see it as anything other than a shrewd business decision.

UrbanSea

Probably the same with Kingmambo. Brilliant broodmare sire but not sure how he stood at 300k a pop

tryfix

Emperor1989 wrote: »

I not convinced by Coolmore desire to attract more owners, I think they see it as a way of getting rid of a lot of there Group 2 Group 3 produce for good money to the far east. I would take it as a business decision rather than anything else. They have absoutely nothing in common with this Arab dictators oil money other than their love of the horse. I can't see it as anything other than a shrewd business decision.

The Coolmore team could give the Arabs a lesson in ruthlessness.

Of course it's shrewd business. Al Shaqab are spending like drunken sailors in order to get in at the top end of racing.

Coolmore will be sitting pretty if these guys are buying from their sire lines. The war with Godolphin has not done Coolmore any favours so best to embrace the new kid on the block with the big cheque book at the sales.

Ruler Of The World will be retiring to Coolmore and Al Shaqab have a Galileo in training at Ballydoyle.

Odds on that their Treve will be visiting Galileo or Ruler Of The World at Coolmore next year.

andyman

A colt by Galileo out of Treve. Oh my.

Gringo180

andyman wrote: »

A colt by Galileo out of Treve. Oh my.

Emperor1989

On another note SSB is having a great start to his stallion career....4 winner from 6 runs.

Also lets not forget that Kingston Hill will be retiring to Coolmore also once he finishes.

UrbanSea

Who is SSB

Sorry just copped it. Qatar racing bought two nice looking colts in Quinn's yard that are Ascot bound. Any idea how many mares he got in goal

kiers47

andyman wrote: »

A colt by Galileo out of Treve. Oh my.

I'm not sure on the ins and outs but that's surely to close a cross. Treve is by motivator who is a montjeu.

supersean1999

Any of ye guys know roughly how many horses they have at ballydoyle. I remember reading the piece on there hay making process . The figures were mind boggling

tryfix

kiers47 wrote: »

I'm not sure on the ins and outs but that's surely to close a cross. Treve is by motivator who is a montjeu.

A bit iffy but not really, it's the same distance cross that the Sadlers Wells-Danehill nick works on.


Frankel's 3/4 brother Bullet Train { Northern Dancer - Sadlers Wells x Northern Dancer - Danzig - Danehill - Kind }


Proposed Treve mating { Sadlers Wells - Galileo x Sadlers Wells - Montjeu - Motivator - Treve }

Using Ruler Of The World would push the mating out to the Frankel level.



They mate even closer than that, Jim Bolger sent Lush Lashes and Cuis Ghaire x Galileo to Galileo's half brother Sea The Stars. Lush Lashes slipped, but Cuis Ghaire had her Sea The Stars foal. An untrained 3yo called Entiqaam in training with Dermot Weld.

Andalucia

the thread title should be changed to Coolmore, still a worthwhile discussion

Ballydoyle are a victim of Coolmore success, and what a success, they continue to produce sires of sires, just to note the two major sire breeding lines

Northern Dancer - Saddlers Wells - Galileo/Montjeu/High Chapparal

Danehill-Danehill Dancer - Masftercraftsman/Chosir/Fastnet Rock

Danehilll Dancer started at 4k, some lads made of fortune out of this fella along the way

As a business, they are keen to promote their own sires at the sales, hence they can go to 2.85m for the Montjeu colt of Finsceal Beo(unraced to date)

Always good to get new blood lines going though , hence the move for the War Fronts. 800 mares and 40 stallions and the breeding is going to start getting too close for comfort, War Front a success already, they already have a stallion out of him in Declaration of War, and another one on the way next year in The Great War, a beast of a horse

As AOB has stated, its a priveleged position, he's getting some of the best bloodlines the computer can contemplate, so he has a good start, but horse training is not an exact science - look at the limited return Wachman has got on the decent progeny he has received as son in law

But the lads are ruthless, and they call the shots, look how they clear out the dud stallions year on year, they'll clear out AOB if they see fit. Won't be happening any time soon though.

nuckeythompson

AOB has the easiest job in training. Anybody can train horses bred like what he has at his disposal

UrbanSea

nuckeythompson wrote: »

AOB has the easiest job in training. Anybody can train horses bred like what he has at his disposal

I hope that's a joke. They didnt just choose him for the job because they liked his name. There is a reason he trains them its because he is a phenomenal trainer. Sure Wachman does just as good a job.

nuckeythompson

lets be honest here , everything that he trains has stunning pedigree and he does not have to deal woth any BS dockey stuff. Im not saying he is not a good trainer , he has what every trainer would want to have in their own yard.
You ask any trainer if he has a handy job and they will tell you the most difficult part of his job ir mrs aob. FACT

UrbanSea

Out of interest can anyone remember Wachmans last group 1 winner it's hardly Again in the 1000 guineas??

I'm way off actually Sudirman

UrbanSea

nuckeythompson wrote: »

lets be honest here , everything that he trains has stunning pedigree and he does not have to deal woth any BS dockey stuff. Im not saying he is not a good trainer , he has what every trainer would want to have in their own yard.
You ask any trainer if he has a handy job and they will tell you the most difficult part of his job ir mrs aob. FACT

Sure if its that easy why doesn't Bin Suroor send out multiple group 1 winners each year not just nag gr1 at Meydan, or Mark Johnston. Weld doesn't exactly bang them out and he has had big Moyglare and Juddmonte backing

nuckeythompson

because the above mentioned does not have the firepower or power that aob does. He is a great trainer but has a much easier task than any other trainer in ireland

UrbanSea

Godolphin have far more horses than Ballydoyle and still haven't won a derby. Find a badly bred one of theirs

tryfix

UrbanSea wrote: »

Out of interest can anyone remember Wachmans last group 1 winner it's hardly Again in the 1000 guineas??

Duntle did the business and was disqualified in 2012.

In fairness he doesn't have anywhere near the same firepower as AOB, but then again AOB did the business big time at the top level in both Jumps and flat without having the bluebloods before he was recruited by Coolmore.

nuckeythompson

your missing my point. my point was aob has an easier job than any other trainer. Godolphin are known for ruining horses. AOB is a great trainer. I can assure you any trainer working for goldolphin find their job much harder than AOB
My point is HIS JOB IS EASY compared to any other trainer

UrbanSea

Not sure I'd agree with that, how many other trainers are expected to produce multiple group 1 winners each year, the man must he under huge pressure. We'll agree to disagree

chinguetti

supersean1999 wrote: »

Any of ye guys know roughly how many horses they have at ballydoyle. I remember reading the piece on there hay making process . The figures were mind boggling

I think they have about 120 to 130 in training this year. I heard they regularly work over 100 horses in a morning early in the season.

As for saying that its easy to train the best horses, I think it would be far easier to mess it up. APOB proved it with a lot of average enough NH horses that he got to win races with and people moaned about him. He's won something like 220 G1 on the flat and people say he has it easy. Magnier & Co are a business, if he wasn't doing the job to their happiness, he'ld be gone in jig time.

FIVE2_THREE

nuckeythompson wrote: »

AOB has the easiest job in training. Anybody can train horses bred like what he has at his disposal

And how do you explain Saeed Bin Suoor ? He trains for the richest owners in the history of the sport and still he fails year in and year out.

longshotvalue

nuckeythompson wrote: »

your missing my point. my point was aob has an easier job than any other trainer. Godolphin are known for ruining horses. AOB is a great trainer. I can assure you any trainer working for goldolphin find their job much harder than AOB
My point is HIS JOB IS EASY compared to any other trainer

Is say its the complete opposite, he would be under far more pressure than any other trainer as he wouldn't have many excuses for failure, and results are expected year in year out.. Other trainers have an excuse in that how can they compete with AOB or willie for that matter.

Harry Angstrom

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

And how do you explain Saeed Bin Suoor ? He trains for the richest owners in the history of the sport and still he fails year in and year out.

Godolphin started going down the pan when Sheikh Mohammed decided to boycott Coolmore stallions. Kind of ironic.

nuckeythompson

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

And how do you explain Saeed Bin Suoor ? He trains for the richest owners in the history of the sport and still he fails year in and year out.

Richest owners does not mean best horses

nuckeythompson

aidankkk wrote: »

Is say its the complete opposite, he would be under far more pressure than any other trainer as he wouldn't have many excuses for failure, and results are expected year in year out.. Other trainers have an excuse in that how can they compete with AOB or willie for that matter.

Far different pressure than most trainers. He does not have the pressure of sharing gallops which means time constraint. he does not have to worry how he will pay wages every week.
I still stand by what I say as he has an easier task than any of the others