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****Leaving Certificate: Higher Level Maths Discussion****

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,222 ✭✭✭robman60


    I have Active Maths and I'm pretty sure there's no derivation of either the amortisation proof or sum to infinity proof. I'm not even going to bother covering it at this point, it'd only frustrate me!


  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Ompala


    XtotheZ wrote: »
    Colleges are saying the standard of maths has gone way down recently..

    It has, a lot! My year was the first to get bonus points, and the drop out rate for science and engineering courses went up a lot from previous years, with many saying they couldn't handle the jump in maths.
    Aspiring wrote: »
    Even if not, we'll get the grade we deserve at the end of the day.

    Not surprised the standard of maths has gone down. However, the maths you tend to be doing in college is quite different to what we do :pac:

    True, but a lot of stuff would be built on the basics you are learning atm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭peekachoo


    robman60 wrote: »
    I have Active Maths and I'm pretty sure there's no derivation of either the amortisation proof or sum to infinity proof. I'm not even going to bother covering it at this point, it'd only frustrate me!

    I was just about to say the same. Ive never heard of proving amortisation before :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭FatRat


    Deriving the Amortisation formula is 100% on the course. I've a feeling there will be a lot of financial maths tomorrow too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Whistlingmilk


    Oh holy sh!te is amortisation proof 100% definitely on the course! ! Our teaher never even mentioned it to us :(

    It's on the syllabus, says so on the bottom right of page 25:

    http: //www .ncca.ie/en/Curriculum_and_Assessment/Post-Primary_Education/Project_Maths/Syllabuses_and_Assessment/LC_Maths_for_examination_in_2014 .pdf


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,222 ✭✭✭robman60


    peekachoo wrote: »
    I was just about to say the same. Ive never heard of proving amortisation before :confused:

    The book 1 is pretty horrific though, so I'm not surprised. All the examples skip steps with no explanation and it leaves you to try to figure out what they did in their half-arsed examples.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭peekachoo


    robman60 wrote: »
    The book 1 is pretty horrific though, so I'm not surprised. All the examples skip steps with no explanation and it leaves you to try to figure out what they did in their half-arsed examples.

    True. Did anyone post the proof around this thread? I didn't check :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Daniel2590


    peekachoo wrote: »
    True. Did anyone post the proof around this thread? I didn't check :P

    Check near the end of the last page


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 c0unterpart


    robman60 wrote: »
    You should probably look it up in your book, as it explains it in more detail, but I'll give it in simple terms.

    Injective: Each input gives a unique output. This means no two inputs give an identical output

    Surjective: codomain=range

    Bijective: Both injective and surjective.

    is codomain the output values ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 2014lchelp


    aleatorio wrote: »
    (This is me testing myself to see if I can remember :pac:)

    I believe surjective means that a horizontal line can intersect it more than once, all y values have to have at least one corresponding x value (so, it can't have asymptotes or whatnot), think something along the lines of a cubic equation

    Then injective means that it has to have only one, or no, corresponding y values, so a horizontal line will either intersect it once or not at all, not all y values need to have an x value

    Then bijective is essentially a combination of the two, it means every y value has one, and only one, x value, and every y value is corresponding to an x value, something along the lines of say, a straight line graph, a horizontal line will cut it only once :P


    Can someone confirm if all this is correct...?


    Yes this is right but don't forget this ; in order for it to be surjective the range must equal the codomain I.e. every y value has one x value. But in injective the range does not have to equal the codomain. I.e some y values may not have an x value. Then in order for it to be bijective it must be both in ejective and surjective! Therefore the range must equal the codomain (as in surjective) And remember. A function can only have an inverse if and only if it is bijective :) (makesure you know how to get the inverse)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭PaleMoonlight


    is codomain the output values ?

    Codomain is the set all possible outputs and range is the set all the actual outputs. So to be surjective all possible outputs must be used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭peekachoo


    Daniel2590 wrote: »
    Check near the end of the last page

    Thank you <3


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 c0unterpart


    2014lchelp wrote: »
    Yes this is right but don't forget this ; in order for it to be surjective the range must equal the codomain I.e. every y value has one x value. But in injective the range does not have to equal the codomain. I.e some y values may not have an x value. Then in order for it to be bijective it must be both in ejective and surjective! Therefore the range must equal the codomain (as in surjective) And remember. A function can only have an inverse if and only if it is bijective :) (makesure you know how to get the inverse)

    thanks man this makes sense now


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 2014lchelp


    Forgot a few things:
    Know the diff between injective surjective and bijective (horiZontal line test) ( and the vertical line test for the function)
    How to complete the square
    Nature of quadratic roots (I.e. bsquared + 4ac greater than, less than equal to 0)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭aleatorio


    2014lchelp wrote: »
    Yes this is right but don't forget this ; in order for it to be surjective the range must equal the codomain I.e. every y value has one x value. But in injective the range does not have to equal the codomain. I.e some y values may not have an x value. Then in order for it to be bijective it must be both in ejective and surjective! Therefore the range must equal the codomain (as in surjective) And remember. A function can only have an inverse if and only if it is bijective :) (makesure you know how to get the inverse)

    To get the inverse you let the function equal y and rearrange it to have x in terms of y and them sub in x for y, correct? :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 2014lchelp


    FatRat wrote: »
    Deriving the Amortisation formula is 100% on the course. I've a feeling there will be a lot of financial maths tomorrow too.

    What's amortisation :o:o:o I feckin hate financial maths
    aleatorio wrote: »
    To get the inverse you let the function equal y and rearrange it to have x in terms of y and them sub in x for y, correct? :o

    You got it ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 391 ✭✭XtotheZ


    Thanks so much Daniel. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭chatterboxxx95


    Holy mother of god...thank you people who confirmed that proof is on the course.
    Having heart attacks here because realising there's a growing list of stuff my teacher never taught us. It's times like these I utterly fúcking dispair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 c0unterpart


    Codomain is the set all possible outputs and range is the set all the actual outputs. So to be surjective all possible outputs must be used.

    so the codomain could be 1,2,3,4,5 etc but for y = x^2 when x =1,2,3,4,5 the range is 1,2,9,16,25 so the range isnt the codomain so its not surjective,i am right thinking this aha ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Whistlingmilk


    Holy mother of god...thank you people who confirmed that proof is on the course.
    Having heart attacks here because realising there's a growing list of stuff my teacher never taught us. It's times like these I utterly fúcking dispair.


    A lot of that list are important because they need to be understood beforehand as opposed to done from scratch on the day. But in the bigger picture of the whole exam they aren't worth too much marks compared to the more intuitive questions, so don't fret the 'small' stuff! :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Janeh9


    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about what am I doing jesus XD


  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭eefah


    My God, this whole thread is a lifesaver.
    I have such a list of things to cram into my brain by tomorrow afternoon.
    I'm not sure if I have the most incompetent teacher in the country, if Project Maths is just not for me , or if I just ... don't care about maths enough; but I just have my fingers crossed for a pass at this stage (I got an A in maths for the JC! I have no idea what went wrong), and several people here are reeeeeally helping me make that happen.
    I literally just made an account specifically for this message, take that as an example of how grateful I am and maybe also how much I am procrastinating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    so the codomain could be 1,2,3,4,5 etc but for y = x^2 when x =1,2,3,4,5 the range is 1,2,9,16,25 so the range isnt the codomain so its not surjective,i am right thinking this aha ?

    Surjective means that each output has at least one input . Many to one mapping . So that each y value can have more than one corresponding x value . You can tell Surjective functions by the horizontal line test .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Days 298


    2014lchelp wrote: »
    Our teachers gave us a list of learning stuff and I'd recommend to learn before tomorrow;
    How to construct root 2 and 3
    Proof of de moivres theorem by induction
    Proof by contradiction (there's about 8 examples) incl.
    Prove the sum of 2 odd numbers is always even
    Prove of geometric series by induction

    Differentiation by first principles formula
    I think that's it :) if you have these down at least if one of these comes up you'll feel more at ease with it . Hope this helps!
    If someone has these handy could they post it up please :)

    Im hoping de moivres proof and proof by contradiction come up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 c0unterpart


    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    Surjective means that each output has at least one input . Many to one mapping . So that each y value can have more than one corresponding x value . You can tell Surjective functions by the horizontal line test .

    I've never been so lost in my life :)


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    In the same boat as chatterbox95

    Only heard about most of this stuff today.. Hoping there'll be little of it on the paper as I need a c3 :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    I've never been so lost in my life :)

    That is the easiest way to think about it!
    Do you know what the horizontal line test is?


  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭eefah


    I've never been so lost in my life :)

    I find the easiest way to remember is just that a SURjective function can be cut at OVER one point by a horizontal line... a horizontal line can hit it more than once.
    so any horizontal line has to hit it AT LEAST once.
    As opposed to injective which is where a horizontal line will hit it AT MOST once.

    this isnt much help if any like, theoretical questions come up, but its how I remember.

    I admit its a lot less helpful to anyone who doesnt do french


  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Ompala


    Days 298 wrote: »
    If someone has these handy could they post it up please :)

    Im hoping de moivres proof and proof by contradiction come up.

    Just a guess at sum of 2 odd numbers...
    2m + 1 and 2n +1 with m and n integers, are both odd as they aren't divisible by 2
    their sum is
    2m + 1 + 2n + 1 = 2m + 2n + 2 = 2(m+n+2) which is even since it is divisible by 2
    Hence the sum of two odd numbers is even


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  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭Mario95


    Yeah, you have to derive the Amortization formula.
    Its pretty much just 'simplifying' a geometric series.
    Here's a nice explanation if you forgot how to do it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amortization_calculator#Derivation_of_the_formula

    Paper 1 tomorrow :) I am so excited!

    Good Luck everyone!


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