NZ v ENG, Sat 7 June, 0835

Swiwi.

|

01: Tony|01: Joe
02: Dane|02: Rob
03: Owen|03: David
04: Brodie|04: Joe
05: Sam|05: Geoff
06: Liam|06: James
07: Richie (c)|07: Chris (c)
08: Jerome|08: Ben
|
09: Aaron|09: Danny
10: Aaron|10: Freddie
11: Cory|11: Jonny
12: Ma'a|12: Kyle
13: Conrad|13: Manu
14: Ben|14: Marland
15: Israel|15: Mike
|
16: Keven|16: Matt
17: Wyatt|17: Joe
18: Charlie|18: Henry
19: Patrick|19: Dave
20: Victor|20: Tom
21: TJ|21: Ben
22: Beauden|22: Danny
23: Malekai|23: Chris

It's fairly early on Saturday morning, so maybe limited viewing appeal, and as such a limited preview. It's a pretty predictable NZ side, Read's injury means it was easy to find room for Messam & Kaino, while Vito will look to make a big impact off the bench it what is last chance saloon type material.

Cruden gets the nod ahead of Barrett, and injuries to Piutau & Savea make the back 3 an easy choice. I have to say the bench looks awesome, every single player has impact value, although I would have preferred Ben Franks to Wyatt Crockett. TJ was due to get a run out in Dublin, but it didn't transpire. There must be short odds on Beauden scoring a try off the pine. Look for the young Kiwi Tongan Fekitoa to enter the fray to a frisson of excitement from the crowd.

We'll see what team England selects, but they are likely to have issues at hooker and flyhalf as far as I can tell.

Should be a good match anyway.

Edit: I'll leave the preview to Miles Harrison

CatFromHue

You could see the AB's starting to struggle abit in November in that they "only" beat Ire by 2, Eng by 8, and Fra by 7 and they knew after wards they were in a game for each of those 3 games.

Should be interesting to see how they'll get on for the start of the new season. England could actually show up and be more prepared for this game too as all the Kiwi Super XV teams played last weekend.

Could this be a possible upset? England having Tuilagi back and fit will be a huge boost to their back play, which really let them down in November, and they'll have the guts of a good team out for the first test too. Weak in the front row though.

Tox56

Great to see TBC rewarded for his stellar season by lining out for England in every position 1-23. And some said he would only ever be a good club player...

On the game, NZ should walk it

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

You could see the AB's starting to struggle abit in November in that they "only" beat Ire by 2, Eng by 8, and Fra by 7 and they knew after wards they were in a game for each of those 3 games.

Should be interesting to see how they'll get on for the start of the new season. England could actually show up and be more prepared for this game too as all the Kiwi Super XV teams played last weekend.

Could this be a possible upset? England having Tuilagi back and fit will be a huge boost to their back play, which really let them down in November, and they'll have the guts of a good team out for the first test too. Weak in the front row though.

Yeah NZs "final" was the Ellis park match it wasn't so good from there. I'll have to wait and see the England team first but it strikes me they have too many absentees to win this one. At least the NZ team is basically picked on form, only Cruden gets there on reputation I guess.

matthew8

CatFromHue wrote: »

You could see the AB's starting to struggle abit in November in that they "only" beat Ire by 2, Eng by 8, and Fra by 7 and they knew after wards they were in a game for each of those 3 games.

Should be interesting to see how they'll get on for the start of the new season. England could actually show up and be more prepared for this game too as all the Kiwi Super XV teams played last weekend.

Could this be a possible upset? England having Tuilagi back and fit will be a huge boost to their back play, which really let them down in November, and they'll have the guts of a good team out for the first test too. Weak in the front row though.

Possible line-up:
1. Marler
2. Webber
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Burns
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown

It's hard to see any team beating NZ with Freddie Burns at out-half, and any advantage they might have got from a 6N together is negated by this group of players never having played together before.

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

Great to see TBC rewarded for his stellar season by lining out for England in every position 1-23. And some said he would only ever be a good club player...

It's the same guy being lined up for that elusive 13 signing for Leinster.

Swiwi.

It's Nige with the whistle! (Skips on the spot)

Tox56

matthew8 wrote: »

Possible line-up:
1. Marler
2. Webber
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Burns
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown

It's hard to see any team beating NZ with Freddie Burns at out-half, and any advantage they might have got from a 6N together is negated by this group of players never having played together before.

I'll be absolutely stunned if that team wins a test against NZ in NZ

The AB's themselves aren't doing too badly with injury and even then they're able to bring in Kaino, Cruden and Cory Jane in the positions they do have injuries...

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Yarde is an awful defender

First test will be a write off for England without the big guns

S12b

matthew8 wrote: »

Possible line-up:
1. Marler
2. Webber
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Burns
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown

It's hard to see any team beating NZ with Freddie Burns at out-half, and any advantage they might have got from a 6N together is negated by this group of players never having played together before.

Are all of the following injured : Maku Vunipola, Corbisiero, Hartley, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Lawes, Tom Woods, Billy V, Burrell???

matthew8

S12b wrote: »

Are all of the following injured : Maku Vunipola, Corbisiero, Hartley, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Lawes, Tom Woods, Billy V, Burrell???

Some are injured, Northampton and Saracens players can't play due to involvement in the Aviva final.

Swiwi.

S12b wrote: »

Are all of the following injured : Maku Vunipola, Corbisiero, Hartley, Tom Youngs, Dan Cole, Lawes, Tom Woods, Billy V, Burrell???

Some injured, some recovering from Sarries v NH.

In other news there was an awkward silence at the press conference when Brodie Retallick said he was looking forward to renewing his locking partnership with Dominic Whitelock.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jaysus, James "Team Bodyfire" Haskell will probably start

Grimebox

Some day of Rugby of Saturday

Rightwing

ABs to win this one pulling up.

d2ww

Grimebox wrote: »

Some day of Rugby of Saturday

Hi,
I noticed that Sky Sports do day pass for £9.99. I was thinking it might be worth it for the 4 games on sat. Does anyone know if this is available in Ireland?
http://www1.skysports.com/nowtv/?DCMP=ilc_2013_skysports_watch_lightbox

The Lost Sheep

England team named
Brown Yarde Tuilagi Eastmond May Burns Care; Marler Webber Wilson Launchbury Parling Haskell Morgan Robshaw (capt).

Care carrying a knock and may not be involved.. The bench is Gray, Mullan, Thomas, Attwood, Johnson, B Youngs, Cipriani, Pennell and If Care is ruled out, Youngs starts, Dickson on bench.

Cant see England getting near NZ. Too inexperienced..

Grimebox

Nigel Owens ref

CatFromHue

That's possibly the weakest ever English front row and front subs!

The loose 5 is good though and with Tuilagi back their attacking threat doubles already. I don't know much about Eastmond or Burns though.

matthew8

CatFromHue wrote: »

That's possibly the weakest ever English front row and front subs!

The loose 5 is good though and with Tuilagi back their attacking threat doubles already. I don't know much about Eastmond or Burns though.

Burns is poor. Third or fourth choice and can't kick at goal. Eastmond gets compared to Jason Robinson every time he does something. Chunky but stands at only 5'7 which is a worry for his defense, especially as Yarde/May will need help themselves. I've liked him whenever he has played for Bath in the prem but he has had hardly any game time since a tip tackle against Wasps not due to a ban but he's fallen out of favour there. NZ is a big step up for him and yhis game could be make or break for his career.

eclipsechaser

d2ww wrote: »

Hi,
I noticed that Sky Sports do day pass for £9.99. I was thinking it might be worth it for the 4 games on sat. Does anyone know if this is available in Ireland?
http://www1.skysports.com/nowtv/?DCMP=ilc_2013_skysports_watch_lightbox

I don't think it is available in the Republic yet but if you know someone in the UK, they can order it for you. You can then both watch it if you share the codes (it can be used on two machines at any one time). There's no regional restriction but it will shut down after 24 hours exactly.

I've done it a few times with the HC.

TheGoldenAges

Where the hell has Tom Croft been recently? Seemed to have dropped off the planet since the Lions tour.

Swiwi.

CatFromHue wrote: »

That's possibly the weakest ever English front row and front subs!

The loose 5 is good though and with Tuilagi back their attacking threat doubles already. I don't know much about Eastmond or Burns though.

I reckon there's 5 of England's Top XV there: Launchbury, Robshaw, Care, Tualagi and Brown. Although Parling & Morgan are there or thereabouts. English bench I virtually don't recognise. Hard to see them winning the forwards battle then.

Radio Sport had Nigel Owens on, and they got him singing! He actually has a pretty decent voice. One caller asked Nige if he swears at the ref when he's watching Wales play. The whole interview was gas, really funny guy, but also a good whistler too - which is the most important.

Nige on Radio Sport

Deano7788

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Where the hell has Tom Croft been recently? Seemed to have dropped off the planet since the Lions tour.

Did his cruciate in September. Only made it back in May.

ThisRegard

Swiwi. wrote: »

It's fairly early on Saturday morning, so maybe limited viewing appeal,

Pffft, early ? International windows like these are great for us with young kids who are well into our weekend at that time

Losty Dublin

Tox56 wrote: »

Great to see TBC rewarded for his stellar season by lining out for England in every position 1-23. And some said he would only ever be a good club player...

What happened to A.N. Other? Has he retired?

Swiwi.

ThisRegard wrote: »

Pffft, early ? International windows like these are great for us with young kids who are well into our weekend at that time

You're preaching to the converted there buddy! Add a dog and early summer sunrise into the mix, and I'm about half way thru my day by 830...

English Lurker

Lads, you're making kids sound like hell.

Ok, to do a rundown of the England side...

Marler - Nice. Imagine I said that like the dude from Jazz Club in the Fast Show. Anyway, in the last year, his international scrummaging and contributions in the loose have really come on, and I'm happy to see him, which is just as well considering Corbs' knees.

Webber - Uhm... he has talent, but not much experience, and his throwing for Bath has been iffy this season. Its been a lot better when Attwood's been in the Bath team, but apparently club combos are out today. Should be fine if he gets his throwing right, but I'm not expecting huge amounts... just like every other England hooker then.

Wilson - Nice. Carries strongly, scrummages strongly. Looking forwards to seeing how he goes considering his previous apppearance record has a touch of the Tom Courts if you know what I mean.

Launchbury - The sternest test our Messiah shall receive until he goes back to NZ in three years time as a Lion.

Parling - Pretty groovy for a third choice. Hopefully will help Webber get the darts right. Only thing we really lose here from Michael Lawes is that he's not as physical.

BRAND HASK - This might sound weird but I'm happy to see him. He's England's most physical back row option, he's England's most experienced back row option, and he's coming in with some decent form. Big game required but he's definitely better than Tom Johnson.

Robshaw - Think everyone knows what he does by now

Morgan - Thought he looked better than Vunipola off the bench a lot of the time tbh. This time last year was first choice, he's a better carrier out wide than Vunipola and I think he could cause NZ problems. Note - This is England's best carrying back row that I can remember in some time.

Care - I really hope he is fit.

Burns - Winner of the 2013/2014 prize for 'Big Talent in Little Form'. I really doubt he is ready for this.

May - Steep learning curve here but could create something given opportunity, he's got the pace and step. Maybe a little loose in the more prosaic wing skills. Looks like he needs to be a little confident.

Eastmond - At his best, England's best distributing inside-centre (at least domestically) since Catt but with a wicked sidestep. Absence from the Bath team is worrying. Being the size of Stringer is also worrying, he's solid and has a very good tackle completed rate, but I can't help but feel he'll give up easy yards to bulldozers. I suspect the back row will be tasked with preventing that, but equally NZ will be overjoyed to tie Robshaw in every time they run at Eastmond.

Tuilagi - Yup.

Yarde - See May, except with a bit more confidence and a bit more physicality.

Brown - Nice chance to cement his rep.

Gray - Possibly the third choice hooker at his club. Not hugely experienced. Hasn't had too much gametime if memory serves. Slight worry really. Good over the ball and accurate thrower on his day, maybe a little light when its not.

Mullan - Speaking of light, Mullan's about half a stone light of what an international loosehead his size should be. Looks great in the loose (at times) and a good technician, but could easily get bullied.

Thomas - Speaking of light for his size, Thomas is on last stats probably about two stone light for his position and it really shows. I don't think anyone else in England would pick him. I think the only saving grace here is that NZ think that scrums are for restarting the games instead of a chance for 3. The fools!

Attwood - Proper tidy for a 4th choice lock. Big, aggressive, good in the lineout, industrious and ok pace. A poor man's Martin Johnson at this stage of his career. Kinda wanted him to start tbh.

Johnson - Yet another man who's too light and too weak to play international rugby really. He's got pace and some lovely handling skills, but he just won't make a physical impression.

Youngs - Struggling for England form. If he's bumped up to start with Burns, that will be worrying. For England. Barring a miracle in which they both find their best form out of nowhere in which case NZ possibly lose.

Cipriani - I'd have started him and watched with interest. Not quite as magical as he was, but a lot more solid. He's even interested in defending!

Pennell - Specialist full-back. Been in very good form for Wuss apparently, not that I'd know as why watch Wuss? Not sure that jumping straight into international rugby against NZ is ideal, or having a specialist full-back to cover a specialist full-back is a great idea. If Tuilagi breaks down, we would have serious issues.

So there we have it. The starting pack is solid as a brick with a slight issue over the lineouts, the pack replacements need double portions at breakfast, the half-backs leave me a wee bit apprehensive to say the very least,and the starting back-line is exciting but very raw and with not much cover. If NZ can escape the England pack - sorry, I mean *when* NZ escape the England pack - they will score tries. But at least we might score some back.

Final note - I am very pleased to see Jerome Kaino return to international rugby in general but his timing sucks.

Swiwi.

Nice work EL. At least I have a bit more idea about your bench! England is always a good yardstick for any pack at set-piece time, so that will be useful for the Kiwi lads. But I can't help thinking England have far more to gain out of this tour than NZ, don't give a sucker an even break and all that.

I think the major difference is the bench, the NZ reserves have X-factor to a man, especially TJ, Barrett and Fekitoa, but Patrick Tuipolotou reminds me of Courtney Lawes (without the biffo), Vito is imperious at lineout time and very fast (played 7s), and the front row are all competent, mobile and with handling skills.

How is Burns at goalkicking? You know, for when you turn scrums into 3 points...

English Lurker

A season ago when in form, Burns was a solid if not amazing kicker. This last season he has been abysmal.

The bench is a big difference. I'm expecting your backs to be a lot more cohesive in general. Those two things should result in a 10 plus margin I'd have thought.

Grimebox

Care out, Youngs in

"It was Danny's own fault actually. It was a rubbish kick," England assistant coach Farrell said. "He stubbed his foot on the floor and missed the ball completely. He fell over and hurt his shoulder. It was absolutely hilarious. I burst out laughing but then realised it wasn't too funny.
"It was a little grubber through on the floor, which he miskicked. He won't be doing it again! I've got it on tape. I showed it to all the lads the next day - it was hilarious. But it wasn't quite as good two days later when he wasn't playing in the Test match. Anyway, we'll get over it."

sydthebeat

keeps getting worse for the English

.ak

Grimebox wrote: »

Care out, Youngs in

Hahah, I thought that was pretty funny myself.

EDIT: The way Farrell phrased it, not the injury.

Midnight64

Heart - England win
Head - AB win

Swiwi.

Midnight64 wrote: »

Heart - England win
Head - AB win

Heart - AB win
Head - AB win

.ak

Heart: Ben Smith
Head: Ben Smith

Losty Dublin

.ak wrote: »

Heart: Ben Smith
Head: Ben Smith

Heart; stay in bed and check the result when I get up.
Head; stay in bed and not bother with the result atall.

Davei141

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Heart; stay in bed and check the result when I get up.
Head; stay in bed and not bother with the result atall.

Get up and watch it ye lazy sod!

Grimebox

Stay in bed; watch on laptop

Yeah_Right

Get up and watch it.
Then breakfast.
Watch the Wallaby game.
Go for a swim and lie in the sun.
Fire up BBQ.
Watch SA game.
Watch Ireland game.

Yeah tomorrow is going to be a tough day

.ak

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Get up and watch it.
Then breakfast.
Watch the Wallaby game.
Go for a swim and lie in the sun.
Fire up BBQ.
Watch SA game.
Watch Ireland game.

Yeah tomorrow is going to be a tough day

Where's the BBQ? I'll bring the saussies.

Yeah_Right

.ak wrote: »

Where's the BBQ? I'll bring the saussies.

Sunny, sunny Malta

.ak

I was wondering. You wouldn't get away with that in Sunny, sunny Dublin 1 anyway.

Swiwi.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Heart; stay in bed and check the result when I get up.
Head; stay in bed and not bother with the result atall.

This from the guy who regularly posts the date, time and channel from every conceivable rugby fixture...:pac:

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Where's the BBQ? I'll bring the saussies.

For a split second there I thought steady on .ak, the Ockers aren't all bad.

padders67

hell of a baptism for Freddie Burns - especially now Care is out too

sydthebeat

I think we'll see a very tight 10 man game from England today.
If they let the ball out the line to a matched AB defense they really risk being turned over or driven backwards... even with manu in there.

Expect England to play very structured and set piece orientated while ABs will have no fear at playing fast and loose and if they can get their ruthless streak clicking out could be a long long night for England

Davei141

I am just hoping it is competitive so next weeks game will have huge anticipation with the returning English players. Hopefully a good start to the day of internationals!

umop.episdn

Could see this England side getting a 20 + hammering today, it could be more than a little embarrassing

LuckyGent88

New Zealand by 18

Davei141

That should be a YC for the pull back.