Jeep hit heifer

frogloch

New time poster. I am a dairy farmer and half my farm is across a fairly busy road. We have always been running cows and heifers across the road. Anyway this evening we were letting heifers across the road. They go out up about 70m to field gate. Anyway this evening at 7.15 my mother was standing at field gate stopping traffic and my father was in front of the heifers letting them out of yard onto the road and I was behind the heifers. Anyway he was letting them out when he thought there was no traffic coming. He was out at the side of the road to stop traffic and steer the stock. The heifers were just coming out when a jeep came up the road. My father waved him down but he never slowed down, the heifers came out and he hit one. No one was hurt but the heifer is hobbling a bit, she putting her foot to the ground and grazing, vet is coming in the morning, the jeep has a cracked bumper and scratch on wing. Now the driver would have seen my father from 150m away waving with a stick, my father recokons he saw him and the heifers and thought he'd put the foot down and get by before they came out. Accident occurred driver got out and started giving out about jeep, I told him what about heifer, he didn't seem interested. He said what are we going to do now, we both said we'd call the guards. I went inside and got through in about ten minutes only to be told by bangarda in station that the stock shouldn't have been on road, he got through before me, I told her my father was waving him down but he wouldn't stop. Was talking to driver while waiting on guards he said he does digger work and was after putting in numerous underpasses for stock. An hour and a half later the superintendent arrives in the transit. He said he's not here to pass judgement just to get particulars, anyway the guard said the owner of the livestock is usually at fault. But this is what gets me he said if my father was hit by the jeep it wouldn't be the drivers fault. So I said to him if anyone walks on the road and gets hit it's their fault he said that's the law. So I said we've been getting cows across this road all my life how are we going to do it now, he just shrugged his shoulders. Things were getting a bit heated and the driver's daughter who was with him said you should have an underpass in. The said it's a civil matter and the insurance companies will sort it out or else go to court. I'm in a bit of a huff!

ganmo

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf

page 205, people in control of livestock can stop traffic

tanko

Surely it would be better to sort this out between yourselves without getting insurance companies, solicitors or courts involved.
If you have cows crossing the road everyday an underpass might be worth looking into.
Ps paragraphs are great yokes too:D

Conmaicne Mara

It's my understanding (maybe misunderstanding) that a vehicle must stop when directed to do so by a person in control of animals on a road?

Sounds like ye had things set up well with people ahead and behind the animals.

cjpm

I thought traffic are to yield to a person in charge of livestock in the rules of the road??

He clearly did not.

epfff

I'd stand my ground
You are entitled to walk your animals provided you have them under control as you had
Notify your insurance company in morning of this incident and clearly tell them you are not accepting liability at this time also Instruct them not to pay as they love to settle quick and quiet as it's you that will pay with next few years policy

visatorro

Whatever you do inform your insurance company of the situation, but tell them not to pay out without telling you. Have heard of cases involving public liability that insurance companies just paid out.

frogloch

tanko wrote: »

Surely it would be better to sort this out between yourselves without getting insurance companies, solicitors or courts involved.
If you have cows crossing the road everyday an underpass might be worth looking into.
Ps paragraphs are great yokes too:D

the driver said theres no way he's paying for it even though it looks minor but still new bumper and respraying wing it's not even his jeep it's his fathers and fathers insurance but what got me was guards opinion on stock and people on road and saying my father had no right to stop traffic what did he learn in Templemore?

Farmer Pudsey

This is a hairy area. Just as a matter of interest had your father and mother Hi-vis vests on. Recently I stopped at the scene of an accident( a women's car had left the road). As it was on a bend and I had a hi-vis coat. I offered to direct traffic while two other lads helped the lady.

It amazed me the amount of cars that were very slow to reduce speed even though I was using an up and down movement and even if I had mt hand up to stop. It is crazy the amount that will not slow down in such a situtation.

Technically you seem to have had cattle under control and waving down traffic. However for you parents sake make sure they have something more visible than a stick, in future a good trick if road is narrow two ropes across the road with warning tape on them. I know you parents are in shock and have suffered trauma and they should see a doctor and maybe sue driver over this.

frogloch

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

This is a hairy area. Just as a matter of interest had your father and mother Hi-vis vests on. Recently I stopped at the scene of an accident( a women's car had left the road). As it was on a bend and I had a hi-vis coat. I offered to direct traffic while two other lads helped the lady.

It amazed me the amount of cars that were very slow to reduce speed even though I was using an up and down movement and even if I had mt hand up to stop. It is crazy the amount that will not slow down in such a situtation.

Technically you seem to have had cattle under control and waving down traffic. However for you parents sake make sure they have something more visible than a stick, in future a good trick if road is narrow two ropes across the road with warning tape on them. I know you parents are in shock and have suffered trauma and they should see a doctor and maybe sue driver over this.

No they hadn't hi vis vests on, I would be afraid of putting ropes across road. I think there was a case of someone putting a horseshoe on the end of a rope and throwing in ditch to block road woman in car drove through it and horseshoe came through window and killed her

Deepsouthwest

frogloch wrote: »

the driver said theres no way he's paying for it even though it looks minor but still new bumper and respraying wing it's not even his jeep it's his fathers and fathers insurance but what got me was guards opinion on stock and people on road and saying my father had no right to stop traffic what did he learn in Templemore?

I'd be pretty annoyed with the guard saying ur father had no right to stop traffic and more so with the beangarda (think that's a sexist term nowadays!) for saying the cattle shouldn't have been on the road in the first place. What if it was a child he hit, would it be the child's fault? Are u not supposed to drive at a speed u can stop at? I'd ring the legal advice section of the IFA about this in the morning, this is surely a query they'd be used of, and I have found them v helpful in the past

tanko

frogloch wrote: »

the driver said theres no way he's paying for it even though it looks minor but still new bumper and respraying wing it's not even his jeep it's his fathers and fathers insurance but what got me was guards opinion on stock and people on road and saying my father had no right to stop traffic what did he learn in Templemore?

What do guards learn in templemore? Now there's a good question. As far as I know insurance companies can pay out on a claim regardless of what their client thinks. If it goes to court it'll be your word against his and it'll be up to the judge to decide. Will your heifer recover ok?

frogloch

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I'd be pretty annoyed with the guard saying ur father had no right to stop traffic and more so with the beangarda (think that's a sexist term nowadays!) for saying the cattle shouldn't have been on the road in the first place. What if it was a child he hit, would it be the child's fault? Are u not supposed to drive at a speed u can stop at? I'd ring the legal advice section of the IFA about this in the morning, this is surely a query they'd be used of, and I have found them v helpful in the past

Yea I going to IFA office first tomorrow and then insurance, bumper hit her on the back knee if that makes sense, will get vet opinion first

frogloch

re getting cows across the road it used to be worse during the boom with people driving through the cows sometimes revving engines. But usually now people are more considerate.

con___manx1

It's in the rules of the road that a driver must stop for a person in charge of live stock.

braveheart1

The law is an ass. You wont get much justice in this case. Fight your corner though.

frogloch

frogloch wrote: »

re getting cows across the road it used to be worse during the boom with people driving through the cows sometimes revving engines. But usually now people are more considerate.

con___manx1 wrote: »

It's in the rules of the road that a driver must stop for a person in charge of live stock.

It was getting so bad at one stage that I had to block road with quad and me on it to stop people driving passed me while dad came behind the cows.

Kovu

The official stance on it taken from here- http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Agriculture_and_Forestry/Safe_Handling_of_Cattle_on_Farms_2011.pdf

(pg26)





I think you covered the majority of specs that they ask for, albeit not all. However if your cattle were in clear visibility of oncoming cars, I don't think hi-viz jackets would make too much difference, especially in daylight. (I stand to be corrected here)

Personally we had a similar incident happen, however we were moving suckler cows on a regional road up to outfarm land. People in front & behind, one waving down cars etc. Motorbike was waved down, he decided that he knew better and revved up to scare the cows and proceeded to go straight for them. One cow stood there, head down, went to take it on and he whacked straight into her shoulder/neck area. The bike ended up in the gripe after being deflected off the cow.
The rider proceeded to throw a little hissy fit at us before storming off. Arrived to us a few days later looking for money to repair the bike.
Left about 10 seconds later with one arm as long as the other, told him straight out he could involve the gardaí if he wanted, but we had already informed them of the matter after it had happened.

But as mentioned above, first thing to do is to notify your insurance provider and give them a brief overview of the situation.

frogloch

Never slept a wink last night, wondering how the hell am I supposed to get the cows in for milking this morning as guard said if standing on road getting cows across road u cannot stop traffic and if u get hit it's your own fault. This is fecking nonsense, you guys are saying it's not true why the hell did he say if the jeep hit my father it would be his own fault. I'm raging mad with the whole thing and with the guard on the phone assuming straight away it's my fault. The driver would have seen my father waving him down 6 seconds before the stock came out enough time to slow down or stop. I'm seriously considering making a complaint against the guard saying that it would be his own fault if my father got knocked down, they can't say that. Anyway i'm getting the vet to look at the heifer after milking and then to IFA office to see what they say and then to insurance office.

Mulumpy

Try not to worry yourself too much. I cross stock across the road regularly here too. Haven't had anything serious happen yet but plenty of near misses.
Do as planned get advice from ifa and insurance company. The guard was talking nonsense but in future I would block the road before crossing.

Lambofdave

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I know you parents are in shock and have suffered trauma and they should see a doctor and maybe sue driver over this.

That has to be the most irresponsible comment on here, sure while your at it have the heifer sue as well.
The IFA legal line really let us down they didn't even have the decency to get back to us

gctest50

You'd need these :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZujRvN0WE8

whelan2

op ring insurance company this morning they will advise you what to do, seems very unfortunate. We move cattle on the road a good bit and theres always 1 person who doesnt bother slowing down, i cant see that you did anything wrong.

jt65

whelan2 wrote: »

op ring insurance company this morning they will advise you what to do, seems very unfortunate. We move cattle on the road a good bit and theres always 1 person who doesnt bother slowing down, i cant see that you did anything wrong.

+1 inform your insurance

as I found out a scratch on a bumper can mysteriously turn into serious whiplash etc over night

onyerbikepat

OP, Like said already, don't fret over this. As for the Guard, he should know better. Was he a young guy?
You might consider having flags in future. Anywhere I read about moving cattle on road, they always seem to mention having flags.

Sam Kade

Anyone think that's it ironic that your man puts under passes for cattle and ploughs into cattle crossing the road?

JeffKenna

Hi OP,

It would be my opinion that the driver was guilty of dangerous/reckless driving. Surely you can't see someone waving you down and refuse to slow down. However I'm not an expert.

I'm going to go against the grain here and advise that you not make an issue over this. Is this driver well connected? it would seem odd that the guard came down so heavy against your father. Don't dream of making a complaint against the guard, what is now a relatively small issue could quickly escalate and make life very difficult for you in the coming years. Ring your solicitor and make an appointment with him today, he'll be able to give you some proper advise and at least put your mind at rest.

whelan2

Sam Kade wrote: »

Anyone think that's it ironic that your man puts under passes for cattle and ploughs into cattle crossing the road?

yup that crossed my mind

RightTurnClyde

Sam Kade wrote: »

Anyone think that's it ironic that your man puts under passes for cattle and ploughs into cattle crossing the road?

Very. Certainly one way to drum up business.

ganmo

JeffKenna wrote: »

Hi OP,

It would be my opinion that the driver was guilty of dangerous/reckless driving. Surely you can't see someone waving you down and refuse to slow down. However I'm not an expert.

I'm going to go against the grain here and advise that you not make an issue over this. Is this driver well connected? it would seem odd that the guard came down so heavy against your father. Don't dream of making a complaint against the guard, what is now a relatively small issue could quickly escalate and make life very difficult for you in the coming years. Ring your solicitor and make an appointment with him today, he'll be able to give you some proper advise and at least put your mind at rest.

If it was an honest mistake on the guards behalf better to put it right with a quiet word, if the driver has a connection to the guard go an official route

sea12

Article in the paper today's independent about this. It says once your in control if driving cattle with adequate help you wouldn't be liable. Anyway as said above its a solicitor you need to get professionL advice. Best of luck with it.

truedoom

if i was in the drivers situation, i'd be freaking out right now. Hope he is

Best of luck with it, do let us know the outcome!

Oldtree

An afterthought, did you take photographs of the damage on both sides?

rangler1

frogloch wrote: »

Never slept a wink last night, wondering how the hell am I supposed to get the cows in for milking this morning as guard said if standing on road getting cows across road u cannot stop traffic and if u get hit it's your own fault. This is fecking nonsense, you guys are saying it's not true why the hell did he say if the jeep hit my father it would be his own fault. I'm raging mad with the whole thing and with the guard on the phone assuming straight away it's my fault. The driver would have seen my father waving him down 6 seconds before the stock came out enough time to slow down or stop. I'm seriously considering making a complaint against the guard saying that it would be his own fault if my father got knocked down, they can't say that. Anyway i'm getting the vet to look at the heifer after milking and then to IFA office to see what they say and then to insurance office.

I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it anyway.....that's why you pay insurance, let them worry.
Notify your insurance and talk to your solicitor and you'll have all bases covered.
You're allowed have cattle on the road, just make sure to use hi-vis jackets

Jude13

I would be investing in a few signs and placing them up the road, both sides, from where you want to cross.

A man waving a stick does not clearly mean slow down to allot of people.

Viewtodiefor

frogloch wrote: »

New time poster. I am a dairy farmer and half my farm is across a fairly busy road. We have always been running cows and heifers across the road. Anyway this evening we were letting heifers across the road. They go out up about 70m to field gate. Anyway this evening at 7.15 my mother was standing at field gate stopping traffic and my father was in front of the heifers letting them out of yard onto the road and I was behind the heifers. Anyway he was letting them out when he thought there was no traffic coming. He was out at the side of the road to stop traffic and steer the stock. The heifers were just coming out when a jeep came up the road. My father waved him down but he never slowed down, the heifers came out and he hit one. No one was hurt but the heifer is hobbling a bit, she putting her foot to the ground and grazing, vet is coming in the morning, the jeep has a cracked bumper and scratch on wing. Now the driver would have seen my father from 150m away waving with a stick, my father recokons he saw him and the heifers and thought he'd put the foot down and get by before they came out. Accident occurred driver got out and started giving out about jeep, I told him what about heifer, he didn't seem interested. He said what are we going to do now, we both said we'd call the guards. I went inside and got through in about ten minutes only to be told by bangarda in station that the stock shouldn't have been on road, he got through before me, I told her my father was waving him down but he wouldn't stop. Was talking to driver while waiting on guards he said he does digger work and was after putting in numerous underpasses for stock. An hour and a half later the superintendent arrives in the transit. He said he's not here to pass judgement just to get particulars, anyway the guard said the owner of the livestock is usually at fault. But this is what gets me he said if my father was hit by the jeep it wouldn't be the drivers fault. So I said to him if anyone walks on the road and gets hit it's their fault he said that's the law. So I said we've been getting cows across this road all my life how are we going to do it now, he just shrugged his shoulders. Things were getting a bit heated and the driver's daughter who was with him said you should have an underpass in. The said it's a civil matter and the insurance companies will sort it out or else go to court. I'm in a bit of a huff!

Right first thing first don't be worrying too much this is not the end of the world ! Once you have insurance

1) have you signs up for caution cattle crossing? ( insurance co will ask you? My advise say yes!)

2) inform you insurance co let them deal with him. ( tell them you have people in front behind etc.

3) a driver has to obey a person in charge of animals fact it's in the rules of the road.

4) forget about the guard he's irrelevant really

5) it will all be fine and insurance will sort it out between them.

6) I know this as we have cows on the road all time and have had a few scrapes

So relax and don't be getting to upset over this ass

Jude13

1 and 3 are most important and linked. I wouldn't lie as is being advise about the signs.

If it was not clear that the person was in charge of animals, could simply have been a guy waving a stick, then the driver may not been sen as in the wrong.

Viewtodiefor

Jude13 wrote: »

1 and 3 are most important and linked. I wouldn't lie as is being advise about the signs.

If it was not clear that the person was in charge of animals, could simply have been a guy waving a stick, then the driver may not been sen as in the wrong.

If no signs up then I would get them up ASAP.
Yes he may have thought it was a guy waving a stick. Either way let insurance co know and let them deal with it. It's what we pay insurance for

rangler1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Right first thing first don't be worrying too much this is not the end of the world ! Once you have insurance

1) have you signs up for caution cattle crossing? ( insurance co will ask you? My advise say yes!)

2) inform you insurance co let them deal with him. ( tell them you have people in front behind etc.

3) a driver has to obey a person in charge of animals fact it's in the rules of the road.

4) forget about the guard he's irrelevant really

5) it will all be fine and insurance will sort it out between them.

6) I know this as we have cows on the road all time and have had a few scrapes

So relax and don't be getting to upset over this ass

With the technology that's available now people should be able to set up remote controlled warning lights, those cattle crossing signs mean nothing...the case here is all right, but when a person gets killed it makes no difference who's responsible, every other sector that obstructs a road has to put up proper warning

RightTurnClyde

Signs great, but under no circumstances lie to the insurance company. One lie and your insurance becomes null and void.

Deepsouthwest

Sam Kade wrote: »

Anyone think that's it ironic that your man puts under passes for cattle and ploughs into cattle crossing the road?

Come on, it's unlikely even if the op was gonna put in an underpass that he'd get this guy to do it!

Ascii

frogloch wrote: »

the driver said theres no way he's paying for it even though it looks minor but still new bumper and respraying wing it's not even his jeep it's his fathers and fathers insurance but what got me was guards opinion on stock and people on road and saying my father had no right to stop traffic what did he learn in Templemore?

Do you know the driver. Is he a local. Is he a fully licensed driver ? Is there a possibility he might not be covered by the fathers insurance

Putting signs up are an absolute must...get it done straight away.

*edit by mod*
What if the heifer had to be put down....can you go after his insurance for the loss or if you ran up €500 on vets fees

Oldtree

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

If no signs up then I would get them up ASAP.

Google Streetview could be used to show the signs were not there in the past.

visatorro

i wouldnt go reporting the guard to be honest. thats not really gonna get you too far.

we live on a twisty road. takes three of us to bring cows across road. cars and trucks do be absolutely flying.

contractor was cutting hedges here and i had full hi-vis gear, waving down cars and they just speed up. i dont cut hedges along roads anymore. another issue but if council get on to me i wonder how much sympathy il recieve.

whelan2

Oldtree wrote: »

Google Streetview could be used to show the signs were not there in the past.

we had awful trouble with young lads robbing the signs we would put up, seemed like a challenge to them to take them:rolleyes:

frogloch

Guard asked have u signs up I told him the driver passed by it. Vet was out and said u could put heifer in factory but half would be condemned he said she would never be right. Went to IFA office and man there was useless, he said it doesn't matter what hi-vis how many people u have on road, signs etc the owner of the stock is always liable. He said the only person who can stop traffic is a guard, so I said am I supposed to get a guard to get the cows across the road. He said could u load them in a trailer to get them across and this from a farmers union rep or he said could I afford an underpass and if not I may have to assess my situation, I could have killed him. So I went down to insurance and told them what guard and IFA man said that basically stock shouldn't be on road, they said that that doesn't sound right that u should slow down or stop if someone waves u down. Anyway they said they'll take care of the claims for jeep and heifer, i'll have to get the vet to sign some form which he said he would and another from the knacker. Insurance man is coming out to look at road tomorrow.

rangler1

frogloch wrote: »

Guard asked have u signs up I told him the driver passed by it. Vet was out and said u could put heifer in factory but half would be condemned he said she would never be right. Went to IFA office and man there was useless, he said it doesn't matter what hi-vis how many people u have on road, signs etc the owner of the stock is always liable. He said the only person who can stop traffic is a guard, so I said am I supposed to get a guard to get the cows across the road. He said could u load them in a trailer to get them across and this from a farmers union rep or he said could I afford an underpass and if not I may have to assess my situation, I could have killed him. So I went down to insurance and told them what guard and IFA man said that basically stock shouldn't be on road, they said that that doesn't sound right that u should slow down or stop if someone waves u down. Anyway they said they'll take care of the claims for jeep and heifer, i'll have to get the vet to sign some form which he said he would and another from the knacker. Insurance man is coming out to look at road tomorrow.

Are they going to pay on it, If they are you must be liable and the IFA guy was right

on the river

rangler1 wrote: »

Are they going to pay on it, If they are you must be liable and the IFA guy was right

Lads the best advice is to move livestock at quiet times.

Deepsouthwest

rangler1 wrote: »

Are they going to pay on it, If they are you must be liable and the IFA guy was right

I'm sorry but the IFA guy is wrong, we already saw earlier in this thread that the law says a man moving cattle can stop traffic. And really the best he could come up with to let cattle across the road was to load them into a trailer and let them out on the other side, how practical is that?

rangler1

on the river wrote: »

Lads the best advice is to move livestock at quiet times.

Most farmers are avoiding putting livestock on roads now, see last weeks journal where the farmer put a road beside the main road....using a trailer here for years.

jt65

op I have speed read the posts here & some advise is inaccurate especially from the IFA guy

best do as advised earlier and speak to you solicitor