Why is Aer Lingus so expensive ?

ewan whose army

So I am a GA pilot in Ireland (I fly the Arrow EI-EDR) but I am fairly ignorant of the crux of the Commercial operation, apart from Flight Crew and maintenance (being a Human Factors expert by profession)

Anyway I am going to see my boyfriend in Canada at the end of June, and I went on skyscanner and almost laughed at the price of their much publicised Toronto route - €1050 return!

Considering I got return with United for €480 I wonder why they are so incredibly expensive

billy few mates

They certainly seem to be the most expensive Trans Atlantic carrier out of Dublin for the last couple of years, I always tried to use them whenever I've gone to the states but for about the last two years I just can't justify the extra cost. Recently I was shopping around for a five night trip to New York for two people, I was flexible on the dates so tried a number of options, on almost every date I looked at EI were approx €500 to €1000 more expensive than the next nearest competitor and on one occasion they were €1800 more expensive for the exact same trip (flights and hotel). In the end we decided to go with American Airlines and put the money we saved towards the shopping...!

Razor44

Infairness you're booking a flight for June in june, its going to cost quite a bit. So that doesnt help. United would have more seats available over all on the route.keeping the price down. It would be a transfer as well with United

From my limited knowledge, there would be others here who can answer better then me

donvito99

Well the Toronto flights are well loaded. €1050 is the price of convenience and what people are willing to pay.

A Dub in Glasgo

Are the AL & United flights direct?

crosstownk

I got return flights DUB to YYZ with EI for July for two adults and two children for €2,500. Although I booked it in February. I was happy with the price - especially considering DUB to JFK was €2,000 more for the same dates.

BuffyBot

Airline pricing is a science in itself. As pointed out, you left it late to book which generally tends to be more expensive but there will be many factors at play.

L1011

Because they're popular. You're also flying on a connection rather than direct if using United, people pay for convenience.

jamo2oo9

Flying direct tends to be a premium when flying out of Ireland

billie1b

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Flying direct tends to be a premium when flying out of Ireland

Premium prices for not so premium airlines

Jamie2k9

Flying the last few days in June is one of the busiest weeks to fly out of Ireland and already said booking in June isn't exactly sensible. EI offer best fares to early birds!

However EI do have fares of 344 each way end of June so if you could of got it much cheaper direct if you were flexible.

bbbaldy

It wont help you but the problem is that the low cost efficient short haul Airlines have not broken into the long haul market yet. When the likes of Easy Jet and Ryanair start doing trans Atlantic a lot of the flag carrier airlines will be in a lot of bother. Good for the consumer but bad for employees of Aer Lingus, BA, etc.

L1011

bbbaldy wrote: »

It wont help you but the problem is that the low cost efficient short haul Airlines have not broken into the long haul market yet. When the likes of Easy Jet and Ryanair start doing trans Atlantic a lot of the flag carrier airlines will be in a lot of bother. Good for the consumer but bad for employees of Aer Lingus, BA, etc.

Their cost base doesn't work on longhaul, that's why they haven't "broken in" - they know there's no point.

Low cost longhaul has never worked, and it has been tried by people who know what they're doing (Tony Fernandez for instance). Easyjet will never do TATL. Ryanair will never do TATL in their current form.

leeroybrown

That Aer Lingus flight to Toronto is heavily subscribed and Air Canada run a number of connecting options using it that are very cheaply priced and popular. The prices you see probably reflect the fact that Aer Lingus can easily fill that plane and make more money selling most of the last section of the seats at large profit.

bbbaldy

MYOB wrote: »

Their cost base doesn't work on longhaul, that's why they haven't "broken in" - they know there's no point.

Low cost longhaul has never worked, and it has been tried by people who know what they're doing (Tony Fernandez for instance). Easyjet will never do TATL. Ryanair will never do TATL in their current form.

The Long Haul and Short Haul model are of course very different, does that mean they are not able to use this model or interested or able to break into this market.
I have worked for both budget and flag carrier airlines and can tell you that the flag carriers, while pulling their socks up in a big way in recent years, are still a long way away from the efficiencies and cost savings that the budget carriers can provide. When the budget airlines feel there is enough money to be made in long haul routes to justify the investment in long haul aircraft, they will change completely the cost of long haul routes for the consumer.

L1011

bbbaldy wrote: »

The Long Haul and Short Haul model are of course very different, does that mean they are not able to use this model or interested or able to break into this market.
I have worked for both budget and flag carrier airlines and can tell you that the flag carriers, while pulling their socks up in a big way in recent years, are still a long way away from the efficiencies and cost savings that the budget carriers can provide. When the budget airlines feel there is enough money to be made in long haul routes to justify the investment in long haul aircraft, they will change completely the cost of long haul routes for the consumer.

Laker. Globespan. Zoom. AirAsiaX. It has been tried, and it doesn't work. Easyjet or Ryanair trying it won't make it work either.

bbbaldy

MYOB wrote: »

Laker. Globespan. Zoom. AirAsiaX. It has been tried, and it doesn't work. Easyjet or Ryanair trying it won't make it work either.

Wow you must be an airline guru, lets not try it so. . Sorry I spoke.

Calina

One of the key reasons that long haul doesn't work is because there is a practical limit on the number of sectors the plane can fly per day. Put simply, you might send a short haul plane on an extra return flight per day compared to the historic norm, so it is earning you more money.

You can't do really do this with long haul flights unless you can do something like one long haul flight plus a short haul with the same aircraft. If your plane is based in Dublin and your long haul flight is something like roughly 8 hours each way, you will never get more than one rotation out of the plane per day on the long haul side. Short haul loco was built originally on getting more rotations out of the aircraft. Aer Lingus occasionally use the larger planes on an extra short haul rotation but it's not something that you can be guaranteed to get benefit out of either. It's a balancing act of the cost of using the larger plane, and whether you can reliably fill it at a fare base that will cover those costs.

Norwegian are having a go at some form of low cost transatlantic using an Irish AOC. They are having regulatory issues and issues with unions related to not wanting to pay local Norwegian labour costs. They may not wind up succeeding either.

billy few mates

While there may be no LoCo carriers on the Atlantic it is still possible to to fly trans Atlantic at a reasonable price but just not with Aer Lingus. You can save yourself a few bob by flying with any of the American carriers and even more if you don't mind a connecting flight.

ewan whose army

MYOB wrote: »

Their cost base doesn't work on longhaul, that's why they haven't "broken in" - they know there's no point.

Low cost longhaul has never worked, and it has been tried by people who know what they're doing (Tony Fernandez for instance). Easyjet will never do TATL. Ryanair will never do TATL in their current form.

Has it really been tried much though.

People keep on referencing Laker and his DC-10 Skytrains however that was in the days of protectionism and prior to deregulation.

Although didn't Virgin start off as a Low Cost model, but now its full service and a ticket on its "upper" class costs thousands ?

My parents did go to New York from Newcastle on Jet2 who have a couple of ETOPS certified 752 they brought from the bankruptcy of Zoom but it was a charter and they are not really a proper transatlantic carrier, but apparently 7 hours in a low cost configured 752 (not the AVOD etc. that I will get on Untied's) with no free food etc. got monotonous and boring very quickly.

Also it didn't go well with them, one of the 3 autopilots failed so they had to divert to Goose Bay in Canada to fix it

People are obsessed with RyanAtlantic though, you get the rumour they are negotiating the purchase of 787s or something every now and then (why would you need a 787 to go across the pond when a much cheaper A330 or 763 would do it). Maybe the new generation the 787 and A350 may make it feasible since they are incredibly efficient.

ewan whose army

billy few mates wrote: »

While there may be no LoCo carriers on the Atlantic it is still possible to to fly trans Atlantic at a reasonable price but just not with Aer Lingus. You can save yourself a few bob by flying with any of the American carriers and even more if you don't mind a connecting flight.

Thats exactly what I did. Hence United

My BF did fly with that cheap Air Canada spinoff Rougé though he said it was about the same as what I payed

L1011

ewan whose army wrote: »

Has it really been tried much though.

Its been tried enough that people now realise that its a money pit not worth trying any further. Jet2 shopping charters aren't comparable to operating an actual scheduled service.

ewan whose army

The taxes and charges are itemised

I can't believe this - September the 11th Security Fee - $4.00

WTF

Tenger

ewan whose army wrote: »

.......I went on skyscanner and almost laughed at the price of their much publicised Toronto route - €1050 return!

Considering I got return with United for €480 I wonder why they are so incredibly expensive

Its supply and demand. If EI were not selling tickets they would drop the price....perhaps all the 'value tickets' have already been sold and you only have the high fare's to choose from.

ewan whose army wrote: »

The taxes and charges are itemised

I can't believe this - September the 11th Security Fee - $4.00

WTF

That's the TSA for you. All flights into the US receive a special TSA approved security search before boarding. Also all passengers out of DUB go thru a secondary search process before they board the aircraft.

Tenger

bbbaldy wrote: »

Wow you must be an airline guru, lets not try it so. . Sorry I spoke.

bbbaldy.....you may not like the answer you got from MYOB. However no need to react so strongly.

The fact is that Lo-Cost Long Haul has been tried numerous times and so far has been unsuccessful. In the future a present carrier or a new entrant may succeed in this niche

owenc

ewan whose army wrote: »

So I am a GA pilot in Ireland (I fly the Arrow EI-EDR) but I am fairly ignorant of the crux of the Commercial operation, apart from Flight Crew and maintenance (being a Human Factors expert by profession)

Anyway I am going to see my boyfriend in Canada at the end of June, and I went on skyscanner and almost laughed at the price of their much publicised Toronto route - €1050 return!

Considering I got return with United for €480 I wonder why they are so incredibly expensive

I have to agree!

owenc

bbbaldy wrote: »

Wow you must be an airline guru, lets not try it so. . Sorry I spoke.

Aye seems to know everything Him.

billy few mates

Also it didn't go well with them, one of the 3 autopilots failed so they had to divert to Goose Bay in Canada to fix it

I doubt that....
(Not the diversion, just the reason for it)

lord lucan

owenc wrote: »

Aye seems to know everything Him.

A poster above was warned about making it personal,please heed that same warning.

nabanoba

ewan whose army wrote: »

The taxes and charges are itemised

I can't believe this - September the 11th Security Fee - $4.00

WTF

As well as being a wannabe pilot I work as a travel agent selling long-haul flights. The price of long-haul flights depends on 2 things, the first is season and the second is availability.

Your flights are expensive as you want to go in the Irish summer holidays, so obviously airlines up there prices from flights leaving Ireland at this time. Not all airlines are aware of Irish summer holidays, but Aer Lingus certainly are so will up the price. Flying via England where it's low-season and not summer holidays is obviously a lot cheaper. For evidence of this in action look at flights from GLA/EDI to DXB in early July where it is the Scottish holidays and not in England, then change the search to NCL to see how much you'd save by flying from England.

The second reason your flight is expensive is availability. Flights have different booking classes, the lowest being the cheapest with a set amount of seats available for that price. When these sell out you go up to the next price. Flights also become available for sale 331 days before departure and you've waited to 4 weeks beforehand to book so of course it's going to be expensive!

Finally the Aer Lingus flights are direct so will be more expensive. If you search from LHR to NYC with EI via DUB the price could very well be cheaper, due to it being less direct and increased competition. 'But that makes no sense as it's more flying' I hear you cry. Supply and demand baby!


As an aside yes that tax is 4$ for your extra security checks. Someone has to pay for them and it surely ain't going to be the airport!

A Dub in Glasgo

nabanoba wrote: »

Someone has to pay for them and it surely ain't going to be the airport!

Why not?