Random Running Questions

Snotty

Ceepo wrote: »

As someone who was running for over 20 years I could probably count on one had the amount of times I stretched before going for a run.
Despite what a lot of people say, you don't need to stretch before you run. Just start of easy and gradually build into your run.
There is no evidence to say that stretching before running prevents injury.

Ah OK, good to know. I do walk 5 minutes before jogging. Reason I was asking was I've felt a bit of tightness in my groin last 2 times out so though maybe some stretches would help that area

Slideways

As Creepo says, never stretch before a run. Ease into it.

Mrs is a physio. I sometimes do dynamic stretches after a run or between warm up and faster stuff.

eyrie

Snotty wrote: »

Ah OK, good to know. I do walk 5 minutes before jogging. Reason I was asking was I've felt a bit of tightness in my groin last 2 times out so though maybe some stretches would help that area

I do leg swings (front/back and sideways) when I think of it which helps warm up and mobility and takes about a minute max

kal7

Warm up doesn't mean always mean static stretches, by the way.

In one study, on elite athletes, was said to increase and not decrease injury. Hence everybody dropping static stretches.

I do believe static stretches have there place in rehab and sport though, just not immediately before intense exercise.

I sometimes do three dynamic movements before run.

1. Body twists with sprinting arms position, to turn spine and shoulders in exaggerated fashion, ie more than when I will do running.

2. Circle my hips, both ways.

3. Slow Lunges

I do these to get blood going, tendons moving, oil in joints circulating and literally get warmer, also to wake up nervous system.

Time taken for these about two minutes max, better than heading off doing nothing.

Those that say just ease into the run are also correct, but hard not to just go straight to a normal run pace from the get go, for many of us.

good luck with the running, enjoy it.

zico10

Any members of Tullamore Harriers on here? I’m not a member, so I wouldn’t have access to the track in any event. But assuming the track is closed to members, where are you doing “track” sessions right now? Are there any loops around the town that you’d recommend where you might do speed work? i.e. as flat as possible, no sharp/blind turns, little traffic, not many pedestrians, etc. 🤞

Omega28

Is it acheievable to get a sub 25 min for 5km in 3 months coming from 30 mins 5km?

ariana`

Omega28 wrote: »

Is it acheievable to get a sub 25 min for 5km in 3 months coming from 30 mins 5km?

There are many factors to consider but if someone has recently started running then it is not impossible for them to make big gains quite quickly in my experience.

I ran my first 5k event about 3-4 months after I started running in 29:48 (iirc) and exactly 4 months later I ran 25:01. So not quite your sub 25 in 3 months but not far off it either. The improvements since then have taken a lot longer and a lot more miles. It's low hanging fruit in the early days and will be different for everyone depending on their level of fitness starting off but to answer your question I think it's achievable for a new runner.

I should also add focussing on 5k time is not necessarily the ideal approach but that's a separate question...

wersal gummage

Omega28 wrote: »

Is it acheievable to get a sub 25 min for 5km in 3 months coming from 30 mins 5km?

Similar to last person....

I started couch to 5k last year around April, early 40s, had not exercised in a few years, had never ran before, had no speed in school etc, never played any sport to a high level or excelled, I'm well over 6 foot and around 100kg... I just give background so you're not comparing yourself to some young greyhound.

After about 7 weeks, so maybe late may/ early June I was running 5k in 30 mins, by around late July / August I ran it in just under 25 but I remember feeling like I was going to burst after that, I couldn't have ran another 100 metres, completely out of breath.... Also my legs, shins etc were sore for a few days so it was a bad idea to do that.... I haven't really worked on speed, have followed different garmin plans on my watch, lots of long slow runs, tempo runs, hills etc..... but difference is now that I'd run 15 km or more at around 4.30 pace, 5 min per km would now be my easy pace, my heart rate is lower at that rate and if I'm running hard, taking it back to 5min pace allows me to recover. So I know there's a big improvement when last summer I felt close to death at that pace. I would now run at 4min per km pace on a good when pushing myself, down to around 3.30 for really pushing myself but only can keep that up for 1km... Anyway, just to say yeah, those first few weeks / months probably biggest improvement, after that not so much. Try not to focus on 5km time so much, just follow a programme, get some steady kms done and then give the 5km a crack again in 12 weeks or something like that. I felt like a gimp doing 15km jogs at 6.30 pace etc but in hindsight I think that's the stuff that helped.

I'm still very much learning so not giving advice, but jsit my experience.

Omega28

I'm in my 30s and weigh 100kg at 6ft 1. I've always tried to keep fit by going to the gym, cycling, walking but not so much running. The most I ever ran was 22km when I was 21 years of age.

I use to do a lot of cycling but running is in a different league. I'm not following any plans, just going out when my body tells me to stop. I currently run at 6.30/45 min pace and feel like I'm going at a snails pace compared to others. My main concern is injury if I up my mileage too soon but I'm currently doing 45km per week.

Running 5km in 30 mins is hard for me. I'm trying to get a few longer runs in as well (8/9km) but I haven't done more than that. I've also not done any speed work.

partyguinness

Omega28 wrote: »

Is it acheievable to get a sub 25 min for 5km in 3 months coming from 30 mins 5km?

Absolutely. I started running at 37. Absolutely zero background (or talent) for running. Running was just a necessary evil at football training. Had not player any sport since 2010...got married, young kid, busy work and all the usual excuses.

Commenced January 2016 woefully unfit and by mid March I was runing 52 minute 10ks and 23-24min 5k. That was running just 2 twice a week up to 8k a time with a social running club (not athletics). Entered my first 10k that March and ran I think 52-53. Withing the year I had a sub 4hr marathon under my belt and that it down to 3:!2 and 19:29 5km all at the age of 42. So yes you can smash it.

But...I did alter my diet dramatically for the good and now 3 stone lighter.

Sorry just to add....I would aim for those 8-9k runs. It will make the 5k mentally easier. Paradoxically I would encourage you to train for a 10km and let the 5k take care of itself.

partyguinness

Slideways wrote: »

As Creepo says, never stretch before a run. Ease into it.

Mrs is a physio. I sometimes do dynamic stretches after a run or between warm up and faster stuff.

My running club always had us stretching after one very gentle lap of the track.

Now my coach (remote full time sports coach) just has me going straight into a 15min progressive warm up and then say, 60min steady and then a 15min progressive cool down. Even last marathon I just rocked up with no stretching or strides beforehand but I was given a progressive 8 min warmup at the start of the race built into Garmin.

Can't remember the last time I stretched..:o..but that does not mean it should not be done I hasten to add. Maybe a good foam roll of the quads once a week to get right in there..

Heat_Wave

My average HR BPM was 195 on a 5k run this evening and I felt it. Should I be concerned?

I’d consider myself to be very fit, btw.

token56

Heat_Wave wrote: »

My average HR BPM was 195 on a 5k run this evening and I felt it. Should I be concerned?

I’d consider myself to be very fit, btw.

How are you measuring your heart rate?

OOnegative

Heat_Wave wrote: »

My average HR BPM was 195 on a 5k run this evening and I felt it. Should I be concerned?

I’d consider myself to be very fit, btw.

Chest strap or Watch Hr??

Heat_Wave

Using a polar strap on my bicep

Ceepo

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Using a polar strap on my bicep

I have never wore this tyre of a monitor, so I can not say anything about them really. In general Polar were the learder when it came to HRM, but I would always be of the opinion that a chest strap is the most accurate.

To address your question, theres no way of knowing with asking other questions such as,
What is your max HR,
How hard were you running.
What do you consider "very fit"
What is your HR normally on a run..

Hannibal_Smith

Did you follow the advice in your thread?

If so and you're 'feeling it' go get it checked. I had a high heart rate for months and it turned out to be an overactive thyroid.

robinph

Ceepo wrote: »

I have never wore this tyre of a monitor, so I can not say anything about them really. In general Polar were the learder when it came to HRM, but I would always be of the opinion that a chest strap is the most accurate.

To address your question, theres no way of knowing with asking other questions such as,
What is your max HR,
How hard were you running.
What do you consider "very fit"
What is your HR normally on a run..

Don't forget... When did you last replace the battery in the monitor?

BeginnerRunner

robinph wrote: »

Don't forget... When did you last replace the battery in the monitor?

The OH1, the model the OP's referring to, is rechargeable so hopefully they're charging it regularly.

I have one, tho I use a chest strap now. Always found it to be reasonably reliable BUT it's an LED based system, similar to wrist HR.

It's definitely better, buuuuuuut I wouldn't put too much stock in the reading because it seems VERY high for a VERY long period of time.

partyguinness

Heat_Wave wrote: »

My average HR BPM was 195 on a 5k run this evening and I felt it. Should I be concerned?

I’d consider myself to be very fit, btw.

What are your normal readings?

Heat_Wave

Yes I did follow the advice in my previous thread and have been running 5k on the treadmill at a speed of 5.5 mph which takes me roughly 35mins. My average HR for this works out at about 158-165 bpm.

When I run 10k on the treadmill, I also run at a slow speed (5.3mph) and this takes roughly 1hour and 10mins, and my average heart rate is approx. 160-167 bpm.

However, when I run outdoors, my HR goes from my resting HR (60) to 190 within 2 minutes and it stays there for the entire run. Last night’s 5k took me 27mins and I physically couldn’t run any faster. I was wheezing during it, and when I stopped, my HR dropped down to 100bpm within a minute or two.

According to the Max HR calculation formula (220-age), mine should be 190bpm, but I have it set to 211bpm as my trainer felt this was more accurate given how long I was spending in the red zone during his classes. It was a lot of trialling and testing to reach this happy/medium figure.

My understanding though, is that someone cannot spend more than approx. 5mins in the red zone, as that’s when you’re at your max. However I spent my entire run in the red zone last night at a steady 195bpm. Is this even possible?

BeginnerRunner

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Yes I did follow the advice in my previous thread and have been running 5k on the treadmill at a speed of 5.5 mph which takes me roughly 35mins. My average HR for this works out at about 158-165 bpm.

When I run 10k on the treadmill, I also run at a slow speed (5.3mph) and this takes roughly 1hour and 10mins, and my average heart rate is approx. 160-163 bpm.

However, when I run outdoors, my HR goes from my resting HR (60) to 190 within 2 minutes and it stays there for the entire run. Last night’s 5k took me 27mins and I physically couldn’t run any faster. I was wheezing during it, and when I stopped, my HR dropped down to 100bpm within a minute or two.

According to the Max HR calculation formula (220-age), mine should be 195bpm, but I have it set to 211bpm as my trainer felt this was more accurate given how long I was spending in the red zone during his classes. It was a lot of trialling and testing to reach this happy/medium figure.

My understanding though, is that someone cannot spend more than approx. 5mins in the red zone, as that’s when you’re at your max. However I spent my entire run in the red zone last night at a steady 195bpm. Is this even possible?

Few things at play here....

5.5mph on threadmill is roughly a 35 minute 5k time. If you just ran 5k in 27 mins outside, your pacing is way off so it's not surprising your HR shot up high.

It sounds like you truly ran it flat out, so maybe you were up to an actual 190bpm if 211 is a legit max. Some people have higher max HRs, it's all genetic. You can't do anything about that.

190 is only just about 90% of 211, assuming that's accurate, so operating at those levels for a 5k isn't entirely unrealistic.

BUT seeing it go from 190 to 100 inside 2 minutes is an incredible heart rate recovery (HRR) number which is fairly unrealistic. Usually a 50-60bpm 2 minute HRR is considered excellent.

I think the most correct assumptions in all this are;

- you've got an exceptionally high HR max (possible)
- your current training is at an appropriate level of that max (possible - approx. 75% MHR is a fair range to train at)
- you went balls out on the 5k and saw your HR spike as a result (possible)
- your OH1 might be giving inaccurate readings (possible)

Also worth noting, you may want to revaluate how fit your consider yourself if a 27 minute 5km was truly max effort. Not because there's anything wrong with it - I say that as someone who wouldn't be much faster - but because it can skew your perception of the numbers and what they mean.

Heat_Wave

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

Also worth noting, you may want to revaluate how fit your consider yourself if a 27 minute 5km was truly max effort. Not because there's anything wrong with it - I say that as someone who wouldn't be much faster - but because it can skew your perception of the numbers and what they mean.

Regarding this point, I cycle 80-100k at a time, twice per week. I just checked my stats there, and my most recent cycle involved Howth Summit. I could do Howth Summit several times in a row, no problem. My HR peaked at 195bpm, but my average HR was 125bpm at almost a racing pace.

Could it be a case that I am “just not a runner”? I don’t want to give it up because I enjoy it, but I do worry when I see such a high, steady HR for such a long period of time.

Perhaps I should do a stress test to establish my exact HR Max?

robinph

All sounds like things pointing to inaccurate sensor reporting on the numbers, or your hr is a bit of an outlier.

The sensor shouldn't be reading as a flat line. How much variation in the hr is there during the 5km run? There should be a bit of variation along the line and it should trend gradually upwards over the duration of the run.
Also, whilst you may have been running flat out and felt it impossible to go any quicker, outside of the end of a race, or getting chased by a lion, you're not going to hit those high percentage of hr numbers in any solo training run. Unless you are again some outlier such as James Cracknall who didn't have an off switch so would end up pushing past the red lines regularly during training.

Sustaining those levels is very, very hard, and so the numbers suggest a technology ssue to me.

BeginnerRunner

Heat_Wave wrote: »

Regarding this point, I cycle 80-100k at a time, twice per week. I just checked my stats there, and my most recent cycle involved Howth Summit. I could do Howth Summit several times in a row, no problem. My HR peaked at 195bpm, but my average HR was 125bpm at almost a racing pace.

Could it be a case that I am “just not a runner”? I don’t want to give it up because I enjoy it, but I do worry when I see such a high, steady HR for such a long period of time.

Perhaps I should do a stress test to establish my exact HR Max?

You're just not running fit right now, IMO. It's a completely different beast to being all around fit.

It's normal for cycling HR to be lower than running. I couldn't tell you by how much but 125bpm seems on the low side.

I'm wondering if the arm movement of the running is causing some senor misfire now.

And just for context - I only started running in October. Mighta got around 5km in just under 30 minutes. But I'd rowed 2km in 6m 45s.

Anything under 7 minutes for 2km on rowing is fairly significant, probably the equivalent of 19-21 minutes for 5km running, maybe faster.

But because I'm heavier (95kg) and haven't got the miles in my legs, running is way behind. Doesn't mean I'm not a runner or I should give up, just that it's gonna take some time and focus to bring up, just like you

Slideways

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not. Very fit for a 30 year old and running that slow with that high a heart rate is not compatible to be honest.

partyguinness

Slideways wrote: »

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not. Very fit for a 30 year old and running that slow with that high a heart rate is not compatible to be honest.

Must be a malfunction or an Apple watch all over the place- nobody averages 195bpm for a 5km.

Sure it may very well spike toward the end and hit 195bpm as you fall over the line but certainly not 195 as an average.

whatnext

partyguinness wrote: »

Must be a malfunction or an Apple watch all over the place- nobody averages 195bpm for a 5km.

Sure it may very well spike toward the end and hit 195bpm as you fall over the line but certainly not 195 as an average.

I’m the wrong side of mid 40s. In reasonable shape I think and wouldn’t be far off that. I’ve seen the quack about it because I was a bit concerned and they just said everyone is different. I had a cardiac assessment under stress (on a treadmill) and my heart can go from 50 resting to 200 and recover to below 100 in accordance with what ever they were expecting. I wasn’t interested in the science or explanations just wanted to know could I carry on as normal and the said yes, (with all the usual don’t sue me caveats. )

Heat_Wave

Slideways wrote: »

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not. Very fit for a 30 year old and running that slow with that high a heart rate is not compatible to be honest.

If you look at my profile history you'll see that I am clearly not a troll. I am a frequent poster to both the cycling and running forums. I am seeking advice here because I am fairly new to running and am trying to establish how the whole HR zones work/what's considered normal/abnormal.

Also as BeginnerRunner said, he/she can row 2k in 6m 45s, but it takes him/her 30mins to run 5k, so it's a little unfair for you to make the above assumption.

whatnext wrote: »

I’m the wrong side of mid 40s. In reasonable shape I think and wouldn’t be far off that. I’ve seen the quack about it because I was a bit concerned and they just said everyone is different. I had a cardiac assessment under stress (on a treadmill) and my heart can go from 50 resting to 200 and recover to below 100 in accordance with what ever they were expecting. I wasn’t interested in the science or explanations just wanted to know could I carry on as normal and the said yes, (with all the usual don’t sue me caveats. )

This is very reassuring to hear, thank you! I went to my GP this morning and she is not concerned but is referring me to a cardiologist for a stress test for peace of mind.

Thanks all for the advice. I think I will focus on running at a much slower pace for now until I increase my aerobic fitness/have the stress test done.

Murph_D

I will be astonished if this doesn't turn out to be a sensor issue. Why not borrow a chest strap and see what kind of readings you get. Anyway the cardiologist stress test should give you pretty accurate numbers. Don't be afraid to let whoever's conducting the test know that you may have an unusually high HR - anytime I've done one, the attending nurse has started to get a little antsy when the numbers creep up over 170.

And forget the 220-age 'rule of thumb'. It's inaccurate and meaningless for many (most?) of us.