Dublin Bus Summer Schedules

LXFlyer

Just to flag this as some routes have fairly significant frequency changes.


Summer schedules will operate this year as below from Monday June 16th to Friday August 22nd.

Introduction of Summer Timetables


Friday, May 30, 2014






Dublin Bus wishes to advise customers that Summer Timetables will be implemented on the below routes from Monday 16th June to Friday 22nd August 2014.
Please note changes are only on Monday to Friday departures.
Route 9 Summer Timetable
Route 11 Summer Timetable
Route 13 Summer Timetable
Route 15 Summer Timetable
Route 15a Summer Timetable
Route 15b Summer Timetable
Route 16 Summer Timetable
Route 25a Summer Timetable
Route 25b Summer Timetable
Route 25x Summer Timetable
Route 27 Summer Timetable
Route 37 Summer Timetable
Route 39 Summer Timetable
Route 39a Summer Timetable
Route 46a Summer Timetable
Route 66x Summer Timetable
Route 70 Summer Timetable
Route 77a Summer Timetable
Route 83 Summer Timetable
Route 122 Summer Timetable
Route 123 Summer Timetable

ballooba

Are these decreased or increased frequency?

Boulevardier

I have seen people say that these are decreased frequencies for the most part. I have not had the time to compare them myself.

LXFlyer

Decreased, to reflect the lower numbers travelling given that the schools and colleges are off.

Boulevardier

Will any routes increase, e.g. the 145 to Summery Bray or the 33 to Sunny Skerries?

LXFlyer

Alas no.

The only changes are to Monday to Friday services, weekend services remain the same as normal.

coylemj

They have helpfully left the original timetables on their website so for each of the affected routes you can compare the previous schedule to the summer timetable.

Example: http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/?searchtype=route&searchquery=13

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

They have helpfully left the original timetables on their website so for each of the affected routes you can compare the previous schedule to the summer timetable.

Example: http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/?searchtype=route&searchquery=13

Well given that the current schedules remain operative for another two weeks, I would hope that they would! ;-)

AlekSmart

The "Summer Schedule" arrangements have to be viewed in the context of what they are,part of the Company's cost-saving plan arrived at after a somewhat long and involved dispute last year.

It has been noted that in the interim,the overall situation is altering,with small yet significant increases in business across many of these routes.

In addition,with the College Green issue beginning next week,it may well not be a quite opportune time to be removing duties from those routes which travel through the City Centre.

All of these alterations involve reductions in duties,and vehicles on the routes concerned,with the theory being that No Schools=Less Business.

My gut feeling is rather than reducing service levels,we needed to be working to identify ways to get those Children travelling on the bus during the Holidays,something which the new Child Leapcard arrangements would appear ideally suited for...but the new Leapcard arrangements don't commence until the New Term...nice bit of cross-fertilization there ....:(

The Children and School Staff may indeed be on holidays,but that does not mean they have been packed into a deep-freeze for three months....They remain out there,with some level of mobility requirement,which we now appear content to tolerate,rather than stimulate.

For me,the combination of a significant Reduction in Peak Vehicle Requirement + College Green = Potential Disaster

LXFlyer

To be fair Alek on most of the routes there is plenty spare capacity to cope with the children during the day, which is when they will be out and about, rather than in the morning peak.

The peak loads drop significantly during the summer time and trying to suggest otherwise is, I think now, being a tad economical, shall we say?

No more than at Christmas when the Saturday schedules were implemented, this is trying to align the services with the demand for them, which is obviously lower with the schools and colleges closed.

Also, I'd rather see the company demonstrating that it is trying to continue to cut costs which these measures will do.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair Alek on most of the routes there is plenty spare capacity to cope with the children during the day, which is when they will be out and about, rather than in the morning peak.

The peak loads drop significantly during the summer time and trying to suggest otherwise is, I think now, being a tad economical, shall we say?

No more than at Christmas when the Saturday schedules were implemented, this is trying to align the services with the demand for them, which is obviously lower with the schools and colleges closed.

Also, I'd rather see the company demonstrating that it is trying to continue to cut costs which these measures will do.

My perspective is,another way of "Cutting Costs" would be to set about Increasing Revenue.

Nobody,certainly not me, is suggesting that peak-loading don't drop during the School Holiday Period,however I am suggesting this need not always have to be accepted as a"Given".

I feel that,in the absence of the NTA or any other agency being bothered,then BAC itself needs to get innovative on attracting,developing and retaining new Youth-Centred business.

The Summer Language Student business is a case in point,with nobody as yet being able to answer whether BAC had sought information on the Numbers of Foreign Students booked in to loations such as DCU/UCD this year..?

I've no particular beef with all this "Service Alignment" of which you speak,however where we differ appears to be on what should come first...the downward alignment or the attempt to stimulate business upward ?

The worst-case scenario,which I see a great risk of developing,is where the College Green-BXD Work combines with the reduced availability of resources to create a perfect-storm of negative customer experiences with all that follows on from it !

Hopefully,it'll all be grand.....;)

LXFlyer

I think you start to do that Alek when finances are back under control - then you rebuild the product.

Right now the key is to get back into an even keel.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

I think you start to do that Alek when finances are back under control - then you rebuild the product.

Right now the key is to get back into an even keel.

All well and good,if that even keel is quantifed and accepted...however with the Government still fixated upon "Dominant Market Position" as it's prime motivator,it's highly unlikely that any set of BAC accounts will ever be permitted to show the company on an even enough keel to allow it to become more assertive.

The product itself is remarkably resilient,and still retains highly desirable attributes such as Brand Recognition and Customer Regard (:))

The struggle may well be far more about attempting to protect it's current product's inherent value from predatory asset-strippers than any rebuilding in the future.

dfx-

Boulevardier wrote: »

I have seen people say that these are decreased frequencies for the most part. I have not had the time to compare them myself.

When the 46A (the golden egg) decreases its frequency, all routes are vulnerable..

Aard

Has there been a summer schedule in other years?

howiya

Are these summer schedules designed to take into account long waiting times for a second driver on cross city routes?

the groutch

if the changes are due to falloff due to school holidays, then why are they being implemented 2 weeks before the primary schools finish up?

Stevek101

Aard wrote: »

Has there been a summer schedule in other years?

Nope but they did try to do it last year. That lead to the strike which ultimately led to the deal with summer/winter schedules being allowed.

Dublin Bus wishes to advise customers that Summer Timetables will be implemented on the following Routes 7d, 11, 13, 16, 25a/b/x, 66x, 83, 123 and 130 on Tuesday 6th August 2013. For details please see the links below:

LXFlyer

Aard wrote: »

Has there been a summer schedule in other years?

To be fair, the principle of reduced services during summer (along with the Christmas schedules) were only agreed with unions last year, despite being something that the company wanted to introduce for some time.


We all know that in the summer loadings are considerably reduced, and if they can balance the service to reflect that I would suggest that is good business sense.

Aard

Oh I wasn't saying it was or wasn't a good idea, just that I'd never heard of a summer service before.

It appears to make sense. Will it coincide with the leaving cert though? It would be a shame if the changes were such that getting to or from exams was made more difficult. Maybe the changes aren't that drastic.

StreetLight

Another thing to note is that the Summer Schedule will reflect, to a degree, the reduced staffing levels of drivers, as they are rostered for their annual leave during the summer months. Bus users may remember some pretty terrible dropping of departures on many routes last year, due to 'staff shortages'.

VG31

There were similar summer timetables last year.

LXFlyer

VG31 wrote: »

There were similar summer timetables last year.

No there weren't. They were never introduced.

VG31

lxflyer wrote: »

No there weren't. They were never introduced.

They were on the DB website last year.

StreetLight

VG31 wrote: »

They were on the DB website last year.

As lxflyer has already said, they were never introduced.

LXFlyer

VG31 wrote: »

They were on the DB website last year.

Indeed they were, but if you recall the unions refused to work them and we had a day of industrial action.


They never came into operation.

adamski8

Holy crap 83 route has an hour wait between buses in the morning. That makes thing really hard for people traveling to work when we have no alternative buses up the northside.

LXFlyer

No it doesn't - the timetables read across the page not downwards.

VG31

adamski8 wrote: »

Holy crap 83 route has an hour wait between buses in the morning. That makes thing really hard for people traveling to work when we have no alternative buses up the northside.

I don't see any hour gaps on the new 83 timetable.

adamski8

lxflyer wrote: »

No it doesn't - the timetables read across the page not downwards.

Ah yes your right.

thomasj

Aard wrote: »

Has there been a summer schedule in other years?

They used to do it with the 39A back when it was only a one way route only operating in the morning .

When it came to the summer break they would reduce or cancel them their reasoning being with the school holidays in place it would be less journey time for the 39.

MOH

Only came across this yesterday while looking on the DB website for info about the Luas works. Not particularly well advertised - it's not even linked to from the Luas works news article, which mentions that certain routes could be subject to delays but doesn't bother mentioning that many of them are being cut by up to 20%.

I already have to go to a further stop than usual to have a better chance of getting on my bus in the morning, and even then it frequently passes full. Then there's the fun of changing driver in town, especially at the new stop on Eden Quay when you have the original diver wandering up and down the quay trying to find his replacement before they eventually work out he's standing across the river at the old bus stop.

It's a long cycle, but if I end up taking much longer to get to work as a result of this, I'll be gone as a customer and I won't be back.

LXFlyer

MOH wrote: »

Only came across this yesterday while looking on the DB website for info about the Luas works. Not particularly well advertised - it's not even linked to from the Luas works news article, which mentions that certain routes could be subject to delays but doesn't bother mentioning that many of them are being cut by up to 20%.

I already have to go to a further stop than usual to have a better chance of getting on my bus in the morning, and even then it frequently passes full. Then there's the fun of changing driver in town, especially at the new stop on Eden Quay when you have the original diver wandering up and down the quay trying to find his replacement before they eventually work out he's standing across the river at the old bus stop.

It's a long cycle, but if I end up taking much longer to get to work as a result of this, I'll be gone as a customer and I won't be back.

As I said above peak loadings drop significantly in the summer and no one can claim otherwise - this is something that frankly has been long overdue. There is no point in running half empty buses around if you can meet demand with a reduced level of service.

The changes in most of the schedules are not that significant to be honest.

In terms of advertising the changes online what exactly do you want them to do? It's the second news story on the website, they've tweeted it and they've put it on their facebook page.

As for the driver being in the wrong place - that sounds like someone made an honest mistake - that can happen.

Devilman40k

lxflyer wrote: »

As I said above peak loadings drop significantly in the summer and no one can claim otherwise - this is something that frankly has been long overdue. There is no point in running half empty buses around if you can meet demand with a reduced level of service.

Case in point 83 loadings every morning are pretty good, pretty much full inbound from Kimmage. This mornings 8am was empty until it reached Rathmines and even then the loading was pretty light.

Summer timetables are a good idea, saves the company money at a time when they need to and doesn't impact too greatly on the service

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

In terms of advertising the changes online what exactly do you want them to do? It's the second news story on the website, they've tweeted it and they've put it on their facebook page.

In Los Angeles, buses have posters indicating changes in timetable to the route they're on so passengers can be informed of changes without having to check the website. They also have flyers with the timetable that passengers can take away.

No urban public transport passenger I know checks the operators website on a regular basis, especially not for commuter routes that they take every day.

LXFlyer

Well we may yet see that - the changes are nearly 2 weeks away so I'd suggest giving out flyers is a bit ahead of the game.

When Network Direct was being implemented they did precisely that - gave out leaflets on the buses.

As for not checking the website, I'd concur, but more and more are following them on twitter or facebook.

MOH

lxflyer wrote: »

As I said above peak loadings drop significantly in the summer and no one can claim otherwise - this is something that frankly has been long overdue. There is no point in running half empty buses around if you can meet demand with a reduced level of service.
The changes in most of the schedules are not that significant to be honest.

I'm not claiming otherwise. I haven't tried to get to work yet on a summer schedule, it might be fine. But I have my doubts.
The two cross city buses I can get to work have had their intervals increased by 20%. If there's a corresponding drop in demand, great.

In terms of advertising the changes online what exactly do you want them to do? It's the second news story on the website, they've tweeted it and they've put it on their facebook page.

Advertise it somewhere other than online? Maybe on their buses?
The next news item will push it off the main page of the site. I'd imagine most commuters don't regularly check the DB news page, or follow them on facebook.

Julius Seizure

markpb wrote: »

In Los Angeles, buses have posters indicating changes in timetable to the route they're on so passengers can be informed of changes without having to check the website. They also have flyers with the timetable that passengers can take away.

No urban public transport passenger I know checks the operators website on a regular basis, especially not for commuter routes that they take every day.

Admittedly Dublin Bus don't have real timetables, only when the bus leaves the terminus so a lot of people who wouldn't keep track of exact times won't notice a difference but it still gives them somehting to complain about; I'd say most just check RTPI and get on the next bus.

LXFlyer

Julius Seizure wrote: »

Admittedly Dublin Bus don't have real timetables, only when the bus leaves the terminus so a lot of people who wouldn't keep track of exact times won't notice a difference but it still gives them somehting to complain about; I'd say most just check RTPI and get on the next bus.

Oh yes they do.
Go to www.a-b.ie and click on "Find a timetable", select your route and you will find a full stop-by-stop timetable.

LXFlyer

MOH wrote: »

I'm not claiming otherwise. I haven't tried to get to work yet on a summer schedule, it might be fine. But I have my doubts.
The two cross city buses I can get to work have had their intervals increased by 20%. If there's a corresponding drop in demand, great.

Advertise it somewhere other than online? Maybe on their buses?
The next news item will push it off the main page of the site. I'd imagine most commuters don't regularly check the DB news page, or follow them on facebook.

Well to be fair, you can also now sign up for a Dublin Bus newsletter, specifying the routes that you use, to keep up to date of any changes.


http://dublinbus.ie/About-Us/Sign-Up-For-Our-Newsletter/

Julius Seizure

lxflyer wrote: »

Oh yes they do.
Go to www.a-b.ie and click on "Find a timetable", select your route and you will find a full stop-by-stop timetable.

Pretty sure there was some full long argument over this before but those timetables have no meaning, also drivers don't even get them so they really don't come into play much.

LXFlyer

Julius Seizure wrote: »

Pretty sure there was some full long argument over this before but those timetables have no meaning, also drivers don't even get them so they really don't come into play much.

They are what the RTPI is based on, and the NTA journey planner so they have to be reasonably accurate.

I was the one having the argument. Just because they are not on the driver boards does not mean that they are not reasonable approximations.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

They are what the RTPI is based on, and the NTA journey planner so they have to be reasonably accurate.

I was the one having the argument. Just because they are not on the driver boards does not mean that they are not reasonable approximations.

But does mean that they cannot be trusted. If a bus arrives early at a stop, the driver won't know and won't wait. If you arrive on time, the bus could be gone. The timetables on NJP are a guide and nothing else.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

But does mean that they cannot be trusted. If a bus arrives early at a stop, the driver won't know and won't wait. If you arrive on time, the bus could be gone. The timetables on NJP are a guide and nothing else.

It is also not right to say they have "no meaning".


They're the best estimate available.

KD345

lxflyer wrote: »

They're the best estimate available.

You have hit the nail on the head. That's all they are, an estimation.

I really wish DB would stop using intermediate timetables on street. If they do wish to do it, they should be clear that the times are just estimation.

For example, if a passenger sees that a bus leaves "from D'Olier Street" at 10:20, then it should leave there at that time. Not telling passengers that their bus actually left Finglas at 09:40 and made good time on its journey so passed D'Olier Street at 10:10 is just wrong.

Of course, if it clearly stated that the times displayed were "estimated times" then the passenger would know to allow room for error.

LXFlyer

KD345 wrote: »

You have hit the nail on the head. That's all they are, an estimation.

I really wish DB would stop using intermediate timetables on street. If they do wish to do it, they should be clear that the times are just estimation.

For example, if a passenger sees that a bus leaves "from D'Olier Street" at 10:20, then it should leave there at that time. Not telling passengers that their bus actually left Finglas at 09:40 and made good time on its journey so passed D'Olier Street at 10:10 is just wrong.

Of course, if it clearly stated that the times displayed were "estimated times" then the passenger would know to allow room for error.

I'd agree with you on the intermediate on-street timetables - they are fiction.


But the ones on www.a-b.ie are the AVLC control schedules, which I accept are not on the drivers' boards, but they are not at the same time going to be far off the mark.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

I'd agree with you on the intermediate on-street timetables - they are fiction.


But the ones on www.a-b.ie are the AVLC control schedules, which I accept are not on the drivers' boards, but they are not at the same time going to be far off the mark.

I know it seems like I'm being anal about this about a timetable is either a minimum guarantee of when a bus will arrive (accepting that it might be late) or it's not. What we have is a nice story about roughly when a bus might arrive. Yes it's useful but it's not a timetable. You know that it's an estimation but the average person going to the website won't know and could be forgiven for mistaking it for a timetable.

PadelCreekMan

markpb wrote: »

But does mean that they cannot be trusted. If a bus arrives early at a stop, the driver won't know and won't wait. If you arrive on time, the bus could be gone. The timetables on NJP are a guide and nothing else.

The Journey planner app overwrites the scheduled time with Real time once the bus is in service. That's why you sometimes see different scheduled and expected times. In such a case the bus is maybe a little late. The schedule times at stops are not timing points. If they were time points and a bus was early, passengers would sit there until the scheduled time before the driver would proceed. Stop schedules change frequently to reflect different seasons and traffic volumes.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

I know it seems like I'm being anal about this about a timetable is either a minimum guarantee of when a bus will arrive (accepting that it might be late) or it's not. What we have is a nice story about roughly when a bus might arrive. Yes it's useful but it's not a timetable. You know that it's an estimation but the average person going to the website won't know and could be forgiven for mistaking it for a timetable.

We seem to be unique in this in Dublin - it's utterly daft.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

We seem to be unique in this in Dublin - it's utterly daft.

The funny thing is that in my years of using DB services, I could easily write an intermediate timetable for the routes I used because a lot of them were reasonably reliable (as much as they could be).

PadelCreekMan

lxflyer wrote: »

We seem to be unique in this in Dublin - it's utterly daft.

Dublin Bus themselves don't publish intermediate stop information. The reason it is there now is that the NTA's multi modal national journey planner needed intermediate times so interchange can be calculated. For example, Dart from howth, change to bus at Connolly. If the intermediate stop times were not there, the NJP wouldn't work. What the NTA probably should do is remove the find a timetable tool from their Transport For Ireland website.
It is the same for LUAS, RPA don't publish an intermediate timetable but they obviously provide information to the NTA for the Journey Planner on estimates at LUAS stops.