state raising our children

bogwalrus

There are many laws that protect children. Some of these laws tell parents what they can not do to their child such as hitting etc.

I just saw on sky news that they are looking at laws for emotional abuse parents can cause children and in a way forcing parents to love their children.

I wonder 100 years down the road will there be so many laws and gudlines parents must follow when raising their child that it will be pretty much the state doing the raising.

I personally think there is a right and wrong way to raise a child and maybe the above would not be so bad?

Temptamperu

why do people watching british tv think it has anything to do with ireland?

Muise...

Temptamperu wrote: »

why do people watching british tv think it has anything to do with ireland?

And why do they "personally think" things - do they sometimes get other people to do the thinking for them?

o1s1n

bogwalrus wrote: »

There are many laws that protect children. Some of these laws tell parents what they can not do to their child such as hitting etc.

I just saw on sky news that they are looking at laws for emotional abuse parents can cause children and in a way forcing parents to love their children.

I wonder 100 years down the road will there be so many laws and gudlines parents must follow when raising their child that it will be pretty much the state doing the raising.

I personally think there is a right and wrong way to raise a child and maybe the above would not be so bad?

Wait, what?

Do you mean 'the above' as in 'hitting and emotionally abusing' your child is not so bad?

Or do you think that the state enforcing laws so this is not done is not so bad?

jimgoose

Raising a child is much like hiring a horse - put a brick under each foot. I don't know why there's all this consternation about it.

gugleguy

Temptamperu wrote: »

why do people watching british tv think it has anything to do with ireland?

Well, for the pure West Brits that reside south of the border. :rolleyes:

Gran Hermano

OP needs to write a stern letter voicing their opinion to their MP.

folan

bogwalrus wrote: »

I just saw on sky news that they are looking at laws for emotional abuse parents can cause children and in a way forcing parents to love their children.

you think its ok to hit and emotionally abuse anyone, never mind children?

no one will be forcing them to love their children. treat them well, yes.

otherwise, since you are not willing to love or look after your child, give them up for adoption, so the state can find parents who will.

Sorry, bogwalrus, here when i say you, i dont mean you personally, i mean anyone who would disagree with such laws

bogwalrus

o1s1n wrote: »

Wait, what?

Do you mean 'the above' as in 'hitting and emotionally abusing' your child is not so bad?

Or do you think that the state enforcing laws so this is not done is not so bad?

I meant more laws is not so bad.

bogwalrus

Temptamperu wrote: »

why do people watching british tv think it has anything to do with ireland?

I am speaking about children in general. The point that there are more laws being made and that maybe in 100 years it will be pretty much the state saying what we can and can not do with our kids.

Alf. A. Male

bogwalrus wrote: »

maybe in 100 years it will be pretty much the state saying what we can and can not do with our kids.

Eh, it already does. There are laws saying you can't abuse them, have to send them to school and what have you, so this is a development in that area of legislation, not a starting point.

mad turnip

They will realise soon enough when the little brat generation can't be turned into functional adults.

folan

mad turnip wrote: »

They will realise soon enough when the little brat generation can't be turned into functional adults.

realise what?

bogwalrus

Alf. A. Male wrote: »

Eh, it already does. There are laws saying you can't abuse them, have to send them to school and what have you, so this is a development in that area of legislation, not a starting point.

Yeah I agree but how far can you control how parents raise their child. I think pretty far.

I can imagine the following laws:

Diet: you are not allowed to raise your child to be obese. Children should be on a healthy nutritional diet. If your child is over weight you will be fined.

Religion: you are not allowed to indoctrinate your child as this is a form of brain washing.

Education: all children must reach a full second level of education standard if able.

Psychological: you must always love your child and never psychologically abuse your child. This includes abuseive name calling, psychological threats etc.

Physical: your child must get plenty of exercise and be involved in outdoor activities is able. You are not allowed to hit your child etc.

bogwalrus

Most of those laws are there but the degree at which they are enforced will be different. Teachers will probably have a key role in notifying authorities of any rules that are not being adhered to.

At the end of the day it is the way we raise our children that determines their futures. A positive healthy upbringing is the key to a nice individual is it not?

Rory Gallagher

bogwalrus wrote: »

Yeah I agree but how far can you control how parents raise their child. I think pretty far.

I can imagine the following laws:

Diet: you are not allowed to raise your child to be obese. Children should be on a healthy nutritional diet. If your child is over weight you will be fined.

Religion: you are not allowed to indoctrinate your child as this is a form of brain washing.

Education: all children must reach a full second level of education standard if able.

Psychological: you must always love your child and never psychologically abuse your child. This includes abuseive name calling, psychological threats etc.

Physical: your child must get plenty of exercise and be involved in outdoor activities is able. You are not allowed to hit your child etc.

That would be a beneficial law.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

bogwalrus wrote: »

Yeah I agree but how far can you control how parents raise their child. I think pretty far.

I can imagine the following laws:

Diet: you are not allowed to raise your child to be obese. Children should be on a healthy nutritional diet. If your child is over weight you will be fined.

Religion: you are not allowed to indoctrinate your child as this is a form of brain washing.

Education: all children must reach a full second level of education standard if able.

Psychological: you must always love your child and never psychologically abuse your child. This includes abuseive name calling, psychological threats etc.

Physical: your child must get plenty of exercise and be involved in outdoor activities is able. You are not allowed to hit your child etc.

I think that anyone who needs to be told the above should have their kids taken from them and be sterilised. They're probably the same thicks outraged there's going to be a no smoking ban in cars with children. How dare their right to smoke be interfered with.

Just because you have the alibity to reproduce doesn't mean you should, and nobody has the right to f*ck up another person, even if they made them.

end of the road

Temptamperu wrote: »

why do people watching british tv think it has anything to do with ireland?

i'd agree, but i suppose its the fear that ireland will go the same way and make the same mistakes as britain

end of the road

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think that anyone who needs to be told the above should have their kids taken from them and be sterilised. They're probably the same thicks outraged there's going to be a no smoking ban in cars with children. How dare their right to smoke be interfered with.

Just because you have the alibity to reproduce doesn't mean you should, and nobody has the right to f*ck up another person, even if they made them.

we can't afford a ban on smoking in cars, we haven't got the money or resources for it, murika is about the only country that could afford it

Manach

You got to love the socially progressive types. Any type of deviation from their idealised version of what the family (again a changing social construct) are grounds for removing the child from the natural family. Pundits like Geoffrey Shannon, author of a book on how the state should interact with children, is broadly supportive of intervention on behalf of the state in such affairs in the pursuit of the increasing emphais of children's rights at the expense of the family.
These experts have taken their playbox from such experts as Dr. Roy Meadows - whose misapplication of statistical data resulted in 100s of families been split apart. Usually this paragon of liberal virtue is never bandied about when discussing how great the state is when deciding the rights/wrongs of child oversight.

end of the road

the problem is what will be considered emotional abuse in years to come, watching the sky news report earlier on, not taking children on holidays was mentioned as an example

GalwayGuy2

How can you even tell if something is emotional abuse?

freedominacup

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

How can you even tell if something is emotional abuse?

You just can provided you have the correct ideological viewpoint.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

end of the road wrote: »

we can't afford a ban on smoking in cars, we haven't got the money or resources for it, murika is about the only country that could afford it

Responsible parents with any consideration for their children shouldn't need the government to enforce a ban to stop their children breathing in second hand smoke, is my point.

bogwalrus

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Responsible parents with any consideration for their children shouldn't need the government to enforce a ban to stop their children breathing in second hand smoke, is my point.

The ban should be there anyway just as a reminder though and when broken a penalty. I think it is naive to think most parents are all round responsible parents. Every parent does irresponsible things while raising kids. Look at the McCanne's leaving their kids in the apartment. I know people that say they have no problem doing that when on holiday.

Responsibilities need to be support by laws.

hatrickpatrick

As long as Ireland doesn't go the way of the UK, where they can apparently force a foreign woman temporarily in Britain to have a caesarian in order to take her child into care before she's even due to give birth, I'm happy. The UK is f*cked.

GalwayGuy2

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As long as Ireland doesn't go the way of the UK, where they can apparently force a foreign woman temporarily in Britain to have a caesarian in order to take her child into care before she's even due to give birth, I'm happy. The UK is f*cked.

Yeah, it all started to go downhill when they started banning porn :pac:

Although, to go to an earlier point, what's the difference between emotional abuse and just a style of parenting? eg: Calling someone a tosser can be either in different circumstances.

FullblownRose

folan wrote: »

you think its ok to hit and emotionally abuse anyone, never mind children?

no one will be forcing them to love their children. treat them well, yes.

otherwise, since you are not willing to love or look after your child, give them up for adoption, so the state can find parents who will.

Sorry, bogwalrus, here when i say you, i dont mean you personally, i mean anyone who would disagree with such laws

The state does not have a good record when it comes to the care of children. This really should be obvious to everyone by now.

ryan101

Temptamperu wrote: »

why do people watching british tv think it has anything to do with ireland?

It doesn't but it is funny how Ireland usually ends up copying the UK and USA

end of the road

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As long as Ireland doesn't go the way of the UK, where they can apparently force a foreign woman temporarily in Britain to have a caesarian in order to steal her child which isn't a british citizen take it into care and give it to parents who fits the delusianelest ideals that social services have, before she's even due to give birth, I'm happy. The UK is f*cked.

fixed that up a little patrick, hope you don't mind

hatrickpatrick

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Yeah, it all started to go downhill when they started banning porn :pac:

Although, to go to an earlier point, what's the difference between emotional abuse and just a style of parenting? eg: Calling someone a tosser can be either in different circumstances.

Effect, really. Emotional abuse is emotional treatment which leads to psychological disorders. Kids who have been emotionally abused tend to have avoidant, borderline, or a combination of both personality disorders, where they have a high level of social paranoia and assume people don't like them even when there's no reason to. I know a few people who fit this bill and it's pretty heartbreaking - people who refuse invitations to parties even when everyone is saying "Ah come on, where have you been lately just come out!" and privately confide in their close friends that they feel invisible and unwanted, and assume they're only being invited out of politeness etc.

Usually when you get talking to these people on a deeper level they'll tell you stories of severe childhood bullying and undermining by someone close to them. Not always of course, but I'm definitely noticing a pattern among people I know who suffer from the aforementioned social phobias.

GalwayGuy2

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Effect, really. Emotional abuse is emotional treatment which leads to psychological disorders. Kids who have been emotionally abused tend to have avoidant, borderline, or a combination of both personality disorders, where they have a high level of social paranoia and assume people don't like them even when there's no reason to. I know a few people who fit this bill and it's pretty heartbreaking - people who refuse invitations to parties even when everyone is saying "Ah come on, where have you been lately just come out!" and privately confide in their close friends that they feel invisible and unwanted, and assume they're only being invited out of politeness etc.

Usually when you get talking to these people on a deeper level they'll tell you stories of severe childhood bullying and undermining by someone close to them. Not always of course, but I'm definitely noticing a pattern among people I know who suffer from the aforementioned social phobias.

No, don't get me wrong, emotional abuse is a real thing.

But I'm not sure effect is enough of an indicator. People react differently to different things.

Czarcasm

bogwalrus wrote: »

There are many laws that protect children. Some of these laws tell parents what they can not do to their child such as hitting etc.

I just saw on sky news that they are looking at laws for emotional abuse parents can cause children and in a way forcing parents to love their children.

I wonder 100 years down the road will there be so many laws and gudlines parents must follow when raising their child that it will be pretty much the state doing the raising.

I personally think there is a right and wrong way to raise a child and maybe the above would not be so bad?

More completely unworkable nonsense dreamed up by some think tank or other full of softy-headed numpties with a very poor grasp on reality where social workers are already struggling to cope with an overstretched, overworked, underfunded and underresourced system.

Ted_YNWA

Molly-coddling kids will do them no good in the long run in their development. There is no point pandering to their every need. Tough love has its place as well.
When you go out into the working world & have to fend for yourself, no-one is their to mind you & hand-hold you through the process of daily living.

PLL

I can't stand people that don't discipline their children (NO I DON'T MEAN HIT) I mean tell them off when they are doing something wrong. It is how my dad raised me and I had the greatest respect for him and still do. He never raised a hand to me but by God If I did something wrong I knew about it and I knew what the consequences would be if I did it again.

My daughter ran into the kitchen at my in-laws last night, 3 pots of the stove and MIL walking across with a boiled kettle, well I shouted at her telling her she is not allowed in there while granny is cooking, it is dangerous etc and she got upset, but was over it in 5 mins. Anytime she went near the kitchen after that the minute I said her name she walked straight out. My sister in law thinks I'm awful for upsetting a 2yr old. Well I can't wait to see her kids walk all over her as they grow up. Children need discipline. End of.

darkpagandeath

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/parents-lsquoabused-by-own-childrenrsquo-on-rise-270685.html

Seems to be working well so far, knowing their rights an all seems parent abuse is on the up. Alot of these kids are seeing their parents as a resource. Seems the right of the child trumps the right of the parent, if the parents were being violent to the children they would be in jail. I’m all for children's rights but it’s gone way to far.

hatrickpatrick

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

No, don't get me wrong, emotional abuse is a real thing.

But I'm not sure effect is enough of an indicator. People react differently to different things.

Sure, but if you can paint a general picture among sufferers of such psychological inhibitions, you can form a general framework for what constitutes potentially damaging emotional abuse. The common theme among all of the ones I know personally (which is obviously a limited frame of reference) is undermining. Either being constantly told that something was wrong with them, or constantly told that they weren't good enough to achieve what they wanted to achieve. I know one girl who became full on anorexic because not only did one of her parents mock her weight, fuelling her insecurity, they also undermined her attempts to fix it when she finally started dieting etc (you'll never manage it, you'll be back to where you started in two weeks, etc etc etc). People need encouragement rather than a barrage of negativity.

MRnotlob606

Ireland is a sovereign nation. Britain is also. we are different

wicklowstevo

i really wouldnt worry about it op . in a hundred years time we will all be living in a post apocalyptic world where sky news will be relatively unimportant