Nightmare housemate....HELP!

LegacyUser

I moved to a new city about 4 months ago. And moved into a new house-share with strangers about a month later.
I live with a 50-year old foreign man, who is lovely, and an Asian American woman who is a neurotic nightmare.
I work a lot, so I’m rarely around except for at odd hours at the end of a busy shift, or on a rare morning that I’m not working. I work right through weekends and late into the evening.

I’m a clean person, not excessively so but I maintain a tidy bedroom and always clean up after myself. I can’t abide mess, but my housemate’s issues are on another level.
It started with the “by the way”s every time I’d be in the kitchen as the same time as her. I’d be sitting there watching tv or making my dinner and every single time there’d be something she’d need to tell me – “can you please make sure the door of the bin is closed tightly after you’ve emptied something into it”, “can you leave the plughole in the sink because we’ve had blockage problems”. At first I’d smile and nod because I was new and figured these were things that she felt she needed to tell me, as the newest housemate.
But it hasn’t stopped. And it got worse, with passive aggressive notes left around the place – “dear housemates, please leave the j-clothes on the designated cloth-holders instead of around the sink, where they get dirty and gross”. She even left a sign on her bathroom door – “please take your shoes off before entering, thank you for respecting my culture and religion”. She’s a Christian and this has nothing to do with her religion and is almost laughable.

It all escalated one night when I was sitting watching TV and she was cooking behind me (we have a kitchen-come-living room), left to go to my room and she followed me out onto the stairs quickly, saying “can you please switch the TV off before leaving the kitchen? Because I’m busy and my hands are dirty”. I just couldn’t reply to the ridiculousness of that politely so said “give me a break” and went to my room. Since then there’s been a sort of Cold War stand-off between the two of us every time we’re both in the kitchen. She ignores me except for a cold “hello” if I greet her as I walk in.

This morning I was rushing out the door to work when she quickly called my name, came pounding out of the kitchen and yelled “can you please put your cup away because it’s been sitting on the counter…” blah blah blah. I looked at her, sighed and just shut the door and walked off. Rude I know, but not even comparable to what happened next – she stuck her head out the door and yelled obscenities at me as I walked out of the apartment complex – called me a ****ing bitch, she was going to call a house meeting, unacceptable, she’s not my maid, blah blah blah. Really shocking stuff and not a treatment I’ve ever experienced before with any housemate.

She subsequently sent some stupid email calling for a ‘house meeting’, where her gripe seems to be that I’ve left an empty cup or two around the sink without putting them in the dishwasher, ‘utensils have disappeared’ (I may have a glass of water in my bedroom and a fork that I use for my lunch) and she has had to take the trash out twice a week since she arrived.

Now granted, those are things that I can and should fix – I just haven’t been around at all because I’ve started in a new and incredibly busy stressful job. If I’m in the kitchen, I’ll do some cooking, immediately clean up after myself and maybe watch a bit of TV – as background on this. I’m not a filthy inconsiderate asshole who leaves dirty mouldy dishes around the place and is loud and leery and takes the place over any time I’m there. I’m perfectly aware of my awkward hours and spend any time in the house tip-toeing around the place and feeling uncomfortable because of how intensely odd and prone to outbursts she is. I feel awkward any time we’re both in the kitchen and have found myself avoiding it because of that. Which is not how I want to be living, my life is stressful enough!
I guess I’m just looking for advice on how to deal with all of this. I know I’m no saint and given the standard of cleanliness in the house, can do more to not leave dishes around etc (first time anyone has ever directed this kind of complaint against me tbh…??), but it’s the abrasive personality and neurotic weird air of her that I need to learn how to manage.
I know the default answer will be “move out”, but it’s a great house, in a great location for me work-wise, I love my room and space and I pay decent rent. And it took me AGES to land somewhere vaguely decent and don’t have the time right now to go through another househunt again.

Please help!!!

boro3000

You really just need to put the b*tch in her place. She obviously a mad egg. She how things are in a couple of months. If it's still going on then it's time to leave. These types are everywhere.

Diane Selwyn

its unfortunately true - you just can't get along with everyone. She actually sounds like she may have some OCD issues so that is probably not going to change. Does the other guy get along with her ok?

Paco Rodriguez

She seems a bit excessive at how she asks you to do things, but I do think she has a right to be annoyed at your habits. Perhaps a meeting would help and for you both to meet in the middle ground?

boro3000

(but I do think she has a right to be annoyed at your habits)

oh c'mon the women sounds like a complete loony...

freaking out over cups and j-cloths. You can't have everything perfect all the time. And if you try to well then you certainly have some sort of OCD issues as Diane was saying.

LegacyUser

I just talked to my landlord about her, who lives overseas, and apparently she is bona fide crazy, volatile and a difficult, difficult person in general. Good to know all of this when I've already moved in and gotten settled...

My other housemate has had issues with her, my landlord has always had issues with her, even the fcuking cleaner has issues with her and quote "only still works for me because I pay her and treat her well".

I've read over my post and can't believe how I was beginning to question/blame myself. I've been renting for more than a decade and have never ever ever had these kinds of issues - I'm a clean, considerate housemate and know my standard of cleanliness and tidiness would be higher than a lot others.

Apparently the girl whose room I took was a messy disaster, stockpiled dirty dishes in her room, left rotten food out etc - and Crazy Housemate never said anything to her, probably because she had moved in before Crazy and wouldn't be pushed around by her.

My landlord has apparently told her to leave repeatedly but she comes up with some bullsh1t excuse about liking the house and the location etc - yeah right, more likely she has nowhere else to go.

So I guess now I'm looking for advice on how to reign her in. Landlord is going to email her a stern warning and has asked me to report any further problems with her. She reckons I should give her back as bad as she gives me, but I;m not a confrontational person and honestly, verbally abusing someone is the kind of thing that would stay with me for the day. But at the same time, I'm not going to be bullied in my own home by some weird, anti-social, mentally unstable freak who should be sedated and strapped to a bed instead of living in a house-share.

Ugh, really not sure how to move forward.

dee_mc

Ah houseshares, fun fun fun!
You need to sit down and talk to her.
Tell her you want a harmonious home life, that your work is stressful and you need to be able to relax in your own space.
Point out that you realise it's a shared space, and you do your best to keep it ship shape, but that there have to be acceptable standards of living, for example it should be ok to leave a cup on the counter for a few hours, or to use a glass or piece of cutlery outside of your shared kitchen. Assure her that you won't morph into a megaslob. Don't remind her that she's not your mum, that won't end well.
Maybe a rota of some kind would be a good idea if your housemate is complaining about things like putting out the rubbish bins. Dividing responsibility should calm her down a bit, as it sounds like she feels responsible for the upkeep of the place (maybe she has control issues, who knows).
Houseshares are difficult, and sometimes it's just not worth the hassle, so keep the feelers out for a new place, and in the meantime try not to antagonise her as it'll only make things more uncomfortable for you

Chara1001

I used to have a housemate from hell.

I lived with 3 others and we got along brilliantly, while the house wasn't a party house at all, visitors & partners were welcome, we had dinner parties etc, but she didn't like it at all- she would sit in her room, bi**hing about us on facebook (forgot that one of the girls was a fbook friend).
She kept her favorite utensils, pots & pans in her room (communal things, not hers) so we couldn't use them, and left passive aggressive notes lying around about cleaning- the house was always tidy & clean, especially the kitchen & bathrooms. She commandeered the washing machine at the weekend by filling the machine and not putting it on till later but then putting on huge successive washes on the longest cycle (2 hours each). She used got up really early but she had a loud hairdryer that went on every morning at 6 for half an hour, where she kept her door open and on the weekends, she used to get up around half 7 and start hoovering. I could go on all night....

The point is, that the 3 of us stopped pandering to her. The atmosphere in the house, and especially the kitchen had become really bad. In the evenings we all cooked around the same time so normally ate together and she would be there pointedly ignoring us, slamming things, sighing, muttering to herself about us- right in the middle of us. I couldn't believe it, it was so rude that we didn't even know how to approach it.
Basically, a bit of a cold war started- like you said op, but that was even worse.
So we just stopped putting up with it. The next time she hoovered at half 7 on a saturday morning, i knocked on her door and told her to turn it off. When she left nasty notes around, someone put them in the bin and told her that we were clean, we didn't like her telling us we weren't, and if she wanted the place cleaned to her standards, she'd have to do it herself.
When she took the frying pan into her room, someone might say that they needed it, where they wouldn't have in the past (it would disappear later though). This was all done as politely as possible, and we never ignored her or victimized her, but she felt we did and ended up leaving the house shortly after, as the living situation was not for her.

Your flatmate sounds much worse though- i don't think you should be forced to leave, you pay your rent too and just because she was there first doesn't mean she's in charge- this mindset is what you need to change.
Oh and i'd be wary of contacting the landlord about it. This girl i mentioned did that exact thing and it backfired, where he came to the house unannounced, told us she had written a complaint about us in front of her, and then told her not to bother him with this crap again- she was utterly mortified.

You can't ignore this op, you've got to do something about it. You say you get on well with your other flatmate- you could agree with him to do something similar, where you agree not to let her dominate either of you or your shared house. It could be worse at first but when she realizes its permanent, she might give up.
Worth a try, it sounds like you've got nothing to lose.

Stavro Mueller

Do you know what your other housemate's stance on this woman is? Because if you thought he was on your side, a house meeting might just be the ticket to clear the air. I'm inclined to agree with chara - the only way you can deal with this is to stand up to her. Maybe it'll backfire but what do you have to lose? She's already bullying you and making your life miserable.

Merkin

She sounds like an out and out looper, don't succumb to the crazy. I'd use the house meeting to your advantage,have a chat with the third housemate beforehand as I'm sure he's been privy to her loopiness, and tell her in no uncertain terms that it's your home too and your not going to cave in to her crazy demands but will agree to a rota for bin collection and other communally beneficial tasks.

LegacyUser

I dunno OP while her behaviour was out of line, you do strike me as a little lazy tbh. The cup thing would brother me personally ( and I'm far from a neat freak) its not like she even asked you to wash your cup, just put it in the dishwasher. It takes about 5 seconds to put a cup in the dishwasher, it was hardly going to make you any later for work putting the cup in the dishwasher instead of on the counter was it?

Again with the TV, why would you leave a room and leave the TV on?

It could be that she's tired of you being lazy and not pulling your weight around the house rather than it being a cleanliness issue per se.

You leave the tv on when you're not in the room, does this extend to other areas, do you leave lights on around the house at night for example?

Is there a rota going in the house? Do you do your share of the housework?

You say there was a sign on her bathroom door, is it her own personal bathroom then rather than a shared one? If so are people using it/why are other people using it?

What was the outcome of the house meeting? Did the other flatmate agree with her?

While again the shouting etc are completely out of order I have a certain amount of sympathy for her being in a similar situation myself. I live with a girl who's a lovely girl and by no means a slob but having to tidy the breakfast dishes she leaves on counters in the morning when theres a dishwasher 5 inches lower, constantly having to turn off the lights she leaves on around the place, emptying the bin she absolutely force packs stuff into when it would've taken her 2 minutes to empty, unblocking the kitchen sink drain where she's left bits of pasta and food to coagulate gets very very frustrating.

WellThen?

hardtotellyouknow wrote: »

I dunno OP while her behaviour was out of line, you do strike me as a little lazy tbh. The cup thing would brother me personally ( and I'm far from a neat freak) its not like she even asked you to wash your cup, just put it in the dishwasher. It takes about 5 seconds to put a cup in the dishwasher, it was hardly going to make you any later for work putting the cup in the dishwasher instead of on the counter was it?

Again with the TV, why would you leave a room and leave the TV on?

It could be that she's tired of you being lazy and not pulling your weight around the house rather than it being a cleanliness issue per se.

You leave the tv on when you're not in the room, does this extend to other areas, do you leave lights on around the house at night for example?

Is there a rota going in the house? Do you do your share of the housework?

You say there was a sign on her bathroom door, is it her own personal bathroom then rather than a shared one? If so are people using it/why are other people using it?

What was the outcome of the house meeting? Did the other flatmate agree with her?

While again the shouting etc are completely out of order I have a certain amount of sympathy for her being in a similar situation myself. I live with a girl who's a lovely girl and by no means a slob but having to tidy the breakfast dishes she leaves on counters in the morning when theres a dishwasher 5 inches lower, constantly having to turn off the lights she leaves on around the place, emptying the bin she absolutely force packs stuff into when it would've taken her 2 minutes to empty, unblocking the kitchen sink drain where she's left bits of pasta and food to coagulate gets very very frustrating.

People like you should live alone.

tomdempsey200

WellThen? wrote: »

People like you should live alone.

dunno

I might have a bit of sympathy for the "looney" flatmate

if tv's are being just left on and bins open as it seems

Pat Mustard

Crazy lunatic housemates don't change when you take them aside and give them the facts of life. You may put such a person in their place. Temporarily. That's fine if it's somebody with whom you don't have to live, but this crazy lady is still gonna be crazy no matter what you do. And you are stuck living with her.

You could confront her or ignore her, but you can't fix crazy.

I don't shy away from confrontation normally, but I wouldn't put up with persistent aggression inside my own home.

If I was in your situation, either she or I would have to go.

I'd start looking to move, tbh.

Queen-Mise

Oh whatever you do don't even think about moving.

Let her ranting go in one ear and out the other ear. Nod in all the right places and duly forget about it.

If she mentions a cup, tell her you deliberately left it there, as the sink was lonely being too clean (ok maybe not that exactly). It is one cup ffs. But give her no hop at all. Don't entertain any of it.

Pass yourself, be friendly and polite, but you are not living in TV sitcom land like Friends.

LegacyUser

What's the deal with the bathroom? You did call it her bathroom, if it's her's why is she leaving signs for the rest of the housemates? Does it have the only electric shower or something that ye share? If it's in her bedroom I'd probably just go along with her wishes.

If however it's the main communal bathroom, I would remove the sign and say 'No I shall not be removing my shoes before entering, please respect the fact that you are in a house sharing environment and others may not want to and more importantly do not have to follow your cultural preferences, this is not meant to be disrespectful but I live by my own cultural norms and don't appreciate signs suggesting I do otherwise on our shared bathroom door'

I don't think it's fair if she is the only one taking out the bin the most, that should be shared between housemates.

If it's causing a big problem,it might be easier to just buy your own glass and fork or two for your lunch/bedroom snacks, if only to save you the headache of her giving out about a missing fork that she probably counts.

I've had the tv thing said to myself before, as in why was I leaving it on if not even watching it. To be honest I had never even realised I did that, just always used to having the background noise of tv. I didn't have a problem at all though when it got said to me because that person was paying their share of the ESB with me so had a right to point it out I believe. It would be different though if you were only going to your room to quickly grab something and she expected you to turn it off for that minute or so.

At this house meeting I would tell her you expect an apology for her tirade of abuse against you calling you names. If she says again, 'I'm not your maid', you could say
'I have not once suggested you were my maid, and have never once asked you to clean up or do anything for me, it was one cup that I would have washed later, so no you are not my maid but nor are you the ruler of this house, you don't have any authority to dictate to me or bark orders about when to put my cup away and I am not happy with the aggressive manner in which you addressed me'

If you want to make the peace tell her you are going to make more of an effort to put your dishes away, but that it's the bossy manner she communicates with that you have the issue with.

Try to come to an agreement in the meeting that you will all work out a fair rota for bins and also cleaning of communal areas such as dusting and hoovering, cleaning worktops, fridge, cooker and microwave etc.
Her agreement should be that she will stop giving orders and leaving notes all around the house. Also that she apologizes for being abusive and ensures it doesn't happen again. (If she does apologise you could also apologise for what you said yourself was being a bit rude but explain how your frustration led to it.)

If she continues to act bossy or gets abusive again even after you have made it clear how you feel on this matter, then I would just completely 100% blank her and carry about my business as I wished.
You can actually learn to live with an awkward atmosphere eventually, and she should eventually tire of her bossing if she's getting no response. Tell her you'll speak to her when she's ready to conduct herself in a civil way, and not making orders or calling you names.

beks101

Ugh, what a mentaller. I don't understand why people like this insist on inflicting their neurosis on other people, when the behaviour of other human beings clearly irritates them so profoundly. They should be living on their own full stop.

It sounds like this girl is used to having things as she pleases, getting her own way through bullying and intimidation, and is basically 'marking her territory' by trying to intimidate you into submission as the newest tenant in the door.

I think what I would do is be polite and impersonal around her, but stake your claim on the house in whatever way you can. As someone else says, DON'T pander to her and when she makes these ridiculous demands, in an even tone say "I'll do that in my own time (Crazy Housemate)" and walk off. Or "if that's how you like things, go right ahead but I'm not going to do that so don't ask again" and look back at the television.

And stake your claim on the place. Sit and watch TV, make a few loud phone calls, stick on some music, spend a few hours knocking about the kitchen cooking and eating, invite a few friends around, open a bottle of wine, have a chat as if she's not there and her presence doesn't bother you in the slightest. Show her you're not someone to be messed with and you're going to live your life as you please right under her nose regardless.

Overheal

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

dunno

I might have a bit of sympathy for the "looney" flatmate

if tv's are being just left on and bins open as it seems

Bins are sentient bastard lifeforms that have their own free will and stay open often of their own accord. fcuk no will I get my hands filthy to correct the lid of a bin that is 2 centimeters ajar. It's an Apartment, not an AIDS ward.

%&#@$&{{

Plus, fcuk the TV. Let's think about this rationally:

It all escalated one night when I was sitting watching TV and she was cooking behind me (we have a kitchen-come-living room), left to go to my room and she followed me out onto the stairs quickly, saying “can you please switch the TV off before leaving the kitchen? Because I’m busy and my hands are dirty”.

I could just as easily be going to my room to fetch a tablet and bring it into the living room: instead the c*nt apparently assumed the OP was leaving to Leave, and immediately went to harping about the use of the television.

OP, PM A R&R Mod for R&R Access if you don't already have it :pac:

I agree with a lot of the other comments: it's as much your house as anyone elses. The lovely thing about standards is, typically, there's a middle ground in shared housing. It's different when say you live with your parents. They pay the mortgage, they fill the fridge, their word is law. In this case she can claim to have the higher moral authority or standards or whatever she likes to call them but they are just as unreasonable as a tenant who never cleans dishes and hoards their plates in their room until moldy or just leaves laundry and dishes sitting around for weeks or longer unattended. This crazy cow is the other extreme (though why it matters she's american is beyond me, granted we have a high demographic of naive nutters) who expects the TV to be shut off the moment we avert our gaze from it or wash a cup the moment it is no longer holding liquid.

I'm a pretty reasonable guy myself, I will keep the common area clean inside of about a 1-day revolve. Truth is I love efficiency and it's more efficient to reuse the same glass/mug multiple times in a day rather than rack the dishwasher with 6 mugs, or clean the same mug 6 times. I'm the only one using the mug, and it's all coffee, and I'm not worried about a violent strain of disease erupting on the surface area of that small piece of porcelain in the span of 2 hours. I'd be far more upset if I left milk sitting out at room temperature, but hey.

My stepmom, rest her soul, used to be a militant _____ about yelling at me to unplug my stereo in the morning before school. Every. ****ing. Day. This lasted about a week, in reality, because thats how long my fuse was. I turned right back around and roared at her for not unplugging the Television, Oven, 2 Sky Boxes, etc. as surely those burn up way more standby joules. She was speechless and that was the last I ever heard about it. Similarly, this bitch of yours can get an earful of her 2 hour loads, vacuuming and extensive hairdrying sessions the next time she wants to bemoan the use of the TV. The average TV I think is 200-500 Watts depending on size (check the back panel by the power supply) and the average hair dryer is close to 2 kW. So whats her argument for the TV, that you're wasting energy? HA!

If she's really REALLY upset about dishes, does she ****ing OWN the dishes? Does she NEED that coffee mug? Worst come to worse, I own my own dinnerware and kitchenware. Enough to fend for myself. Pots and pans. If war ever erupted I can tell then to **** right off and do whatever they want with their stuff and I will use my stuff. Fair argument if you want to bitch me for occupying the sink, but if I leave a mug on the side of the counter its not hurting you. If anything, most of my mugs are nerdy and vanity and are providing you the service of their aesthetic pleasantness. Fortunately, me and the current roommates get on great, cook shared meals, etc.

J-cloths? Leave her a coupon to buy a Lysol wipes. Let her use her own J-cloths. To be fair, I own a dozen of the little wee shytes. My dad owns 20, and about 30 hand towels, he will go through 4 tea towels a night just to keep everything nice and clean, it's as much laziness not wanting to re-rack towels as it is kitchen hygiene.

And by the way, if she leaves her laundry in that god damn machine you **** that **** right out into the nearest available hamper. If it's dirty put it on the floor. Clothes in the machine not doing sh*t dont. mean. sh*t. That snotty little OMGYOURENOTWATCHINGTVFORTWOSECONDS attitude plays wonderfully here. Hey the buzzer went off and you're not folding clothes? Well I need the dryer, these are being stuffed and scrunched into the hamper. She can put them back in for a de-wrinkle cycle the next time she can be bothered in her hole. No real harm.

Basically I get the vibe that she is a pissy little c*nt with a full bladder trying to mark her territory against the new tenant. Truthfully though, she has no real authority and no real leadership. Even the playing field and get the sanity back.

Taltos

WellThen? - welcome to PI / RI. Please have a read of our charter. If you cannot keep your advice civil or constructive then please consider not posting as posts like above will result in moderator action being required.

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Taltos

NipNip

Call a house meeting. Outline the facts that:
A) This is your home, not boot-camp
Her verbal abuse of you is unacceptable
C) She makes you feel uncomfortable
D) How you would like her attitude to change - give examples of tone of voice, following you around giving you orders, what YOU feel is acceptable i.e. a cup left on the counter occassionally.
E) What YOU feel is acceptable behaviour
Don't back down. Be clear and concise, don't attack her. Emphasize how her behaviour and attitude makes YOU feel uncomfortable and stressed. Focus on you, not her.

Starokan

She is way over the top , I cant see a meeting repairing any issues, someone that obsessive will find it too hard to change.

She is simply not suited to a house share, she wants everything her way and thus needs to live on her own.

I would make that point, perhaps she might realise it would be better for her. If not tbh I would consider moving on myself as engaging in a constant battle of wills when you come home after a hard day is just not worth it

Legs.Eleven

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

dunno

I might have a bit of sympathy for the "looney" flatmate

if tv's are being just left on and bins open as it seems

"TVs" are being just being left on"? There is nothing in that post to indicate that it is a regular occurrence.


Fact of the matter is, if you choose to live in a house share, compromise is essential and you can't expect people to have the same standards as you. A certain degree of tidiness is expected, obviously, but if you like things absolutely perfect at all times, live alone.

Her reaction was absolutely bonkers!! What normal person talks to anyone that way unless the person was really out of line? The fact that the other housemate knows it along with the landlord shows whose problem this is.

I'd personally tell her that you won't be bossed about by her and that you won't stand for her shit and if she doesn't like it, she can talk to the landlord. Get your landlord to write that email as soon as possible. Not an ideal situation for a house share but if you like the place and don't want to leave, I don't see any other option. People like that can't be reasoned with.

kylith

I agree that the house meeting would be a good time to bring it up. She will be expecting you to be cowed in anticipation of a telling off, so turn it around on her and her demanding behaviour.

acequion

OP I agree with those who say that people like her just can't be reasoned with and totally disgree with those having sympathy for her. She's an obnoxious control freak and her bullying of you is unacceptable.She has obviously bullied the landlord as well, as the landlord seems to be treading very carefully with her,while still not wanting her as a tenant.She's the sort that would cause all sorts of hassle if thrown out.

The house meeting is the only way to thrash things out and get a few things clear. I'd be making it crystal clear to her that you will not accept her bullying behaviour and that you are an equal partner in this house share. I would say something like,"If you verbally abuse me again with obscenities,I will take it further" That's usually a good one with bullies.

Other than that you need the landlord to make it clear that any more such behaviour and she's out and both you and the other house mate need to insist on that one.Best of luck!

PhiloCypher

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

dunno

I might have a bit of sympathy for the "looney" flatmate

if tv's are being just left on and bins open as it seems

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the OP left it on in the mistaken belief that she might want to watch it while she cooked, yes OP could have asked if she wanted it left on but given how frosty things are between them I'm not surprised he/she didn't . Also the bins weren't being left open just not shut tightly enough.

scallywaggles

Ahahaha, I once had a flatmate like that, she ran the apartment like a dictator. But what was useful is that we had a cleaning rota, so a different person did a bit of cleaning and put out the rubbish each week but it didn't matter at what point of the week that you did it. We had to take our shoes off in the flat but it turned out to be a good idea as there was less cleaning to do then!

I'm not one for confrontation when you know that you're dealing with a person who loves drama and will enjoy a stand off so I'd work around it. Stuff like buying some of your own glasses or cups etc so you can leave them in your room or wherever is handy as if she complains well it's your stuff and she shouldn't be using it. If the landlord knows she is a bit 'odd' then he will be ignoring whatever she complains about, probably doesn't really care so long as the rent is paid. There isn't much you can do really as whatever you do she'll have something else to complain about, so have the house meeting, let her vent, say your piece and carry on. I wouldn't pay too much attention to it if it were me, people like that don't change.

Big Bag of Chips

I really don't think the landlord can get involved here. Going to the landlord about her is like telling the grown up, who you hope will sort it out. It's not up to the landlord to come along and give out to her and tell you all to play nicely. It's up to you as adults to figure it out.

I really really don't see why you'd even contact the landlord, unless to tell them you were moving out, and cite her as the reason. I also don't believe that the landlord has tried to get her out and she's only still there because she says she likes the house/area whatever.

This is something you, as an adult, are going to have to solve yourself. If that means just completely ignoring her and getting on with your life, or confronting her and telling her that you will not tolerate being spoken to like that etc etc, then so be it.

Maybe, as others said, a house meeting is a good thing. She's not "the boss" of the house. So the meeting should be used for you all to meet as equals, and lay out a few ground rules. Not for one to be "the mammy" and give out to the others.

Merkin

Agree, absolutely futile contacting the landlord. Most landlords wouldn't care if they had a nice little mix of Mussolini, Myra Hindley and Charles Manson as tenants as long as they get their rent on time, no point in involving them at all, they simply won't be interested.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the continued responses. I'm off work today and currently in my room, almost afraid to go downstairs and make some food because i think she's down there.

My landlord started an email chain with all of us copied overnight basically telling Housemate to "stop being a nuisance". She has replied several times in long windy essay-type ramblings explaining precisely how *i* am the problem for an endless list of reasons including leaving 'dirty glasses' around, not taking out the trash, pulling the drain catcher out of the sink, making 'snide remarks' (in response to barking orders every day I've been in the kitchen for the last three months.

Some of this stuff has so much pedantic attention to detail that she sounds like one of those people who pulls a gun and goes on a mass rampage, it's just not normal and my head is wrecked, I feel sick and I don't feel safe in my own home. Here's a sample:

Also it is fine if you are going to include (landlord) in your emails, but I'd appreciate, since she doesn't know the full story, if you didn't lie so much. If you are pulling out the drain because you are emptying it of food scraps, then it is odd that you throw it into the other sink (the one you are not using to wash your things), and that in the past, you have thrown the drain plug into the sink that you weren't using to wash your blender, etc. You have also told me (the first time I explained that we should keep the drain plug in there to catch any food, because we've had bad clogs in the past), that you "take it out by habit, when you wash your dishes". I forgot whether you said this was easier, but the implication was that you did this BEFORE you washed your dirty dishes. Now all of a sudden, with (landlord)copied in, you have a change of heart and you are suddenly doing this to remove any food remains.

Like, what? I can't even try to get inside the head of someone who thinks about something as fcuking stupid as a sink plug in this much detail. (This was in response to an email I wrote explaining that I pull out the drain plug to get rid of food that congeals in the sink if I am making smoothies etc, apparently she thinks that's some kind of conspiracy too)

We haven't had the "house meeting" yet, I need to get my head straight first as I am not good with confrontation and don't want to end up bulldozed into a corner by her which is likely unless I properly figure out my approach. Haven't had a chance to properly talk to other housemate either yet.

I just hate her and hate this situation, it's really stressing me out. I'm afraid to leave my fcuking room for gods sake & know that now she has decided that she hates me so much, every little thing I do will be ammunition for her. I feel bullied to be honest and the fact that my other housemate isn't weighing in (with good reason probably) isn't helping matters either.

cloudatlas

I'm not sure I would attend a meeting after someone effed an blinded at me over a cup. She will give you her terms and if you ask for flexibility or refuse she won't accept it so what's the point? Could you get a plastic wash basin put your name on it and throw your dirty dishes in it in a cupboard where you keep your stuff. Talk to your other housemate, maybe a united front would get her to back off.

TimeToShine

Haven't read the whole thread but ignore suggestions of moving. The fact that your LL acknowledged that she's a problem effectively gives you free reign to ignore her. I don't generally condone childish behaviour but sometimes it's best to treat people of her ilk like a broken radio. A pleasant nod and a smile every time she starts complaining following by complete and utter disregard for whatever she's harping on about. A few weeks of this and she should get the message.

If you agree with that woman then you need you need to live alone.

Also, try not to get stressed about it. I realise it is worthless advice in theory but getting upset about this has no benefit whatsoever.

wexfordman2

You need a room mate agreement.ask Sheldon to draw one up :-)

Seriously though sounds unpleasant, if you don't get it resolved over the next few months inwkukdnt stick around

Tramps Like Us

Tell her to fcuk off and ignore her sh!te

Overheal

she sounds like one of those people who pulls a gun and goes on a mass rampage

Now, she's a total c*nt, but I think you're beginning to step into the realm of stereotype and bigotry.

Diane Selwyn

I'd have to agree with those saying cut your losses and move on asap - if she is as bonkers as you've made her out then she is not going to suddenly see sense or change her strange ways. She has dug in, its unlikely that the landlord will do anything about her and frankly she sounds volatile and irrational. Any action you take to counter her weirdness will probably just antagonize her. You don't need that kind of stress in your home.

Merkin

Your last post beggars belief, the woman is a nutter!

It's great the landlord has deemed her a nuisance, I'd just stand by and let her dig her own grave and wouldn't engage any further with her. There simply is NO talking to some people and she's a prime example of that, you can't reason with unreasonable. Hopefully the landlord will tell her to go. Doubtful to be honest but if she has already deemed her a 'nuisance' she may just run out of patience and ask her to go.

beks101

Lodge a formal complaint and move out.
Make it clear to the landlord that her house is unliveable with such a difficult, volatile personality trying to co-exist with other tenants. Tell her you feel unsafe and will not continue to live with someone as unstable as this.

In the meantime, go to the house meeting and tell her three things:

1. If she verbally assaults or comes within ONE METRE of you again, you will file a police report. You've already reported her to the landlord and will be logging her every interaction with you in the house from this day forward.

2. She does not own the house. She does not have any rights above yours in the house and you are not going to change your behaviour or personality for her. You will continue to live your life as you please, y compris leaving glasses around the place or unplugging the drain yoke if it suits you, and if she doesn't like it, she can sit in her room and stew. Or she can move out. Thems are the choices.

3. You will not be interacting with her again. If she leaves another note or email or attempts to nag you, you will not be heeding a single word she says. Tell her not to look at you, approach you or have any physical contact with you unless absolutely necessary. Tell her you know her history, as does the landlord, and at this stage, she has a lot more to lose that you.

dellas1979

Lookit.

She has zero respect for you. She has walked all over you. Big time. And you have let her. Of course she is going to go to town on you.

First of all, I have no idea why you are scared of her. Holed up in your room?

I'm afraid, this issue seems a far bigger issue that just your housemate.

You are now learning (or could learn) a very valuable lesson about being assertive, standing up for yourself, and being responsible yourself.

Go down, make your dinner or whatever, and do your thing. And ignore her. If she starts, look her in the eye and say "I am not listening to you anymore". Leave it at that. Do not make comments as you are running away and stop with the emails.

Semele

I had trouble with a guy I lived with in a house share situation. He'd been there for ages, thought the place was his and was so volatile and unreasonable about the slightest things...stuff that didn't even make sense! I ended up room-bound most of the time to avoid him.

Things came to a head when he marched up to my room and started ROARING at me because I'd turned the heating off, not even knowing he was in the house at the time. He basically said it was his house and I was not to touch the heating (on or off) as it would be done to his liking and nothing else.

I rang my landlord the next day and said that although I loved the house I wasn't going to live with him anymore and was giving notice. I also said that our other housemate also hated him and probably wouldn't stay once I'd left. I told him that I would be happy for him to arrange viewings of my room before I moved, but that I would be telling everyone who came what a psycho the guy was as I couldn't knowingly let someone else move in with him.

The landlord, being both a sympathetic man and a sensible businessman, decided that I (and the other housemate) were worth more to him overall, and promptly gave the guy his notice! He was decent enough to realise that the crazy guy would know it was one of us who'd complained, so made up some rubbish story about a female relative of his who was moving to the city and who he'd promised a room to! The guy was furious, but never realised the truth and went round ranting about the landlord for a few weeks until he'd cleared out.

Since your landlord knows this girl is an issue, maybe you need to be more hard line? Explain that her presence is going to ensure that no one lives there for long and that you would be telling every potential new person what she's like. A landlord wants a quiet life and a steady income- getting rid of her is the best means to do so.

LegacyUser

Move out, life is too short and it's frankly not worth the agro trying to reason. Even if you have a house meeting or the LL intervenes this person is just going to continue being a pain and most likely worse then before.

Your issue now is moving out without losing your deposit. Do you have a lease or are you part 4? If part 4 just give correct notice and move. If you've a lease are you all on the one lease or do you each have individually leases with the LL? If it's one lease then you should take to the LL about getting someone to take over the lease from you. If you've individuall lease then check with threshold about breaking it as your not able to enjoy your home due to anti social behaviour.

cloudatlas

Can't log on wrote: »

Move out, life is too short.

Life is too short for pandering to bullies.

Overheal

I don't understand advice to turn around and leave, or advice about a 1 meter restraining zone. Seriously. That's just ridiculous. It's not even worth ranting about. It's just not a realistic idea at all.

Queen-Mise

Stressedinthegaff wrote: »

I just hate her and hate this situation, it's really stressing me out. I'm afraid to leave my fcuking room for gods sake & know that now she has decided that she hates me so much, every little thing I do will be ammunition for her. I feel bullied to be honest and the fact that my other housemate isn't weighing in (with good reason probably) isn't helping matters either.

Uses earphones when you are downstairs cooking. Listen to either relaxation/classical or the hardest death metal you can manage. If you don't have to listen to her then you won't get stressed.

I'd be inclined to work out a maxim-type response to everything she says. Basically reinforce it is pointless her being OCD, bullying, or nagging you. She will get the same response whatever she says.

Don't let her bully you out. You look after your stuff, and ignore the rest.

zxcvbnm1

Queen-Mise wrote: »

Uses earphones when you are downstairs cooking. Listen to either relaxation/classical or the hardest death metal you can manage. If you don't have to listen to her then you won't get stressed.

I'd be inclined to work out a maxim-type response to everything she says. Basically reinforce it is pointless her being OCD, bullying, or nagging you. She will get the same response whatever she says.

Don't let her bully you out. You look after your stuff, and ignore the rest.

OP - I know you said you want people not to give the default answer of move out... But you cannot live on peace in those conditions.

Coming up with strategies of using earphone etc. is no way to live. You don't want everyday turning into some battle with her - even if it's just a Cold War.

For your own peace of mind just leave ASAP and put it down as bad luck.

LegacyUser

cloudatlas wrote: »

Life is too short for pandering to bullies.

So what? she has a sit down with the housemate and they have a claim discussion and she suddenly becomes the model housemate? Looking at how's she's carried on so far that's not realistic. Legally it is nothing to with the LL so she can't force the housemate to move out and even if the LL wanted her out she has rights so the OP will continue to live in the toxic environment in the mean time.

Screw this crap of having to be proven right that she's in the wrong/a bully etc....the joy of renting is you can walk away and not deal with that sort of rubbish. People can argue the principle of the issue and why should the OP have to move they've done nothing wrong till the cows come home but this isn't something that will be magically soloved overnight and why make yourself miserable dealing with crazy when you can just give it the finger and walk away?

NipNip

The OP needs to air her grievances. The OP has a legitimate grievance, the housemate has not. Air your grievances, then ignore yer wan. End of story. Don't be afraid of her either. It's your house, you're paying rent - let her go and sh*te.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for the advice and responses. I can’t tell you how helpful and supportive this thread has been.

I think what someone said about me being ‘afraid’ of her is right. She’s an absolute b1tch and her behavior has been completely unacceptable but in a sense I’ve made it easy for her to disrespect me by tiptoeing around her and spending so little time in the kitchen/living room as a result of her omni-presence in those common areas. I’ve taken the attitude of ‘screw it, I feel more comfortable in my room’ – even gone so far as eating in my room at times – when I should have been standing my ground and “marking my territory” just like she has been doing. I’m paying rent too, it’s my bloody right. In fact I’d say I’m paying more rent than her anyway as I have a double and she has a single room.

To answer some questions – yes, I fully intend on getting the hell out of dodge, but don’t have the means to dountil at least the end of the summer. I have a lot of expense coming up and a very very busy work schedule, which means no money for a new deposit or time to invest in a proper house hunt right now. Which means at least 3 – 4 more months in this house.

I spoke to th other housemate last night, which helped put things in perspective a bit. He was as expected very diplomatic and towing the line but it’s clear from what he said that this isn’t a new thing and Housemate is notoriously an “impatient” person. LOL. He said he has had no issues with me, he sees I'm pretty clean, yeah I could take out the trash more but that's something that could have been brought up in a more calm and reasoned way. He reinforced that her verbal assault was unacceptable but sensing how angered I was, advised not to confront her and to wait til I’ve calmed down a bit before the “house meeting” as otherwise it’s likely to just be a big fight. Tbh Im not even willing to sit down with her at the moment as in my mind the only purpose it would serve is for her to vent at me and knowing how vitriolic she is, that’s not something Im gonna subject myself to. She's not the 'compromising' type and is the biggest control freak going so doubtful there'll be any seeing eye to eye. And fcuk her, I'm not answerable to her, especially when she's the one who has been out of line.

So for now my plan is to spend more time in the goddamn kitchen to reinforce the point that it’s my house too and I’m not gonna be intimidated by her. And Im basically not gonna be drawn into conversation of any sort by her. Not about the trash, not about the “dirty glasses”, not about her verbal abuse, nothing. I want nothing more to do with her and am not even going to acknowledge her presence, except to politely tell her to fcuk off if she gets in my face.

Stavro Mueller

Much as I hate to see bullies win, I think you're going to have to leave. After reading your updates I don't believe a house meeting would go well for you. Reading between the lines I get the impression you're on your own when it comes to dealing with this woman - your other housemate's keeping his nose out of this. At this stage I don't think a house meeting's a good idea anyway - I've changed my mind on that after seeing how she operates.

It's all well and good to say you should stand up to this wagon, ignore her, tell her to feck off etc. but I don't think that's going to work with someone who's holed up in her bedroom afraid to cook a meal downstairs. This woman has the measure of you and she is trampling right over you. Even if you did stand up to her and the harassment stopped, could you live with someone who hates you? I think the one place you should feel happy is your home. I did plenty of house shares in my time and I came to realise that no matter how nice a house is, it's the people in it who make the difference. I accept that other people will feel differently and wouldn't care if they were sharing with.

Unless there's a track record of people leaving the house because of clashes with this woman, I doubt the landlord's going to care who's in the house. In an ideal world she should be the one who goes, not you. Can't see it happening though.

dellas1979

She just sees you as weaker and insignificant in your opinion.

But you havent done yourself any favours. Youve actually danced away to her tune (without even realising it probably). Time to change the tune.

You can go change apartments etc, but something like this will happen in your life again, and you'll be back to square 1.

Its actually a good lesson to learn.

And honestly, its an easy fix to restore the balance.

Firstly, which youve seemed to realise now from your last post, you are in the apartment, you are living there, and you do have an opinion. Hiding away isnt going to change anything.

As I said in last post, go and do your things. And stop being scared. Dont run away from her. Make your point "I hear what you are saying, but I dont agree..." "I hear what you are saying, but I wont be doing that...", "I dont want to talk to you when you are angry". "I dont think what you've said is reasonable". "Stop putting post-its around the house, I dont read them, and talk to me".

You are laying your own boundaries down. And I guarantee things will get easier.

Queen-Mise

stressedinthegaff wrote: »

So for now my plan is to spend more time in the goddamn kitchen to reinforce the point that it’s my house too and I’m not gonna be intimidated by her. And Im basically not gonna be drawn into conversation of any sort by her. Not about the trash, not about the “dirty glasses”, not about her verbal abuse, nothing. I want nothing more to do with her and am not even going to acknowledge her presence, except to politely tell her to fcuk off if she gets in my face.

Exactly so OP. Let the stuff she says bounce off you. I think moving out isn't the answer. What happens if there is another problem in the next house?

Someone criticised my post earlier as being a Cold War scenario. It is a shared
house, not a family home. These people are not your friends.
Yeah its nice if there is a friendly atmosphere in the house, but there is no guarantee or obligation that this be the case.

Butterface

Organise the housemate meeting, and make sure you know what you're going to say going into it. Ask to speak first and make sure you speak in a calm manner.

Tell her that you all have equal rights in the house and the landlord agrees as much.
Tell her that you will all keep the communal areas tidy as best you can but you are not going to try to live up to her obsessive high standards, and that there's nothing in your contract that says you have to comply with her "standards".
As another poster said, tell her if she has a problem with this then she is free to move out, but you will not put up with her bullying you any longer.
Be firm that you will not be the person moving out and that you will not be changing for her.

With people like that, you have to make sure they understand that the problem is theirs, not yours.