More job losses

fricatus

Not again!

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/concerns-over-200-bausch-lomb-job-losses-in-waterford-30314500.html

Can't we get a break? :mad:

500 jobs for Dublin, Athlone and Galway yesterday... would be nice if they'd put some of that effort our way!

PeteF

What a pity, if I'm right they were the best factory of the group in terms of quality.

KevIRL

Grim news indeed. Paycuts of up to 20% for remaining staff and threats to close the plant entirely if savings of 20m not met according to twitter machine

Thoughts go out to all those affected

spankmemunkey

I remember posting on another page about the cost of running factory's in this part of the world compared to India China etc etc its just not sustainable there's no future for factory's and processing plants in Europe any more it just costs too much for companies from outside of Ireland to locate here and run factory's.

This is the last thing Waterford needs and the people of Waterford so sad for all the workers.

How many do they employ?

Thomas D

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I remember posting on another page about the cost of running factory's in this part of the world compared to India China etc etc its just not sustainable there's no future for factory's and processing plants in Europe any more it just costs too much for companies from outside of Ireland to locate here and run factory's.

This is the last thing Waterford needs and the people of Waterford so sad for all the workers.

How many do they employ?

Exactly. It's an open global market.

What does Waterford actually offer the world? We can't throw grants at their way to setup there.

padraig.od

Thomas D wrote: »

Exactly. It's an open global market.

What does Waterford actually offer the world? We can't throw grants at their way to setup there.

Waterford, well Ireland actually offers reliable clean sources of water, which is crucial in the manufacture of contact lenses. There has been major QC issues in their other plants. The staff there have been consistently told they run the most efficient and best quality operation in the entire company so this is quiet a shock to them all.

New owners acting the maggot.

space2ground1

Cue senior politicians arriving, staring sadly at the camera, nodding in solidarity with the poor local TD, offers of training for jobs that don't exist (except in the 4 supported growing cities in Ireland) and a directions to the social welfare office.

DeanAustin

F**k sake. It gets worse.

To be fair, from what I've read, you can see B&L's reasoning behind this decision. They reckon it's cheaper to do this work in New York than Waterford which is a bit scary. And as people outlined above - there are much cheaper labour forces elsewhere.

Still sh!t for the people concerned and my heart goes out to them. We need a f**king break.

Max Powers

space2ground1 wrote: »

Cue senior politicians arriving, staring sadly at the camera, nodding in solidarity with the poor local TD, offers of training for jobs that don't exist (except in the 4 supported growing cities in Ireland) and a directions to the social welfare office.

Well its clear that they (govt) are only going to pay lip service with some small gestures thrown in, thats been their form since election. Bad news, even more of a reason for us all to support our local businesses especially pubs/restaurants and shops in the city centre to help create a vibrant city centre. A lot of good people out there killing themselves to do good work, start new businesses with zero help, support them this weekend and every week.

mozattack

Be nice to see this carry on in the public sector... what about "benchmarking now" for those lazy sods

Sully

Isn't their logic more that it's the most expensive of their operations and the wages are higher than anywhere else? Appears that's what they are looking to do, rather than shutup shop and head out of town for a cheaper operation in India.

To be honest, I can't help but shake the feeling that these type of jobs are not what we need. We need something more sustainable and steady, that wont move around depending on cost factors and so on.

A big blow to the economy here though, no doubt.

shockwave

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I remember posting on another page about the cost of running factory's in this part of the world compared to India China etc etc its just not sustainable there's no future for factory's and processing plants in Europe any more it just costs too much for companies from outside of Ireland to locate here and run factory's.

This is the last thing Waterford needs and the people of Waterford so sad for all the workers.

How many do they employ?

1100 according to the news.

MitchKoobski

From John Halligan's Facebook page around 12pm:

https://www.facebook.com/johnhalliganwaterford/posts/733011930096176

Just had a meeting with Richard Bruton and he admitted to me that he knew several months ago about the impending cuts at Bausch and Lomb. I have no doubt that the information was sat on until the Local Elections were over. He said R and D funding would be coming further down the line but this would not save the 200 jobs. Absolutely devastating blow to the city.

Sully

No government will fund the wage bill or operational costs, so the company would have done this anyway. We need perhaps more grants to get companies here, incentives for small businesses to open up. The rates won't be increased in the next five years at least, but I think we need more than that to get people operating here.

davehedgehog

Im not sure there's a whole lot a government can do in cases like this. If the government wanted to put in measures to reduce the costs they can control we'd be looking at a lower minimum wage, lower electricity costs, (even) lower tax rates they'd be slated for pandering to the big corporations even more than they are doing now.

The company say they can do business cheaper in New York, I find this very hard to believe, especially if they are moving any existing manufacturing from Waterford to New York with the setup costs etc to be taken into account. Maybe i watch too much TV but this looks like a deal done high up the food chain to me...

Also for people who say these companies are better off in India or China, if this was the case they would be there already. People underestimate the costs and other implications of moving manufacturing sites once setup. I think Irelands biggest competition for new Medical Device Manufacturing is with other European countries but our costs are as low if not lower than a lot of these countries at the moment.

davehedgehog

MitchKoobski wrote: »

From John Halligan's Facebook page around 12pm:

I remember a simialr story from a big pharma company in cork a few years back. Dogs on the street knew a company was pulling a large investment but announcement was delayed for weeks. Was officially announced a few days after an election. Im sure that courtsey wasnt given free of charge

wobbles

You'd wonder how much more the people of waterford can take. Job announcements in other large citys job losses here.

Most despicable of all is sitting on the news until after the election is over. The workers deserved to know that their job was in jeopardy and could have planned accordingly

DeanAustin

wobbles wrote: »

You'd wonder how much more the people of waterford can take. Job announcements in other large citys job losses here.

Most despicable of all is sitting on the news until after the election is over. The workers deserved to know that their job was in jeopardy and could have planned accordingly

I see what you're saying but most people would do the same if they were in the government's shoes. I'm not saying that makes it morally right but it's the truth. I'd doubt the employees will be any worse off than if this was announced a couple of weeks ago.

spankmemunkey

padraig.od wrote: »

Waterford, well Ireland actually offers reliable clean sources of water, which is crucial in the manufacture of contact lenses. There has been major QC issues in their other plants. The staff there have been consistently told they run the most efficient and best quality operation in the entire company so this is quiet a shock to them all.

New owners acting the maggot.

This is a bit of an undersell really CLEAN WATER? is that it? it would be still cheaper for them to use filtration systems its not turning water into wine is it?

India already produce a huge amount of the worlds medical devices so next time you have to go to hospital chances are if your being cut open your being cut open by a knife produced in India Pakistan etc etc. again as i said before google BBC Panorama and medical devices and you will be shocked by the amount of outsourcing in India where your medical instruments are being made one guy was sharpening them on the side of the road.

Honestly dont presume things are all done to the finest standards its all about the money and the bottom line. The whole face of shopping and world of retail and production are changing rapidly and will never be the same again. Foreign companies with production plants in Ireland will be a thing of the past in years to come its far too expensive.

spankmemunkey

RTE has reported that 200 are gone and that possibly another 900 more will go!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0529/620365-waterford-jobs/

JPA

spankmemunkey wrote: »

RTE has reported that 200 are gone and that possibly another 900 more will go!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0529/620365-waterford-jobs/

Cut costs or close as the original article says, just laid out more starkly by Rte

padraig.od

spankmemunkey wrote: »

This is a bit of an undersell really CLEAN WATER? is that it? it would be still cheaper for them to use filtration systems its not turning water into wine is it?

India already produce a huge amount of the worlds medical devices so next time you have to go to hospital chances are if your being cut open your being cut open by a knife produced in India Pakistan etc etc. again as i said before google BBC Panorama and medical devices and you will be shocked by the amount of outsourcing in India where your medical instruments are being made one guy was sharpening them on the side of the road.

Honestly dont presume things are all done to the finest standards its all about the money and the bottom line. The whole face of shopping and world of retail and production are changing rapidly and will never be the same again. Foreign companies with production plants in Ireland will be a thing of the past in years to come its far too expensive.

Yes, a clean reliable source of water. Production is not possible without it. Production in their Brazilian plant shut down last year as the water wasn't clean enough, filtration system or not.

KOTSC

I remember the election leaflet I got in the mail last week for the fine gael EU candidates promising jobs/stability/growth- a week after the euro electios we hear about this situation in bausch and lomb-so to anyone who voted for the fine gael euro candidates based on the leaflet promises about jobs and growth- hows the jobs and growth working out for you one week later post elections ?

CatFromHue

I'm just wondering what can/could the govt do to stop this?

Finnbar01

davehedgehog wrote: »

Im not sure there's a whole lot a government can do in cases like this. If the government wanted to put in measures to reduce the costs they can control we'd be looking at a lower minimum wage, lower electricity costs, (even) lower tax rates they'd be slated for pandering to the big corporations even more than they are doing now.

The company say they can do business cheaper in New York, I find this very hard to believe, especially if they are moving any existing manufacturing from Waterford to New York with the setup costs etc to be taken into account. Maybe i watch too much TV but this looks like a deal done high up the food chain to me...

Also for people who say these companies are better off in India or China, if this was the case they would be there already. People underestimate the costs and other implications of moving manufacturing sites once setup. I think Irelands biggest competition for new Medical Device Manufacturing is with other European countries but our costs are as low if not lower than a lot of these countries at the moment.

Are they though?

padraig.od

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm just wondering what can/could the govt do to stop this?

Well they are the majority shareholder in the ESB. Anything that could be done to push down electricity prices would help. Staff salaries are in part a function of tax burden on individual workers, so lowering personal taxation would help. Employer PRSI is in the governments control...

Those are just general measures that would help the entire economy. I doubt there is anything that can be done for B&L in particular.

O Riain

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm just wondering what can/could the govt do to stop this?

Nothing. Job losses in this day and age are happening all too regularly.

The issue here is that we are creating ZERO jobs and this is where the Government could be helping us but quiet simply are not.
2 years in power and all the government has given us is planning permission for an advanced technology plant, but the other cities have gotten the same planning permission

We are so behind the other cities it is ridiculous and nothing is being done to bring us up to scratch.

The people of Waterford have been too quiet for too long. We need to act guys. Start marching, making loads of noise, getting in the right peoples faces because it is not just sad at this stage it is absolutely ridiculous.

As for the holding off the announcement until after the elections, well that's just disgraceful. Oh and it's once again good to see the Fine Gael boys unable to criticise their own party even when their party is absolutely screwing the city.

I don't understand you guys to be totally honest, this is the place you grew up in, you're friends and family live here this is the place that made you. It is obvious you're party doesn't give two sh*ts about the Déise yet you toe the line. Shame on you.

cookie.monster

i bet ciara conway came outta the wood work to get in front of the camera all smiles like she did at talk talk

fiachr_a

Anyone thinks austerity is almost over is wrong, it hasn't started yet! It will get a lot worse in Waterford in the next few years. Most of those people elected last week either made false promises or just don't understand the economy. Those newly elected MEPs can't remove the EU Council's clause that ties Ireland to austerity for future years. In 2008, Ireland's debt was about 25% GDP, this year it's over 123%. Irish banks that remained are now stronger due to less competition here. There has been no business structural reforms made here in recent years. The only way forward for Waterford is to hope the Brits keep voting UKIP and indirectly send multinationals to Ireland!

Cabaal

Guys can you please keep the general political stuff out of this thread please and keep it on topic, if you want to rant about politics in general or talk about UKIP then please go to the political forum.

Thanks

spankmemunkey

Is there no talk about the pay scales they were on out there? everybody knows that they paid very well for at the end of the day is a factory, people were getting taken on and trained up. I know theres people with Degrees etc etc but the general work base were getting too much money and thats the problem at the end of the day the cost base is too high here. again i feel sorry for the staff and everybody out there cos this WILL impact everybody who lives in Waterford one way or another but i wouldnt be feeling safe in any factory that was a foreign company paying good wages for jobs that are unskilled work.

JPA

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Is there no talk about the pay scales they were on out there? everybody knows that they paid very well for at the end of the day is a factory, people were getting taken on and trained up. I know theres people with Degrees etc etc but the general work base were getting too much money and thats the problem at the end of the day the cost base is too high here. again i feel sorry for the staff and everybody out there cos this WILL impact everybody who lives in Waterford one way or another but i wouldnt be feeling safe in any factory that was a foreign company paying good wages for jobs that are unskilled work.

Wages are the average, or slightly below, the industry standard. Wages are not out of proportion.

Hijpo

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Is there no talk about the pay scales they were on out there? everybody knows that they paid very well for at the end of the day is a factory, people were getting taken on and trained up. I know theres people with Degrees etc etc but the general work base were getting too much money and thats the problem at the end of the day the cost base is too high here. again i feel sorry for the staff and everybody out there cos this WILL impact everybody who lives in Waterford one way or another but i wouldnt be feeling safe in any factory that was a foreign company paying good wages for jobs that are unskilled work.

i take exception to that statement

They are skilled jobs that require a lot of training and the employees must adhere to strict quality compliance due to it being a medical devices manufacturer. They are not assembling two peice jig saws.

Bigger picture, its over one thousand people in the city with 20% less disposable income.

TheQuietFella

Bad news indeed for all connected with the plant & a lot of restless nights going into the future. Pay cuts no doubt will have to be accepted for the future of the plant & that will not be easy. I would assume that the application for redundancies will be over subscribed & I'm sure the vast majority will be accepted.

As for the future I wouldn't hold out much hope for the company remaining in Waterford.
Unemployment is still quite high in the U.S. & even though it is Canadian owned I think the work will revert back to Rochester.

Waterford is not on any governmental radar in my opinion. The closure of a world renown crystal manufacturing facility, the loss of 800 jobs & the subsequent monies generated by touring groups would not have been allowed to have happened if it had been Dublin or Cork.
A greater effort to save it would have ensued!

We are now quickly becoming the Liverpool of Ireland, treated abysmally by the then Conservative government. With little or no investment in the future of this once proud County & we only have ourselves to blame through sheer complacency.

I hope for the sake of all those involved in B&L it can be saved but just bare in mind the plight of Bus Eireann workers who are fighting against the privatisation of Waterford routes that like the Tramore Train, once it's gone it will never come back!

fuzzy dunlop

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Bad news indeed for all connected with the plant & a lot of restless nights going into the future. Pay cuts no doubt will have to be accepted for the future of the plant & that will not be easy. I would assume that the application for redundancies will be over subscribed & I'm sure the vast majority will be accepted.

As for the future I wouldn't hold out much hope for the company remaining in Waterford.
Unemployment is still quite high in the U.S. & even though it is Canadian owned I think the work will revert back to Rochester.

Waterford is not on any governmental radar in my opinion. The closure of a world renown crystal manufacturing facility, the loss of 800 jobs & the subsequent monies generated by touring groups would not have been allowed to have happened if it had been Dublin or Cork.
A greater effort to save it would have ensued!

We are now quickly becoming the Liverpool of Ireland, treated abysmally by the then Conservative government. With little or no investment in the future of this once proud County & we only have ourselves to blame through sheer complacency.

I hope for the sake of all those involved in B&L it can be saved but just bare in mind the plight of Bus Eireann workers who are fighting against the privatisation of Waterford routes that like the Tramore Train, once it's gone it will never come back!

As anologies go re: Liverpool then it isn't an inacurate one.

nostrils

Even if the remaining 900 agree to the 20% cut I'd give it a year or two max and the rest of these jobs phased out,

I'd reckon they already have another low wage country earmarked and will pull out of Ireland soon as possible.

Hijpo

The fact that they are already setting out their aims to decrease costs it will only take the first bit of resistance or a cost reducing target not being met for them to declare the place unfeasibl.

mooseknunkle

The place will be closed down within a year this is the beginning of the end unfortunately.

Wanderer2010

Waterford will be a complete and utter ghost-town in a year or so if something isnt done about these losses, we really have suffered a LOT more than Dublin and Cork and Galway, for the first time ever I actually dont want my kids to grow up in this city because there is nothing to keep them here..

Hijpo

The only way to make a living will be to open a coffee shop in town somewhere

er1983

There's enough coffee shops in town IMO, there never all full when I pass them

obezyana

Hijpo wrote: »

The only way to make a living will be to open a coffee shop in town somewhere

Sure at this stage no one will be working and have the money to be sitting out having a coffee.

PTH2009

Education is the only way to go in this town or jobsbridge and ce shemes. It's beyond a joke.

The highest education I have is a higher cert in tourism and I open up the Waterford today and see a prime position (the Viking triangle volunteers) as a volunteering organisation and them meeting a highly paid ambassador of some sort .That's a paid job I'd love to have. I'm hopefully going back to wit to get my tourism degree but if I got offered a good factory job id take it but in this city i doubt that will happen. Hopefully I mite pick up a job in the new supermarket on Ballybricken but that won't open til at least 2016

To get a job in a supermarket or hasbro it's not what you know it's who u know. Ah owl Mary's nephew need an oul job ah Sure we will give it to him

Hijpo

obezyana wrote: »

Sure at this stage no one will be working and have the money to be sitting out having a coffee.

Just because your not working doesnt mean you cant sit outside drinking coffee

garp

Average Unemployment rate in Ireland.......11.8%
Average Unemployment rate in Waterford.. 19%

Something has to give.
Something has to be done.
Waterford is becoming the land that time forgot.

nostrils

Vacancies as interns on the job bridge scheme will all that will be offered to the first 200 unfortunate employees to go first

obezyana

Hijpo wrote: »

Just because your not working doesnt mean you cant sit outside drinking coffee

Just because some one looses their job doesn't mean it's a go for them to open a coffee shop, as said before the town is full of em......or was full of em.

Hijpo

obezyana wrote: »

Just because some one looses their job doesn't mean it's a go for them to open a coffee shop, as said before the town is full of em......or was full of em.

Supply and demand, plenty of coffee drinkers hanging around most of the day and bruton was telling us all about the incentives and avenues for funding SME's... sure well be flying again in no time with his advice.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Supply and demand, plenty of coffee drinkers hanging around most of the day and bruton was telling us all about the incentives and avenues for funding SME's... sure well be flying again in no time with his advice.

Widely reported it's the SME's that will get us back on our feet tbh.

Motivator

Sully wrote: »

Isn't their logic more that it's the most expensive of their operations and the wages are higher than anywhere else? Appears that's what they are looking to do, rather than shutup shop and head out of town for a cheaper operation in India.

To be honest, I can't help but shake the feeling that these type of jobs are not what we need. We need something more sustainable and steady, that wont move around depending on cost factors and so on.

A big blow to the economy here though, no doubt.

I was only thinking the same today, Eishtec is a prime example. Yes they're employing a few hundred people & I'm happy they're doing so but there's nothing stopping them shutting up shop in the morning & moving their operation elsewhere.

What's happening in this town is beyond scary. 200 peoples lives ruined today & there's no other way of looking at it. How long is it until the other 900 are laid off? All it will take is for the union to play hard ball & B&L will pull the plug.

When is this going to stop? When will enough be enough? I've been saying it for years, Waterford is a kip. It has been for years & today it just became an even bigger kip. I'm sick of it now & this evening I sat down with the wife to discuss getting out of here once & for all.

kuang1

Motivator wrote: »

I was only thinking the same today, Eishtec is a prime example. Yes they're employing a few hundred people & I'm happy they're doing so but there's nothing stopping them shutting up shop in the morning & moving their operation elsewhere.

What's happening in this town is beyond scary. 200 peoples lives ruined today & there's no other way of looking at it. How long is it until the other 900 are laid off? All it will take is for the union to play hard ball & B&L will pull the plug.

When is this going to stop? When will enough be enough? I've been saying it for years, Waterford is a kip. It has been for years & today it just became an even bigger kip. I'm sick of it now & this evening I sat down with the wife to discuss getting out of here once & for all.

Not really living up to your username there motivator!