Garage switched engine without telling me

pquinn232

Guys,

In December I bought a new car from a large dealer in Galway, who I won't name unless the mods give me permission. (These guys are huge, high profile operators). After a service yesterday, this is the email I've had to send them this morning.

I'd like thoughts on what I should be asking from them.

Thanks

Concerned in Galway

__________

Dear XXXX,

Further to my text message to you last night.

In December, I purchased a Mercedes E200 reg xxx xxx xxx from you for a total price of €12,500.

In your advertisement, the car was advertised in Mint condition.

In the five months since I picked the car up from you in January:

- The main front suspension collapsed, when I was driving the car, causing me to crash, and causing significant bodywork damage. I could, very easily, have been killed.

- Every balljoint in the front suspension (separate to the collapse) has failed and needed to be replaced.

- Every brakepad was worn, and needed immediate replacement

- The car has significant electronic faults, including in the transmission module.

- The Engine failed in February, causing me to have to return the car to you for repair under warranty. At the time, you kept the car for a month, telling me both personally and through your staff that the car needed "new camshafts".

- It now transpires that the car has been fitted with a replacement engine, from a 2003 C180 Mercedes. This work was carried out without me being informed.

You advertised this car to me as being in "Mint condition" - that was an absolute lie.

You told me you repaired the engine - that was an absolute lie, because you replaced the engine with one four years older.

Since I purchased this car from you, I have had to spend €3,000 on repairs, and €600 in tax.

I will be making a complaint, about all of the above, to the SIMI. Further, I will, should the outcome be unsatisfactory, be taking you through the courts and affixing you with all costs. Third, in the interim I will use my professional role as a media professional to warn others, using every available local and national medium, to check the engine in any car bought from you.

Before I do so, I will give you 24 hours to propose a solution to this situation.

I obviously have all records of repairs done, contacts with your garage, and the contract for sale we both signed at the time the car was bought, and will rely on them and other evidence to make the case against you, which is overwhelming.

On a personal level, I am absolutely disgusted by the behaviour of your organisation. I treated you fairly, gave you all the time you asked, paid in full, and on reflection, accepted treatment that should have sent me running a mile.

Rest assured, I will not be letting this matter drop. I look forward to hearing from you immediately on what you propose to do by way of resolution.

Yours sincerely,

xxxxx

djimi

Id leave out the threats if I were you (reporting them to SIMI means nothing and threatening to go to the media isnt a very mature way of starting a correspondence like this and isnt likely to make them take you terribly seriously). Stick to the facts and request that you meet to discuss a resolution. If they arent prepared to meet or deal with you then you can start threatening the appropriate legal action.

corktina

I bet he laughed his socks off at you complaining to SIMI. That is a waste of time....you need a Solicitor to persue this

Zubeneschamali

I'd leave out the personal disgust, too.

You don't give any hints on what sort of resolution you want - money? The busted engine back? Replacement car? What?

aristotle25

Emails and letters are fine but arrange to meet the owner\managing director.

I did that previously when I had an issue with a BMW dealer and I got a resolution I wanted. In my case the owner was pretty fearful of BMW Ireland finding out so maybe "Mercedes Ireland" being informed would be something they would want to avoid, assuming this is a Merc dealership you bought from.

pquinn232

See that's the kind of thing I need to know. I'm not a total clown when it comes to the basic mechanics of a car, but this stuff - SIMI and all that - I know nothing about.

The threats may be weren't a great idea, but man was I hopping mad. They had the thing for two weeks, telling me they were replacing camshafts. Instead they've stuck in an 11 year old engine, which obviously has insurance implications.

I'd like to go down there and burn the place down, really, so I came here looking for calmer heads.

pquinn232

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'd leave out the personal disgust, too.

You don't give any hints on what sort of resolution you want - money? The busted engine back? Replacement car? What?

Really that's what I'd like advice on. If it happened to any of you guys, what would ye be asking for?

I'd accept a newer car, a full refund (including what I've spent on the car) or a cheque to cover the cost of the loss I'll now suffer if I was to try to sell the thing.

hallo dare

Give us a hint OP, at least the companies initials.

pquinn232

Well if you wanted to find them, you'd go to <snip>a. Can't really miss them when you're there.

wexie

How did you find out about the engine OP?

(I'm not going to give you any advice on what to do cause if it'd been me I'd have driven the car into the showroom and demanded another right then and there)

hallo dare

Bloody knew it, and that's just one of their places. I dealt with that spot once before and once was more than enough. Never again!!!!

tf2

You make some good points, but I'd leave out the threats. Woudnt be any harm to get a solicitor to word it and send on your behalf. Registered post too. These things get lost

pquinn232

wexie wrote: »

How did you find out about the engine OP?

(I'm not going to give you any advice on what to do cause if it'd been me I'd have driven the car into the showroom and demanded another right then and there)

I wasn't a fan of the garage - had a bad feeling about them, so when it was time to get the car serviced I took it to my local mechanic, who has some merc experience.

The spark plugs wouldn't fit when he tried to change them, so he took a closer look and ran an engine number check.

Wossack

best you can really hope for is a refund of what you paid for the car

doubt your costs (repairs & tax) are recoverable


whats surprising, is that you took it back after the suspension failure

wexie

hmmm....even if these guys aren't Merc dealers, if they are any kind of brand dealers I'd imagine the parent organisation would be interested.
Just because it's not their brand it still speaks for the behaviour of the dealer representing the brand...

Disgraceful carry on.

pquinn232

Wossack wrote: »

best you can really hope for is a refund of what you paid for the car

doubt your costs (repairs & tax) are recoverable


whats surprising, is that you took it back after the suspension failure

It cost €900 to repair it - and I had it done by the same guy who's just serviced it, who is very trustworthy. My only regret is that I didn't know him when I bought the bloody thing, and had him take a look at it.

I figured, probably stupidly, that I'd just repair it and move on, that the car was running fine and I was happy to improve it myself. I can't improve a 2003 engine, from a smaller car, that this crowd fitted without telling me, though.

ryan101

You want to get them to agree to returning the car to them, money back, full refund, don't accept anything else. You don't want to be dealing with these people over another car. Meet directly with the owner first, see how that goes, and tell him it's all gone too far, and you want to give him a last opportunity to quietly sort it out, see what he says, before you go to Mercedes Ireland, SIMI, Public and the legal route. Take your time in the meeting. Always keep it about the car and not them, but tell them some of their remedy's, without your consent, were not acceptable. Be aware that once you go down the solicitor route (and you may have to), and it's their solicitor verses theirs, it will take years to sort out.

pquinn232

Thing is, they came recommended. "Family business, ah shure the aul lad is very good" etc.

Never. Again. I figure most of you probably know who I'm talking about at this stage - and never, in a million years, would I give them a red cent.

ryan101

Also, visit a good solicitor before you hold that last meeting(s) with the garage owner, and he'll also give you some advice how to handle said meetings and what to say. A good solicitor will also advise you to try to sort it one last time out before it goes full legal as well, but it sounds like it might have to. In my experience these type of crooks will fight it to the end in the hope you'll eventually go away / wear down / give up, so be prepared for the long haul.

dutopia

I would definitely talk to a solicitor about this if they don't offer a satisfactory solution very quickly. This isn't just a breach of consumer law but a major dereliction of due care.

pquinn232

UPDATE:

The Garage have called me, and say they're going to "put a proposal to me" on Tuesday.

Will let you all know what it is they intend to offer.

Thanks all for the advice.

tossy

I would imagine the proposal is another car from their stock, out of the frying pan and into the fire potentially, proceed with caution.

CatFromHue

pquinn232 wrote: »

UPDATE:

The Garage have called me, and say they're going to "put a proposal to me" on Tuesday.

Will let you all know what it is they intend to offer.

Thanks all for the advice.

It'd still be a good idea to see if you can get some legal advice before you talk to them all the same.

aristotle25

Thinking about it the only thing I would accept is money back and walk away. You cannot trust these guys to give you another car.

It is hard to believe what they have done, what a shower.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

aristotle25 wrote: »

Thinking about it the only thing I would accept is money back and walk away. You cannot trust these guys to give you another car.

It is hard to believe what they have done, what a shower.

+1
Tell them it's money back now, or money+costs back if you need a solicitor

Fozzie Bear

pquinn232 wrote: »

Well if you wanted to find them, you'd go to portumna. Can't really miss them when you're there.

I've yet to hear anything good about that crowd. Good luck with your claim OP. You'll need it I fear.

My brother went to college with one of the sons of that business several years ago. At the time I was selling/trading a 1.4 VW Golf I had with 125,000 miles on it. My brother mentioned it to his class mate who informed him they would happily trade a car like that, knock the mileage back down and the re-sale price up. Absolute chancers!

Steady Zeddy

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

+1
Tell them it's money back now, or money+costs back if you need a solicitor

A mate of mine bought a car from them last year (against my advice) and it was absolutely in terrible (not roadworthy) condition. They were of the opinion "you bought it as you saw it boss" - so I went up with my mate to the dealers and parked outside the showroom and refused to move until the situtation was resolved. They suggested that they'd make the relevant repairs so that it would be NCT worthy - so I went through the list of parts with them which would have been twice the value of the car (€4K Mazda 6).

We simply insisted on getting our money back and weren't going anywhere until we got it (and they weren't going to be selling any cars with us standing outside their showrooms) - after two hours we got back the full value paid.

BigEejit

Haha, OP should take a day off work (or maybe do it on a Saturday) and bring his pile of crap car he bought off them and park near the entrance with a big board on the roof setting out what was broken and had to be replaced ... and of course the crash caused by overly worn/dangerous parts and wrong engine they put in it.... March up and down with a sandwich board with the information as well..... That will soon get them out to "make a deal"

kona

You sound like a clown in that email tbh

Mod note: user banned for uncivil

alias no.9

I've heard it said that you'll get the best price on a new car from them but don't ever dream of buying a used car there

Bobo78

I would never buy any car at all from them. Last year I went to see one car that was described as mint low mileage car but when i went to see the car it was a proper ruined muck of a thing parked out in the filed surrounded by other pile of muck.
My advice just stay away from them for good.

Sam Kade

kona wrote: »

You sound like a clown in that email tbh

It's ear grating alright but I suppose you would be fairly pissed off if the same happened you.

kona

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's ear grating alright but I suppose you would be fairly pissed off if the same happened you.

Absoloutley, the OP has been treated like **** and should get onto the dealer.

Best course of action is a solicitors letter, making threats of using your position as a "media professional" (what the hell is that? you could be handing out the metro ffs) to instigate a campaign of slander and liabel is just going to land the OP with a P45 and a hefty legal bill.

Personally if I was the dealer and treat customers that bad Id be throwing that letter in the bin after laughing at it. He wouldnt laugh at a solicitors letter and a potential loss of over 12,5K.

ryan101

kona wrote: »

You sound like a clown in that email tbh

The only clown is the dealer.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

kona wrote: »

Absoloutley, the OP has been treated like **** and should get onto the dealer.

Best course of action is a solicitors letter, making threats of using your position as a "media professional" (what the hell is that? you could be handing out the metro ffs) to instigate a campaign of slander and liabel is just going to land the OP with a P45 and a hefty legal bill.

Personally if I was the dealer and treat customers that bad Id be throwing that letter in the bin after laughing at it. He wouldnt laugh at a solicitors letter and a potential loss of over 12,5K.

'Slander and libel' do not exist in Ireland, the equivalent is known as defamation and in this case the OP would have a good defence of truthfulness. So blab all you want OP because they can't touch you if you do.

peasant

Doesn't fitting a new engine without informing your insurance about this (which you obviously couldn't) void your insurance policy?

If so *, you have to stop driving the car now (that you know) and/or sort this with your insurance.

And as driving without insurance (which they forced you to do unwittingly) is also a pretty serious criminal matter, I personally wouldn't be prepared to wait for an "offer" on Tuesday. I'd want my money back tomorrow or I'd be showing up for "negotiations" on Tuesday with a Garda car in company.


* better check before you do anything rash

Idbatterim

I wouldnt buy anything without having it checked first, certainly not anything over a few grand, dont trust them as far as you can throw them is usually a good starting point, I had a car checked out by Frank Fahey in oranmore who came highly recommended, think it was only E50 for a comprehensive check, road test etc...

NewApproach

You lost an awful lot of credibility when you said this imo.

pquinn232 wrote: »

Third, in the interim I will use my professional role as a media professional to warn others, using every available local and national medium, to check the engine in any car bought from you.

padma

Drive down with the car and leave it outside their office...hand in the keys..tell them you will be back to collect your money in a few hours and will bring the logbook with you otherwise you will be forced to go the legal route..advise them it doesnt feel safe driving a car which is not as you bought it...then walk away..dont argue..just walk..

They will ring you within 2 hours...if they dont andbplay hardball...stroll up to your solicitor and begin proceedings...remembering that they have your car and money sitting in their yard..

String

Is changing the engine and not telling the customer even legal? Could be classed as theft, taking a newer engine out that could be fixable. I wouldn't take anything other than money back.

Patrickheg

I'd ask the mods to delete this thread until you see how the meeting goes. If the garage owner reads it in the meantime he might change his tack for the meeting next tuesday.

Nothing more to be gained from this thread, it's just being used as a venting ground for the dealer as well as going round in circles

goz83

.

goz83

Make sure they admit to changing the engine without informing you. If they don't it could be your word and theirs. Phone conversations are not as easily recorded (legally) as an email.

Toyotafanboi

goz83 wrote: »

Make sure they admit to changing the engine without informing you. If they don't it could be your word and theirs. Phone conversations are not as easily recorded (legally) as an email.

im sure they won't have to admit it. every engine has an individual code just like a chassis code. all it would take is to verify the engine code in the car isn't the one on the logbook. i think then you could say beyond reasonable what happened.

martinr5232

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

im sure they won't have to admit it. every engine has an individual code just like a chassis code. all it would take is to verify the engine code in the car isn't the one on the logbook. i think then you could say beyond reasonable what happened.

That will only prove the engine was changed but it wont prove that the garage in question changed it.
If it goes legal that will be a very important detail.

Toyotafanboi

martinr5232 wrote: »

That will only prove the engine was changed but it wont prove that the garage in question changed it.
If it goes legal that will be a very important detail.

that's true.

however it sounds like the OP knows the car it was removed from by means of a motorcheck/ cartell report. i'm sure if you had the reg it would be possible to contact the cars last registered owner or find out where it was issued its end of life cert etc and then ask them for proof of what date and to whom they sold the engine.

difficult bit of tracking down, but not impossible.

pquinn232

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

that's true.

however it sounds like the OP knows the car it was removed from by means of a motorcheck/ cartell report. i'm sure if you had the reg it would be possible to contact the cars last registered owner or find out where it was issued its end of life cert etc and then ask them for proof of what date and to whom they sold the engine.

difficult bit of tracking down, but not impossible.

I know that they did it. I know when they did it. I can prove both beyond any doubt, so you can take that as read.

And yeah, they've voided my insurance policy.

pquinn232

Besides, two things apply here:

When they sold me the car, they handed me the logbook. Even if they tried (in the face of proof) to suggest the engine was replaced before they took ownership of the car, they handed me a logbook with false details on it.

Second, they had to, as they put it, "change the camshafts". At that stage, had they actually done that work, they would have known that it was a different engine, and decided not to tell me.

Anyway, since yesterday, my own mechanic traced the engine that was put into it. I know what car it came out of. So there's no doubt what happened here.

Still fuming by the way, which is why I included that ill-judged line about publicity in the original email.

Thanks to one and all for your advice, by the way. Really appreciated.

Henry Ford III

Nasty business OP and I hope you get satisfaction.

Can I ask what checks you did on the vehicle before purchase though? Sounds like it was a complete lemon.

celica00

wow , i wish u the best of luck, let us know how it goes if u dont mind.

dharn

When you buy a car from a main franchised dealer you dont expect that sh**