10 More Years Of Austerity - John Bruton

Going Forward

Something to look forward to:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/john-bruton-ireland-faces-10-more-years-of-austerity-budgets-1.1812651

Looks like from his position (not seeking election) that he is talking straight.

"Mr Bruton said the Irish people themselves had passed a referendum on the EU Fiscal Compact treaty which commits Ireland to reducing the debt/GDP ratio from 120 per cent to 60 per cent.

That referendum was passed by an almost two to one margin in 2012."

Couple this with two more E2bn budgets of cuts/savings/tax increases and it's hard to be optimistic.

It's almost refreshing to not hear of turning corners and green shoots.

Borderfox

I had forgotten who he was then I seen his picture, ruined my night seeing that areshole again. Jabba the hut head on him with the doom and gloom

Corvo

*books ticket to Canada*

shopaholic01

Great news!

Nodin

Going Forward wrote: »

Something to look forward to:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/john-bruton-ireland-faces-10-more-years-of-austerity-budgets-1.1812651

Looks like from his position (not seeking election) that he is talking straight.

"Mr Bruton said the Irish people themselves had passed a referendum on the EU Fiscal Compact treaty which commits Ireland to reducing the debt/GDP ratio from 120 per cent to 60 per cent.

That referendum was passed by an almost two to one margin in 2012."

Couple this with two more E2bn budgets of cuts/savings/tax increases and it's hard to be optimistic.

It's almost refreshing to not hear of turning corners and green shoots.

I'd say his next call from his brother will be a laugh.

Frank Lee Midere

Borderfox wrote: »

I had forgotten who he was then I seen his picture, ruined my night seeing that areshole again. Jabba the hut head on him with the doom and gloom

Well that's really demolished his argument. I was worried but then you said he looked like Jabba.

Turtwig

But...we never had austerity?

Pre-boom level budgets and hardship for many, yes, but austerity seems to have been redefined because Ireland actually hasn't had it. Or maybe with the apparent redefinition it has?

comongethappy

If he is keen to get back to massive annual deficits that the workers have to pay back, then he's off his trolley.

Banjo String

John says we haven't experienced austerity yet.

From his Garda guarded mansion in Kildare. Probably.

Arthur Beesley

Corvo wrote: »

*books ticket to Canada*

When are you heading off?

Aidric

Unfortunately John is symptomatic of the dangerous and lazy group think in Europe that was served a wake up call in the recent elections.

The combination of apathy and protest votes should serve as a wake up call to the EU leaders.

Lawrence1895

Banjo String wrote: »

John says we haven't experienced austerity yet.

From his Garda guarded mansion in Kildare. Probably.

I think, he lives somewhere on Griffith Avenue, so I heard

Banjo String

Lars1916 wrote: »

I think, he lives somewhere on Griffith Avenue, so I heard

No he lives in Kildare.

Right next door to me actually. I'm half thinking of getting a few Garda outside the house like he has. Call it keeping up with the Brutons.

jjbrien

Lars1916 wrote: »

I think, he lives somewhere on Griffith Avenue, so I heard

His Bro Richard Bruton is the one on Griffith Avenue

Lawrence1895

jjbrien wrote: »

His Bro Richard Bruton is the one on Griffith Avenue

But still, they are a nice bunch of lads, are they?

Nodin

Lars1916 wrote: »

But still, they are a nice bunch of lads, are they?

No, tbh, they aren't.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Steppenwolfe

I can't abide the man, never could. I always had to switch channels whenever he came on with his smug dopey smile.

Lawrence1895

Nodin wrote: »

No, tbh, they aren't.

I know, they are not. I met Richard and John looks like Bertie Ahern with a fake moustache on the picture in that link.

Was just trying to be a bit sarcastic, which is a good way to defeat politicians, who betray the electorate and lie to their very own people.

steddyeddy

Austerity doesn't have to mean the lower earners take most of the burden.

Tail Docker

steddyeddy wrote: »

Austerity doesn't have to mean the lower earners take most of the burden.

yeah, but somehow, I'm gonna bet it does mean just that.

steddyeddy

Tail Docker wrote: »

yeah, but somehow, I'm gonna bet it does mean just that.

Exactly. There's no such thing as anti pr pro austerity in a recession. The only disagreement is where that austerity falls.

Tail Docker

steddyeddy wrote: »

Exactly. There's no such thing as anti pr pro austerity in a recession. The only disagreement is where that austerity falls.

Whenever I hear a Politician advocating/selling austerity, I always think of Haughey - "We have to tighten our belts" - I always wonder how tight their belts will be tightened. The answer is usually not very. "We" is a wonderfully un-inclusive word.

WakeUp

At the top of the Irish times article it says this "former Taoiseach says only 30 per cent of Irelands debt is from bank bailout" only. really.

What it should say is current chairman of IFSC Ireland says only 30 percent of Irelands debt is from bank bailout. For Bruton to tacitly imply that this figure is insignificant is disingenous. tell the people the truth John and the truth is that a write down of that debt would make a significant difference. And while youre at it have a word to your FG mate Noonan and tell him to release the letter from the former president of the ECB to Brian Lenihan, unilaterally. The ECB have blocked the release of Jean-Claude Trichets letter where its specualted they threatened us that they would cut of our emergency funding if we refused to enter their bailout programme. Its in the national and public interest to release this letter, unilaterally if need be.

ryan101

Going Forward wrote: »

Something to look forward to:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/john-bruton-ireland-faces-10-more-years-of-austerity-budgets-1.1812651

Looks like from his position (not seeking election) that he is talking straight.

"Mr Bruton said the Irish people themselves had passed a referendum on the EU Fiscal Compact treaty which commits Ireland to reducing the debt/GDP ratio from 120 per cent to 60 per cent.

That referendum was passed by an almost two to one margin in 2012."

Couple this with two more E2bn budgets of cuts/savings/tax increases and it's hard to be optimistic.

It's almost refreshing to not hear of turning corners and green shoots.

I wonder what austerity Mr Bruton has had to endure ?

delw

Lars1916 wrote: »

I think, he lives somewhere on Griffith Avenue, so I heard

Banjo String wrote: »

No he lives in Kildare.

Right next door to me actually. I'm half thinking of getting a few Garda outside the house like he has. Call it keeping up with the Brutons.

Maybe he has two gaffs

Tail Docker

ryan101 wrote: »

I wonder what austerity Mr Bruton has had to endure ?

Not a feckin iota, and he never will either.

Going Forward

Borderfox wrote: »

I had forgotten who he was then I seen his picture, ruined my night seeing that areshole again. Jabba the hut head on him with the doom and gloom

I just can't help thinking of his "Donkey Laugh" from Scrap Saturday years ago.

Gloomtastic!

Tail Docker wrote: »

Not a feckin iota, and he never will either.

He's had his €150k pension reduced to €120k. Merkel will get €75k when she retires. Yep, I wonder why we're broke......

comongethappy

ryan101 wrote: »

I wonder what austerity Mr Bruton has had to endure ?

He was on the Sean O'Rourke show this morning saying he can now only afford no more than €300 on body glitter per month.

Cookie_Monster

steddyeddy wrote: »

Austerity doesn't have to mean the lower earners take most of the burden.

it would make a nice change though.

steddyeddy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it would make a nice change though.

Yes most of the lecturers I work with had to give up getting that new car this year . Maybe next year those Martini sipping people on the dole will finally take a hit.

Banjo String

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes most of the lecturers I work with had to give up getting that new car this year . Maybe next year those Martini sipping people on the dole will finally take a hit.

Ah eddy you didn't take the bait did ye?

steddyeddy

Banjo String wrote: »

Ah eddy you didn't take the bait did ye?

Ah no don't worry. Ignorance needs no further exposure

oppenheimer1

Going Forward wrote: »

Something to look forward to:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/john-bruton-ireland-faces-10-more-years-of-austerity-budgets-1.1812651

Looks like from his position (not seeking election) that he is talking straight.

"Mr Bruton said the Irish people themselves had passed a referendum on the EU Fiscal Compact treaty which commits Ireland to reducing the debt/GDP ratio from 120 per cent to 60 per cent.

That referendum was passed by an almost two to one margin in 2012."

Couple this with two more E2bn budgets of cuts/savings/tax increases and it's hard to be optimistic.

It's almost refreshing to not hear of turning corners and green shoots.

I think Mr Burton is being overly pessimistic. From the experiences of other countries it generally takes about 10 years to get over the kind of shock we went through. We are halfway through that, so I expect another 5 years of budget tightening - but that the worst is over.


At the end of that period there may be a time where there will essentially be no change in the budget position and a further few years until we see real movement on things like tax reductions or increases in benefits.

.jacksparrow.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I think Mr Burton is being overly pessimistic. From the experiences of other countries it generally takes about 10 years to get over the kind of shock we went through. We are halfway through that, so I expect another 5 years of budget tightening - but that the worst is over.


At the end of that period there may be a time where there will essentially be no change in the budget position and a further few years until we see real movement on things like tax reductions or increases in benefits.

Benefits, what does that word even mean?

oppenheimer1

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Benefits, what does that word even mean?

Programmes and payments by the Department of Social Protection.


You knew what I meant though and decided to be an arse. Nice. :rolleyes:

Davarus Walrus

While it may not be fashionable to say it, Bruton's assessment of the economy is a rather more grounded and pragmatic one than those espoused by people and parties who promise no cuts to services, and no further increases in taxes and rates. Apart from vague rhetoric about taxing 'the rich'.

Financial prudence isn't in vogue at the moment.

steddyeddy

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

While it may not be fashionable to say it, Bruton's assessment of the economy is a rather more grounded and pragmatic one than those espoused by people and parties who promise no cuts to services, and no further increases in taxes and rates. Apart from vague rhetoric about taxing 'the rich'.

Financial prudence isn't in vogue at the moment.

Depends on what you mean on prudence. Bruton gave an opinion not a scientific fact.

Davarus Walrus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Depends on what you mean on prudence. Bruton gave an opinion not a scientific fact.

Well borrowing the guts of 1000 million euro a month is reality. Promising the sun, moon and stars without having to make any difficult decisions - in a cheap attempt to hoover up votes - isn't really that grounded in pragmatism. Or reality. It's the same tired politics wrapped up in the green cloak of nationalism.

steddyeddy

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Well borrowing the guts of 1000 million euro a month is reality. Promising the sun, moon and stars without having to make any difficult decisions - in a cheap attempt to hoover up votes - isn't really that grounded in pragmatism. Or reality. It's the same tired politics wrapped up in the green cloak of nationalism.

It;s all opinion until you go into detail and reasons why this would not work or why promises are unrealistic.

Aidric

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Apart from vague rhetoric about taxing 'the rich'.

Wasn't that Sinn Fein's line? Just look how that's worked out for France.

steddyeddy

Taxing the rich is as vague as the "pro-austerity" the less well off need to take the hits. We need a middle ground. First of all we need to tax child benefit on incomes > a certain amount.

Tail Docker

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Well borrowing the guts of 1000 million euro a month is reality. Promising the sun, moon and stars without having to make any difficult decisions - in a cheap attempt to hoover up votes - isn't really that grounded in pragmatism. Or reality. It's the same tired politics wrapped up in the green cloak of nationalism.

It's also the "reality" presided over by your darling FG. Their piddly, arsey cuts won't reduce that either. Mainly as they seem determined to take every hard-choice going when it comes to the weakest, and none of the hard choices when it comes to the strongest.

dxhound2005

steddyeddy wrote: »

Depends on what you mean on prudence. Bruton gave an opinion not a scientific fact.

In a household it would mean eating food which is bought and paid for, not throwing one third of it away. Doesn't happen in my house, probably not in yours. But even in these austere times the average being wasted per household is somewhere between €700 and €1000 a year. Also when the real austerity strikes the country will have to cut back on the €6 billion it spends on alcohol every year. Again my household is responsible for very little of that, as is yours probably.

Many enterprising ideas were put forward in the Water thread about how to save money when the metering starts. But electricity costs more now than the water will and I see evidence of much unnecessary usage resulting in higher bills.

Davarus Walrus

steddyeddy wrote: »

It;s all opinion until you go into detail and reasons why this would not work or why promises are unrealistic.

The current Government didn't decide to become unpopular out of choice. They had to make some of the most radical decisions at an economic level in the history of the State. If there were viable and workable alternatives to what they had to do then I'm sure they'd be on it like a fly on shít.

So excuse me if I find people like Paul Murphy going on about no water charges, no cuts to services and a €13 an hour minimum wage, as being the type of political woo that should be questioned. It's the worst type of cynical populism masquerading as socialism.

ryan101

comongethappy wrote: »

He was on the Sean O'Rourke show this morning saying he can now only afford no more than €300 on body glitter per month.

Now that's what I call austerity

Tail Docker

dxhound2005 wrote: »

In a household it would mean eating food which is bought and paid for, not throwing one third of it away. Doesn't happen in my house, probably not in yours. But even in these austere times the average being wasted per household is somewhere between €700 and €1000 a year. Also when the real austerity strikes the country will have to cut back on the €6 billion it spends on alcohol every year. Again my household is responsible for very little of that, as is yours probably.

Many enterprising ideas were put forward in the Water thread about how to save money when the metering starts. But electricity costs more now than the water will and I see evidence of much unnecessary usage resulting in higher bills.

Household prudence does not equate to National Prudence. Which would you eliminate, the gold-plated pond running hot water or the packet of Doritos on a friday? Our lot go for the Doritos every time as being "the big answer".

Davarus Walrus

Tail Docker wrote: »

It's also the "reality" presided over by your darling FG. Their piddly, arsey cuts won't reduce that either. Mainly as they seem determined to take every hard-choice going when it comes to the weakest, and none of the hard choices when it comes to the strongest.

You see, this is the type of cheap and vague rhetoric that seems to be popular. The Weakest and the Strongest. A battle to the death.

Fire out a couple of the things you would have done differently. Back of a fag packet type of answers.

dxhound2005

Tail Docker wrote: »

Household prudence does not equate to National Prudence. Which would you eliminate, the gold-plated pond running hot water or the packet of Doritos on a friday? Our lot go for the Doritos every time as being "the big answer".

The biggest expenditure by far is on Social Welfare, €20 billion a year. Followed by Health and Education with the majority of the spending on both going on wages. Between them those three cost more than the country gets from all the taxes, so we are borrowing to pay for them. There you have the very obvious targets for reductions, but good luck in keeping the 2.3 million people who benefit from Social Welfare payments happy if you cut their money. Or if you dare suggest that people should pay for their own third level education or that half the country doesn't need to have a medical card.

Son Of A Vidic

Lars1916 wrote: »

I think, he lives somewhere on Griffith Avenue, so I heard

You're getting mixed up with Bertie's ex who lives there. She lives a few doors down from my sister. Bertie often played a wee bit of footie with my nephews. So I spent an entire summer training my nephews, in how to make it look like an accident. Unfortunately, Operation Broken Neck was aborted when Bertie broke up with his arm candy.