Beer on Trains

helimachoptor

Quick question folks, can you bring beer on trains?
Dublin - Westport specifically

Losty Dublin

helimachoptor wrote: »

Quick question folks, can you bring beer on trains?
Dublin - Westport specifically

Strictly speaking, no you can't.

In the real world, yes you can once you don't act like a gob****e on board.

In a few cases, some trains are designated no alcohol but this won't be an issue on the Westport line.

helimachoptor

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Strictly speaking, no you can't.

In the real world, yes you can once you don't act like a gob****e on board.

In a few cases, some trains are designated no alcohol but this won't be an issue on the Westport line.

Cheers, yeah we are definitely on the mature end of things so it'll be pretty casual and we are on the early train so there shouldnt be too many people on it

bikeman1

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Strictly speaking, no you can't.

In the real world, yes you can once you don't act like a gob****e on board.

In a few cases, some trains are designated no alcohol but this won't be an issue on the Westport line.

No that's not true, you are allowed to drink alcohol on board the majority of intercity services. There are certain exclusions namely:

Waterford - Dublin on Sundays
Galway - Dublin on Sundays on certain trains
Specials for matches / concerts

However the Byelaws state that the company can remove you from the Railway of you are intoxicated and are a risk to yourself and or other passengers.

OP last time I was on the train to Westport (about 2 months ago) I enjoyed 3 bottles of Irish Ales before enjoying a great night out in Westport. This has to be the biggest advantage to taking the train when heading away for the weekend.

And I'm not talking about the loud, rude people sculling as many of the cheapest tins they can get, which has caused certain restrictions.

Losty Dublin

If it is on sale on the train and you purchased it on board then yes you may drink on board. You can't consume your own alcohol on board strictly speaking, but it's down to licence issues as distinct to bye laws. Once you are civil/not being a twat then it won't be an issue and you will be let be.

The services you mention don't sell alcohol on board at all; consumption of same is enforced more strictly than on other services.

bikeman1 wrote: »

No that's not true, you are allowed to drink alcohol on board the majority of intercity services. There are certain exclusions namely:

Waterford - Dublin on Sundays
Galway - Dublin on Sundays on certain trains
Specials for matches / concerts

However the Byelaws state that the company can remove you from the Railway of you are intoxicated and are a risk to yourself and or other passengers.
.

Carawaystick

If you bring beer on a train in a bag, who'll know?
It's drinking beer that may be an issue.

Losty Dublin

Carawaystick wrote: »

If you bring beer on a train in a bag, who'll know?
It's drinking beer that may be an issue.

Nobody, once the bag doesn't say "Off Licence" on it

hardCopy

Losty Dublin wrote: »

If it is on sale on the train and you purchased it on board then yes you may drink on board. You can't consume your own alcohol on board strictly speaking, but it's down to licence issues as distinct to bye laws. Once you are civil/not being a twat then it won't be an issue and you will be let be.

The services you mention don't sell alcohol on board at all; consumption of same is enforced more strictly than on other services.

I find it sad that we can't simply have a "no acting the twat" rule on trains rather than punishing everyone for the misbehaviour of a minority.

discus

It's generally the same rules in the UK, although people don't tend to get rowdy for various reasons - off duty armed forces / police in most trains (33/50% discount on fares), british transport police, the met etc - so lads getting on with bags of cans are never stopped. Even when its a boisterous bunch of lads getting off the oil rigs, for a 7 hr trip to london they don't get too loud - if one needs to be taken off the coach they all have to go!!

schemingbohemia

hardCopy wrote: »

I find it sad that we can't simply have a "no acting the twat" rule on trains rather than punishing everyone for the misbehaviour of a minority.

We do (in the main).

n97 mini

Losty Dublin wrote: »

but it's down to licence issues as distinct to bye laws.

Can you quote the relevant law as licensing only applies to the selling of alcohol, not the consumption. e.g. many restaurants don't have liquor licenses (i.e. permitting the sale of) but allow BYO.

whisky_galore

hardCopy wrote: »

I find it sad that we can't simply have a "no acting the twat" rule on trains rather than punishing everyone for the misbehaviour of a minority.

Unfortunately, some services have a higher proportion of on-board twats.

_Kaiser_

Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional social drink myself, but I really don't see why this is still allowed at all. Surely people can go a few hours without needing alcohol.
While most people may behave, all you need is a stag/hen party or someone who can't handle his/her drink and the journey becomes a nightmare for everyone else.

We don't allow it on intercity bus services do we? Or planes? Why are trains the exception?

whisky_galore

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional social drink myself, but I really don't see why this is still allowed at all. Surely people can go a few hours without needing alcohol.
While most people may behave, all you need is a stag/hen party or someone who can't handle his/her drink and the journey becomes a nightmare for everyone else.

We don't allow it on intercity bus services do we? Or planes? Why are trains the exception?

*cough*

_Kaiser_

whisky_galore wrote: »

*cough*

That's what I get replying with multiple windows open My point still stands though - it's unnecessary given the potential disruption and discomfort to other paying passengers it can cause.

But then, given how obsessed with alcohol in this country (just look at the queues in supermarkets the day before Good Friday or coming up to Xmas), it's not surprising that it's still permitted.

whisky_galore

“Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits. Fanatics will never learn that, though it be written in letters of gold across the sky. It is the prohibition that makes anything precious”
― Mark Twain

loyatemu

there were people huffing lighter-fluid straight from the can on the train I was on earlier this week.

Not sure this is better or worse than the drunken idiots who get on with a slab of cans - they didn't cause any trouble, but did have some trouble getting off the train when the time came.

Going Forward

helimachoptor wrote: »

Cheers, yeah we are definitely on the mature end of things so it'll be pretty casual..

Ah howiya Rosser?:D

Del2005

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional social drink myself, but I really don't see why this is still allowed at all. Surely people can go a few hours without needing alcohol.
While most people may behave, all you need is a stag/hen party or someone who can't handle his/her drink and the journey becomes a nightmare for everyone else.

We don't allow it on intercity bus services do we? Or planes? Why are trains the exception?

There are already powerful laws dealing with antisocial behaviour and being drunk in public
If we enforced these laws there'd be no need to penalise people who can control themselves.

So instead of a stupid knee jerk reaction to banning all booze the country needs to grow a pair and enforce our current laws so that grown ups can consum what they like once it doesn't affect others.

Going Forward

Del2005 wrote: »

There are already powerful laws dealing with antisocial behaviour and being drunk in public
If we enforced these laws there'd be no need to penalise people who can control themselves.

So instead of a stupid knee jerk reaction to banning all booze the country needs to grow a pair and enforce our current laws so that grown ups can consum what they like once it doesn't affect others.

There's always something a bit odd about people drinking anyplace other than licensed premises.

I dont think it looks right, someone drinking on a train or plane, I tend to suspect they're alchos, (admittedly completely unfounded) it's not particularly good example (the same as smoking), and some people could feel uncomfortable sitting beside someone drinking on a train.

_Kaiser_

Del2005 wrote: »

There are already powerful laws dealing with antisocial behaviour and being drunk in public
If we enforced these laws there'd be no need to penalise people who can control themselves.

So instead of a stupid knee jerk reaction to banning all booze the country needs to grow a pair and enforce our current laws so that grown ups can consum what they like once it doesn't affect others.

Where did I suggest we ban all booze? I have no problem with someone having a drink in a pub, or at home with friends or whatever. I do it myself

But I don't see this need to be allowed do it on public transport - it only takes one clown to destroy the journey for the entire carriage. It's not that big a country.. surely they can hold off till they get to where they're going just as say people who smoke have to.

Del2005

Going Forward wrote: »

There's always something a bit odd about people drinking anyplace other than licensed premises.

I dont think it looks right, someone drinking on a train or plane, I tend to suspect they're alchos, (admittedly completely unfounded) it's not particularly good example (the same as smoking), and some people could feel uncomfortable sitting beside someone drinking on a train.

So the reason you want drinking banned is because you think that they are alcoholics, yet you still want to keep the publicans in business. Drinking in pubs has done way more harm in this country than drinking on public transport.

Del2005

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

But I don't see this need to be allowed do it on public transport - it only takes one clown to destroy the journey for the entire carriage. It's not that big a country.. surely they can hold off till they get to where they're going just as say people who smoke have to.

There are already laws to deal with the clown causing hassle, they just aren't used.

But having a drink isn't harming any other passengers unlike smoking. Why do people eat on public transport? The country is small they can eat wherever they arrive.

Some people are nervous travelling so need to take sedatives for relaxing, just like someone who had a stressful day in work and needs to get to a different part of the country.

If people are causing trouble on public transport it's up to the operator to remove them and not bring in blanket bans, which the trouble makers will ignore anyway so the only people affected are the ones who wouldn't have caused trouble in the first place.

Going Forward

Del2005 wrote: »

So the reason you want drinking banned is because you think that they are alcoholics, yet you still want to keep the publicans in business. Drinking in pubs has done way more harm in this country than drinking on public transport.

There's a time and a place for everything.
I'd prefer drinkers to stay in licensed premises- that's why they're called licensed premises.

A free for all drinking on public transport? No thanks.

I won't dispute the harm that the misuse of alcohol has caused.

cython

Going Forward wrote: »

There's a time and a place for everything.
I'd prefer drinkers to stay in licensed premises- that's why they're called licensed premises.

A free for all drinking on public transport? No thanks.

I won't dispute the harm that the misuse of alcohol has caused.

So do you object to the sale of alcohol on certain services? http://www.irishrail.ie/media/table_talker_105x297_v7.pdf?v=ga3uyce and http://www.irishrail.ie/media/rg_first_class_menu_v9.pdf?v=ga3doqy would suggest that Irish Rail themselves sell beer and wine on certain services (which may bring it under the umbrella of a licensed premises, but i think it's really using an exemption), so if that is ok then you really only have a problem with BYO.

Like most of the people here I have no issues with people having a quiet drink or two, but enforcement is required and at least with alcohol being served someone can be cut off, whereas some people bring enough for 2 round trips on one journey and proceed to get bladdered by drinking it all.

Going Forward

cython wrote: »

So do you object to the sale of alcohol on certain services?

In that it facilitates someone to drink on a train?
Em, yes, for the reasons I gave earlier.

cython wrote: »

so if that is ok then you really only have a problem with BYO.

I hadn't actually differentiated, but given the choice, the BYO passenger looks even odder than the one using the "legitimate" refreshments counter.

The tend to look like cheapskates, and more alcho-ey and are best generally avoided like the plague.

Del2005

Going Forward wrote: »

There's a time and a place for everything.
I'd prefer drinkers to stay in licensed premises- that's why they're called licensed premises.

A free for all drinking on public transport? No thanks.

I won't dispute the harm that the misuse of alcohol has caused.

There's more than one type of licenced premises. One for the consumption of alcohol on the premises and the other for consumption off premises. You seem to a have a connection to the first by your insistence on supporting them by not allowing alcohol be consumed in other places, like people's home.

Loads of other countries allow drinking in public and don't have the issues we have but that's because they enforce the laws on the people who are being anti social not making new ones that will be ignored.

The thing is that alcohol is properly better for someone to drink than the fructose laced soft

Going Forward

Del2005 wrote: »

There's more than one type of licenced premises. One for the consumption of alcohol on the premises and the other for consumption off premises. You seem to a have a connection to the first by your insistence on supporting them by not allowing alcohol be consumed in other places, like people's home.

I've can assure you I've no connection to the licensed trade.
I believe drinking in public looks loutish and it is not something I would encourage.

Del2005 wrote: »

The thing is that alcohol is properly better for someone to drink than the fructose laced soft

I see.

No Pants

Going Forward wrote: »

I hadn't actually differentiated, but given the choice, the BYO passenger looks even odder than the one using the "legitimate" refreshments counter.

The tend to look like cheapskates, and more alcho-ey and are best generally avoided like the plague.

I'd turn that around. The person who planned their journey and brought a bottle of wine that cost €6.99 in the local supermarket vs. the person who didn't plan and now has to spend €6 on a glass of wine on the train. Personally I'd have more respect for the former, based on the evidence presented.

As others have said, enforcement of current laws are needed, not new laws. Once that's done, your snobbery won't be necessary.

Dan_Solo

Going Forward wrote: »

I've can assure you I've no connection to the licensed trade.
I believe drinking in public looks loutish and it is not something I would encourage.

In public? You mean, for example, in a public house?

No Pants

Going Forward wrote: »

I believe drinking in public looks loutish and it is not something I would encourage.

The ruffians!

monument

Going Forward wrote: »

I believe drinking in public looks loutish and it is not something I would encourage.

Only because we've went down the road of demonising drink rather than dealing with poor behavour and problem drinkers.

Much of the main official response to drinking (limiting hours of sale and drinking in public etc) amounts to a very immature outlook and it just has not worked.

The countries with a more mature respovce to drink allow drinking in public and on intercity trains.

whisky_galore

monument wrote: »

The countries with a more mature respovce to drink allow drinking in public and on intercity trains.

Do these countries have drunk and disorderly laws that are actually enforced on the occasion when someone chooses to act the maggot?
Over here it's a case of 'yerra god love him, shure he'll get a record and he only a student. Mind yourself now, safe home.'

Del2005

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do these countries have drunk and disorderly laws that are actually enforced on the occasion when someone chooses to act the maggot?
Over here it's a case of 'yerra god love him, shure he'll get a record and he only a student. Mind yourself now, safe home.'

Yes, which is why they don't have our problems with drinking in public. Sit quietly having a few beers your grand, start acting the maggot and you'll how quickly and efficiently professional police forces work.

No Pants

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do these countries have drunk and disorderly laws that are actually enforced on the occasion when someone chooses to act the maggot?

Do they what? I remember one time in Rotterdam years ago. Couple of blokes started kicking off. Cops arrived in full riot gear (had sidearms too), threw them into the back of a van and drove off. There wasn't much resistance and the locals didn't bat an eyelid.

Five Lamps

What is it about Irish people in that they have to drink on trains? Furthermore, the problem is that there is no middle ground. Once the beer is produced the folks at the table behind you ruin everybody elses journey.

whisky_galore

Five Lamps wrote: »

What is it about Irish people in that they have to drink on trains? Furthermore, the problem is that there is no middle ground. Once the beer is produced the folks at the table behind you ruin everybody elses journey.

Strange as it may seem it IS possible to drink on a train without p*ssing your fellow travellers off. How do you do that I hear you ask? Oh yes...by not being an idiot. Don't be that guy (or girl)

Think part of the problem is how people complain (or rather how Irish people DON'T complain, staying quiet and then whinging about it after the fact), the presence or otherwise of on-board staff to deal with complaints and the powers available to staff to reprimand/eject problem passengers.

Five Lamps

whisky_galore wrote: »

Strange as it may seem it IS possible to drink on a train without p*ssing your fellow travellers off. How do you do that I hear you ask? Oh yes...by not being an idiot. Don't be that guy (or girl)

Think part of the problem is how people complain (or rather how Irish people DON'T complain, staying quiet and then whinging about it after the fact), the presence or otherwise of on-board staff to deal with complaints and the powers available to staff to reprimand/eject problem passengers.

Problem is that nobody including the staff are going to intervene with rowdy bunch who've been drinking for a couple of hours. The other problem the "quiet" responsible drinkers often aren't.

Going Forward

monument wrote: »

Only because we've went down the road of demonising drink rather than dealing with poor behavour and problem drinkers.

Much of the main official response to drinking (limiting hours of sale and drinking in public etc) amounts to a very immature outlook and it just has not worked.

The countries with a more mature respovce to drink allow drinking in public and on intercity trains.

It's a contentious and complex subject worldwide, not a uniquely Irish issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_in_public

Given the Irish softness for the drop, and from experience, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.

Going Forward

whisky_galore wrote: »

Strange as it may seem it IS possible to drink on a train without p*ssing your fellow travellers off. How do you do that I hear you ask? Oh yes...by not being an idiot. Don't be that guy (or girl)

The furtive or careful drinker. I'm sorry, but I'm still going to feel a mixture of pity, that the drinker has a major problem and can't survive for a couple of hours without taking a drop, and apprehension, that they might try to start something, even a conversation.

whisky_galore wrote: »

Think part of the problem is how people complain (or rather how Irish people DON'T complain, staying quiet and then whinging about it after the fact), the presence or otherwise of on-board staff to deal with complaints and the powers available to staff to reprimand/eject problem passengers.

So it's the onlookers fault for not having an effective method of complaining and being listened to?

This is trying to place some sort of responsibility on the party who's travel experience has been marred by those misbehaving.