Opinion on traffic lights

Pat Custard

I was driving and a friend of mine told me that I was wring and I was insisting that I was right.

He insists that when the green forward arrow is highlighted, I can creep forward and wait until the road is clear to turn right as in the diagram (apologies for the crap drawing in paint).

This is how I do it:

I sit in the right of the lane and I wait for solid green or for the green right arrow. If the arrow is right green is illuminated, then I can proceed, if it is solid green, I will move onto the yellow box and wait for a clearing to turn right and make my manoeuvre.

My friend thinks:

He says I am right although he thinks that I can move onto the yellow box with a green forward arrow, but I insist that it is only for traffic in the leftmost lane for continuing straight ahead after the junction.

I tried looking through various websites and browsing, but cannot find who is right.

Advice anyone?

lintdrummer

Pat Custard wrote: »

Advice anyone?

I would side with you on this one op. I'd say every junction is different of course but when the filter light isn't illuminated there's a possibility that the road to the right has pedestrian lights with a green man.

Decoda

Sorry.......misread the op and gave info not relevant...apologies....

djimi

If the filter lane for turning right does not have a red light then you can turn on any green. I dont think I have ever come across a green forward arrow that wasnt accompanied by a red/green for turning right, but if there is no red light then there is no reason to think that you cannot turn.

djimi

lintdrummer wrote: »

I would side with you on this one op. I'd say every junction is different of course but when the filter light isn't illuminated there's a possibility that the road to the right has pedestrian lights with a green man.

If there were pedestrian lights at the right hand road then there would be a red light on the filter lane. There is no way that pedestrians would ever have a green man allowing them to cross when the traffic was not stopped by a red light.

FunLover18

djimi wrote: »

If the filter lane for turning right does not have a red light then you can turn on any green. I dont think I have ever come across a green forward arrow that wasnt accompanied by a red/green for turning right, but if there is no red light then there is no reason to think that you cannot turn.

Yep, your friend is right unless like djimi says the filter has a red. In most cases there's a sensor so that you have to move forward to trigger the filter.

corktina

if you only have a green straight ahead arrow, you can only go straight ahead.

ironclaw

corktina wrote: »

if you only have a green straight ahead arrow, you can only go straight ahead.

This. Its green in the shown direction. How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me Why you would need a red is beyond me. Thats assuming right of way which is a serious case of driver error in my eyes.

For instance, there is a left turn onto Fosters Ave from the N11 into town. You can have a green for going into town and a red for turning left. The reason being the pedestrians have a green light. Can be very weird as you can in effect be blocking the bus lane while you wait.

Theres a similar situation in Phibsborough I think. Two lanes for straight on, but the leftmost has a filter that only allows a left turn normally out of sync with the forward. So you can be blocking traffic again if you are not going straight on (If you are unfortunate to be caught in the wrong lane as its possible for people unfamiliar with it)

FunLover18

It is very much dependent on the junction. For instance this junction outside Sallins has no red on the filter. There is a box just past the line which activates the filter therefor if you don't move forward the green right arrow doesn't come on.

I can think of several junctions like this in Naas alone. Of course there are junctions where there is no sensor, such as on the N11 where I would wait behind the line.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

if you only have a green straight ahead arrow, you can only go straight ahead.

ironclaw wrote: »

This. Its green in the shown direction. How anyone could argue otherwise is beyond me Why you would need a red is beyond me. Thats assuming right of way which is a serious case of driver error in my eyes.

If there is nothing to tell you that you cannot turn right then why would you not turn right if it is clear to do so where the light on the road is green? Its not assuming right of way; a green right arrow would tell you that you have right of way. A green straight arrow with no red light on the right hand filter lane suggests to me that it is okay to turn right provided it is clear to do so.

Like I said, I have never come across a junction where there is a green light with a forward arrow and no red light on the right hand filter lane. Where the filter lane only has amber/green lights, the light for going straight will be a solid green. Im sure someone can show me an example that goes against this (it is Ireland after all; we must assume that any situation, no matter how ridiculous, occurs somewhere on this island!), but it is far from the norm.

djimi

FunLover18 wrote: »

It is very much dependent on the junction. For instance this junction outside Sallins has no red on the filter. There is a box just past the line which activates the filter therefor if you don't move forward the green right arrow doesn't come on.

I can think of several junctions like this in Naas alone. Of course there are junctions where there is no sensor, such as on the N11 where I would wait behind the line.

Thats not what the OP is describing though. On that junction the main green light is solid, meaning that you can turn right into the Waterways if it is clear to do so, and the green light for the right hand lane is just an indication that the opposing traffic have a red so it is clear to turn.

The OP is describing a junction like the one that you have linked, only with an arrow pointing straight ahead in the main green light rather than a solid green. Like I said above, Im not sure I have ever come across such a set of traffic lights.

FunLover18

djimi wrote: »

Thats not what the OP is describing though. On that junction the main green light is solid, meaning that you can turn right into the Waterways if it is clear to do so, and the green light for the right hand lane is just an indication that the opposing traffic have a red so it is clear to turn.

The OP is describing a junction like the one that you have linked, only with an arrow pointing straight ahead in the main green light rather than a solid green. Like I said above, Im not sure I have ever come across such a set of traffic lights.

Hmmmm

But surely there's a difference between a green straight arrow and a solid green otherwise why have two different sets?

I think I may be seeing the OP's point now

FunLover18

According to driving school Ireland

If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right, drive into the junction when you see a green light, taking care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn before the filter light appears.

No distinction on whether the green light has to be solid or an arrow.

More Music

If you are turning right and are the 1st car in the queue to do so, you are entitled to enter the yellow box and position your car for turning right. Assuming the lights for you are green of course. The filter arrow doesn't matter, you can do it with or without a filter arrow.

Only if you're the first car in the queue.

challengemaster

FunLover18 wrote: »

According to driving school Ireland



No distinction on whether the green light has to be solid or an arrow.

Apart from common sense.

FunLover18

challengemaster wrote: »

Apart from common sense.

There are definitely junctions where I wouldn't do it. If you're in gear waiting to go, you're not going to shave much time of your journey either way

Pat Custard

I must also add that the traffic coming in the opposite lane is single lane and that after the junction, my lane narrows into a single lane. Thanks for your input everybody.

rubberdungeon

A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the
direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red light is also showing.

If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right,
drive into the junction when you see a green light, taking care not to block any
oncoming traffic. Then, when it is safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for
the filter arrow for turning right when you are in the junction and if it would be
dangerous to finish your turn before the filter light appears.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-of-the-road-eng.pdf (Page 104)

corktina

That means move into the box on a full green not on a green straight on arrow. The bit about not waiting for the arrow applies with a full green only.

Jeez I always knew Irish drivers were half trained.....didn't realise it was actually somewhat less than that!

The Rules of the Road is not law, just an interpretation, which some users on here are further interpreting in the way they choose.
A green straight on arrow is a filter light too...you may only proceed in the direction of the filter arrow if that is all that is lit....left,straight or right whichever.

K.Flyer

The Green Arrow at traffic lights Dictates which direction traffic can move in, all other traffic must wait. Otherwise what is the point in having traffic lights with directional arrows, common sense I would have thought.

djimi

Two questions:

A) Has anyone ever actually seen a set of traffic lights where there was a green light with a straight arrow that wasnt accompanied by a red light in the right hand filter lane?

and

If such a set of lights does exist, what law exactly are you breaking by turning right when there is a green straight arrow and no red light in the right hand filter lane? Youre not breaking a red light, there is nothing that tells you that you cannot proceed if it is safe and clear to do so, so what law exactly says that you cannot turn right in this scenario?

DavyD_83

djimi wrote: »

If there is nothing to tell you that you cannot turn right then why would you not turn right if it is clear to do so where the light on the road is green? Its not assuming right of way; a green right arrow would tell you that you have right of way. A green straight arrow with no red light on the right hand filter lane suggests to me that it is okay to turn right provided it is clear to do so.

Like I said, I have never come across a junction where there is a green light with a forward arrow and no red light on the right hand filter lane. Where the filter lane only has amber/green lights, the light for going straight will be a solid green. Im sure someone can show me an example that goes against this (it is Ireland after all; we must assume that any situation, no matter how ridiculous, occurs somewhere on this island!), but it is far from the norm.

As far as I am aware, if this is the intention of the lights, then it should be a solid green, rather than a green arrow.
My understanding is that green arrow is green in ONLY that direction; solid green is green in all directions.
Green always meaning: proceed if safe to do so; not necessarily giving you right of way, particularly if turning right.

alias no.9

K.Flyer wrote: »

The Green Arrow at traffic lights Dictates which direction traffic can move in, all other traffic must wait. Otherwise what is the point in having traffic lights with directional arrows, common sense I would have thought.

I agree with you, what is the point? However it wouldn't be the only pointless traffic control measure deployed on our fair isle.
A green arrow for straight ahead only governs traffic heading straight ahead, on it's own it has no bearing on traffic turning left or right. In the absence of an accompanying solid red light / filter arrow red light or indeed a no right turn / no left turn sign, how do you interpret the junction?
Now I can't recall ever seeing a setup without an additional accompanying signal/sign but this being Ireland, they could well exist, so you've got to consider it as being analogous to making a turn at a junction with no signal control or at least that's what I would do if I had to make an instantaneous decision if I landed in that situation.

ThisRegard

djimi wrote: »

Two questions:

A) Has anyone ever actually seen a set of traffic lights where there was a green light with a straight arrow that wasnt accompanied by a red light in the right hand filter lane?

Yes, And it doesn't have to be for the right filter. You can have a green arrow for going straight, but pedestrians around to your left have the green man. You won't have a red light telling you you can't go left, but the filter light won't be on.

djimi

K.Flyer wrote: »

The Green Arrow at traffic lights Dictates which direction traffic can move in, all other traffic must wait. Otherwise what is the point in having traffic lights with directional arrows, common sense I would have thought.

Of course, but in the absense of a red light it means it must wait until it is clear and safe to cross, not wait for the green filter light.

djimi

ThisRegard wrote: »

Yes, And it doesn't have to be for the right filter. You can have a green arrow for going straight, but pedestrians around to your left have the green man. You won't have a red light telling you you can't go left, but the filter light won't be on.

Where? Can you link it on Google maps? Because I dont believe I have ever seen a situation where pedestrian lights are green and the corresponding road lights are not specifically red.

ironclaw

djimi wrote: »

A) Has anyone ever actually seen a set of traffic lights where there was a green light with a straight arrow that wasnt accompanied by a red light in the right hand filter lane?

Two junctions I described with a left turn have no red. And if you did turn left without the arrow you'd risk mowing down a few pedestrians.

I suppose it depends on your interpretation. I would interpret a green arrow in a given direction as 'clear to proceed in that direction' with the assumption that all other directions are unsafe to proceed in. That to be is pure common sense (To me anyway) as whats the point of an arrow if you are clear in all directions.

The flip side, is that if a red doesn't exist, then you are clear to proceed. But I'd rather err on the side of caution and proceed in a direction that is clearly denoted as being clear to proceed in irregardless of a red being present or not. I'd rather say to a judge I had a green filter than I proceeded in the wrong direction of a clearly directional green arrow.

I can see you point though, I just don't see the logic behind the thinking if I'm honest. It seems very assumptive as 'well if someone doesn't say specifically I can't do something then I'll do it if I feel like it'

djimi

ironclaw wrote: »

Two junctions I described with a left turn have no red. And if you did turn left without the arrow you'd risk mowing down a few pedestrians.

One of those junctions you said has a red light for turning left. I dont know the other one; it wouldnt surprise me if there is no red to accompany a greed pedestrian crossing though, given the standard of road planning in this country...

ironclaw wrote: »

I suppose it depends on your interpretation. I would interpret a green arrow in a given direction as 'clear to proceed in that direction' with the assumption that all other directions are unsafe to proceed in. That to be is pure common sense (To me anyway) as whats the point of an arrow if you are clear in all directions.

The flip side, is that if a red doesn't exist, then you are clear to proceed. But I'd rather err on the side of caution and proceed in a direction that is clearly denoted as being clear to proceed in irregardless of a red being present or not. I'd rather say to a judge I had a green filter than I proceeded in the wrong direction of a clearly directional green arrow.

I can see you point though, I just don't see the logic behind the thinking if I'm honest. It seems very assumptive as 'well if someone doesn't say specifically I can't do something then I'll do it if I feel like it'

I dont see it as being assumptive at all. Red means stop, green means go. If there is no red, then there is no reason to think that you cannot go if it is clear and safe to do so.

If there are pedestrian lights on a road then there should be a red light on the filter lane.

There is nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution if you are unsure about a junction, but as far as Im concerned it makes little sense to do this most of the time unless you are really unsure as to what to do.

corktina

djimi wrote: »

Of course, but in the absense of a red light it means it must wait until it is clear and safe to cross, not wait for the green filter light.

Nope, you can only go in the direction of the arrow..at least that is the spirit of the Law but actually you may be correct, if there isn't a Red light there is no reason to stop I suppose. I can't see what you could get prosecuted for.

K.Flyer

corktina wrote: »

Nope, you can only go in the direction of the arrow..at least that is the spirit of the Law but actually you may be correct, if there isn't a Red light there is no reason to stopI suppose. I can't see what you could get prosecuted for.

If I remember correctly it would be for "failing to obey a traffic signal" or something along those lines (I don't have time to look it up at the moment).
Same as if a Garda is on point duty and he only indicates to the centre lane to proceed forward, thats not an indication for others to move. (open to correction)

djimi

K.Flyer wrote: »

If I remember correctly it would be for "failing to obey a traffic signal" or something along those lines (I don't have time to look it up at the moment).
Same as if a Garda is on point duty and he only indicates to the centre lane to proceed forward, thats not an indication for others to move. (open to correction)

What traffic signal? There is no traffic signal in the filter lane; thats the point. You can assume that no light means red, and if there is something in law to say that then Im happy to be proven right and Ill shut up, but in the absense of a red light how can you say to someone that they are not permitted to turn?

Its a bit different with a Garda; if they are doing their job properly then they should be signalling which cars are to stop as well as which ones can go.