Stunned

Scoobydoo 2

Am i going mad or what
I was stunned when my child came home today and said the whole class was given a form to fill in asking what other girls in the class they had seen using a mobile phone and to name them and sign the document
Surely this is not allowed
I know the dept of education don't give a rats and say its up to the school to determine their own rules and regulations
But I find this disturbing
Is it just me or do others think this is way way over the top
dont want to identify my child but the school is in Wicklow town

afkasurfjunkie

No school would have pupils fill out a form like that just for the sake of it. Sounds to me like a case of cyber bullying is being investigated and been taken very seriously.

Scoobydoo 2

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

No school would have pupils fill out a form like that just for the sake of it. Sounds to me like a case of cyber bullying is being investigated and been taken very seriously.

i think it more like the school doing the bullying
certainly dont want my child being dragged into anything covertly
if that was even the case but i would think the people to approach would.be facebook or whoever if thats what was happening but i dont really believe that
just seems to be a half baked witch hunt
i think it absured to make children swear to tell the truth then get them to sign it and ask them to tell on their classmates
what next

ShamoBuc

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

i think it more like the school doing the bullying
certainly dont want my child being dragged into anything covertly
if that was even the case but i would think the people to approach would.be facebook or whoever if thats what was happening but i dont really believe that
just seems to be a half baked witch hunt
i think it absured to make children swear to tell the truth then get them to sign it and ask them to tell on their classmates
what next

If the have school have done this, I would be pretty confident there is a good reason why. Pictures may have been taken, or texts may have been sent ie nothing to do with Facebook etc.
Ask the teacher or the principal. Also, if your daughter did nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

poolsandles

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

i think it more like the school doing the bullying
certainly dont want my child being dragged into anything covertly
if that was even the case but i would think the people to approach would.be facebook or whoever if thats what was happening but i dont really believe that
just seems to be a half baked witch hunt

I think you are over reacting. As other posters have said it does sound like a cyber bulling case. Make an appointment through the school and discuss your concerns with the teacher. No point jumping to conclusions when you don't have the full story or the reasoning behind what your child was asked to do. Good luck.

rotun

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

what next

Wouldn't worry about that just yet. Get this situation out of the way first..

What did the school say when you discussed it with them?

Mr_Red

There would be a very good reason why the school has requested this.

You just need to ask them what it is

PcAngel

This is part of the anti bullying initiative. A huge emphasis is now being placed on getting people to tell the truth. If your daughter as nothing to do with it - she should have no fears.
The days of ignoring bullying is gone.
If schools ignore it they are the worst in the world and face the possibility of being sued.

SamforMayo

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

Am i going mad or what
I was stunned when my child came home today and said the whole class was given a form to fill in asking what other girls in the class they had seen using a mobile phone and to name them and sign the document
Surely this is not allowed
I know the dept of education don't give a rats and say its up to the school to determine their own rules and regulations
But I find this disturbing
Is it just me or do others think this is way way over the top
dont want to identify my child but the school is in Wicklow town

Since Easter a new anti bullying policy is been introduced in schools, a major part of this is that the children in the middle ie between the victim and the child involved in the bullying behaviour have a lot of power and need to realise that it is wrong to stand by and allow this to continue. This method of surveying the class to find out who knew what is now recommended. There were information evenings for parents about this all over the country in education centres. In my opinion the parents council should also be highlighting this and informing parents. Your school actually sounds like it is doing just the right thing, you may some day appreciate this if it is your child who is been treated badly.

Scoobydoo 2

Thanks to everyone for their input It appears to be just me who thinks this is wrong
I think there are much easier and more upfront ways of combating cyber bullying the operators of mobile networks have the IMEI number of every device allowed on their network and if requested by the authorities can easily block said devices
I will not approach the school for fear of reprisals against my child
but I will be having a little chat advising my child not to identify anyone for any reason for fear of becoming a victim of same
there was no information given by this school regarding any new anti bullying policy and certainly I would have remembered had they said that children would be sworn in and asked to sign a document identifying other children that they had seen with a phone in their school there can be many valid reasons that a child might need to have a phone in their bag
Im not saying it should be on during school hours but many kids might go to a relative or something after school and nothing wrong with being able to contact them afterwards
I would disagree absolutely with what i would think is an insidious plan to use my child to garner information on other children that ( Homeland security would be proud of ) when cyber bullying should be quite easy to deal with by telecoms operators

you bring your device to the guards with the content on it they go to the operator and bang the bullys device is bricked
end of story

Thanks to everyone for their input
it appears to be just me that thinks this is wrong so I will just try not to draw attention to my child by complaining
Bye

endacl

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their input It appears to be just me who thinks this is wrong
I think there are much easier and more upfront ways of combating cyber bullying the operators of mobile networks have the IMEI number of every device allowed on their network and if requested by the authorities can easily block said devices
I will not approach the school for fear of reprisals against my child
but I will be having a little chat advising my child not to identify anyone for any reason for fear of becoming a victim of same
there was no information given by this school regarding any new anti bullying policy and certainly I would have remembered had they said that children would be sworn in and asked to sign a document identifying other children that they had seen with a phone in their school there can be many valid reasons that a child might need to have a phone in their bag
Im not saying it should be on during school hours but many kids might go to a relative or something after school and nothing wrong with being able to contact them afterwards
I would disagree absolutely with what i would think is an insidious plan to use my child to garner information on other children that ( Homeland security would be proud of ) when cyber bullying should be quite easy to deal with by telecoms operators

you bring your device to the guards with the content on it they go to the operator and bang the bullys device is bricked
end of story

Thanks to everyone for their input
it appears to be just me that thinks this is wrong so I will just try not to draw attention to my child by complaining
Bye

You may be undermining a very useful process for your daughter here. As others have posted, schools are being more proactive about changing the culture around bullying and empowering the bystander. Do you really want to teach her that if it's not happening to her, it's not her problem? Depending on her age, she may find this quite confusing. Children have an innate (and usually accurate) sense of right and wrong. And they like to have a sense of agency around this fact.

It night be worth your while having a bit of a think about how you respond to this, if, as you say, it appears to be just you who thinks it's wrong.

Mr_Red

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

I will be having a little chat advising my child not to identify anyone for any reason for fear of becoming a victim of same

So If your child was getting bullied..... You would like everyone else to stand aside and let it happen?

If your child got beaten up you would like the witnesses to keep their mouths shut?

Your answer is Yes to both of them as its not your child.

And Im guessing No if it were your child.

endacl

Mr_Red wrote: »

So If your child was getting bullied..... You would like everyone else to stand aside and let it happen?

If your child got beaten up you would like the witnesses to keep their mouths shut?

Your answer is Yes to both of them as its not your child.

And Im guessing No if it were your child.

And what if your child is the perpetrator? The hard question to think about.

Mr_Red

endacl wrote: »

And what if your child is the perpetrator? The hard question to think about.

Indeed

I dont understand why the op sees this as negative.

byhookorbycrook

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their input It appears to be just me who thinks this is wrong
I think there are much easier and more upfront ways of combating cyber bullying the operators of mobile networks have the IMEI number of every device allowed on their network and if requested by the authorities can easily block said devices
I will not approach the school for fear of reprisals against my child
but I will be having a little chat advising my child not to identify anyone for any reason for fear of becoming a victim of same
there was no information given by this school regarding any new anti bullying policy and certainly I would have remembered had they said that children would be sworn in and asked to sign a document identifying other children that they had seen with a phone in their school there can be many valid reasons that a child might need to have a phone in their bag
Im not saying it should be on during school hours but many kids might go to a relative or something after school and nothing wrong with being able to contact them afterwards
I would disagree absolutely with what i would think is an insidious plan to use my child to garner information on other children that ( Homeland security would be proud of ) when cyber bullying should be quite easy to deal with by telecoms operators

you bring your device to the guards with the content on it they go to the operator and bang the bullys device is bricked
end of story

Thanks to everyone for their input
it appears to be just me that thinks this is wrong so I will just try not to draw attention to my child by complaining
Bye

Ok, extremely emotive and to be honest , over the top language. Sworn in ?Ah come on! Reprisals? By who, this is the reason the children are being asked to write down name/s rather than to point out the child/children in class.
You should have a look at the book called "The Bully, The Bullied and The Bystander."
You seem to think that it doesn't matter if a child is bullied as long as your child isn't ,what an awful lesson to pass to your child.

SamforMayo

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ok, extremely emotive and to be honest , over the top language. Sworn in ?Ah come on! Reprisals? By who, this is the reason the children are being asked to write down name/s rather than to point out the child/children in class.
You should have a look at the book called "The Bully, The Bullied and The Bystander."
You seem to think that it doesn't matter if a child is bullied as long as your child isn't ,what an awful lesson to pass to your child.

+ 1 to all the above.

Scoobydoo 2

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ok, extremely emotive and to be honest , over the top language. Sworn in ?Ah come on! Reprisals? By who, this is the reason the children are being asked to write down name/s rather than to point out the child/children in class.
You should have a look at the book called "The Bully, The Bullied and The Bystander."
You seem to think that it doesn't matter if a child is bullied as long as your child isn't ,what an awful lesson to pass to your child.

I would like to thank everyone for their opinion
If trying to to do the best for your child is over the top or emotive then I guess that's parenthood
I wanted other opinions and i do thank you for taking the time to reply
As a parent i can only do what is best for my child and will ask that she not point a finger at anyone
I will leave it at that
Thanks

Dr Turk Turkelton

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

I would like to thank everyone for their opinion
If trying to to do the best for your child is over the top or emotive then I guess that's parenthood
I wanted other opinions and i do thank you for taking the time to reply
As a parent i can only do what is best for my child and will ask that she not point a finger at anyone
I will leave it at that
Thanks

Teaching your child to be a coward is what is best for her?
Good luck to that child, she will need it when this is the way she is going to be brought up.

Jakey Rolling

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

I wanted other opinions and i do thank you for taking the time to reply
As a parent i can only do what is best for my child and will ask that she not point a finger at anyone

And this is not in her best interests in the long run.
What happens when the bullying starts against your daughter, and no-one else will speak up beacaue their parents have advised them not to?

Please re-read the several replies above which make this same point!

We have a chance now to change the bullying culture for good, please embrace it.

PcAngel

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

I would like to thank everyone for their opinion
If trying to to do the best for your child is over the top or emotive then I guess that's parenthood
I wanted other opinions and i do thank you for taking the time to reply
As a parent i can only do what is best for my child and will ask that she not point a finger at anyone
I will leave it at that
Thanks

This post shows why bullying will persist / that burying your head in the sand is ok.
You as the parent, is the primary educator and you are doing your daughter no favours - teaching her the wrong morals/values.

ShamoBuc

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

I would like to thank everyone for their opinion
If trying to to do the best for your child is over the top or emotive then I guess that's parenthood
I wanted other opinions and i do thank you for taking the time to reply
As a parent i can only do what is best for my child and will ask that she not point a finger at anyone
I will leave it at that
Thanks

You can only do what you think is right, but I think you are wrong, very wrong.

Big Bag of Chips

Have you gone to the school? Have you spoken to anyone to clarify the exact reason for this form? Who will see it? Who will it be available to?

I'm guessing it will not be passed around the class for the alleged bully to read. Kids often find it easier to write things down than say them out loud. So this sounds like an opportunity for kids who might not otherwise feel comfortable coming forward.

I'm sure getting them to sign their name on the bottom of it is to stop the kids messing and writing down any names. If your name is on the bottom of it then it will allow the teacher to approach the child at a later date to discuss it further if they want to.

I think you will be doing your child a disservice if you don't at least contact the school and get their side of things. And you seem to think blocking phones is a quick and easy process...

I don't think it's quite as straightforward as you are trying to make out. Nobody wants their child to be bullied. But actually encouraging your child to be a silent bystander is almost as bad being a bully.

Please, before you start telling your daughter she doesn't have to do what the school asks, at least go and speak to someone in the school. There will be no repercussions for your daughter if you simply go looking for further information.

Maybe tone down the "Homeland" comparisons, though.

In fairness there is a problem there if they didn't communicate signing of secret documents to parents! The best solution is to ASK the school though, open a dialogue with them and find out what the full story is.

Flippyfloppy

Scoobydoo 2 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for their input It appears to be just me who thinks this is wrong
I think there are much easier and more upfront ways of combating cyber bullying the operators of mobile networks have the IMEI number of every device allowed on their network and if requested by the authorities can easily block said devices
I will not approach the school for fear of reprisals against my child
but I will be having a little chat advising my child not to identify anyone for any reason for fear of becoming a victim of same
there was no information given by this school regarding any new anti bullying policy and certainly I would have remembered had they said that children would be sworn in and asked to sign a document identifying other children that they had seen with a phone in their school there can be many valid reasons that a child might need to have a phone in their bag
Im not saying it should be on during school hours but many kids might go to a relative or something after school and nothing wrong with being able to contact them afterwards
I would disagree absolutely with what i would think is an insidious plan to use my child to garner information on other children that ( Homeland security would be proud of ) when cyber bullying should be quite easy to deal with by telecoms operators

you bring your device to the guards with the content on it they go to the operator and bang the bullys device is bricked
end of story

Thanks to everyone for their input
it appears to be just me that thinks this is wrong so I will just try not to draw attention to my child by complaining
Bye

This is such an apt thread title. I am absolutely stunned that you are going to tell your daughter to lie!!!

Think about it. There could be a child who is suicidal from bullying in your daughters school. That's how bad it can be. Firstly, encouraging your daughter to lie could lead the way to something tragic happening. Your daughter will have to live with that forever. Secondly , you're teaching her to lie. Not refuse to sign the form, just lie. Why would you do that? And thirdly, you're teaching her to stand by and say nothing while something awful is going on.

Didn't you see the previous poster talk about the new policy that started over Easter?? You sound very out of touch with your daughters school.

Reprisal? Come on?!?

strongback

I would also be have reservations about writing things down on paper and signing my name to it. What if this "problem" turned legal? Why can't the school intervene, it sounds like the form is an ass covering exercise to me.

As a parent if I got that form I would be saying to myself what hair brained guff have the 'know all know nothing' brigade dreamed up during their coffee break. Teachers have to be the most brainless group ever to come through third level. I knew by the time I was 12 that the vast majority of them were either clueless, degenerates or alcoholics.

byhookorbycrook

Wow, what a wonderful and inaccurate generalisation! Tempted to can it for trolling but am leaving it for novelty value. The school ARE intervening and the anti bullying guidelines come from the DES , but hey, let's not let things like facts get in the way of anything .

You must have been a real joy to teach .

PcAngel

strongback wrote: »

I would also be have reservations about writing things down on paper and signing my name to it. What if this "problem" turned legal? Why can't the school intervene, it sounds like the form is an ass covering exercise to me.

As a parent if I got that form I would be saying to myself what hair brained guff have the 'know all know nothing' brigade dreamed up during their coffee break. Teachers have to be the most brainless group ever to come through third level. I knew by the time I was 12 that the vast majority of them were either clueless, degenerates or alcoholics.

Your post insulting teachers is ridiculous.
It shows that you know nothing of the current situation. As regards being brainless I would think that 470 plus points required for teaching / points to those with functioning brains.

strongback

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Wow, what a wonderful and inaccurate generalisation! Tempted to can it for trolling but am leaving it for novelty value. The school ARE intervening and the anti bullying guidelines come from the DES , but hey, let's not let things like facts get in the way of anything .

You must have been a real joy to teach .

I looked out the window a lot.

I had one good teacher for 2 years. The rest were pretty much passing time, some were in great pain others were sadists.

ShamoBuc

strongback wrote: »

I would also be have reservations about writing things down on paper and signing my name to it. What if this "problem" turned legal? Why can't the school intervene, it sounds like the form is an ass covering exercise to me.

As a parent if I got that form I would be saying to myself what hair brained guff have the 'know all know nothing' brigade dreamed up during their coffee break. Teachers have to be the most brainless group ever to come through third level. I knew by the time I was 12 that the vast majority of them were either clueless, degenerates or alcoholics.

Tempted to let rip at such a ridiculous post but .....its sunny outside and some people like to prove how little they know, so away with ya.

endacl

strongback wrote: »

I looked out the window a lot.

I had one good teacher for 2 years. The rest were pretty much passing time, some were in great pain others were sadists.

I wonder how those teachers remember you...?

byhookorbycrook

Can we get back on topic folks, please?

"Incidents are generally best investigated outside the classroom situation to ensure the privacy of all involved"

"It may also be appropriate or helpful to ask those involved to write down their account of the incident(s)"

All taken from http://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Policy-Reports/Anti-Bullying-Procedures-for-Primary-and-Post-Primary-Schools.pdf
I'd suggest the OP has a good read of this and her/his child's school policy.

SamforMayo

There is a lot waffle about secret documents and so on, the document is like a questionnaire. Also the idea of getting the children in the middle to tell is that those children too are vulnerable and hurt by feeling helpless if someone is bullied and they feel powerless to stop it. I really feel the parents council need to be informing parents on this. There are a lot more changes to how bullying will now be dealt with in school with this new policy. Also this all came from the department not individual schools dreaming it up.