Mental Errors

Montgolfier

Anyone ever had this during a round? Birdie followed by double bogey, then par followed by double bogey...
This happens me a lot I could nearly guarantee a double bogey or worse after a par or birdie.
Playing off 19 but trying to go lower usually score 34-36 never broke 40pts in a comp.
Am I doing something mentally cos my game is great apart from about 6 bad holes a round. Had 6 lessons over the winter hitting the ball great I feel I should be off 15 but Not happening
Any ideas?

ForeRight

Are they mental errors though?

You are off a handicap whereby a bogey and even a DB is normal. A birdie is extra ordinary so when you follow a bird with a bogey I would say it's not a mental error rather it's just your normal game returning.

More consistent golf and better course management will have you down to 15 or so no problem if you are capable of picking up the odd birdie.

LinksLad

Couldn't agree more with ForeRight.
Being a high handicapper is just a natural result of being highly inconsistent.

I play off 21 and "expect" 1 or 2 birdies per round.

So I just try to minimize the damage on my bad holes.

When I play with more consistency, my h'cap goes down, if not it goes up!

It sounds like you're almost waiting for the double when you make the bird - don't - and if it happens anyway, just get on with your round.

Don't sweat on it.

Montgolfier

The biggest problem in my game is discipline.
trying to work the ball when I should just hit it straight.
Also trying to squeeze a little extra juice out of an iron shot and catching it heavy. My coach said that's coz my right shoulder takes over when I try to kill it (ex hurler). Hit the ball with looseness not strength he says.
My course management is something I've been working on and very aware of now.
I don't lose balls anymore like I used too either.
So that's why I was thinking its a loss of focus after a good score.

spacecoyote

Big problem could also be expectation on the course. Playing off 19 you know that technically you don't need a single par to beat your handicap.

18 Bogeys = 37 points.

You should generally try to target hitting every green in GIR+1 at your handicap, that gives you a par putt for 3 points or a 2 putt bogey opportunity for 2 points

geeksauce

I would imagine it has something to do with the mental side of things, for instance are you thinking of the same things on the tee before you make a birdie and on the tee after you have made it?

You could be thinking after the birdie on the next tee 'right got a birdie just keep it together now and stay out of trouble and I can put a score together', whereas before you got the birdie you were probably thinking 'i'll just try hit the driver up the right side of this fairway to give me a good look at the green'.

blue note

spacecoyote wrote: »

Big problem could also be expectation on the course. Playing off 19 you know that technically you don't need a single par to beat your handicap.

18 Bogeys = 37 points.

You should generally try to target hitting every green in GIR+1 at your handicap, that gives you a par putt for 3 points or a 2 putt bogey opportunity for 2 points

I just never agree with this sort of advice. By all means play sensible golf and on some of the holes you should be going for the green in GIR+1. But a 19 handicapper is more likely to 3 putt or miss the green after laying up to 60 yards. And on the majority of holes going for the green in regulation is not any sort of golfing suicide.

Go for the pars and the bogeys will come. Go for the bogeys and the double bogeys will come!

spacecoyote

blue note wrote: »

I just never agree with this sort of advice. By all means play sensible golf and on some of the holes you should be going for the green in GIR+1. But a 19 handicapper is more likely to 3 putt or miss the green after laying up to 60 yards. And on the majority of holes going for the green in regulation is not any sort of golfing suicide.

Go for the pars and the bogeys will come. Go for the bogeys and the double bogeys will come!

Sorry, I should qualify that. I meant that your aim at a handicap of 19 should to be on the green generally in GIR+1 at worst.

Obviously if you've just blasted a drive down the centre of a par 4 & are holding a wedge in your hand for your second, then you want to hit the green in 2 & should go for it.

But if you've just mis-hit your drive and are left with 230 yards in, then don't take out your 3 wood & go for glory, take the longest club you can that will get you in range of hitting the green in 3.

The OP wants to improve his scoring. If he takes that approach I would believe that the 6 scratches he has on his cards would become bogeys/doubles at worst (a double will still be a point if you're playing off 19, or even 2 points on the index 1)

Montgolfier

Well guys I don't want to just play to my hcp I want to beat so I get cut.
I regularly score 35-37 Pts but never can break 40. I often score 22-23 Pts of that on the front 9. Somehow errors show up on the back 9. It's only lately I noticed when have a birdie it's followed by dbl bogey. It's killing my game.
Guess if I didn't get excited when I got a birdie I'd have more focus on the next.
I expect to hit the green from 8iron in, that's what I practice.
I could be forcing it too, I am expecting to get cut every time I play.

SEORG

I'm no golfing expert but I have managed to get my handicap down this year.

You have a shot on every hole & 2 on index one, use those shots..a bogey is par against the course for you. If you bogey every hole you have 37pts, that would usually result in a cut.

Also take your punishment and forget about the 'hero' shots..

Practice your short game - this is what will get your handicap down more than anything else..It will convert those doubles into bogeys or pars.

The one thing that I changed in my approach is club selection, I was selecting the club based on how far I hit the ball when I crushed it with the perfect strike, that probably happens 10% of the time. Be realistic.

Patience is key, I had six lessons last year, was off 14 at the time..I finished the year on 13. This year it has come together early for me and I'm now just inside single figures but it has taken 18 months to get to that goal I set myself.

Don't know if any of the above relates to you but hope it helps.

Best of luck and enjoy it.

GreeBo

Montgolfier wrote: »

Well guys I don't want to just play to my hcp I want to beat so I get cut.
I regularly score 35-37 Pts but never can break 40. I often score 22-23 Pts of that on the front 9. Somehow errors show up on the back 9. It's only lately I noticed when have a birdie it's followed by dbl bogey. It's killing my game.
Guess if I didn't get excited when I got a birdie I'd have more focus on the next.
I expect to hit the green from 8iron in, that's what I practice.
I could be forcing it too, I am expecting to get cut every time I play.

You are going to shoot 40 points by having more pars and less doubles not doubles offset by birdies.

blue note

spacecoyote wrote: »

Sorry, I should qualify that. I meant that your aim at a handicap of 19 should to be on the green generally in GIR+1 at worst.

Obviously if you've just blasted a drive down the centre of a par 4 & are holding a wedge in your hand for your second, then you want to hit the green in 2 & should go for it.

But if you've just mis-hit your drive and are left with 230 yards in, then don't take out your 3 wood & go for glory, take the longest club you can that will get you in range of hitting the green in 3.

The OP wants to improve his scoring. If he takes that approach I would believe that the 6 scratches he has on his cards would become bogeys/doubles at worst (a double will still be a point if you're playing off 19, or even 2 points on the index 1)

I think we're on the same wavelength to be honest. I play off 15 and am sometimes stupidly sensible. The only thing worse than scratching a hole because you tried a stupid shot is playing safe and ending up with a scratch anyway. So for that reason, I think we all need to remember when hammering home the point that off 19 you don't need pars, that sometimes the best way to get a bogey is to play for a par.

It's all about risk vs reward at the end of the day. Even off 19, there are times when you should go for a par 5 in 2. If it's a makeable shot and and it can't go too wrong if you mess it up, then it's the right shot!

GreeBo

By all means go for a par, but not if a missed shot causes a double or worse.

FixdePitchmark

Montgolfer - when your having the doubles what causes them.

Use golfshot to see where you are losing shots.

Then target this.

Never go for a bogey.

Montgolfier

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Montgolfer - when your having the doubles what causes them.

Use golfshot to see where you are losing shots.

Then target this.

Never go for a bogey.

Fat iron shot after a good drive is common for me.
Or not paying attention to ball position on my woods ie I topped one the last day cause ball was too far forward. I suspected it at set up but swung at it anyway (which is even more annoying).
My lessons were focused on hitting good iron shots and they have improved just getting the odd one at critical times.
Probably take a bit of time.

FixdePitchmark

blue note wrote: »

I just never agree with this sort of advice. By all means play sensible golf and on some of the holes you should be going for the green in GIR+1. But a 19 handicapper is more likely to 3 putt or miss the green after laying up to 60 yards. And on the majority of holes going for the green in regulation is not any sort of golfing suicide.

Go for the pars and the bogeys will come. Go for the bogeys and the double bogeys will come!

I agree It is ridiculous advice.

You have to course manage in accordance with your weakness - but you also have to consider strengths.

For example - many holes I play, you need to lay up from 180 to 210 yards. Not all high handicap players can hit a low iron well - they can top - shank etc. I see lads laying up with hybrids - but can't play them - the driver has a big surface area , for some lads at a high handicap - this large spot to hit ball provides comfort. Everybody is different - I've played with many 15 to 18 handicap players that are far more accurate drivers of the ball.

Some of these lads can hit the driver well and straight with a higher % of positive outcomes.
Also some courses have trouble short.

Then there are lads with muck short games like me, If I played bogey golf I would get doubles.

I also think you are limiting yourself - play the game as it should be played - use it as a reference for where you need to improve. If you design a new game around a flaw - you are stuck with going for bogey golf. Nobody on here - should or is (IMO) aiming to stay at that level

Try play the game as you should - and sort out the issue that you are losing shots with on range - practice or with lessons. Try hard to resolve a weakness - don't be comfortable practising your strength.

In a couple of exceptions - very low index holes you may have to reconsider this. Very low index 1 to 5. But this should be a last resort - you have given up on improving in golf, in my opinion. Not saying you can't enjoy it - but you are not going to find out where your game is.

But a 17 handicap player going for a bogey on index 17 - is only hiding from his weakness.
Sure why hit a driver at all - play golf with a 6 iron - is that what we are saying.

Be honest with your weakness - don't hide from them.

If you are buying into this bogey idea - you are limiting the golfer you can be.

Humans are limited by , their own limitations.

Look at the 4 minute mile. It wasn't possible apparently.

FixdePitchmark

Montgolfier wrote: »

Fat iron shot after a good drive is common for me.
Or not paying attention to ball position on my woods ie I topped one the last day cause ball was too far forward. I suspected it at set up but swung at it anyway (which is even more annoying).
My lessons were focused on hitting good iron shots and they have improved just getting the odd one at critical times.
Probably take a bit of time.

Well then - give time on lessons.

But try record exactly how you are losing shots - write little notes on card.
Golfshot is the job.

Improve this area. But you need to know exactly what it is.

Are you having to reload much from tee - OOB - Lost - Water - Woods ?

slingerz

I was similar to you and am off 16 now with the capacity to knock another few shots off my handicap.

I would suggest following some good course management practices especially from the tee. Secondly practice your short game specifically the little chips from off the side of the green and lastly your putting, aim to take it 2 putts at most on a green. The dreaded 3 putt or 4 putt will destroy a hole that you have played well until you got out the short stick

GreeBo

I divide up mental errors into the following categories:

1) Changing the plan as a result of a good or bad shot
e.g. Great drive means I can go for it now. Bad drive means I need to chip out and then go for it to make it up.
2) Leaving myself above the hole
e.g. we have a couple of greens with severe slope, chipping or putting or even approach shots should always be under the hole to give any chance to the next shot. Especially poor from within 50M.
3) layup to wrong place (blocked, downhill lie etc)
4) Lack of focus over the ball
5) Not restarting routine if something goes wrong (club snags, someone distracts etc)

2) is my biggest problem, followed by 5)
I'm pretty good at 1), 3) & 4) (eventually!)

Montgolfier

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well then - give time on lessons.

But try record exactly how you are losing shots - write little notes on card.
Golfshot is the job.

Improve this area. But you need to know exactly what it is.

Are you having to reload much from tee - OOB - Lost - Water - Woods ?

I used to record fir, gir and putts but it's a bit too much detail. So now I just note where I went wrong on a bogey or higher, ie. 3 putt or fat second shot etc.

Goldenjohn

LinksLad wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with ForeRight.
Being a high handicapper is just a natural result of being highly inconsistent.

I play off 21 and "expect" 1 or 2 birdies per round.

So I just try to minimize the damage on my bad holes.

When I play with more consistency, my h'cap goes down, if not it goes up!

It sounds like you're almost waiting for the double when you make the bird - don't - and if it happens anyway, just get on with your round.

Don't sweat on it.

Off 21 it sounds like u hit plenty of hero shots. If u expect birdies that means plenty of blanks/doubles/triples as well. Perhaps birdie means an over confident shot on the next hole.....listen to greebo...solid golf is the key

blue note

Montgolfier wrote: »

I used to record fir, gir and putts but it's a bit too much detail. So now I just note where I went wrong on a bogey or higher, ie. 3 putt or fat second shot etc.

I usually think back after a round on a Monday about why I dropped shots. I don’t use any app or record anything during the round, but it’s easy enough to remember your round. I just count how many shots bad drives, woods, irons, pitches, chips, bunker shots and putts cost me during the round. I usually feel I’d have come in about 4 or 5 over had I not hit bad shots – I always find that there were a couple of bogeys where I didn’t really play the hole badly.

I virtually always find putting to be the number one cause of dropped shots – a minimum of 4 during a round from 3 putts and missed short ones (inside 3 feet). Driving is the other area where sometimes I could have a few dropped shots. A bad drive can often cost you two shots, so two of them in a round and it’s hard to make them up. The other categories will have one or two scattered between them, but virtually never enough to wreck a round on their own.

Then I try to cheer myself up by thinking about where I gained shots during a round – good irons or pitches that gave me a great chance for an up and down, a good drive that made the par likely instead of possible, a putt from outside of 3 feet.

And then I go about my day thinking that I am actually a really good golfer, because the bad shots aren’t really me and when you ignore them I’m comfortably a low single digits golfer.

Rikand

Montgolfier wrote: »

This happens me a lot I could nearly guarantee a double bogey or worse after a par or birdie.
?

it's remembering this detail that imprints it in your mind. " just had a par so I'll probably have a double next. "

my dad does the same thing. He'll do something good and instantly start thinking how he's going to mess up the next shot. Say something like " i always take a 6 on the first.... " he'll conspire to do exactly that.

thinking one shot at a time is what helps me beat this kind of thing. Focus fully on the shot at hand, don't think about what's gone on before or what's ahead at the green, just the shot you're hitting.

I've got a fairway in front of me that i need to hit and put every ounce of everything into that shot alone... Helps eliminate other bad mental thoughts that might lead to the double bogey after the par.

hope this helps

Corkblowin

Montgolfier wrote: »

I used to record fir, gir and putts but it's a bit too much detail. So now I just note where I went wrong on a bogey or higher, ie. 3 putt or fat second shot etc.

While its good to note where you went wrong, you need to be careful with it because you are in danger of reinforcing the bad thoughts.

For example you go home after the round and see you recored 5 duffed shots and four 3-putts. Next day you're out what is likely to be the first thought into your head when lining up your approach or a long putt? Probably something like - don't duff it!

Personally I remember where I went wrong, but I never write down a negative.

When I was in the habit of recording my rounds I wrote down 3/5 good things I did. Even if its something simple like 'backed off a shot and started again because I wasn't comfortable'.

After a few months of doing this you'll find yourself looking over your notes of all these good shots etc thinking, 'I'm not bad at this game'!

Good thoughts give a higher chance of a good outcome.

Rikand

What Cork said

Montgolfier

The last few posts have been really good guy. Positive renforcement makes a lot more sense than recording duffed shots.

I have used that method in life in general don't know what happened on the golf course. Negative thoughts inspire negative actions. I'm going to start recording my good shots/actions.

Funny I played one best 11 holes (27 points) in the worst conditions wind and rain last year. Only coming in cause comp was called off. I wasn't thinking about anything just hitting the next shot.

slingerz

Dont get carried away with your score or think about what score you have too as that can lead to nerves and a tightening up of your swing as a result

Loire

Montgolfier wrote: »

Anyone ever had this during a round? Birdie followed by double bogey, then par followed by double bogey...
This happens me a lot I could nearly guarantee a double bogey or worse after a par or birdie.
Playing off 19 but trying to go lower usually score 34-36 never broke 40pts in a comp.
Am I doing something mentally cos my game is great apart from about 6 bad holes a round. Had 6 lessons over the winter hitting the ball great I feel I should be off 15 but Not happening
Any ideas?

"Beware the drive after a birdie"

Montgolfier

Loire wrote: »

"Beware the drive after a birdie"

Beware the long drive that leaves you 6yds from the hole. I took a 5, chip onto the green leaving me a 12 footer down hill. Got out with 5, now that's mental.

agusta

Montgolfier wrote: »

The last few posts have been really good guy. Positive renforcement makes a lot more sense than recording duffed shots.

I have used that method in life in general don't know what happened on the golf course. Negative thoughts inspire negative actions. I'm going to start recording my good shots/actions.

Funny I played one best 11 holes (27 points) in the worst conditions wind and rain last year. Only coming in cause comp was called off. I wasn't thinking about anything just hitting the next shot.

gary players says " A 50 foot wall follows directly behind him while playing golf" so you cant think or look back at the previous shot.All you have is the next shot and next target.From your posts i think that your weakness could be the fat shot and the 3 putt.
my opinion would be that if you eliminate the fat shot "the negative" through swing drills and turn it into a "positive ", no more fat shots,just a nice crisp contact.I like this swing drill in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if42dSmug7A

PARlance

agusta wrote: »

gary players says " A 50 foot wall follows directly behind him while playing golf" so you cant think or look back at the previous shot.All you have is the next shot and

Good mental image but that wall may need to be 15 foot behind me at times so I can't see that last chunked one

Montgolfier

PARlance wrote: »

Good mental image but that wall may need to be 15 foot behind me at times so I can't see that last chunked one

Yeah or it might catch the club on the way back

I watched Garry Players documentary on sky, he is inspiring, they called him the terrier. Wouldn't mind buying his autobiography.
Just bought the Karl Morris's book called Attention the secret to you playing great golf. Honestly average golf would do me.

PARlance

Montgolfier wrote: »

Yeah or it might catch the club on the way back

I watched Garry Players documentary on sky, he is inspiring, they called him the terrier. Wouldn't mind buying his autobiography.
Just bought the Karl Morris's book called Attention the secret to you playing great golf. Honestly average golf would do me.

Karl has a free app on iOS (not sure about android) called "the mind factor". Well worth a listen and I'm long overdue another listen.

Montgolfier

PARlance wrote: »

Karl has a free app on iOS (not sure about android) called "the mind factor". Well worth a listen and I'm long overdue another listen.

Downloaded it last night sorry I bought the book now.
Listened to it in the scratcher last night he makes a lot of sense.
Did you buy the full package?