Bute in Irish Beef cattle

trixi2011

so just saw the cover of the farming indo on facebook. What's the story with bute in beef cattle ? What were the advantages of giving the cattle this banned substance. Really don't think this could of come out at a worse time for the Irish beef industry, Any opinions

sheebadog

trixi2011 wrote: »

so just saw the cover of the farming indo on facebook. What's the story with brute in beef cattle ? What were the advantages of giving the cattle this banned substance. Really don't think this could of come out at a worse time for the Irish beef industry, Any opinions

What's Brute?

Reggie.

trixi2011 wrote: »

so just saw the cover of the farming indo on facebook. What's the story with brute in beef cattle ? What were the advantages of giving the cattle this banned substance. Really don't think this could of come out at a worse time for the Irish beef industry, Any opinions

Never heard of bute

trixi2011

sheebadog wrote: »

What's Brute?

Think its some sort of cheap deodorant it was bute that was found in the cattle

sheebadog

trixi2011 wrote: »

Think its some sort of cheap deodorant it was bute that was found in the cattle

Phenylbutazone or "bute" for short.
Thought that was a painkiller for horses. They mixing horse meat again?

trixi2011

sheebadog wrote: »

Phenylbutazone or "bute" for short.
Thought that was a painkiller for horses. They mixing horse meat again?

don't know can only read the headline on the link seems to be that it was used in pedigree cattle for some reason cant see the benefit of using a horse painkiller in cattle

moy83

Im not sure what it is but I think its a steriod they use in horses . Illegal in cattle or for human consumption .

freedominacup

trixi2011 wrote: »

don't know can only read the headline on the link seems to be that it was used in pedigree cattle for some reason cant see the benefit of using a horse painkiller in cattle

Not a painkiller, a sedative. Probably used for keeping bulls quite at shows. Farmers who used it herds gone no compensation, vets who prescribed it struck off no talk just immediate action. Criminal prosecution should also u on the agenda.

Conmaicne Mara

trixi2011 wrote: »

don't know can only read the headline

Use the zoom function on your browser, I could read all text on those snippets doing that using google chrome but am gone off fb now.

dh1985

Google it on the net. The article is readable from there. Limosin bulls on painkillers is the gist of what there saying. Maybe more to it than that

whelan2

when we where showing cattle there was 1 farmer who we where told was feeding turkey feed to his cattle as there was growth promoters in it, have these been taken out of turkey feed. This would have been 20 years ago

bogman_bass

What a stupid, stupid thing to do. Zero tolerence was the only answer there

whelan2

freedominacup wrote: »

Not a painkiller, a sedative. Probably used for keeping bulls quite at shows. Farmers who used it herds gone no compensation, vets who prescribed it struck off no talk just immediate action. Criminal prosecution should also u on the agenda.

where the vets really struck off:eek::eek: i am all for no tolerance of this type of thing but thats :eek:

Base price

whelan2 wrote: »

when we where showing cattle there was 1 farmer who we where told was feeding turkey feed to his cattle as there was growth promoters in it, have these been taken out of turkey feed. This would have been 20 years ago

I heard of that going on too at the time.

Bute is an anti inflamatory painkiller and it does not contain steroids. I cannot figure out why the breeder would be using it.

blue5000

Base price wrote: »

I heard of that going on too at the time.

Bute is an anti inflamatory painkiller and it does not contain steroids. I cannot figure out why the breeder would be using it.

Because he was a prize pr1ck. This is all we need now.

GrandSoftDay

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/probe-into-use-of-drug-bute-in-show-cattle-30287318.html

Rovi

Here's the article:
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/probe-into-use-of-drug-bute-in-show-cattle-30287318.html

Excerpt (full article at the link above):

Probe into use of drug 'bute' in show cattle

DARRAGH MCCULLOUGH – PUBLISHED 20 MAY 2014 02:30 AM

A MAJOR investigation is under way into the use of banned carcinogenic painkillers in pedigree cattle.

It comes after a blood sample from a pedigree Limousin bull at a recent show in Roscrea allegedly showed up traces of phenylbutazone, or 'bute', as the drug is more commonly known.

Sources within the industry claimed that some beef cattle farmers use the banned drug to enhance the performance of their animals in the show ring, similar to what was common at top- flight equestrian competitions.

[MOD]

Needless to say, but we'll say it anyway, even if you personally know (or THINK you know) more details of the people or events involved in this, DO NOT post anything here that can not be verified through a reputable source in the public domain!

[/MOD]

kake

Base price wrote: »

I cannot figure out why the breeder would be using it.

There are a number of reasons as to why it is used. It is an anti - inflamatery. It could be used to sedate. It could also be used to hide the effects of other prohibited substances. It is a really effective treatment for hoof problems that pedigree cattle are prone to. It is also very effective for arthritis in animals. At this stage we would not even prescribe it for horses because there are many other effective treatments out there.

There was a Vet here struck off for illegal distribution of it a number of years back and now he is working in a meat factory. It was being used to mask other substances.

Base price

Rovi wrote: »

Here's the article:
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/probe-into-use-of-drug-bute-in-show-cattle-30287318.html

Excerpt (full article at the link above):


[MOD]

Needless to say, but we'll say it anyway, even if you personally know (or THINK you know) more details of the people or events involved in this, DO NOT post anything here that can not be verified through a reputable source in the public domain!

[/MOD]

Thanks Rovi, I could not open the link as the internet signal is very slow this morning.

tabby aspreme

The reason such a hard line is taken against bute is that its carcinogenic, horse passports list vetineary treatments and treated horses cannot enter the food chain, these bulls would eventually end up as food

onyerbikepat

I remember seeing a young bull acting up at the ploughing a few years back. Head butting the pen gate and all that. Passed the same bull a few hours later and and he was all dopey, eyelids half closed. Probably a legal sedative, but it was very obvious looking at him.
I wonder did the Limousin bull have low stars for docility?

dh1985

If one had bought a limosin bull at a sale and it was later determined to have been on this stuff I take it the bull would be confiscated and destroyed maybe. Who would be responsible for you been out the bull. Is it the society

Greengrass1

dh1985 wrote: »

If one had bought a limosin bull at a sale and it was later determined to have been on this stuff I take it the bull would be confiscated and destroyed maybe. Who would be responsible for you been out the bull. Is it the society

Seemingly that is what has happened. Lads that have bought breeding bulls of this person have had them taken off them.

dh1985

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Seemingly that is what has happened. Lads that have bought breeding bulls of this person have had them taken off them.

They obviously get the price of the bull back I take it

I said

Another kick in the bollix to the beef industry no matter what way it's dressed

Mad4simmental

Sumone like that should have their herd number pulled from under them also.
They should test for this and the dust in every show.

Reggie.

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Sumone like that should have their herd number pulled from under them also.
They should test for this and the dust in every show.

+1

Conmaicne Mara

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Sumone like that should have their herd number pulled from under them also.
They should test for this and the dust in every show.

Yeah, I was thinking about the story earlier. It should be focusing on the individuals concerned, not the entire sector. Inevitably the sector would get dragged in anyway I suppose. You're right about the herd number, at least when it concerns them who knowingly gave animals under their care these substances.

spyderski

The journalist, or someone here has almost certainly made a mistake. Its much more likely that its Clenbuterol than Phenylbutazone. Clenbuterol has well known benefits in promoting lean meat growth in cattle. Both drugs are often referred to as "bute" but Phenylbutazone is only really a sedative, which would only be any use to quieten showing cattle, which as a % of the beef entering the food chain would be minuscule.

Clenbuterol is widely used in cattle in South America, and there has been several cases of contamination in the EU.

Kovu

spyderski wrote: »

The journalist, or someone here has almost certainly made a mistake. Its much more likely that its Clenbuterol than Phenylbutazone. Clenbuterol has well known benefits in promoting lean meat growth in cattle. Both drugs are often referred to as "bute" but Phenylbutazone is only really a sedative, which would only be any use to quieten showing cattle, which as a % of the beef entering the food chain would be minuscule.

Clenbuterol is widely used in cattle in South America, and there has been several cases of contamination in the EU.

As the sample was taken from an animal at a show, it is highly likely that the journalist in this case is correct.
No matter what percentage entered the food chain, it should not have entered it in the first place. The drug itself is not supposed to be used at all in beef animals and is a carcinogenic.
How many times could these animals have been sedated and shown, especially as the breeder under investigation was a major breeder in show cattle.

vanderbadger

on one of the the other forums someone mentioned his friend has a bull slaughtered by dept, he had bought the bull for big money off this breeder (presumably the same breeder mentioned in article). poor chap is well out of pocket..gangsters in every walk of life i suppose

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

Hope to God this person is never allowed to deal with any sort of animal again.

The Nutty M

Hopefully now they will crack down on the use of it and other stuff at shows and sales.

onyerbikepat

As far as I know, The Limousin Society have been random drug testing for a few years now. The 'Sales Entry Form' clearly states this.

See second last paragragh on the first sheet;
http://www.irishlimousin.com/Sale_Entry_Form.pdf

greysides

'Bute', or phenylbutazone, is a NSAID, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Other NSAIDs include Aspirin, Paracetamol, Ibuprofen and Finadyne. They are pain-killing drugs by virtue of reducing inflammation. They are NOT sedatives.

Given that bulls at shows/sales are likely to be heavy and to have been standing while travelling a large distance, or have been heavily fed meal to perform (acidosis-> laminitis), foot soreness is a problem. A sluggish, lame bull might not sell well.

Bute was/is available as an injection but it is commonly fed to horses as a powder for ease of administration. It may have been used on a bull for the same reason.

RightTurnClyde

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I remember seeing a young bull acting up at the ploughing a few years back. Head butting the pen gate and all that. Passed the same bull a few hours later and and he was all dopey, eyelids half closed.

Maybe he was after gettin the ride.:)

bogman_bass

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Yeah, I was thinking about the story earlier. It should be focusing on the individuals concerned, not the entire sector. Inevitably the sector would get dragged in anyway I suppose. You're right about the herd number, at least when it concerns them who knowingly gave animals under their care these substances.

Darragh McCullagh doesn't worry about that sort of thing when he writes a story.:mad:

mahoney_j

Another prime example of us farmers shooting ourselves in the foot,we will never learn.

Moneygall

Phenylbutazone is banned from use in food producing animals...ie animals destined for food chain.. thats why horses without passports are worthless I presume the drug was given to treat lameness and as such the treated animal should never enter the food chain. Roscrea Mart knows nothing about it so its probably unlikely the animal was sampled there .Was this animal sampled in Roscrea Mart or elsewhere ? .....a lot of unanswered questions

whelan2

The Nutty M wrote: »

Hopefully now they will crack down on the use of it and other stuff at shows and sales.

there are so many things you hear people doing, used to hate going to shows, our dates of birth for cattle where always the day they where born on, there was always other cattle in our class that must have been registered months after their birth.:cool: This crack of feeding turkey meal and milk replacer powder to cattle to make them thrive better is/was only the tip of the iceberg. Alot of people who return to buy bulls from us say at least when they buy stock from us what you see is what you get. Not an animal that melts a few weeks after paying a massive price for them

dh1985

whelan2 wrote: »

there are so many things you hear people doing, used to hate going to shows, our dates of birth for cattle where always the day they where born on, there was always other cattle in our class that must have been registered months after their birth.:cool: This crack of feeding turkey meal and milk replacer powder to cattle to make them thrive better is/was only the tip of the iceberg. Alot of people who return to buy bulls from us say at least when they buy stock from us what you see is what you get. Not an animal that melts a few weeks after paying a massive price for them

You have a very valid point there. I have sympathy for these people after going out paying big money for bulls and then when they have them home wasting away on them. I understand how bulls would obviously fail when taken off the big diets but to get a bull and have him waste away or turn lame suddenly due to some illegal supplement been administered must be very annoying and disheartening. As for the above substance been illegal thats a whole other problem.

Bellview

whelan2 wrote: »

there are so many things you hear people doing, used to hate going to shows, our dates of birth for cattle where always the day they where born on, there was always other cattle in our class that must have been registered months after their birth.:cool: This crack of feeding turkey meal and milk replacer powder to cattle to make them thrive better is/was only the tip of the iceberg. Alot of people who return to buy bulls from us say at least when they buy stock from us what you see is what you get. Not an animal that melts a few weeks after paying a massive price for them

Agreed on above. Lots of bulls that made fancy prices popped up infertile after the turkey g and this i guess is one of reasons folks stopped using the stuff as red rosettes were costing them too much money!

jt65

whelan2 wrote: »

there are so many things you hear people doing, used to hate going to shows, our dates of birth for cattle where always the day they where born on, there was always other cattle in our class that must have been registered months after their birth.:cool: This crack of feeding turkey meal and milk replacer powder to cattle to make them thrive better is/was only the tip of the iceberg. Alot of people who return to buy bulls from us say at least when they buy stock from us what you see is what you get. Not an animal that melts a few weeks after paying a massive price for them

if you follow the shows you will notice that another big time exhibitor has disappeared from the ring in the last year or so , I believe the breed society clamped down big time on his birth reg dates after complaints & other exhibitors began boycotting shows that he was attending

bogman_bass

The amout of skullduggery that goes on in that game is unreal

tanko

Is it public knowledge who the breeder is?

[MOD]

Even if you personally know (or THINK you know) more details of the people or events involved in this, DO NOT post anything here that can not be verified through a reputable source in the public domain!

[/MOD]

GrandSoftDay

tanko wrote: »

Is it public knowledge who the breeder is?

I heard it and I'm a long way away from him so it must be fairly well known. Bad news always travels fast anyway!

Brown Podzol

If you take the long term, holistic view the checks and tests are finding all this stuff and cleaning up the industry. From angle dust, hormones, antibiotic growth promoters, horsemeat etc. If nothing was ever found then people could be justified in having a cynical attitude towards the provenance of Irish beef. As a result of the tight policing of the beef industry the public and our overseas customers can be assured of the purity and quality of the product. Saying that anyone found fcuking with the livelihoods of thousands of Irish beef farmers deserve the severest punishment and the derision of all Irish farmers.

theredbull

I have read with interest the posts on this subject and am appalled at the media scaremongering and mis information in the papers and on this site.

Yes a bull was tested positive for bute in a random test carried out by the limousin society at a sale in roscrea. This was the first ever positive to my knowledge in years of testing for sedatives/narcotics. about 10% of the bulls in Roscrea are tested every year for at least the last 20 years. This would be about 30 bulls a year. The positive test was disappointing and i believe the breeder involved was sanctioned. His cattle had been tested previously and there was never a problem.

The department's siu are now investigating the farmer. For a journalist to print the sh1t that mccullough printed yesterday was very irresponsible. I am not condoning or justifying the incident. it was a serious breach of animal and human safety but the breed societies testing procedures identified the problem. Too link this apparently once off incident to drug abuse in showing circles and question the safety of irish beef was way ott. He should have waited until the investigation by the department was concluded and written an article based on the facts and not engagged in scaremongering and pointing a finger farmers who show cattle.

<MOD Snip>

[MOD]

Please refrain from making allegations that are not proven and are just hearsay

[/MOD]

Guys on this site saying that bulls bought off the farmer in this case were being destroyed is also incorrect. At least its the first ive heard of it and i would keep an ear fairly close to the ground where pedigree cattle are involved. Bulls treated with this drug pose no risk as working bulls but they cannot enter the food chain when their romancing days are over.

Lets get this mess solved and deal with fact and not rumour.

naughto

Was there a post deleted cos I got a email alert for a new post

whelan2

naughto wrote: »

Was there a post deleted cos I got a email alert for a new post

yes

naughto

Why was it deleted?