Reduced Rate IVF for Medical Card Holders

donutheadhomer

I was not aware of this until recently but the state actually subsidises the artificial impregnation of women who hold medical cards. Basically these women pay a few hundred Euro to a clinic and the tax payer cough up and E5000 to the private clinics. There was an old thread on boards outlining the figures. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056367409

From the experience of someone I know of, this is for more than a single pregnancy (bad enough) but can be used for any umber of attempted pregnancies: this person I know has had 3 children and a number of other attempts paid for by the tax payer

Perhaps whichever government dept sanctions this fiasco is not aware of it but it seems very wasteful: I’m forever listening to how difficult it is to get a medical card based on one’s financial circumstances but surely if these people can come up with E500 per pregnancy so easily then an investigation into how they came about this money could be instigated/

The woman I’m aware of has never had a job and her fella lost his years ago and now refuses to look for work as is too busy looking after children.

axel rose

In that case we should take medical cards off everybody! That will learn them!

Ihatecuddles

Ive always found medical cards themselves boost fertility!

donutheadhomer

axel rose wrote: »

In that case we should take medical cards off everybody! That will learn them!

no obviously not, those in medical need should get them. But requiring 3 children should not be paid for by the state. Anyway why is the services of the HSE not good enough for these people: does the HSE offer treatment to get pregnant also? There should be a one child limit to this service also as this country can ill afford this waste.

Penny Tration

So, because some people cannot afford to pay thousands for fertility treatment, they shouldn't have it subsidised?

If a couple want children, cannot conceive naturally, but cannot afford the full cost of fertility treatment, I see no issue with helping them.

If someone wants children that much, I support helping them to conceive.

fullaljackeen

Subsidised IVF. Is that a free ride for people on the dole?

Freddie Dodge

green_screen wrote: »

So, because some people cannot afford to pay thousands for fertility treatment, they shouldn't have it subsidised?

If a couple want children, cannot conceive naturally, but cannot afford the full cost of fertility treatment, I see no issue with helping them.

If someone wants children that much, I support helping them to conceive.

Even where they demonstrably cannot support them ?

No wonder this country is fcucked with this attitude.

donutheadhomer

green_screen wrote: »

So, because some people cannot afford to pay thousands for fertility treatment, they shouldn't have it subsidised?

If a couple want children, cannot conceive naturally, but cannot afford the full cost of fertility treatment, I see no issue with helping them.

If someone wants children that much, I support helping them to conceive.

and at what point do you suggest stopping the treatment? So far this person has had 3 children. Parents do not work and really can’t afford 3 children. Do you think the state should let them have 10 children? In this case they can’t naturally conceive due to self inflicted obesity (not an incurable disease)

I could do with a bit more hair on top too but I can’t get this subsidised.

axel rose

donutheadhomer wrote: »

no obviously not, those in medical need should get them. But requiring 3 children should not be paid for by the state. Anyway why is the services of the HSE not good enough for these people: does the HSE offer treatment to get pregnant also? There should be a one child limit to this service also as this country can ill afford this waste.

So you know ONE PERSON with three children using her MC to avail of subsidised IVF, you want to limit the number of children people can have. Unless of course they can pay for more children.........Isn't that a bit.......Chinese????? Do you really want to go there?

Mac B

People paying privately also get help by claiming back from revenue in annual expenses.

Anyone going through the mental and physical as anguish of ivf deserve all the help they can get, do not under estimate how hard this is and they don't need to be burdened with higher financial problems due to the natural desire to have children

Stheno

Mac B wrote: »

People paying privately also get help by claiming back from revenue in annual expenses.

Anyone going through the mental and physical as anguish of ivf deserve all the help they can get, do not under estimate how hard this is and they don't need to be burdened with higher financial problems due to the natural desire to have children

I know a few years ago that those having private treatment had their drugs payments capped at the normal monthly limit, this might have changed however?

I had friends at the time who without this financial support could not have had the very much loved child they cherish

Hotale.com

axel rose wrote: »

So you know ONE PERSON with three children using her MC to avail of subsidised IVF, you want to limit the number of children people can have. Unless of course they can pay for more children.........Isn't that a bit.......Chinese????? Do you really want to go there?

:pac:

donutheadhomer

Mac B wrote: »

People paying privately also get help by claiming back from revenue in annual expenses.

Anyone going through the mental and physical as anguish of ivf deserve all the help they can get, do not under estimate how hard this is and they don't need to be burdened with higher financial problems due to the natural desire to have children

These people have burdened themselves with this anguish by neglected their health and we are forced to carry the can for it

This is just one example of it and I’m sure there are lots more instances of it.

With my hand on my heart I can understand to have 1 child after many years of trying and perhaps the state can assist with this but not multiple pregnancies.

sdanseo

If you can't afford €5,000 to conceive the child, how are you going to come up with the €212,000 odd it costs to raise it?

donutheadhomer

Why does it need to be done in Private Clinics at great cost to the state. Could this not be done by the HSE?

Freddie Dodge

Mac B 448496 wrote:

People paying privately also get help by claiming back from revenue in annual expenses.

Anyone going through the mental and physical as anguish of ivf deserve all the help they can get, do not under estimate how hard this is and they don't need to be burdened with higher financial problems due to the natural desire to have children

Does this "natural desire" include a desire to support them oneself ?

There are tens of thousands of working couples making the decision that they can't afford another child, having only one already. These people are contributors, being taxed to pay for more generations of social welfare parasites.

Stheno

donutheadhomer wrote: »

These people have burdened themselves with this anguish by neglected their health and we are forced to carry the can for it

This is just one example of it and I’m sure there are lots more instances of it.

With my hand on my heart I can understand to have 1 child after many years of trying and perhaps the state can assist with this but not multiple pregnancies.

There are many conditions that cause people to be unable to conceive, PCOS, low fertility, in my friends case a surgical procedure that went horribly wrong, and for some, cancer.

Don't be so heartless

sdeire wrote: »

If you can't afford €5,000 to conceive the child, how are you going to come up with the €212,000 odd it costs to raise it?

The 5,000 is the beginning of it for a lot of couples, it's upfront, that estimated 212,000 is over 20 years or so.

Much easier to absorb costs on a monthly basis than being prohibited from accessing services due to upfront lump sums of cash

sdanseo

donutheadhomer wrote: »

Why does it need to be done in Private Clinics are great cost to the state. Could this not be done by the HSE?

Private clinics are well run, probably much better so than any public hospital. They operate on the principle of value for money (for their owners, as a business).

The HSE, on the other hand, operates on the principal of fairlyand > reality.

Mac B

Stheno wrote: »

I know a few years ago that those having private treatment had their drugs payments capped at the normal monthly limit, this might have changed however?

I had friends at the time who without this financial support could not have had the very much loved child they cherish

I think the drugs perceived by the clinic is capped at normal family drug payment scheme amount, but the thousands paid to the clnic for treatment is subsided by claiming back from revenue. Your right, without this many parents either couldn't do it or would go ahead and suffer the financial stress (most likely). My own kids are ivf, it was hell to do and without this financial help our lives would not be the same.

I've also had to tell friends to claim back from revenue, they hadn't realised they could that but were doing the ivf anyway.

Anyone on ivf deserve whatever financial help they can get

donutheadhomer

Stheno wrote: »

There are many conditions that cause people to be unable to conceive, PCOS, low fertility, in my friends case a surgical procedure that went horribly wrong, and for some, cancer.

Don't be so heartless


The 5,000 is the beginning of it for a lot of couples, it's upfront, that estimated 212,000 is over 20 years or so.

Much easier to absorb costs on a monthly basis than being prohibited from accessing services due to upfront lump sums of cash

I’m far from heartless - in fact I ave a very serious illness - the service I use could really do with a few of these E5000 payouts to assist those with great medical needs. BTW I am married - have 1 child and work full-time.

FrStone

Mac B wrote: »

People paying privately also get help by claiming back from revenue in annual expenses.

Anyone going through the mental and physical as anguish of ivf deserve all the help they can get, do not under estimate how hard this is and they don't need to be burdened with higher financial problems due to the natural desire to have children

I didn't know that. However it still is only 20% that can be claimed back.

donutheadhomer

sdeire wrote: »

Private clinics are well run, probably much better so than any public hospital. They operate on the principle of value for money (for their owners, as a business).

The HSE, on the other hand, operates on the principal of fairlyand > reality.

I suspect this service is already being offered by the HSE but the waiting period for treatment is not suitable to the “natural desires” of those on medical cards.

Penny Tration

donutheadhomer wrote: »

and at what point do you suggest stopping the treatment? So far this person has had 3 children. Parents do not work and really can’t afford 3 children. Do you think the state should let them have 10 children? In this case they can’t naturally conceive due to self inflicted obesity (not an incurable disease)

I could do with a bit more hair on top too but I can’t get this subsidised.

So because you know one couple taking the P, all others should suffer?

You need thousands of euro at short enough notice to have IVF. jesus, my folks couldn't drum up a few grand at once. Doesn't mean they cannot support their kids.

sdanseo

Stheno wrote: »

The 5,000 is the beginning of it for a lot of couples, it's upfront, that estimated 212,000 is over 20 years or so.

Much easier to absorb costs on a monthly basis than being prohibited from accessing services due to upfront lump sums of cash

It's called a personal loan.

I have no issue with the state perhaps assisting with these costs. But to give them free is a bit much. Why not a tax credit at 41% (that's presuming the parent(s) work).

donutheadhomer

green_screen wrote: »

So because you know one couple taking the P, all others should suffer?

You need thousands of euro at short enough notice to have IVF. jesus, my folks couldn't drum up a few grand at once. Doesn't mean they cannot support their kids.

This is just one example of it and I’m sure there are lots more instances of it.

Mac B

Freddie Dodge wrote: »

Does this "natural desire" include a desire to support them oneself ?

There are tens of thousands of working couples making the decision that they can't afford another child, having only one already. These people are contributors, being taxed to pay for more generations of social welfare parasites.

Don't stigmatise everyone who needs help to have children as being PARASITES, just for a few people who no how to take advantage of our welfare system. if you haven't been though it you can't know how hard it is and the affect it can have on a person a/relationship.

no matter for hard people are financially I've never heard it stop them having children if they want them. it may be as n excuse someone gives!

Gatling

donutheadhomer wrote: »

I was not aware of this until recently but the state actually subsidises the artificial impregnation of women who hold medical cards. Basically these women pay a few hundred Euro to a clinic and the tax payer cough up and E5000 to the private clinics. There was an old thread on boards outlining the figures. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056367409



The woman I’m aware of has never had a job and her fella lost his years ago and now refuses to look for work as is too busy looking after children.

This the Fat Woman you were talking about in another thread ?

Stheno

sdeire wrote: »

Private clinics are well run, probably much better so than any public hospital. They operate on the principle of value for money (for their owners, as a business).

The HSE, on the other hand, operates on the principal of fairlyand > reality.

The HSE do not currently provide IVF services

Medical card holders get one very basic round of IVF and the drugs for that one round covered.

It's not like the Op suggests and has not backed up, that we are subsiding endless IVF on the medical card.

I'd be interested to see a link if they have one, and from a reputable source too

donutheadhomer

sdeire wrote: »

It's called a personal loan.

I have no issue with the state perhaps assisting with these costs. But to give them free is a bit much. Why not a tax credit at 41% (that's presuming the parent(s) work).

could the 5000 not be recouped out of potential earnings of these people or reduce their welfare payments until this debt to society is paid back.

Mac B

Gatling wrote: »

This the Fat Woman you were talking about in another thread ?

Being FAT Or having weight issues can be a symptom of PCOS which carries infertility, not the weight

Penny Tration

Stheno wrote: »

The HSE do not currently provide IVF services

Medical card holders get one very basic round of IVF and the drugs for that one round covered.

It's not like the Op suggests and has not backed up, that we are subsiding endless IVF on the medical card.

I'd be interested to see a link if they have one, and from a reputable source too

Hos neighbours got 3 free kids because they're fat. That's proof enough, surely??

Gatling

donutheadhomer wrote: »

could the 5000 not be recouped out of potential earnings of these people or reduce their welfare payments until this debt to society is paid back.

What is your problem you haven't a clue what your talking about ,

You linked to the trying to conceive forum and proclaiming free ivf babies to anyone with a medical card

donutheadhomer

Mac B wrote: »

Being FAT Or having weight issues can be a symptom of PCOS which carries infertility, not the weight

being fat us usually a symptom of overeating too - this should be addressed before treatment commences

Penny Tration

donutheadhomer wrote: »

could the 5000 not be recouped out of potential earnings of these people or reduce their welfare payments until this debt to society is paid back.

While we're at it, let's recoup money for rent allowance, dole, medical cards, emergency housing and every other benefit paid out by the state, once people get jobs. Sure just garnish it off their wages.

donutheadhomer

green_screen wrote: »

Hos neighbours got 3 free kids because they're fat. That's proof enough, surely??

they told me this themselves recently. I actually minded one of the kids while she was getting one of the treatments for the day.

donutheadhomer

green_screen wrote: »

While we're at it, let's recoup money for rent allowance, dole, medical cards, emergency housing and every other benefit paid out by the state, once people get jobs. Sure just garnish it off their wages.

would be a good idea. We do this already with jobseekers benefit. why stop there?

Stheno

green_screen wrote: »

Hos neighbours got 3 free kids because they're fat. That's proof enough, surely??

The HSE site is fairly clear that it's not a publicly funded service

Rollercoaster.ie has plenty of anecdotal posts that one round is all that's offered for medical card holders, if indeed they get that as opposed to a discount

Penny Tration

donutheadhomer wrote: »

being fat us usually a symptom of overeating too - this should be addressed before treatment commences

For many people, being fat in itself does not cause infertility. A lot of fat, infertile women you see are infertile because of PCOS, not their weight.

Being overweight is a symptom of PCOS, as it slows down your metabolism.

I was fat with PCOS. I'm now kinda average size with PCOS. What difference should it make to whether or not I receive fertility treatment? I'm still unlikely to conceive, even being at a normal weight.

Penny Tration

Stheno wrote: »

The HSE site is fairly clear that it's not a publicly funded service

Rollercoaster.ie has plenty of anecdotal posts that one round is all that's offered for medical card holders, if indeed they get that as opposed to a discount

Sorry Stheno, I was actually taking the p!ss out of his post. I fully agree with you!

I'm not good at this sarcasm thing.

donutheadhomer

Stheno wrote: »

The HSE site is fairly clear that it's not a publicly funded service

Rollercoaster.ie has plenty of anecdotal posts that one round is all that's offered for medical card holders, if indeed they get that as opposed to a discount

roller coaster is full of nonsense. Someone who gets stuff for free of the welfare/hse are hardly likely to broadcast it now are they if they know they were not actually entitled to it...

fullaljackeen

Give people a break. IVF costs will be returned by the beneficiary when it comes to taxation. IVF babies will be paying part of your pension in the future.

Also, €5,000? Try €15,000 or more.

Gatling

Mac B wrote: »

Being FAT Or having weight issues can be a symptom of PCOS which carries infertility, not the weight

Know all about pcos and its symptoms ,

The op was complaining in a separate forum

donutheadhomer

green_screen wrote: »

For many people, being fat in itself does not cause infertility. A lot of fat, infertile women you see are infertile because of PCOS, not their weight.

Being overweight is a symptom of PCOS, as it slows down your metabolism.

I was fat with PCOS. I'm now kinda average size with PCOS. What difference should it make to whether or not I receive fertility treatment? I'm still unlikely to conceive, even being at a normal weight.

the man is also very fat and as far as I know has no ovaries - just a huge beer belly.

They both eat and drink similar quantities. It would be very strange if the woman was a normal healthy weight and then ballooned due to some ovaries disease. They have both always been fat cos they eat buckets of fried chicken and beer.

Bipolar Joe

OP is trollin'.

Stheno

donutheadhomer wrote: »

roller coaster is full of nonsense. Someone who gets stuff for free of the welfare/hse are hardly likely to broadcast it now are they if they know they were not actually entitled to it...

Did you read the HSE link I posted?

It clearly states ivf is not covered it's a choice of those clinics to offer a discount (on basic services) HSE medical cards just cover the drugs cost which is a huge part of the treatment

Penny Tration

donutheadhomer wrote: »

the man is also very fat and as far as I know has no ovaries - just a huge beer belly.

And do you know which of them is infertile? Or are you just pointing out that he's overweight for the hell of it?

Want to stop fat people from having children too?

donutheadhomer

Stheno wrote: »

Did you read the HSE link I posted?

It clearly states ivf is not covered it's a choice of those clinics to offer a discount (on basic services) HSE medical cards just cover the drugs cost which is a huge part of the treatment

From the horses mouth this is not how it has happened

donutheadhomer

green_screen wrote: »

And do you know which of them is infertile? Or are you just pointing out that he's overweight for the hell of it?

Want to stop fat people from having children too?

it is the man who is infertile

Gatling

donutheadhomer wrote: »

From the horses mouth this is not how it has happened

Go back to sleep it was all a dream

Stheno

Gatling wrote: »

Go back to sleep it was all a dream

Nah not a dream for donuthead, it was a nightmare, his taxes going to fund the fat man getting fatter on beer and bread, then going to snore on the bed while the state pay to impregnate his partner :rolleyes:

donutheadhomer

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

OP is trollin'.

This is best death with in this thread as it was off topic