Heineken Cup Final 2014: Toulon vs Saracens, Sat 24 May 5pm; Sky Sports

thomond2006

In one corner: Toulon with Sir Jonny, Juan Martin Fernandez Ligind, Bakkies the Butcher, Dirty Delon, Nice Guy Steffon and Mad Mourad.

In the other corner: Saracens with the Swan Diver, crybaby Farrell, Stand Up for the Saracens song, The Wolfpack, Brendan "Three Cheers" Venter and Nigel "Disposable Income" Wray.

TOULONNAIS ALLEZ ALLEZ ALLEZ

awec

Hope Toulon absolute wipe the floor with them.

Buer

Can they both lose?

Come on Sarries!

I hope they batter Toulon but I don't see it happening. Toulon were their usual dislikeable selves the other night against Racing, goading them and being generally obnoxious.

I want Ashton to run through Habana in the 80th minute for the match winner.

awec

Buer wrote: »

I want Ashton to run through Habana in the 80th minute for the match winner.

Wash your mouth out!

thomond2006

Saracens

Habana is turning into a right diva isn't he? I didn't like the sarcastic waving.

Buer

Can they both lose?

awec wrote: »

Wash your mouth out!

awec

Someone pass me the sick bucket. :pac:

Buer

Can they both lose?

thomond2006 wrote: »

Habana is turning into a right diva isn't he? I didn't like the sarcastic waving.

I don't understand it. These guys seem decent enough blokes but go to Toulon and it appears they just turn into pillocks who go out of their way to be obnoxious individuals who try to goad and irritate others.

They're thoroughly dislikeable as a group of people aside from a few of them.

Saracens might be hard to like as a club but, as a group of players, I've a lot of time for them. They're really a team that are greater than the sum of their parts and have developed year after year, going the hard way, promoting their coach from within. They've signed foreign player but not superstars. Botha was taken from the Championship. Burger is an international for the superstars of Namibia. Chris Wyles is a US Eagle.

They've been a home to guys who other teams thought weren't any use to them any longer or had fallen out of favour and they've reinvented them. Matt Stevens, Steve Borthwick, Schalk Brits, de Kock etc.

I quite like them, to be honest, aside from the behaviour of Wray and BV.

Tox56

Could be the first H Cup final for a long time I wont bother watching, too many people to dislike on either side. Would be nice to see Wilkinson go out on top though

CatFromHue

Habana has always had a bit of an "egde" I thought.

corny

Brutally physical game in store. If the Sarries defence does its thing i think they'll win.

Really couldn't care less who's likeable and who isn't. Its a game of rugby.

Teferi

Never in the history of this competition have I been so ambivalent about who wins the final.

pickarooney

It might be about time an English side won it but apart from that I'm not worried who wins.

Davei141

Buer wrote: »

I don't understand it. These guys seem decent enough blokes but go to Toulon and it appears they just turn into pillocks who go out of their way to be obnoxious individuals who try to goad and irritate others.

They're thoroughly dislikeable as a group of people aside from a few of them.

Saracens might be hard to like as a club but, as a group of players, I've a lot of time for them. They're really a team that are greater than the sum of their parts and have developed year after year, going the hard way, promoting their coach from within. They've signed foreign player but not superstars. Botha was taken from the Championship. Burger is an international for the superstars of Namibia. Chris Wyles is a US Eagle.

They've been a home to guys who other teams thought weren't any use to them any longer or had fallen out of favour and they've reinvented them. Matt Stevens, Steve Borthwick, Schalk Brits, de Kock etc.

I quite like them, to be honest, aside from the behaviour of Wray and BV.

I feel exactly the same way, very entertaining to watch too. They remind me of the England team, not in the style of play but how well coached they are and how they play to their strengths so well.

Dave_The_Sheep

pickarooney wrote: »

It might be about time an English side won it but apart from that I'm not worried who wins.

After the bull**** with the HC next year, I could happily not see an English side win it for the next 20 years. F*ck 'em. Saracens, particularly.

irishbucsfan

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

After the bull**** with the HC next year, I could happily not see an English side win it for the next 20 years. F*ck 'em. Saracens, particularly.

A good excuse to lash out at the English alright. Regardless of the fact the French were with them every step of the way, who would bother caring about that!

OldRio

ibf supporting the english.


Yawnnnnn

How fecking boring is that. It is becoming tiresome.

My God lad you must be making some cash over there.

awec

Citizens!

Relax.

molloyjh

The best way to sum up my feelings on this one is to say I'd rather see them both win 1 than see either win a back-to-back. The back-to-back has only been done twice and I have no interest in seeing a side buy their way to it. It cheapens the achievement. So the lesser of two evils is a Sarries win. I probably won't watch it though.

ulster_Beef

Looking like its going to break the attendance record

.ak

Saracens

I'll be routing for Toulon. No shame for being knocked out by the Champions. I also prefer the brand of rugby they're playing this season in the HEC.

mfceiling

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10839273/Chris-Ashton-faces-possible-Heineken-Cup-final-ban-as-RFU-investigates-incident-with-Nick-Evans.html

And in other news....the pope is catholic, night follows day and life goes on.

Buer

Can they both lose?

If that's true, Ashton has gone down in my estimation. I've seen a number of players do it previously though and never investigated before. Contepomi was openly heckled by opposition players in the past when lining up kicks.

Buer

Can they both lose?

On a side note, had to smile when I read the comments from O'Shea: "“Humility is up on the walls here and around the stadium, and honesty."

Really, Conor? Honesty?!

thomond2006

Saracens

Buer wrote: »

If that's true, Ashton has gone down in my estimation. I've seen a number of players do it previously though and never investigated before. Contepomi was openly heckled by opposition players in the past when lining up kicks.

Didn't Trimble get penalised for shouting at a Scarlets player making a clearance kick (during open play) ?

Buer

Can they both lose?

thomond2006 wrote: »

Didn't Trimble get penalised for shouting at a Scarlets player making a clearance kick (during open play) ?

I can't recall, to be honest. I'm pretty sure I've seen players warned in the past.

The idea that you'd be banned for it though is a tad daft. Does it equate to a red card? He didn't say anything offensive, just being a bit of a knob.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

The idea that you'd be banned for it though is a tad daft. Does it equate to a red card? He didn't say anything offensive, just being a bit of a knob.

Well it's not a citing so I guess the regular rules don't apply.

Would seem a tad bloody silly for him to face any serious repercussions though. A talking to from Lancaster would be more than enough.

daffyspud

Saracens

well i for one think it could be an epic final, the hits are going to be massive, i'm already shuddering at the thought of them, 2 very dislikeable teams but by far the best 2 teams around this year. reckon it will all come down to discipline and not sure if numb nuts farrell can behave himself in this environment. i say bring it on, pumped!!!

.ak

Saracens

A reminder that you cannot buy/sell tickets on these forums.

ulster_Beef

.ak wrote: »

A reminder that you cannot buy/sell tickets on these forums.

I dont think finding tickets will be an issue. Only about 1/3 full with some on eBay not even selling ha.

Why did I buy tickets etc for the worst final in history Hindsight

Zzippy

This has been a year of dilemmas. Who did I least want to win the soccerball - city or liverpool? Do I cry or not after losing to NZ? Now, who do I least want to win the last HEC? Wray vs Mourad, Delon vs Ashton... then I think, Wilko vs Farrell, and the choice is easy!

One of few worthy winners in the available match day squads.

Allez Johnny, Allez

.ak

Saracens

Also there's Steffon Armitage. I think he's been player of the season, but I think he'll only get the award if Toulon win.

OldRio

.ak wrote: »

A reminder that you cannot buy/sell tickets on these forums.

Sarky b@""@*d

.ak

Saracens

OldRio wrote: »

Sarky b@""@*d

Hah, I actually had to delete a post, believe it or not.

OldRio

.ak wrote: »

Hah, I actually had to delete a post, believe it or not.

I'm genuinely shocked.:eek:

molloyjh

My uncle was telling us on Saturday that he went onto eBay to try and sell his. There were so many up there he decided it wasn't worth it as there was no way he was going to shift them. It'll be interesting to see what the actual attendance is like. There'll obviously be a lot of people who go to all of the finals plus a few locals, but there won't be travelling support anywhere near the same degree as in previous years.

Podge_irl

HEC final is always a good laugh. I'd go if I was anywhere near Cardiff (necessary addendum - my years of going consistently coincided with Leinster always being there :P So Toulon-Clermont was my only neutral final).

If it's actually in Milan next year I'll definitely be going regardless of the teams.

irishbucsfan

The best craic at finals are the regulars. But it will still be a dire atmosphere in a half full stadium. A bit of a shame for the "last" of the H Cup finals I suppose.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The best craic at finals are the regulars. But it will still be a dire atmosphere in a half full stadium. A bit of a shame for the "last" of the H Cup finals I suppose.

Wonder if Wray will use it as evidence that the HEC was broken :pac:

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wonder if Wray will use it as evidence that the HEC was broken :pac:

I'm sure it'll be a case of "They were all at home watching it on the all important tele-box, especially the Irish. Sure they've no disposable income"!?

thomond2006

Saracens

Good to see the number of Fernandez Ligind fans on here. 24-5-24 on the poll so far.

TransportCons

Ridiculous that it won't be a sell out. If it's even half full I'd be surprised, considering the number of tickets bought by Irish people, who now cannot get rid of them.

To be honest, I'd prefer to see Toulon lose.... they are becoming the Chelsea/Man City of Rugby!

Podge_irl

TransportCons wrote: »

Ridiculous that it won't be a sell out. If it's even half full I'd be surprised, considering the number of tickets bought by Irish people, who now cannot get rid of them.!

I don't entirely get that to be honest. Surely people would have fights/hotels booked as well? Otherwise they would be getting ludicrously expensive (or, as it's in Cardiff, impossible to get). So just go anyway...

Buer

Can they both lose?

TransportCons wrote: »

Ridiculous that it won't be a sell out. If it's even half full I'd be surprised, considering the number of tickets bought by Irish people, who now cannot get rid of them.

There are tickets freely available for most of the HEC finals in the past the week beforehand and around the ground. Some of the games that you'd expect were completely full had empty seats.

Leinster vs Northampton in 2011 wasn't completely full. There were several thousand empty seats for Munster vs Northampton. The 2003 and 2005 finals contested between French sides had vast empty areas in the ground.

TransportCons

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't entirely get that to be honest. Surely people would have fights/hotels booked as well? Otherwise they would be getting ludicrously expensive (or, as it's in Cardiff, impossible to get). So just go anyway...

From what I understand, loads of people booked the tickets at the quarter final stage when there were still three Irish teams left, and would wait until the finalists were known to book transport to Cardiff. Cheapest way to get there I reckon is the sail/rail but why go ahead and spend even more money on that if there's no real interest in the two teams that made the final.

.ak

Saracens

Buer wrote: »

There are tickets freely available for most of the HEC finals in the past the week beforehand and around the ground. Some of the games that you'd expect were completely full had empty seats.

Leinster vs Northampton in 2011 wasn't completely full. There were several thousand empty seats for Munster vs Northampton. The 2003 and 2005 finals contested between French sides had vast empty areas in the ground.

It was tough enough to get tickets for that though. I couldn't spot many empty seats and you'd imagine any empty ones were no shows from people who bought tickets and their team didn't make it.

As far as I remember the tickets on the door on the day sold out very early on.

The year after it proved fairly difficult to get tickets also. I'm fairly sure that was a full house.

Christy42

Saracens

Buer wrote: »

I want Ashton to run through Habana in the 80th minute for the match winner.

but for Ashton to drop it doing that horrible swan dive. That would be beautiful if his cockiness cost them the trophy. Seriously though Toulon just seem like a far better side 1-15.

Grimebox

Would like Toulon to win simply for Wilkinson to retire on a high. It's really hard to root for either of them otherwise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UthMHjoNyjA

thomond2006

Saracens

Toulon:

15. Delon Armitage; 14. Drew Mitchell, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Matt Giteau, 11. Bryan Habana; 10. Jonny Wilkinson (c), 9. Sebastien Tillous-Borde;
1. Xavier Chiocci, 2. Craig Burden, 3. Carl Hayman, 4. Bakkies Botha, 5. Danie Rossouw, 6. Juan Smith, 7. Juan Fernandez Ligind, 8. Steffon Armitage

16. Jean-Charles Orioli, 17. Alexandre Menini, 18. Martin Castrogiovanni, 19. Ali Williams, 20. Virgile Bruni, 21. Maxime Mermoz, 22. Michael Claassens, 23. Jocelino Suta

Two locks on the bench for Toulon in a 6-2 split: Ali Williams and Jocelino Suta. Once again Michalak can't get into the 23. Danie Rossouw is a bit of a surprise pick to start but I presume it's down to wanting bulk in the second row.

Saracens:

15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Marcelo Bosch, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. David Strettle; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth;
1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. Matt Stevens, 4. Steve Borthwick (c), 5. Alistair Hargreaves, 6. Kelly Brown, 7. Jacques Burger, 8. Billy Vunipola

16. Jamie George, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. James Johnston, 19. Mouritz Botha, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Charlie Hodgson, 23. Chris Wyles

Big scrum battle in store for Mako Vunipola against Hayman with Bakkies and Rossouw pushing!

awec

Hayman will put Vunipola into reverse gear.