Do you need to go full healthy on a bulk?

Blacktie.

If I'm going on a bulk and I'm aiming for 3500 calories, is it necessary to keep the vast majority of my calories clean (nutritionally dense) or does it really matter up to a point. If I keep 2,500 calories clean and then fill the rest of my macros with whatever I feel like grabbing will this effect optimal recovery or should the vitamins, minerals etc. gained from the 2,500 be enough and I can fill the rest of my macros with whatever (not totally IIFYM cult mentality since majority will still be clean eating)? I realise on a cut nutrition has to be much better because you're already not being optimal with recovery due to less calories but does the opposite apply for a bulk?

top madra

3500 calories will be 3500 calories regardless..

It's when you breakdown your ratio of protein/carbs/fats when you could run into problems if your filling in the gaps with ****e..

Chancer3001

3500 calories of carbs isn't going to help you much or example.

Blacktie.

top madra wrote: »

3500 calories will be 3500 calories regardless..

It's when you breakdown your ratio of protein/carbs/fats when you could run into problems if your filling in the gaps with ****e..

Yeah I understand macros but I'm talking about micros. If you're eating a variety of vegetables, fruit and, meat and nuts for you're first 2,500 then does it matter what your last 1,000 calories are or will you have reached more or less optimal levels with the 2,500 calories of nutritional food. So you could fill the last 1,000 with whatevers handy like sandwiches etc once it fits your macros or would this affect recovery somewhat and therefore you haven't hit toward the top end of your limit with the 2,500 calories of nutritionally dense food.

top madra

Blacktie. wrote: »

Yeah I understand macros but I'm talking about micros. If you're eating a variety of vegetables, fruit and, meat and nuts for you're first 2,500 then does it matter what your last 1,000 calories are or will you have reached more or less optimal levels with the 2,500 calories of nutritional food. So you could fill the last 1,000 with whatevers handy like sandwiches etc once it fits your macros or would this affect recovery somewhat and therefore you haven't hit toward the top end of your limit with the 2,500 calories of nutritionally dense food.

Once it fits your Macros' you can eat whatever you want, and it won't effect you recovery one bit..

If after 2500 you have allowed for 1000 cals of carbs and fats fill it with biscuits if you like...

I personally wouldn't get too anal about it.

Blacktie.

top madra wrote: »

Once it fits your Macros' you can eat whatever you want, and it won't effect you recovery one bit..

If after 2500 you have allowed for 1000 cals of carbs and fats fill it with biscuits if you like...

I personally wouldn't get too anal about it.

Do you mean after I've hit my micros here or in general?

Sangre

If you will strict counting calories on your bulk, work away. However, if you think you'll be looser keep to nutrient dense to avoid running away with yourself.

Blacktie.

Sangre wrote: »

If you will strict counting calories on your bulk, work away. However, if you think you'll be looser keep to nutrient dense to avoid running away with yourself.

I'm usually pretty strict but wouldn't track micros at all. I just figure if I eat a varied diet with a lot of veg and fruit they'll take care of themselves.

This is all a long way off at the moment just thinking how I'm going to do it this time round as time will be much more limited so won't be able to prepare nearly as much as I could before and even then it was tough enough.

siochain

3500 cals are not equal

Do you want to fuel for performance, recovery and feeling good?

Question was should the cals be clean? If you can why would they be any other way?

Sorry but I see so many guys go on bulks and remain fat forever. I'm sure your much more disciplined than that.

Blacktie.

siochain wrote: »

Do you want to fuel for performance, recovery and feeling good?

Yes but is 3,500 calories of all nutrient dense food required or can you get all the required nutrients from a 2,500 calories and then it's just the energy surplus that matters.

Question was should the cals be clean? If you can why would they be any other way?

Have you done 3,500 calories clean before? It's very time consuming. Which I am seriously limited on for the next year. That's why instead of preparing something like a stir fry to fill a few hundred calories I could have a sandwich which I could prepare in work.

I'm sure your much more disciplined than that.

... is this in sarcasm...?

conzy

You can absolutely be more flexible during the bulk. I still counted calories as I wouldn't have eaten nearly enough if I didn't. And I still ate a very clean diet 90% of the time but there were often days where I'd drink litre of milk and a snickers bar etc to get my last 1000 cals in. Hit your protein every day. I was eating 250g +

Blacktie.

conzy wrote: »

You can absolutely be more flexible during the bulk. I still counted calories as I wouldn't have eaten nearly enough if I didn't. And I still ate a very clean diet 90% of the time but there were often days where I'd drink litre of milk and a snickers bar etc to get my last 1000 cals in. Hit your protein every day. I was eating 250g +

Yeah agreed. My last time I finally done it right and was making good gains. But I was trying to do it all clean and even hitting 3,200 calories clean is tough. There was a good few occasions where I'd drink some heavy cream to top up the calories. Originally used milk to do this but then I saw how much sugar I was getting in so replaced it with cream. During that bulk I think I averaged 340g of protein or something like that.

top madra

Blacktie. wrote: »

Have you done 3,500 calories clean before? It's very time consuming. Which I am seriously limited on for the next year. That's why instead of preparing something like a stir fry to fill a few hundred calories I could have a sandwich which I could prepare in work.

.?

You're over thinking this, just eat the sandwich dude if you have allowed for it, 500 cals of a stir fry vs 500 cals of a sambo isn't gonna matter once it fits with your carb/pro/fat ratio..

A rough estimate of this chit will do, don't get too anal about it. People scream 'oh you gotta eat clean all the time' imo this is proper bull-chit, something sweet or even a sandwich is not gonna affect training or recovery one bit..

Everything in moderation, eating too much chit is not going to be good for you, eating healthy with a few 'nicer things' is perfectly fine.

And earlier I meant in general, this training isn't rocket science and people over think it so much..

Eat more when you want to gain weight and less when you want to lose weight, keep your protein intake as high or more than is recommended for you and lift chit up and put it down and you'll see gains..

It really is that simple.

On a side note, if I make a stir-fry i usually make enough to get a lunch out of it too, making a lunch and dinner at the same time, saves time and money for me.

Sorry if I have totally rambled.....

Sangre

To be clear, I meant total calories and macros only. If you're strict with those I wouldn't worry about final 1000 calories. It is quite easy to lose control of your eating if you're coming off a strict diet, particular when your lifts are going up and up.

Blacktie.

top madra wrote: »

You're over thinking this, just eat the sandwich dude if you have allowed for it, 500 cals of a stir fry vs 500 cals of a sambo isn't gonna matter once it fits with your carb/pro/fat ratio..

A rough estimate of this chit will do, don't get too anal about it. People scream 'oh you gotta eat clean all the time' imo this is proper bull-chit, something sweet or even a sandwich is not gonna affect training or recovery one bit..

Everything in moderation, eating too much chit is not going to be good for you, eating healthy with a few 'nicer things' is perfectly fine.

And earlier I meant in general, this training isn't rocket science and people over think it so much..

Eat more when you want to gain weight and less when you want to lose weight, keep your protein intake as high or more than is recommended for you and lift chit up and put it down and you'll see gains..

It really is that simple.

On a side note, if I make a stir-fry i usually make enough to get a lunch out of it too, making a lunch and dinner at the same time, saves time and money for me.

Sorry if I have totally rambled.....

Yeah agreed was just getting the general consensus I guess. I don't agree with the whole IIFYM mentality of eat whatever you want once it fits your macros but I guess once enough of my calories are nutrient dense the last few hundred calories don't matter.

The problem with the everything in moderation point is everyones moderation is different.

Yeah people over think it but I'm getting to a point where I'm beyond the very basics of fix your macros and fix your diet stuff.

Yeah I always make dinner and lunch together. I have to. But on the bulk I'd have to be cooking about 6 meals all at once in about an hour... Not very feasible. Especially everyday and on top of training.

To be clear, I meant total calories and macros only. If you're strict with those I wouldn't worry about final 1000 calories. It is quite easy to lose control of your eating if you're coming off a strict diet, particular when your lifts are going up and up.

The 1000 calories was just pulled out of the air to illustrate if you got a normal persons calories in nutrient dense foods does the excess matter.

siochain

na no sarcasm meant, I just see this going wrong most of the time. Guy's eating crap and downing the weight gainers and never loosing the weight after.

I'm averaging about 3,200 cals all the time but my fat intake is high so I don't have much issue hitting the numbers.

As someone else said keep the majority of it clean is you will feel better for it.

jive

Just eat clean as much as possible. If you eat 1000 calories of shít everyday just to reach the amount of calories you want then you'll feel like shít. No reason why you can't eat 3500 calories of decent food. Plenty of foods which are good for you are calorie dense, eat them. Where you get those extra 1000 calories doesn't become irrelevant just because you've hit your macros.

Blacktie.

jive wrote: »

Just eat clean as much as possible. If you eat 1000 calories of shít everyday just to reach the amount of calories you want then you'll feel like shít. No reason why you can't eat 3500 calories of decent food. Plenty of foods which are good for you are calorie dense, eat them. Where you get those extra 1000 calories doesn't become irrelevant just because you've hit your macros.

I'm not asking about macros though I'm asking about micros. What's the point in eating clean if you've hit your micro needs. If you get to the upper limit of the day then it;s just going to waste. Anyway when I do go on a bulk it's not going to be possible to do it completely clean. Majority will be but I have some serious time restrictions.