'Titles'

Kiwi in IE

This is a follow on from the 'Calling Female Teachers Sir' thread.

Does anyone else find 'Titles' (Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss, Master, Dr etc) archaic altogether? Personally I think they should be done away with. First names are there for a reason and should be used!

It makes me want to laugh when my son is addressed as 'Master'. That one seems particularly ridiculous and outdated.

If they must be retained I think they should be culled to simply Mr and Ms, regardless of age of marital status.

I cannot think of a single circumstance when I would refer to someone as Mr, Mrs, Ms, Master, Miss, and I call Dr's by their first name.

What is the AH opinion on this?

Grayson

Yes sir.

stefan idiot jones

I often get addressed as 'Hey, Fatty'.

Drakares

If you had worked 8-10 years for your PhD, you'd probably feel a little different on the subject.

fearrua

On my application to study in Edinburgh some of the options for my title were Lord, Lieutenant and Colonel. I really had to resist the temptation...

Drakares

Drakares wrote: »

If you had worked 8-10 years for your PhD, you'd probably feel a little different on the subject.

Why? What relevance is it if you are chatting to them in the pub or selling them paint or whatever.

ballsymchugh

they're archaic if they are titles that come from feudal times. otherwise they're titles to show some respect to strangers or professionals.
if you're in a pub or somewhere else, then there's little reason to call someone Dr.
call a judge by his/her first name if you ever meet them in a professional setting and see how you get on.

danniemcq

I think its more about respect than anything else. If you have a local doc that you know for years i can see why you might use first name but not a hope i'd refer to a new doc by their name even if i know it.

Would you call a judge preciding over a case by their first name?

Kiwi in IE

Drakares wrote: »

If you had worked 8-10 years for your PhD, you'd probably feel a little different on the subject.

Lots of people work 8 - 10 years on lots of things. I don't see why because you have chosen (or been privileged enough) to pursue that particular course of life, that public accolades should be eternally expected.

Why is a person with a PhD more deserving of a 'special title' than a person who donates 8 to 10 years or more working for charity, purely for the benefit of other people, animals or another worthy cause.

Outdated elitism I say!

MRnotlob606

In Scandinavian countries many people don't use titles

D1stant

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? What relevance is it if you are chatting to them in the pub or selling them paint or whatever.

What a disrespectful comment. You wont find many PhDs selling paint. Its common knowledge that most of them work the buffet trolley on Iarnrod Eireann

Un Croissant

My post is addressed to Level 18 Frost Mage Un Croissant. Catchy, and I insist on people using my full title.

delos

Drakares wrote: »

If you had worked 8-10 years for your PhD, you'd probably feel a little different on the subject.

Within an Ireland / UK context, in any environment where the fact that I have a PhD is in any way relevant if I was to refer to myself as Dr... or, even worse, insist that others referred to me as Dr... I would be considered a ar$hole of the highest order.

Kiwi in IE

danniemcq wrote: »

I think its more about respect than anything else. If you have a local doc that you know for years i can see why you might use first name but not a hope i'd refer to a new doc by their name even if i know it.

Would you call a judge preciding over a case by their first name?

I really don't think that a person's profession makes them worthy of being shown more respect than other people. I think that view of the world is outdated.

Why is a Doctor or Lawyer, who had his fees and living expenses while in college paid for by his family, worthy of any more respect than the child of a drug addict who has risen above that life to become a retail salesperson or a taxi driver? Or a member of the police force who puts their life on the line to come to the assistance of said Doctor or Lawyer when they are in trouble?

It is bollocks I say!

Birneybau

For once maybe someone will call me sir without adding you're making a scene.

cloud493

I paid good money to be referred to as 'The Right honourable Sir Cloud493' and you will call me it damn you.

Akrasia

Anyone who insists on having the title 'lord' or 'sir' used before their name is by definition, a twat

Also, people who string their qualifications behind their name in all correspondence are also twats

Yours faithfully, Dr Akrasia, BAhon, MAcd, Phd

Kiwi in IE

But I think that Mrs is equally stupid. Men become Mr once they reach the age of majority whether married or not. Why do only women have a special title to indicate that they have had the magic marriage spell cast upon them?

And Master just sounds completely absurd and ridiculous in any context.

ryan101

Keep them, the first name pally shyte is not always appropriate in every situation.
I don't like calling people I don't know well by their first name.

893bet

Recently earned my "Dr." but have yet to make much use of the title.

Who do you gotta **** for a name change around here?

jimgoose

Did anyone else mis-read the thread title and end up bitterly disappointed??

Kiwi in IE

ryan101 wrote: »

Keep them, the first name pally shyte is not always appropriate in every situation.
I don't like calling people I don't know well by their first name.

Why? When you meet a new acquaintance, potential friend/date would you refer to them as Mr/Miss/Ms etc? To me that is absurd. If you move in somewhere are meet the new neighbours would you refer to them in the same way? I would fall about laughing of a colleague/neighbour/teacher or other parent at the school referred to me as Mrs Kiwi in IE. It seems absurd, outdated and ridiculous.

Muise...

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

But I think that Mrs is equally stupid. Men become Mr once they reach the age of majority whether married or not. Why do only women have a special title to indicate that they have had the magic marriage spell cast upon them?

And Master just sounds completely absurd and ridiculous in any context.

What's it like in Kiwi-land? Is there a colonial influence on titles?

I like that "Sir/Madam/Master/Miss" aren't used much in Ireland. "Dr" is fair enough as someone has to work hard to earn that one, but it's becoming first names after first meeting pretty much everywhere now.

That said, I did register to a web service in the UK as "Lady" for the laugh, and a friend of mine had a good giggle and is now addressed as "Monk" in emails from a Thai airline.

SouthTippBass

You will address me by my proper title, you little bollix.

Bacchus

I'm not a big fan of using Dr. except when relevant. On my work email I just have "Bacchus, PhD". Most people never notice, one of the guy only noticed it after 2 years and thought I was crazy not to be using "Dr. Bacchus" instead.

duchalla

There used to be a priest at home, sound skin, He was young (30's), first time I had any dealings with him was at my nephews christening. For the life of me, I couldnt bring myself to call him Father, so I just called him by his christian name. He was grand with that. Spose the fact that I was few years older then him had something to do with it.
The first time my own father heard me call the priest by his christian name, he threw me a kind of a disapproving look, he coudnt bring himself to call him anything other than Father. I thought it was gas, as my own dad would be 40 years older than the priest! I spose its a generational thing, my parents would still call the doctor doctor.

ryan101

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why? When you meet a new acquaintance, potential friend/date would you refer to them as Mr/Miss/Ms etc? To me that is absurd. If you move in somewhere are meet the new neighbours would you refer to them in the same way? I would fall about laughing of a colleague/neighbour/teacher or other parent at the school referred to me as Mrs Kiwi in IE. It seems absurd, outdated and ridiculous.

It depends on the situation, in business I don't start referring to customers I've just met as if they are my new first name personal pal. Also the best and most professional teacher I ever had addressed all his students as Mr Surname or Miss Surname, thus keeping a friendly distance. He didn't mind what we called him in return as long as there was mutual respect.

danniemcq

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I really don't think that a person's profession makes them worthy of being shown more respect than other people. I think that view of the world is outdated.

Why is a Doctor or Lawyer, who had his fees and living expenses while in college paid for by his family, worthy of any more respect than the child of a drug addict who has risen above that life to become a retail salesperson or a taxi driver? Or a member of the police force who puts their life on the line to come to the assistance of said Doctor or Lawyer when they are in trouble?

It is bollocks I say!

So would you call a guard by their first name or use sir/mam/guard if they picked you up?

And the path to the job they are at is often varied, my Granda was a builder with 13 kids there was no free ride through college for the kids yet there are 3 or 4 doctors and a lawyer in that family. Heck there is even 2 teachers.

Its a hard call i guess and down to personal opinions but I like to treat people with respect and if that involves me saying their title then fair enough, but just because someone came from a broken home with a drug addicted parent or whatever to work in x y or z i'm not gonna judge them i'm gonna say excuse me sir and be nice and polite

Birneybau

SouthTippBass wrote: »

You will address me by my proper title, you little bollix.

Yes Len.

GLaDOS

Drakares wrote: »

If you had worked 8-10 years for your PhD, you'd probably feel a little different on the subject.

To be fair, outside of an academic setting where it's relevant (Conferences for example) people with a Phd tend not to use the Dr. title.

Friend Computer

This rising trend of reverse snobbery is getting really tedious.

Kiwi in IE

Muise... wrote: »

What's it like in Kiwi-land? Is there a colonial influence on titles?

I like that "Sir/Madam/Master/Miss" aren't used much in Ireland. "Dr" is fair enough as someone has to work hard to earn that one, but it's becoming first names after first meeting pretty much everywhere now.

That said, I did register to a web service in the UK as "Lady" for the laugh, and a friend of mine had a good giggle and is now addressed as "Monk" in emails from a Thai airline.

I can't really remember exactly how it is at home. I don't ever recall my son being referred to as 'Master' until coming here. Any mail, prescription etc would just be 'Little Kiwi', where as here it is always 'Master Little Kiwi' which makes me want to laugh. Dr's will generally introduce themselves by their first and last name only on first professional interaction. Occasionally you may get a prat who says 'I am Dr (Surname)' but very rarely. Mr, Mrs and Ms is still common enough in the postal system but not so much Miss. And these titles would never be used in day to day interactions, with the exception of some schools, but even then in many schools teachers first names would be used.

Un Croissant

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

But I think that Mrs is equally stupid. Men become Mr once they reach the age of majority whether married or not. Why do only women have a special title to indicate that they have had the magic marriage spell cast upon them?

And Master just sounds completely absurd and ridiculous in any context.

Because the magic marriage spell is a level 37 spell. Very hard to cast so those women have worked hard for that title.


Maybe?

Kiwi in IE

danniemcq wrote: »

So would you call a guard by their first name or use sir/mam/guard if they picked you up?

It is highly unlikely that I would be in a position to be picked up by Gards, butoff I was speaking to a Gard and needed to refer to them personally I would ask their name or read it off their badge and use it. I am a nurse and would not want to be called 'Nurse Kiwi in IE', it is horrendous and outdated. I actually find it almost offensive if I am referred to as 'Nurse'. I can't stand it. I am a person not a profession.

In rational, logical reality calling a Gard "Garda Smith" is no different from going into a supermarket and saying "Good morning Checkout Operator Jones". It is unnecessary and silly.

Davarus Walrus

If I go for food in a decent restaurant then I expect to be greeted as Sir by the front of house. Not some throwaway 'howya mate'.

pickarooney

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

I often get addressed as 'Hey, Fatty'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AIXUgtNC4Kc#t=112

Muise...

I got called "Madam" by a snappy woman at a ticket desk in London. Felt like saying "Alright bitch!" till I realised she wasn't being sarcastic and that's just how they do things there.

calanus

ScienceNerd wrote: »

To be fair, outside of an academic setting where it's relevant (Conferences for example) people with a Phd tend not to use the Dr. title.

For most its a novelty that wears off pretty soon. I think I got a credit card a few months after getting my PhD and changing the title on that to Dr.
Beyond that I think it has never. been used except in an email where it does feel a bit weird.

99% of all academics don't use or want to use the Dr title anyway. Anyone who does is a cnut

whisky_galore

I only get called 'Sir' by guards and fellas looking for 'any oul scrap iron'.

Kiwi in IE

I should have left 'Dr' off the OP, because I was referring more to the masculine/femine/marital status titles. I think that Mrs, Miss and Master are completely outdated. If some sort of titles must be retained for those who think it is too 'pally' to use peoples first names (for whatever bizarre reason), then they should be culled to straight Ms and Mr, regardless of age and marital status!

Ficheall

calanus wrote: »

For most its a novelty that wears off pretty soon. I think I got a credit card a few months after getting my PhD and changing the title on that to Dr.
Beyond that I think it has never. been used except in an email where it does feel a bit weird.

99% of all academics don't use or want to use the Dr title anyway. Anyone who does is a cnut

I hate when my "Dr" title is used anywhere, unless it is in a formal academic email or such.
Friend of a friend story - recent phd had changed her passport to "Dr." and was called upon for a medical emergency aboard a flight. Needless to say, she could be of no help whatsoever.

Sometimes the "Dr" title might lend more weight to an opinion.
Just my €2.


-Dr. Ficheall

castletownman

In my house we go by Westerosi naming culture.

Which is why I am known as Ser Castletownman of House Wexford,First of my Name.

Kiwi in IE

Ficheall wrote: »

I hate when my "Dr" title is used anywhere, unless it is in a formal academic email or such.
Friend of a friend story - recent phd had changed her passport to "Dr." and was called upon for a medical emergency aboard a flight. Needless to say, she could be of no help whatsoever.

Sometimes the "Dr" title might lend more weight to an opinion.
Just my €2.


-Dr. Ficheall

Hahaha! You must be careful when flying. When asked for profession on boarding cards, I am always very careful to put PSYCHIATRIC Nurse.

_Redzer_

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Lots of people work 8 - 10 years on lots of things. I don't see why because you have chosen (or been privileged enough) to pursue that particular course of life, that public accolades should be eternally expected.

Why is a person with a PhD more deserving of a 'special title' than a person who donates 8 to 10 years or more working for charity, purely for the benefit of other people, animals or another worthy cause.

Outdated elitism I say!

You receive a PhD after years and years of study and contribution to your field, and are awarded the title once you are deemed an expert in said field.

PhDs contribute hugely to the development of their area and drive it forward. A PhD in science is doing an awful lot for humanity through research, teaching and pushing our understanding forward, for example.

It's a monumental amount of work to get your PhD and it's not exactly a privilege if you have to work your ass off to earn one. You can't buy a PhD.
So I think they've earned their title.

Also, you can have a PhD and still be an avid humanitarian. Positions like that aren't mutually exclusive.

I can see where a title might be desirable for professional detachment - the person arresting you is Garda O'Brien an officer of the state rather than John who you see at the golf club occasionally.

I don't think people realise how relatively egalitarian our society is. We don't have an aristocracy, you aren't expected to address someone by their full academic title every time.

jimgoose

castletownman wrote: »

In my house we go by Westerosi naming culture.

Which is why I am known as Ser Castletownman of House Wexford,First of my Name.

I like it. Reminds me of "I am a warrior of Harima province, Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin, age sixty years." :cool:

William F

Kings Inn is full of people in search of titles. For most people after graduating, there is a guarantee of never pursuing a career as a Barrister yet it doesn't stop people wanting to become one. There is a prestige element attached to the profession for most but titles don't infer competence, only ability.

In the words of William Wallace, ''Men don't follow titles, they follow courage.''

Kiwi in IE

_Redzer_ wrote: »

You receive a PhD after years and years of study and contribution to your field, and are awarded the title once you are deemed an expert in said field.

PhDs contribute hugely to the development of their area and drive it forward. A PhD in science is doing an awful lot for humanity through research, teaching and pushing our understanding forward, for example.

It's a monumental amount of work to get your PhD and it's not exactly a privilege if you have to work your ass off to earn one. You can't buy a PhD.
So I think they've earned their title.

Also, you can have a PhD and still be an avid humanitarian. Positions like that aren't mutually exclusive.

I am not denying any of this. I just don't see titles as necessary. People with PhD's will mostly be very well financially rewarded for their work, and rightly so. I do think it is Elitism to use a special title in day to day life or introduce yourself (outside of professional necessity) as 'Doctor'.

Medical Doctors should encourage first name use with clients I think too. Anyone visiting them for professional reasons is well aware they are a doctor, I am unsure of the need for the doctor to recieve reassurance of that knowledge every time the client refers to them.

Anyway by biggest beef is with Mrs, Master and Miss! Professional titles aside, should gender/marital titles be culled to only Ms and Mr? What is the purpose of differential titles according to marital status/age?

jimgoose

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

...Anyway by biggest beef is with Mrs, Master and Miss! Professional titles aside, should gender/marital titles be culled to only Ms and Mr? What is the purpose of differential titles according to marital status/age?

Except Badger-Baiters. After wenty-five years in the trade they should be addressed as Master Baiter. :cool:

Kiwi in IE

It seems I am outnumbered here and generally, people like titles.

Just don't refer to me as 'Mrs Kiwi in IE' or 'Nurse Kiwi in IE'!

pickarooney

I like when I call places like the bank in Ireland and they address me by my first name. I know they still don't give two ****s about me but it at least sounds friendlier than the whole Madame/Monsieur craic. And be thankful that there's only one word for 'you' to deal with there.