Should Ireland join NATO

comongethappy

Jawgap wrote: »

Who do we need protection from?

Those other NATO members who already surround us?

If fairness, the "who will attack us" point can be said for every nation on earth.

If every potential enemy & conflict was known ahead of time there would be no wars.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

There is almost no tangible benefit to the Irish people for joining NATO outside of those who serve in the defence forces. You also have to remember that those who are now in the defence forces signed up in the context that they would be joining an army that serves as a peace keeping force and not an army actively engaged in war, which is a major consideration that is overlooked.

The argument of whether we are truly neutral or not can be debated I think, but to blanketly state we are absolutely not neutral is incorrect. None of our soldiers are involved in active combat against anyone, we have not declared war on anyone and the soldiers we do have currently on peace missions are not seen as blatantly biased to either side by either side.

What threat from an attack perspective does Ireland face today? Seriously? I can think of three main ones and currently none of them seem realistic to be honest.
1. Dissident Unionists in the North
2. Britain (not really possible now but had the potential to happen in the 1970's)
3. Islamic extremists

Since the Good Friday Agreement 1 and absolutely 2 do not look like happening in any conceivable way.
So that leaves 3 as the only real plausible threat to our country. Will joining NATO increase or decrease the chances of an attack posed here? There's only one logical answer to that.

Any other threat posed to Ireland would be an EU wide problem and we would end up getting involved either way, but considering these threats are to the east, Russia/China/India, and the fact we are as far west as you can get in Europe, we are at the end of the line, and being in or out of NATO in one of these situations will mean absolutely nothing in this context.

Our sovereignty is at a very low risk all things considered. We don't need to mess around with that in anyway in my opinion.

Jawgap

comongethappy wrote: »

If fairness, the "who will attack us" point can be said for every nation on earth.

If every potential enemy & conflict was known ahead of time there would be no wars.

I wouldn't say that was true - plenty of wars / conflicts have been well flagged in advance and still happened.

First, why would anyone attack us? What have we got that anyone would want? Why would anyone want to occupy us? What possible positional advantage do we offer?

Also as regards Islamic extremists - they're into making statements, that means attacking symbols and mounting spectacular attacks - there's no target in Ireland that meets their criteria. The only time we'd be on their radar is when the likes of Obama or Cameron is in town.

The arrow is pointing at us.....

average hero

Jawgap wrote: »

Who do we need protection from?

Those other NATO members who already surround us?

Isn't it great that we don't need protection from anyone?

But that's the whole point though isn't it? We are just sitting here with assets such as our location, airports, ports etc not doing anything. But whether anyone likes it or not, we are benefiting from having NATO members surround us. We just don't know it because we haven't experienced 'not' having them around us.

I mean, we're sitting here all smug and we spout our 'neutrality' because we're so great and we'd never ever do anything to anyone, but we benefit from having two NATO superpowers on our doorstep in the UK and France. Realistically, without having so many bigger countries around us or the EU, we'd have no say in anything!

I just think that our neutrality is a bit of a bad joke. We assist NATO in differing ways, we benefit from NATO countries assistance/friendship etc yet we harp on about our supposed neutrality from our high horse. When the proverbial would hit the fan, we're the first to run cap in hand to NATO countries.

What would happen if there were military jets from a foreign nation such as Russia over Ireland? What happens then?

Join it and be done with it!

Thargor

Sorry but what does Operation Oil refer to specifically?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

average hero wrote: »

Isn't it great that we don't need protection from anyone?

But that's the whole point though isn't it? We are just sitting here with assets such as our location, airports, ports etc not doing anything. But whether anyone likes it or not, we are benefiting from having NATO members surround us. We just don't know it because we haven't experienced 'not' having them around us.

I mean, we're sitting here all smug and we spout our 'neutrality' because we're so great and we'd never ever do anything to anyone, but we benefit from having two NATO superpowers on our doorstep in the UK and France. Realistically, without having so many bigger countries around us or the EU, we'd have no say in anything!

I just think that our neutrality is a bit of a bad joke. We assist NATO in differing ways, we benefit from NATO countries assistance/friendship etc yet we harp on about our supposed neutrality from our high horse. When the proverbial would hit the fan, we're the first to run cap in hand to NATO countries.

What would happen if there were military jets from a foreign nation such as Russia over Ireland? What happens then?

Join it and be done with it!

By being in the EU the UK/France ect. would react regardless of whether we are in NATO or not. Your point is moot.

tac foley

..and moot, too.

tac

riffmongous

average hero wrote: »

Isn't it great that we don't need protection from anyone?

But that's the whole point though isn't it? We are just sitting here with assets such as our location, airports, ports etc not doing anything. But whether anyone likes it or not, we are benefiting from having NATO members surround us. We just don't know it because we haven't experienced 'not' having them around us.

I mean, we're sitting here all smug and we spout our 'neutrality' because we're so great and we'd never ever do anything to anyone, but we benefit from having two NATO superpowers on our doorstep in the UK and France. Realistically, without having so many bigger countries around us or the EU, we'd have no say in anything!

I just think that our neutrality is a bit of a bad joke. We assist NATO in differing ways, we benefit from NATO countries assistance/friendship etc yet we harp on about our supposed neutrality from our high horse. When the proverbial would hit the fan, we're the first to run cap in hand to NATO countries.

What would happen if there were military jets from a foreign nation such as Russia over Ireland? What happens then?

Join it and be done with it!

So why should we pay for it when we already get the advantages for free?

Jawgap

riffmongous wrote: »

So why should we pay for it when we already get the advantages for free?

Do NATO want us to join? I'm not sure either we or them want us as a member of the cool kids gang.

riffmongous

Jawgap wrote: »

Do NATO want us to join? I'm not sure either we or them want us as a member of the cool kids gang.

I never heard of anything tbh, but I'd imagine there would be some people happy to have a new market opened up to them along with a commitment to increase spending