to take the plunge or not.

Looney1

I have been given the opportunity to take over 90 acres of marginal land. It ruins 40 dairy cows at present very ineffeciently. i currently have a very good off farm income circa 90k.
As i see it i have three options.
1 Take the opportunity , rent 60 acres next door(available) , spend 100k modernising , give up job and go dairying ( 60 - 70) cows
2. Part time dry stock or suckler farming , reduce off farm work ( reduce pay)
3 pass it buy.
I would love to take the plunge but am i mad.

Genghis Cant

Looney1 wrote: »

It ruins 40 dairy cows at present....

I hope this is a typo:eek:

Looney1

it was

Greengrass1

Looney1 wrote: »

I have been given the opportunity to take over 90 acres of marginal land. It ruins 40 dairy cows at present very ineffeciently. i currently have a very good off farm income circa 90k.
As i see it i have three options.
1 Take the opportunity , rent 60 acres next door(available) , spend 100k modernising , give up job and go dairying ( 60 - 70) cows
2. Part time dry stock or suckler farming , reduce off farm work ( reduce pay)
3 pass it buy.
I would love to take the plunge but am i mad.

What do you mean by marginal?
90 acres will run 120 cows

Looney1

I MEAN CLAY. NO FREE DRAINAGE AT ALL. IDEALLY NEEDS GRAVEL MOLE DRAINS. MAX 6 MONTHS GRAZING PER YEAR

sheebadog

Looney1 wrote: »

I have been given the opportunity to take over 90 acres of marginal land. It ruins 40 dairy cows at present very ineffeciently. i currently have a very good off farm income circa 90k.
As i see it i have three options.
1 Take the opportunity , rent 60 acres next door(available) , spend 100k modernising , give up job and go dairying ( 60 - 70) cows
2. Part time dry stock or suckler farming , reduce off farm work ( reduce pay)
3 pass it buy.
I would love to take the plunge but am i mad.

Pass it by if the job is secure and reasonably likeable.

Markcheese

Hhhmmm you've got a job that pays very well, pension (probably), holidays and holiday pay.. And other benefits probably, without having to borrow and invest..!!
Versus borrowing a packet for less money, 7 day a week,few financial perks , all for the privilege of being down a pit and worrying about milk price, weather next week etc etc .... Yeah go for it...

Can you put a share milker/farmer in and be involved but keep the security of the job...? Develop the farm and business , improve the farm and keep your options open ,as well as giving someone else a good start...

moy83

Looney1 wrote: »

I MEAN CLAY. NO FREE DRAINAGE AT ALL. IDEALLY NEEDS GRAVEL MOLE DRAINS. MAX 6 MONTHS GRAZING PER YEAR

If I had 90k coming in I wouldnt go for the dairying . But it depends whether you prefer the lifestyle of farming over the money

onyerbikepat

God, you must love your job. What do you work at?

blue5000

OP you say it is heavy clay, needs drainage, what county is it? It all depends if you like your 90k a year job. 40 cows is a good starting point, but expanding will be tough going especially if you have to borrow to do it. Another ting to consider is (if you have a spouse) what do they think.

moy83

Just another point , on 90k a year would you be able to put half that into stock and improving the land before you do take the leap for a few years . Maybe keep buying sucklers and get roadways and drainage done aver a few years until you are ready for milking then cash in the sucklers for dairy stock ?

Looney1

Thanks for great tips. What do people think of my alternative. Buying in 100 or so heifer calves every year from local dairy farmers ( hereford , limousin and a few simmentals) , giving them the best year of their lives ( milk replacer , crunch , good grass etc) and selling them as breeding heifers in 12 months. could keep my job then

conor t

Looney1 wrote: »

Thanks for great tips. What do people think of my alternative. Buying in 100 or so heifer calves every year from local dairy farmers ( hereford , limousin and a few simmentals) , giving them the best year of their lives ( milk replacer , crunch , good grass etc) and selling them as breeding heifers in 12 months. could keep my job then

Something like that is probably the best, enjoy yourself tipping away in your spare time and if you make anything its a plus. You could stick in improvements over 10-15years and farm full time then

munkus

Are you a TD by any chance?

You'd want your head examined if you give up a 90k job (once you don't detest it) for any kind of farming.

yellow50HX

One question OP. What is your farming background and what skills do you have already.

MayoSalmon

You seem like you love money...stick to your dayjob

Looney1

How can u say that.

mayota

Forget about it and look after what you have already.

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What do you mean by marginal?
90 acres will run 120 cows

Not a hope on marginal land

mahoney_j

Looney1 wrote: »

Thanks for great tips. What do people think of my alternative. Buying in 100 or so heifer calves every year from local dairy farmers ( hereford , limousin and a few simmentals) , giving them the best year of their lives ( milk replacer , crunch , good grass etc) and selling them as breeding heifers in 12 months. could keep my job then

On paper good plan but in theory maby not.the calves which will of got the best year of their lives will cost cubs lot of money which u may struggle to get back.year 1 is the most expensive and the guy buying in year 2 will reap all the benefits of all your hsrd work.if I were in ur shoes I'd keep the 90 k a year job,get into 70 cows and milk through a robot with part time help to rare calves etc and cobtract out all slurry,silage ,fertliser etc

Mulumpy

mahoney_j wrote: »

On paper good plan but in theory maby not.the calves which will of got the best year of their lives will cost cubs lot of money which u may struggle to get back.year 1 is the most expensive and the guy buying in year 2 will reap all the benefits of all your hsrd work.if I were in ur shoes I'd keep the 90 k a year job,get into 70 cows and milk through a robot with part time help to rare calves etc and cobtract out all slurry,silage ,fertliser etc

Milking cows and full time job is not a long term option. Robots in their existing state are not worth the hassle. Buy yearlings keep for 12 months. You wont be rich from it but you'll have a lot less grey hairs on your head.

J.O. Farmer

mahoney_j wrote: »

On paper good plan but in theory maby not.the calves which will of got the best year of their lives will cost cubs lot of money which u may struggle to get back.year 1 is the most expensive and the guy buying in year 2 will reap all the benefits of all your hsrd work.if I were in ur shoes I'd keep the 90 k a year job,get into 70 cows and milk through a robot with part time help to rare calves etc and cobtract out all slurry,silage ,fertliser etc

The system may need tweaking with something like buying weanling heifers instead of calves or some other system low on labour input and not as high on input as the one described. Dairying with a robot and hired labour sounds expensive too.
I certainly wouldn't want to walk away from 90k a year for farming. I know that salary is probably a very responsible role and stressful but perhaps a lesser role for say 50k with the dry stock farming might be a good compromise if the jobs too much.

mahoney_j

Mulumpy wrote: »

Milking cows and full time job is not a long term option. Robots in their existing state are not worth the hassle. Buy yearlings keep for 12 months. You wont be rich from it but you'll have a lot less grey hairs on your head.

Fully agree on the milking with full time job but I really think the robot,70 cows,part time help and keep the 90 k a year job are a real runner.very hard to walk away from a salary like that.

Mulumpy

I know but even with a robot you need to be around most of the time keeping an eye on things. You may as well pay a lad to milk full time as sort out what issues the robot throws up and pay service contracts etc. If EC couldnt make a go of them nobody can.

Damo810

Stick to the day job. Going into dairy with 40 cows your talking about making half what you currently make for twice the work more than likely. Also going to be quite an investment to get things running right.

As for any other enterprise, why bother if your doing well off farm, you'll be doing well to make anything off the 90 acres outside of dairying for a fair bit of work.

It is a lifestyle choice though, maybe your sick of the day job, want a change and are happy to live on a reduced income. Have you any farming experience? It's not all sunshine and daisys it's sometimes made out to be.

mahoney_j

Mulumpy wrote: »

I know but even with a robot you need to be around most of the time keeping an eye on things. You may as well pay a lad to milk full time as sort out what issues the robot throws up and pay service contracts etc. If EC couldnt make a go of them nobody can.

Id of said that too till I saw a guy in cork last year,simillar to op and working Monday to Friday 8 to 5 and milking 70 through a robot with help as I described .this was a guy very well clued in and excellent stock man..puts about 4 hours a day in on farm checking robots,cows,grass etc

Mulumpy

mahoney_j90392509 wrote:

Id of said that too till I saw a guy in cork last year,simillar to op and working Monday to Friday 8 to 5 and milking 70 through a robot with help as I described .this was a guy very well clued in and excellent stock man..puts about 4 hours a day in on farm checking robots,cows,grass etc

Fair play to him im sure there is a few like him around. Be nice in theory if it worked alright. I notice the most important thing you said there is that he is an excellent stockman. That's where a lot of the new entrants will fail with robots.

Damo810

mahoney_j wrote: »

Id of said that too till I saw a guy in cork last year,simillar to op and working Monday to Friday 8 to 5 and milking 70 through a robot with help as I described .this was a guy very well clued in and excellent stock man..puts about 4 hours a day in on farm checking robots,cows,grass etc

13 hour days, everyday must be a pain in the hole after a few years though. You'd want to be mad for cash. Surely a 70 cow farm is/was making north of 50K a year even with robots? Unless he has a young lad coming through would it not make more sense to focus on the farm and family? **** sake would they ever see him at all? :pac:

Green farmer

It would take several years , starting from scratch to make any income from farming as you'd have a lot of money out, you'd be learning as you went along, making lots of mistakes along the way.
Keep your day job and get into hobby farming. Grow it over time, then when the time is right and you have more facts in front of yourself, make a informed choice. Not everything in life revolves around money. You may enjoy farming more then your current work. However do it in stages, walk before you run.

mahoney_j

Damo810 wrote: »

13 hour days, everyday must be a pain in the hole after a few years though. You'd want to be mad for cash. Surely a 70 cow farm is/was making north of 50K a year even with robots? Unless he has a young lad coming through would it not make more sense to focus on the farm and family? **** sake would they ever see him at all? :pac:

Would be 4 hours ish in spring but this time of year outside of silage he is up at 6.30,an hour on farm off to work ,home for supper and family time and then maby another hour to check things.he loves farming,dairy cows in praticular ,no interest in cattle and wanted to continue and this serves him best

sea12

Op if your on a salary of 90k your net income is probably sround 41-43k. Pension based on your. 90k. Good perks such as healthcare. Shares etc


If your at that level your probably a sales director or equivalent level in some profession. Can be a pretty stressful job. Most people burn out After a few years of stress. You might not last at the 90k for ever as some people make out.

So can u make 40k from dairying. The two big question is how much farm experienced do u have?
How much do you want to leave your current job or are you happy in it?
Have you a family to support. What are their views?
What's your head not heart telling you?

Sometimes we all dream of being able to give up the day job and go farm. But the more use we get to the day job and money it is hard to give it up.

I don't believe you can do both.
Both jobs will suffer.
Best if luck with the decision making.

Greengrass1

Op maybe ye should give us a bit more insight into your self so we can stop this speculating.
Do you have any experience with cows?
If you do, do you like them/lifestyle.
Do you like your job?
Can you handle stress well? eg. No grass/no silage/money tight and bills mounting?
And maybe a bit of info about the farm and what you think it needs and weather you intend to full or part time.

Nekarsulm

Hold onto your job with both hands.
Swear blind that you are going to farm the 90 acres.
Get it into your own name.
Plant it, and draw the premiums for the next 20 years tax free.

Brown Podzol

Jersey x. Milk once a day. Pay relief milker for five mid-day milking a, should be easy enough to get a good milker mid day. Help in spring during calving. Contractors for all machinery work. Sorted.

Deepsouthwest

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Jersey x. Milk once a day. Pay relief milker for five mid-day milking a, should be easy enough to get a good milker mid day. Help in spring during calving. Contractors for all machinery work. Sorted.

If the guy is hell bent on milking cows, then this is probably his best bet.

keep going

Looney1 wrote: »

I have been given the opportunity to take over 90 acres of marginal land. It ruins 40 dairy cows at present very ineffeciently. i currently have a very good off farm income circa 90k.
As i see it i have three options.
1 Take the opportunity , rent 60 acres next door(available) , spend 100k modernising , give up job and go dairying ( 60 - 70) cows
2. Part time dry stock or suckler farming , reduce off farm work ( reduce pay)
3 pass it buy.
I would love to take the plunge but am i mad.

Simple answer is a question, what do you want to do.if you are smart enough to get a 90k job you are smart enough to make a go out of dairying.maybe look at a partnership option.and finally but most important what does oh think

darragh_haven

keep going wrote: »

Simple answer is a question, what do you want to do.if you are smart enough to get a 90k job you are smart enough to make a go out of dairying.maybe look at a partnership option.and finally but most important what does oh think

Yeah. My Oh does not like the idea, even though I am still investigating the possibilit of going Iinto dairyong in some forn, if I think it'd wreak my family life I'd walk away from it.

Good loser

In my opinion it would be crazy - even on 90 acres good land - to give up a 90k job for dairying or any other kind of farming.

keep going

darragh_haven wrote: »

Yeah. My Oh does not like the idea, even though I am still investigating the possibilit of going Iinto dairyong in some forn, if I think it'd wreak my family life I'd walk away from it.

I remember seeing that you were thikig about it and in my veiw your place is perfect for partnership involving a guy on the way up and yourself.biggest problem could be finding an operater up to your fathers standard which is top class.if your were a bitin closer id consider it but I dont think id past the test

darragh_haven

keep going wrote: »

I remember seeing that you were thikig about it and in my veiw your place is perfect for partnership involving a guy on the way up and yourself.biggest problem could be finding an operater up to your fathers standard which is top class.if your were a bitin closer id consider it but I dont think id past the test

I've been looking into the partnership option too..... but we'll see how it goes. Like the original poster, I have a good paying job (that I really like)

frazzledhome

Short term you'd be nuts.

If you have a longer term goal and the start up dairy is a means to an end I'd say go for it.

Marginal land is just that so short term your income will disappear. If however you could see this as a chance to build stock and get some income with a view to moving to better land I'd say jack the job and get going assuming you have experience. Other than that forget it

Toplink

OP,

Have you wife/kids? If not then maybe down the line you might.

You wont get away with 12 hour days then or working all day saturday...

I am in a slightly similar position... good job, have chance to take over 40 acres. went for it but I am buying weanlings and keeping for 12 months. ill make fcuk all but ill be learning as I go on and ill be taking over 100 acres at home in 10 years time and by then the hope is to farm full time...

The plan is to get mortgage paid and put 100k aside for kids education in next 10 years. Ambitious but you need goals. Then start farming full time with far less risk.

Username John

Toplink wrote: »

OP,


The plan is to get mortgage paid and put 100k aside for kids education in next 10 years. Ambitious but you need goals. Then start farming full time with far less risk.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Ambitious is right

joejobrien

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not a hope on marginal land

your spot on

Toplink

Username John wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Ambitious is right

Might take 15 years... But if I am aim for 10, it gives me 5 years to rectify any shortfalls

As Tyson used to say, every man has a plan till he gets punched in the face.

willfarmerman

Looney1 wrote: »

I have been given the opportunity to take over 90 acres of marginal land. It ruins 40 dairy cows at present very ineffeciently. i currently have a very good off farm income circa 90k.
As i see it i have three options.
1 Take the opportunity , rent 60 acres next door(available) , spend 100k modernising , give up job and go dairying ( 60 - 70) cows
2. Part time dry stock or suckler farming , reduce off farm work ( reduce pay)
3 pass it buy.
I would love to take the plunge but am i mad.

I would take Option. 2. I am assuming you are getting the use of the land off a elderly relation. Definitely take it. And don't be looking to make yourself a slave to it. Graze a few cattle on it. Make hay and sell it. Pick the feckin blackberries and sell them! DO NOT Give or cut back on a well paid job. Use the farm to reduce your tax and build up some tangible assets. Enjoy it. You have a chance at something more than house dog car mundane existence.

joejobrien

IMO Iwould stay as far away as possible from it. I bet you any money if your land is a marginal as you say it is you will have an ongoing headache watching your grass churned up, mud on it all over and you budgeted for x days of grazing......your cheapest feed source f...ked up.Be well prepared to house the cows for a lot longer than others and as you should know this will impact profit. I dont care how good a farmer you are , you will be a mile from 90k.Is there a possibility of selling the land and locate to a good dry farm. This way if your capable you wil make it work so long as you keepcost under control.

Toplink

willfarmerman wrote: »

I would take Option. 2. I am assuming you are getting the use of the land off a elderly relation. Definitely take it. And don't be looking to make yourself a slave to it. Graze a few cattle on it. Make hay and sell it. Pick the feckin blackberries and sell them! DO NOT Give or cut back on a well paid job. Use the farm to reduce your tax and build up some tangible assets. Enjoy it. You have a chance at something more than house dog car mundane existence.

Thats a belter of a post right there.

darragh_haven

willfarmerman wrote: »

I would take Option. 2. I am assuming you are getting the use of the land off a elderly relation. Definitely take it. And don't be looking to make yourself a slave to it. Graze a few cattle on it. Make hay and sell it. Pick the feckin blackberries and sell them! DO NOT Give or cut back on a wall paid job. Use the farm to reduce your tax and build up some tangible assets. Enjoy it. You have a chance at something more than house dog car mundane existence.

This is what I wanted to say but couldn't articulate it. I'm in a similar situation but earning a handy bit less money and would have probably a better holding to go back too if I wanted to.

But as willie said. Do not give up or cut back on your well paid job (unless you hate it)

jfh

Toplink wrote: »

Might take 15 years... But if I am aim for 10, it gives me 5 years to rectify any shortfalls

As Tyson used to say, every man has a plan till he gets punched in the face.

A wise man Tyson!

JohnBoy

Well paid jobs arent all lattes and hot secretarys either.

you dont get to 90k without working hard.

Thing is someone with the abilitly to earn 90k can probably earn 60k in their sleep, or in a short week.....


if it's what you want to do then do it. some people want to farm, it's in them and farming makes them happy.

I dont think that i'll ever get to full time farming (or 90k), but I've a day off tomorrow and I'm going picking stones, cutting a few branches off trees, fixing the spreader, some fencing and half a dozen other things and I cant wait to be out of the office.

The forecast is only a bonus, I'd be just as happy if it was pissing rain.