parking outside your gate

GoodLord

if you live in estate and have a gate but not a drive can you put a no parking sign on gate to stop people parking outside it.

my understanding is you can put a sign but because you do not have a drive to access people can ignore it and park outside your gate as they are not blocking access? is this right?

Not my issue or looking for advice.Just curious about something i heard

slimjimmc

Sounds about right imo, assuming we're talking about parking on a public road. I understand that private no parking signs on a public road have no legal authority so are basically just decoration (or clutter depending on your outlook).

GoodLord

slimjimmc wrote: »

Sounds about right imo, assuming we're talking about parking on a public road. I understand that private no parking signs on a public road have no legal authority so are basically just decoration (or clutter depending on your outlook).

if there is a driveway it cannot be blocked so they would be some use there

blackbird98

when you say "gate", are you talking about a small pedestrian gate? If so, I can't see why you could / would want to, prevent people parking in a public place

K.Flyer

GoodLord wrote: »

if you live in estate and have a gate but not a drive can you put a no parking sign on gate to stop people parking outside it...

This has been discussed several times on the Motors forum and it comes down to the same thing. ..
If a vehicle is parked legally on a roadside and is not blocking or impeding the use of a driveway there is nothing you can do about it.
If you can't access your pedestrian gate as per normal via the public footpath because a car is parking on the footpath then you can call the Garda to have it moved.

No Pants

K.Flyer wrote: »

If a vehicle is parked legally on a roadside and is not blocking or impeding the use of a driveway there is nothing you can do about it.

And if the driveway is blocked, is that also a matter for the Gardai?

K.Flyer

No Pants wrote: »

And if the driveway is blocked, is that also a matter for the Gardai?

It depends where you live, how often it happens, your patience level and how you want to deal with it.
Again its been discussed to death on the Motors forum, from inconsiderate neighbours to people parking outside peoples driveways to go do their shopping.
In Dublin you could call the Garda, but by the time they turn up the car could be gone, you would probably get a quicker response from the clampers.
Where we lived in Spain, if someone parked in front of your driveway you would give them 10 -15 mins to get back and if they didn't you just called a tow truck (Grua) and they took the car away.

Ashbx

OP yes you are right. You can put a sign there but legally, no-body has to abide to it!

desbrook

The offence is never the parking per se it's the blocking of access without owners permission.

In the case you have outlined I'm presuming the parked car does not block a pedestrian using the gate . Threfore no access is blocked. A sign may be put up and may be useful as it may discourage others from parking but it's not enforcable . Similar to a "Quiet please- I'm sleeping " sign :-)

No Pants

K.Flyer wrote: »

It depends where you live, how often it happens, your patience level and how you want to deal with it.
Again its been discussed to death on the Motors forum, from inconsiderate neighbours to people parking outside peoples driveways to go do their shopping.
In Dublin you could call the Garda, but by the time they turn up the car could be gone, you would probably get a quicker response from the clampers.
Where we lived in Spain, if someone parked in front of your driveway you would give them 10 -15 mins to get back and if they didn't you just called a tow truck (Grua) and they took the car away.

The reason I ask is that when the missus and I lived in Ballsbridge, some twat parked full across our driveway and she couldn't get the car out. She called the Gardai and...they said it was a civil matter and that she should take it up with the owner of the other car. :rolleyes:

desbrook

No Pants wrote: »

The reason I ask is that when the missus and I lived in Ballsbridge, some twat parked full across our driveway and she couldn't get the car out. She called the Gardai and...they said it was a civil matter and that she should take it up with the owner of the other car. :rolleyes:

Suprised at that.. It's against the rules of the road afaik.

No Pants

desbrook wrote: »

Suprised at that.. It's against the rules of the road afaik.

Well, that's what happened, but it was back in 2006. I think she eventually gave up and parked again and I found my own way home. The offending car was gone the next morning.

coylemj

desbrook wrote: »

Suprised at that.. It's against the rules of the road afaik.

The 'Rules of the Road' is a book giving guidance on how to drive and generally behave when in charge of a vehicle. It is an interpretation of the law, not a definitive statement of the law so you can't be charged with a breach of the RotR.

The Road Traffic Act 1961 created the offence commonly known as 'interfering with the mechanism of a vehicle', stated to be the following..

113.—(1) A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place, or get on or into or attempt to get on or into the vehicle while it is so stationary.

However, there is a subsection which specifically applies to the situation where your car is in your drive and blocked by a car which is otherwise legally parked on the public road outside....

(4) This section shall not apply to a person taking, in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle which is obstructing his lawful ingress or egress to or from any place, such steps as are reasonably necessary to move the vehicle by human propulsion for a distance sufficient to terminate the obstruction.

Now what is 'reasonably necessary' is obviously open to interpretation.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0113.html#sec113

K.Flyer

(With thanks to Kevin 3 who posted this about 2 years ago on a thread with the same question)

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997

Prohibitions on Parking

36. (1) Save as otherwise provided for in these Regulations and subject to article 5, a vehicle shall not be parked on a public road at a location, in a manner or for a purpose referred to in this article.

(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—

( a ) on that side of a section of roadway along the edge of which traffic sign number RRM 008 [double yellow lines] has been provided;
( b ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 019 [No Parking sign] has been provided, during the period indicated on the information plate accompanying such traffic sign;
( c ) within 5 metres of a road junction;
( d ) on a section of roadway with less than 3 traffic lanes and where traffic sign number RRM 001 [continuous white line] has been provided;
( e ) on a section of roadway where traffic sign number RUS 020, in association with RRM 029 [appointed stand], has been placed to indicate that an appointed stand has been provided;
( f ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing, delaying or interfering with the entrance to or exit from a fire brigade station, an ambulance station or a Garda station;
( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;
( h ) within 15 metres (on the approach side) or 5 metres (on the side other than the approach side) of a section of roadway where any of the following traffic signs have been provided—
(i) traffic sign number RPC 001 [Pedestrian Crossing];
(ii) traffic sign number RPC 002 [Pedestrian Crossing Complex]; or
(iii) traffic sign numbers RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 [traffic lights];
( i ) on a footway, a grass margin or a median strip;
( j ) on a part of a roadway which is a casual trading area, during hours of trading, unless the vehicle is for the time being in use for the purposes of casual trading;
( k ) in a manner in which it will interfere with the normal flow of traffic or which obstructs or endangers other traffic;
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.

No Pants

Well, we'll both know better for next time. Thanks.

evolving_doors

How about if it's up on the path blocking a wheel chair on the footh path

Ashbx

Armelodie wrote: »

How about if it's up on the path blocking a wheel chair on the footh path

As far as I am aware it is illegal for cars to have any wheels on a footpath. I think its either no wheels or all four wheels have to be on the path! But the Gardaí turn a blind eye to that!

Any time I am parking on a path, I will ALWAYS ensure I leave space for a buggy or a wheelchair to pass! Its common courtesy!

GoodLord

Thanks for feedback. It is not my gate someone I know.

I wondered if they created a driveway, it would them be illegal to block it wouldn't it? Not sure if that is practical i do not know the area

slimjimmc

GoodLord wrote: »

if there is a driveway it cannot be blocked so they would be some use there

There's no driveway according to the OP.

Victor

Ashbx wrote: »

As far as I am aware it is illegal for cars to have any wheels on a footpath.

Correct.

I think its either no wheels or all four wheels have to be on the path!

Not quite. If all four wheels are on the path, the clampers will first check if that section of path is public or private. If public and / or causing an obstruction, enforcement will take place. If private, the council's planning department may take enforcement for having an unauthorised parking space.

Any time I am parking on a path, I will ALWAYS ensure I leave space for a buggy or a wheelchair to pass! Its common courtesy!

You actually need to allow space for people to pass in each direction. Anything less than 1.35 metres (may vary by council area) will get you clamped / towed if there is a complaint.

GoodLord wrote: »

I wondered if they created a driveway, it would them be illegal to block it wouldn't it?

Correct. Blocking would be illegal. They would also have somewhere to park off-road.

slimjimmc wrote: »

There's no driveway according to the OP.

GoodLord is the OP.

No Pants

Would planning permission be needed for a driveway? I'm assuming that a right of way cannot just be created.

desbrook

No Pants wrote: »

Would planning permission be needed for a driveway? I'm assuming that a right of way cannot just be created.

That's a good point.

scouserT

No Pants wrote: »

Would planning permission be needed for a driveway? I'm assuming that a right of way cannot just be created.

I understand that it would be needed. A driveway should have a lipped or bowed kerb. So that raises the question, if you did get permission for a driveway who would be responsible for the lip on the kerb?

Victor

No Pants wrote: »

Would planning permission be needed for a driveway?

Yes. Usually easy enough to get.

scouserT wrote: »

I understand that it would be needed. A driveway should have a lipped or bowed kerb. So that raises the question, if you did get permission for a driveway who would be responsible for the lip on the kerb?

The council will put in the dished kerb - it is their footpath after all.

beauf

If you don't want people parking outside your house ( a gate has nothing to do with this) do you yourself and your visitors want to be banned from parking anywhere else on the street. Because isn't that the only way it could work.

GoodLord

beauf wrote: »

If you don't want people parking outside your house ( a gate has nothing to do with this) do you yourself and your visitors want to be banned from parking anywhere else on the street. Because isn't that the only way it could work.

it is not my house. is it ok if they block your drive?

TouchingVirus

GoodLord wrote: »

it is not my house. is it ok if they block your drive?

But you said it's not a drive, it's a pedestrian gate and it's not being blocked. This person you're enquiring for just doesn't want anybody parking outside their house. That's a grand opinion to have but they bought the house, not part of the public road outside of it. You've got your answer, unless the car being parked blocks ingress/egress to the property or is being parked on the path it's all above board.

Greenmachine

TouchingVirus wrote: »

But you said it's not a drive, it's a pedestrian gate and it's not being blocked. This person you're enquiring for just doesn't want anybody parking outside their house. That's a grand opinion to have but they bought the house, not part of the public road outside of it. You've got your answer, unless the car being parked blocks ingress/egress to the property or is being parked on the path it's all above board.

Agreed.

GoodLord

TouchingVirus wrote: »

But you said it's not a drive, it's a pedestrian gate and it's not being blocked. This person you're enquiring for just doesn't want anybody parking outside their house. That's a grand opinion to have but they bought the house, not part of the public road outside of it. You've got your answer, unless the car being parked blocks ingress/egress to the property or is being parked on the path it's all above board.

i asked if a drive would make a diffeence
"This person you're enquiring for just doesn't want anybody parking outside their house." speculation

coylemj

GoodLord wrote: »

i asked if a drive would make a diffeence
"This person you're enquiring for just doesn't want anybody parking outside their house." speculation

The law that's been quoted says that it's illegal to block a driveway but as your friend doesn't have a drive, the space outside his house is available for anyone to park on based on the principle that you don't own either the footpath or the parking space outside your house.

In German towns on some narrow streets I have seen white lines parallel to the road painted along some footpaths indicating that cars can partially park on the path up to but not over the white line.

roadsmart

coylemj wrote: »

The law that's been quoted says that it's illegal to block a driveway

No it doesn't. It says it's illegal to obstruct an entrance or exit for vehicles to a premises. Doesn't have to be a driveway, but includes driveways. If you had a large side gate on an end house for example, it would be illegal to block access, even if there was no kerb lowering.

beauf

GoodLord wrote: »

it is not my house. is it ok if they block your drive?

I meant you in general terms not you personally.

If everyone answers a question with question there would never be any answers.

Who owns what is irrelevant. Its a public road and you cant block access.

coylemj

roadsmart wrote: »

No it doesn't. It says it's illegal to obstruct an entrance or exit for vehicles to a premises.

Which is what a driveway is and that's what this thread is about.

Is there a daily prize for hair-splitting?

roadsmart

Sorry. If I realised you were that touchy I wouldn't have pointed out that you were wrong.