Aer lingus strike 30th May.

copacetic

So the journal reporting that aer lingus cabin crew will strike for 24 hours starting 30th may at one minute last midnight.
http://www.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-strike-2-1463381-May2014/

Does anyone have any experience of what this would mean for a flight that is planned to be in the air at this time, but only halfway home?

I.e flight doesn't leave, is cancelled etc etc? This is the Friday of the bank holiday weekend.

kub

OP apologies but I have no idea on that but I would just like to hope that all those EI staff have a nice long weekend.

So last time it was St Patricks weekend now this. Well i suppose it must be annoying to them that their CEO recently got a huge raise.

Jack1985

copacetic wrote: »

So the journal reporting that aer lingus cabin crew will strike for 24 hours starting 30th may at one minute last midnight.
http://www.thejournal.ie/aer-lingus-strike-2-1463381-May2014/

Does anyone have any experience of what this would mean for a flight that is planned to be in the air at this time, but only halfway home?

I.e flight doesn't leave, is cancelled etc etc? This is the Friday of the bank holiday weekend.

If the flight is airborne prior to strike notice don't expect it not to operate (legally this is the case). Being honest It's very unlikely this will go ahead, more legal limbo will be involved.

This new wave of action is by a union damaged seriously back in March who frankly have nothing better to do than screw not only there own members who they ''claim'' to represent but damage a brand they seem hell-bent on doing again and again. This new dispute is laughable, and cabin crew have a serious neck to complain about the new conditions primarily for the new SFO service and note also this is a very small number of crew who are involved in this.

Cabin crew currently work up to 60 hours across a seven day period, working six days on with one day off, followed by six more working days, according to IMPACT.

The above happens on rare occasions and is not a guaranteed situation for numerous weeks from what I've seen it happens about 1-3 times a year and in the majority of cases not at all. But the unions will milk this because that's all they are good at.

mrcheez

Sooo, say one is due to fly back from Spain on the 30th, is one screwed?

Is the strike starting at 00:01 on morning of 30th, or midnight of the NIGHT of the 30th?

cruais

Jack1985 wrote: »

If the flight is airborne prior to strike notice don't expect it not to operate (legally this is the case). Being honest It's very unlikely this will go ahead, more legal limbo will be involved.

This new wave of action is by a union damaged seriously back in March who frankly have nothing better to do than screw not only there own members who they ''claim'' to represent but damage a brand they seem hell-bent on doing again and again. This new dispute is laughable, and cabin crew have a serious neck to complain about the new conditions primarily for the new SFO service and note also this is a very small number of crew who are involved in this.



The above happens on rare occasions and is not a guaranteed situation for numerous weeks from what I've seen it happens about 1-3 times a year and in the majority of cases not at all. But the unions will milk this because that's all they are good at.

You seem to be stirring the pot here for ei staff. I highly doubt that the unions could exaggerate this info as then they could be liable for legal action?

cruais

mrcheez wrote: »

Sooo, say one is due to fly back from Spain on the 30th, is one screwed?

Is the strike starting at 00:01 on morning of 30th, or midnight of the NIGHT of the 30th?

I'd imagine that once the flight is airborne, that it would continue. It would be pure badness if it cancelled.

My taking of it is its 00:01 at midnight of the 30th

Jack1985

mrcheez wrote: »

Sooo, say one is due to fly back from Spain on the 30th, is one screwed?

Is the strike starting at 00:01 on morning of 30th, or midnight of the NIGHT of the 30th?

The proposed strike would start on that date, effecting definitely the days flights on the 30/5/14 if it goes ahead.

You seem to be stirring the pot here for ei staff. I highly doubt that the unions could exaggerate this info as then they could be liable for legal action?

They were foolish enough to do it in March and being honest I would not put it past them again (unions). Also I am not stirring the pot for my colleagues, rather I am sick of the constant threat of strikes which damage the company and ultimately leads to reduced bookings for the proposed period. The crux of this issue is basically the SFO route, having a reduced layover from 3 days off at SFO to 26hrs which is not unbearable - If this is axed more than likely the SFO route will follow as it was the same reason plus at the time fuel costs which closed in the route in 2009. Pilots have no issue with the new layover for SFO, a select few cabin crew do.

jester77

I'm due to fly into Ireland on the day of their announced strike. Can I just call them up in the morning and have my booking moved to either the day before or day after?

I can't afford to wait a week or 2 for them to sort their sh*t out. I have hotels booked and would need to cancel them in the next few days if I want to get a full refund.

The Megaphone

Selfish post here - does anyone if this strike action will affect the Aer Arann / Aer Lingus Regional flights?

mrcheez

jester77 wrote: »

I'm due to fly into Ireland on the day of their announced strike. Can I just call them up in the morning and have my booking moved to either the day before or day after?

I can't afford to wait a week or 2 for them to sort their sh*t out. I have hotels booked and would need to cancel them in the next few days if I want to get a full refund.

Are you the "one" I was talking about?

Same situation here ... gonna give them a buzz in the morning and establish if strike starts in morning or night of 30th

And here's me thinking I was lucky not taking a Ryanair flight... live and learn

Growler!!!

The Megaphone wrote: »

Selfish post here - does anyone if this strike action will affect the Aer Arann / Aer Lingus Regional flights?

No, they are separate companies.

kub

Jack1985 wrote: »

The proposed strike would start on that date, effecting definitely the days flights on the 30/5/14 if it goes ahead.



They were foolish enough to do it in March and being honest I would not put it past them again (unions). Also I am not stirring the pot for my colleagues, rather I am sick of the constant threat of strikes which damage the company and ultimately leads to reduced bookings for the proposed period. The crux of this issue is basically the SFO route, having a reduced layover from 3 days off at SFO to 26hrs which is not unbearable - If this is axed more than likely the SFO route will follow as it was the same reason plus at the time fuel costs which closed in the route in 2009. Pilots have no issue with the new layover for SFO, a select few cabin crew do.

Ok just to ask a stupid question here, if the cabin crew on the SFO route hate it so much, then why don't they request another route? Then if no EI cabin crew want to work it then sub it out.

Cessna_Pilot

kub wrote: »

if the cabin crew on the SFO route hate it so much, then why don't they request another route? .

I'd go one better and ask why don't they just leave and give their jobs to people who actually want to work.

Jack1985

kub wrote: »

Ok just to ask a stupid question here, if the cabin crew on the SFO route hate it so much, then why don't they request another route? Then if no EI cabin crew want to work it then sub it out.

There'll probably be a threat of exactly that by management, but that will not happen. There needs to be dialogue, but as per usual with IMPACT strike first, think about talking later. The vast majority of crew have no issue doing the SFO run, it's this expectation (by some!) they deserve a 3 day layover at SFO to then operate a return basically a weeks pay for 2 sectors - Ridiculous and everybody at EI knows it.

Kaizersoze81

Seriously pissed off with them. Going to make a point of never booking with them again, and I'd imagine a lot of people will. Maybe they'll be happy when they've no jobs to go to.

Jack1985

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Seriously pissed off with them. Going to make a point of never booking with the again, and I'd imagine a lot of people will. Maybe they'll be happy when they've no jobs to go to.

Just remember also a select few do not represent the company, unfortunately as though it may seem that way I think looking back through recent disputes (exclude the pensions) you'll find one key group of the group stands out. The only good thing in my view of this is they are verging extremely close now (impact) to losing the support of the public and as fast as that comes there f**ked and I'll be a happy lad that day.

kub

Jack1985 wrote: »

There'll probably be a threat of exactly that by management, but that will not happen. There needs to be dialogue, but as per usual with IMPACT strike first, think about talking later. The vast majority of crew have no issue doing the SFO run, it's this expectation (by some!) they deserve a 3 day layover at SFO to then operate a return basically a weeks pay for 2 sectors - Ridiculous and everybody at EI knows it.

So some of them are still stuck in the glory days of aviation in the 1960's / 70's. What is the situation with other carriers on such routes?

Jack1985

kub wrote: »

So some of them are still stuck in the glory days of aviation in the 1960's / 70's. What is the situation with other carriers on such routes?

Yes unfortunately. An example from BA would be 3 days layover (That's what IMPACT want restored against '09). But it needs to be remembered, Aer Lingus is not able to cover those costs with its size when compared with the competition and everyone knows we need to be ahead of the competition. Emirates have a 26 hour layover (Same on the current rosters for EI) on the DXB-LAX run, crew on that flight have a duration of over 16hrs, DUB-SFO is 11hrs. Need I say more.

kub

11 hours and 3 days to recover, I know plenty who work in the real world and work 12/13 hours day sometimes 6 days a week.

I should have been born a woman and became an EI td .........cabin crew member. I know i am old fashioned and do not mean to offend any male cabin crew.

JP Liz V1

So are you refunded or are other arrangements (different flights with other airlines rescheduled) put in place if you have already flights booked and paid for during strike time?

Bessarion

The statement by IMPACT is very bad. It makes it seems as if the 5/3 pattern and the SFO are the only issues. In fact there are at least 10 separate issues affecting the cabin crew at present. It looks as if IMPACT decided to focus on these 2. Which in my mind is bad.

Jack1985 wrote: »

....They were foolish enough to do it in March and being honest I would not put it past them again (unions)......The crux of this issue is basically the SFO route, having a reduced layover from 3 days off at SFO to 26hrs which is not unbearable - If this is axed more than likely the SFO route will follow as it was the same reason plus at the time fuel costs which closed in the route in 2009. Pilots have no issue with the new layover for SFO, a select few cabin crew do.

2 points here: 1-The strike threat in February was SIPTU and was in relation to the overall pension issue.
2-Actually the SFO was route was NOT axed due to staffing costs....it was a profitable route but was axed as EI decided they would get a better profit increasing frequencies on DUB-BOS, DUB-ORD and DUB-JFK while consolidating their route network to increase its robustness. I was in HOB at the time.

And the SFO route is not about 3 days there.....its about rest time afterwards. Flight crew get 5 days off after 1 night there, while cabin crew get 2 days off. (Land in from SFO at 1135 on Monday, can be in again on Thursday morning at 0555) Obviously some ppl would love 3 days there (who wouldn't?) but 26 hours turnarounds (chock to chock) are doable with proper rest following.

kub wrote: »

Ok just to ask a stupid question here, if the cabin crew on the SFO route hate it so much, then why don't they request another route? Then if no EI cabin crew want to work it then sub it out.

EI crew don't get to choose their routes, they can request certain flights but its 40% seniority/ 60% luck if they get their requests.

kub wrote: »

So some of them are still stuck in the glory days of aviation in the 1960's / 70's. What is the situation with other carriers on such routes?

EI crew don't want to go back to the 60's/70's. However they want parity with other carriers. The example of Emirates isn't wholly fair as EK crew only operate longhaul.....EI are one of the very few airlines worldwide operating mixed short/long fleet cabin crew with minimum legal limits (referred to as FTL's)
I would guess that the EI crew would be happy to settle on 3 days off afterwards.....currently EI cannot guarantee 3 days off at any time.....the 5/3 pattern would also assist in this matter.


Other issues:
-Junior mgnrs being told they no longer have a job by EI unless they sign new 6 month renewable contracts......after 2 years of arguing the LRC recommended that they be reinstated. EI refused to follow the LRC recommendation.
-LRC deal on Greenfield from early 2011 has still not been followed by EI. Cabin crew still have no published employment contract.
-EI refused to trial new roster systems that they intially agreed to do in 2011.
-EI staff (entire company) on a pay freeze from 2006. Understandable 4-6 years ago but not in light of 4 years of profitability and the huge bonus given to CEO. (Which plane for plane is more that BA, VS, EK, AA, UA etc)
- EI allowed up to 30% of the workforce to be part-time when agreement in place is 15%.
-EI refusing to promote proper ratio's of staff so many longhaul flights go out with insufficient 'purser grade' staff rostered.
-EI refusing to actually sit down and start a debate with the staff reps before the launch of the SFO operation.
-EI employing new junior mngr's who have no aviation experience, knowledge and or training. Thus are unable to understand the problems encountered onboard. One of these had to be told what a 'fuselage' was.
-EI crew not permitted to get weekends off before their holidays start,something that all others EI workers get automatically.
-EI bring cabin crew in for disciplinary meetings over sick leave when the sick leave was work related. (As in not 'sickies') Hence many crew come to work even if sick with colds/flu. (sound normal for most workers but not when subject to pressure changes and reduced air pressure/oxygen)
-EI crew being forced to operate duties outside legal limits, with the provisio that "an investigation will take place into the debate when you get back"
-EI crew being made to take unplanned/unpaid time off work as they reach their legal maximum flight hours 9-10 months into the year. (I myself flew 892 hours last year, I had 4 weeks of leave time. I was given 4 unwanted weeks off on 50% pay (hello koku noodles) and was off sick with a work related injury for 1 week.)

Most of these issues are minor in the great scheme of things......'its death by a thousand cuts'. None on their own are worthy of strike action

I think this is a bad call by IMPACT. I think they would have been better to have commenced a campaign of inflexibility and non-cooperation with any non-safety or core job role functions.

Jack1985

So are you refunded or are other arrangements (different flights with other airlines rescheduled) put in place if you have already flights booked and paid for during strike time?

If you have flights booked with other airlines outside Aer Lingus airline agreements' then you will not be refunded/compensated for those legs. For the booked Aer Lingus leg's you will be offered a full refund or re-scheduled flight where available.

2 points here: 1-The strike threat in February was SIPTU and was in relation to the overall pension issue.
2-Actually the SFO was route was NOT axed due to staffing costs....it was a profitable route but was axed as EI decided they would get a better profit increasing frequencies on DUB-BOS, DUB-ORD and DUB-JFK while consolidating their route network to increase its robustness. I was in HOB at the time.

And the SFO route is not about 3 days there.....its about rest time afterwards. Flight crew get 5 days off after 1 night there, while cabin crew get 2 days off. (Land in from SFO at 1135 on Monday, can be in again on Thursday morning at 0555) Obviously some ppl would love 3 days there (who wouldn't?) but 26 hours turnarounds (chock to chock) are doable with proper rest following.

Regards point one I made that clear. Point two, I believe you are wrong there - I've asked directly about that and have been told DUB-LAX was axed due to the cost of fuel and crew simply outweighing revenue generated, management then decided to focus on SFO and increase the flights there in 2008/2009 - Then the whole operation including short-haul went into the red. SFO was then axed because costs outweighed revenue. It wasn't until 2011 we saw recovery in L/H that being after the Regional operation started in Mar 2010 focusing on taking on the loss-making S/H routes and interconnecting into the L/H network.

The duty days after the SFO return are a problem area for some, but my point (which I made clear) was that is not replicated to all the crew an example I can think of is a CC who returned Monday week at 11:35 and was operating an early last Friday I honestly do not believe that is a major ask of a crew member as it is not replicated every week. I also know of a pilot who arrived in on the 146 last Monday week and then operated an early last Thursday also. The difference between crew and pilots obviously you know well is regulated hours - that varies and it is not a given 5 day off after arrival on the 146 for pilots.

3DataModem

So whats' the story for those booked on 30th? Can we cancel / reschedule now?

mrcheez

According to post #22, yes you can. Nutzoid.. I guess it's Ryanair from here on...

Suasdaguna1

Have EIN responded to this officially yet?

jester77

3DataModem wrote: »

So whats' the story for those booked on 30th? Can we cancel / reschedule now?

I called them this morning. The woman said that it is only notice to strike and until the strike is confirmed as going ahead then there is nothing you can do. If the strike goes ahead you can either get a full refund or rebook. If you want to change a flight right now just to be safe, then you will have to pay €40 per flight and the difference in the price of the ticket.

mrcheez

Curious to know what happens to those in mid-trip, where the return journey is on 30th. No refund possible there.

Will an alternative return date be assigned gratis?

Will accommodation be provided?

EDIT: Found this which could be handy: http://www.money.co.uk/article/1004955-what-are-my-rights-if-my-flight-is-cancelled-because-of-strike-action.htm

What Are My Rights if My Flight is Cancelled Because of Strike Action
by Hannah from money.co.uk

Will you be able to claim a refund? What does it mean for the rest of your holiday? Will you need to claim on your travel insurance? We explain everything you need to know.
Paper Plane
Will my flight be affected?

Airlines never want to see a strike go ahead as it affects their reputation and costs them money. Consequently even when a strike is officially announced they'll work to keep disruption and cancellations to a minimum. This includes working with legal teams to negotiate away from strike action and training extra staff to take on the roles of those that will strike.

As such not all flights that are scheduled for departure during industrial action will be affected and some will go ahead as planned.

It's worth noting that airlines often prioritise international flights when staff availability is limited, although this can't be taken as a given.

If you booked your flight direct with the airline they should notify you directly if any of your travel plans will be affected by strike action. They will contact you using the details you provided when you booked your tickets so it's always worth double checking that you enter these correctly just in case. The airline should also post information about cancelled flights on their website.

If you haven't heard anything but are aware that you will be travelling at a time when industrial action will be taking place, it's always worth contacting the airline in advance to make sure you will be able to travel as planned.

If you booked your flights as part of a package deal then the tour operator will be responsible either for issuing a refund or finding alternative flights so you should contact them to find out their plans.
Can I get a refund if my flight is cancelled?

If your flight is cancelled because of strike action you are, thanks to EU regulations, entitled to either:

a full refund, paid within 7 days.
an alternative flight to your destination from a nearby airport; the airline will be responsible for additional travel costs.
an alternative flight on a later date outside the strike period; this tends to be limited to flights departing within the following 12 months.

It is worth noting that you won't be able to rebook or claim a refund (unless you have a flexible or refundable ticket) until the dates of the strike are announced and the airline have confirmed that your flight will be affected.
What are my rights if my fight is delayed?

If you experience a significant delay the airline is requird to make your wait a reasonably comfortable one.

You'll be entitled to a phone call, refreshments, a meal and accommodation (and transport to the accommodation) if your flight:

is delayed by 2 hours or more and less than 1,500km
is delayed by 3 hours or more and within the EU, or between 1,500km and 3,500km to a destination outside the EU
is delayed for 4 hours or more and over 3,500km to a destination outside of the EU

Your airline should provide these for you, but if not you should keep any receipts and contact their customer services to make a claim.

If your flight is delayed by 5 hours or more you have the rifght to cancel your journey and have the cost of your flight reimbursed within 7 days.

If you are waiting for a connecting flight your airline will also have to fly you back to your original destination.

And, if you have booked a return flight on the same ticket as your outgoing journey your airline will also be required to reimburse this cost.

Read more: http://www.money.co.uk/article/1004955-what-are-my-rights-if-my-flight-is-cancelled-because-of-strike-action.htm#ixzz31ggDKQoI

Locker10a

Bessarion wrote: »

The statement by IMPACT is very bad. It makes it seems as if the 5/3 pattern and the SFO are the only issues. In fact there are at least 10 separate issues affecting the cabin crew at present. It looks as if IMPACT decided to focus on these 2. Which in my mind is bad.

2 points here: 1-The strike threat in February was SIPTU and was in relation to the overall pension issue.
2-Actually the SFO was route was NOT axed due to staffing costs....it was a profitable route but was axed as EI decided they would get a better profit increasing frequencies on DUB-BOS, DUB-ORD and DUB-JFK while consolidating their route network to increase its robustness. I was in HOB at the time.

And the SFO route is not about 3 days there.....its about rest time afterwards. Flight crew get 5 days off after 1 night there, while cabin crew get 2 days off. (Land in from SFO at 1135 on Monday, can be in again on Thursday morning at 0555) Obviously some ppl would love 3 days there (who wouldn't?) but 26 hours turnarounds (chock to chock) are doable with proper rest following.

EI crew don't get to choose their routes, they can request certain flights but its 40% seniority/ 60% luck if they get their requests. EI crew don't want to go back to the 60's/70's. However they want parity with other carriers. The example of Emirates isn't wholly fair as EK crew only operate longhaul.....EI are one of the very few airlines worldwide operating mixed short/long fleet cabin crew with minimum legal limits (referred to as FTL's)
I would guess that the EI crew would be happy to settle on 3 days off afterwards.....currently EI cannot guarantee 3 days off at any time.....the 5/3 pattern would also assist in this matter.


Other issues:
-Junior mgnrs being told they no longer have a job by EI unless they sign new 6 month renewable contracts......after 2 years of arguing the LRC recommended that they be reinstated. EI refused to follow the LRC recommendation.
-LRC deal on Greenfield from early 2011 has still not been followed by EI. Cabin crew still have no published employment contract.
-EI refused to trial new roster systems that they intially agreed to do in 2011.
-EI staff (entire company) on a pay freeze from 2006. Understandable 4-6 years ago but not in light of 4 years of profitability and the huge bonus given to CEO. (Which plane for plane is more that BA, VS, EK, AA, UA etc)
- EI allowed up to 30% of the workforce to be part-time when agreement in place is 15%.
-EI refusing to promote proper ratio's of staff so many longhaul flights go out with insufficient 'purser grade' staff rostered.
-EI refusing to actually sit down and start a debate with the staff reps before the launch of the SFO operation.
-EI employing new junior mngr's who have no aviation experience, knowledge and or training. Thus are unable to understand the problems encountered onboard. One of these had to be told what a 'fuselage' was.
-EI crew not permitted to get weekends off before their holidays start,something that all others EI workers get automatically.
-EI bring cabin crew in for disciplinary meetings over sick leave when the sick leave was work related. (As in not 'sickies') Hence many crew come to work even if sick with colds/flu. (sound normal for most workers but not when subject to pressure changes and reduced air pressure/oxygen)
-EI crew being forced to operate duties outside legal limits, with the provisio that "an investigation will take place into the debate when you get back"
-EI crew being made to take unplanned/unpaid time off work as they reach their legal maximum flight hours 9-10 months into the year. (I myself flew 892 hours last year, I had 4 weeks of leave time. I was given 4 unwanted weeks off on 50% pay (hello koku noodles) and was off sick with a work related injury for 1 week.)

Most of these issues are minor in the great scheme of things......'its death by a thousand cuts'. None on their own are worthy of strike action

I think this is a bad call by IMPACT. I think they would have been better to have commenced a campaign of inflexibility and non-cooperation with any non-safety or core job role functions.

Wow that's ridiculous!! I work for a super efficient airline and the above would never happen , it wouldn't be acceptable, wow I can't believe such things go on @ EI , and to think I was hopeing to jump ship over there.....

IRLConor

Bessarion wrote: »

-EI refusing to actually sit down and start a debate with the staff reps before the launch of the SFO operation.

All of the other issues seem to me like legitimate complaints (I don't agree with striking about them, but that's an entirely separate argument) but the one above makes no sense to me. Why would the company consult the staff about launching a new product?

Anywhere I've worked, product decisions are made by the board and/or product managers and anyone on the implementation side of things (like me) just has to get on with it.

Locker10a

IRLConor wrote: »

All of the other issues seem to me like legitimate complaints (I don't agree with striking about them, but that's an entirely separate argument) but the one above makes no sense to me. Why would the company consult the staff about launching a new product?

Anywhere I've worked, product decisions are made by the board and/or product managers and anyone on the implementation side of things (like me) just has to get on with it.

I think it means more so discussing how the operation will be crewed and not the actually service/product!

IRLConor

Locker10a wrote: »

I think it means more so discussing how the operation will be crewed and not the actually service/product!

Well, I also don't get to choose the number of people working on my team or the number of hours we have available to complete the task. If I'm lucky I might be asked "is this possible?", but more often than not I'm not asked.

Locker10a

IRLConor wrote: »

Well, I also don't get to choose the number of people working on my team or the number of hours we have available to complete the task. If I'm lucky I might be asked "is this possible?", but more often than not I'm not asked.

Yes yes yes and in 90% of companies its the same however a simple consultation with staff at least makes them feel involved and important and does wonders for moral and better relations in general and would be generally good management! Its the simple things that can make all the difference to people attitudes ,being blankly ignored tends to piss people off I find! Unfortunately aer lingus management and unions are equally as bitter and vindictive as one another and while that continues so will poor industrial relations.
What needs to happen is fresh, new more modern Union leaders AND HR managers need to be put in place and all the old bitter ones NEED TO GO ! Its the only way the company can move on and I dont think EI will do this because they are to stubborn

Tenger

Locker10a wrote: »

.......
What needs to happen is fresh, new more modern Union leaders AND HR managers need to be put in place and all the old bitter ones NEED TO GO ! Its the only way the company can move on and I dont think EI will do this because they are to stubborn

I'm with Locker10a on this point. The IR issues in EI have never been properly dealt with over the years as one side is stubborn and truculent while the other is frustrated and angry.

copacetic

jester77 wrote: »

I called them this morning. The woman said that it is only notice to strike and until the strike is confirmed as going ahead then there is nothing you can do. If the strike goes ahead you can either get a full refund or rebook. If you want to change a flight right now just to be safe, then you will have to pay €40 per flight and the difference in the price of the ticket.

Yeah, it's totally unsatisfactory. I have to be back that day. They are giving absolutely no guarantees they will run the flight, but also say they won't give me my money back if I make alternative arrangements.

They expect me to wait until the day and hope for the best, then only if flight is cancelled they will make arrangements, again with absolutely no guarantees I'll get back. It appears they will wait until day of flight to confirm that. Which makes it seem very unlikely I'd be able to get home that day.

cruais

The threatened strike in feb/mar was actually a siptu strike and involved the daa, airport police/fire service, general daa staff and siptu aerlingus staff which I think is generally ground staff. Papers sell when EI are in the headlines.

LXFlyer

copacetic wrote: »

Yeah, it's totally unsatisfactory. I have to be back that day. They are giving absolutely no guarantees they will run the flight, but also say they won't give me my money back if I make alternative arrangements.

They expect me to wait until the day and hope for the best, then only if flight is cancelled they will make arrangements, again with absolutely no guarantees I'll get back. It appears they will wait until day of flight to confirm that. Which makes it seem very unlikely I'd be able to get home that day.

I doubt that they will wait until the day itself.


On the last occasion they made a call about a week or so in advance and allowed people to rebook.


Until the company are certain that the strike will happen, they are not going to start cancelling flights.


As others have posted, the strike may well not happen if the state labour relations machinery gets involved.

copacetic

lxflyer wrote: »

I doubt that they will wait until the day itself.


On the last occasion they made a call about a week or so in advance and allowed people to rebook.


Until the company are certain that the strike will happen, they are not going to start cancelling flights.


As others have posted, the strike may well not happen if the state labour relations machinery gets involved.

That's not really great for people who will be abroad at that time, they don't have to cancel flights, but they could offer to move people to the day before at no charge. Which would be reasonable approach and expectation.

Jack1985

copacetic wrote: »

That's not really great for people who will be abroad at that time, they don't have to cancel flights, but they could offer to move people to the day before at no charge. Which would be reasonable approach and expectation.

Hi copacetic, more than likely you will be offered this option but at present (until at least Friday) management are going to be talking to impact to try and avert this, if that fails by Friday - Then management will enact procedures to minimise the disruption which in three waves seeks to ask travelling passengers on inevitable cancelled flights the offer of travel on the preceding (29th)/following (31st) days where time permits. For long-haul there will be more generous offers as most flights are near capacity at the moment regardless. Second to that will be refunds where applicable and thirdly the organisation of ad-hoc flights by other carriers where flights necessitate that. If you could tell me your origin flight details (Flight No/Point of Origin), I can look into what's on the cards for yourself. Unfortunately though today there have been calls with the exact same justified concern shown by yourself and staff can simply not do anything at this stage until Friday arrives where all details of the action are known or hopefully by that date it can be averted.

Regards

LXFlyer

copacetic wrote: »

That's not really great for people who will be abroad at that time, they don't have to cancel flights, but they could offer to move people to the day before at no charge. Which would be reasonable approach and expectation.

And they probably will do that, but why would they start switching everyone from flights when there's still a strong possibility that talks may take place that may avert the strike. That's still over two weeks away, which is plenty of time to resolve this.

It's far from ideal for passengers such as yourself, but I'm sure that they will offer that facility if they feel the strike is going to happen.

They may try to maintain some semblance of a service through hiring in aircraft alternatively.

Until there is some certainty, it's a case of sit tight and wait.

Spanish Eyes

This is a self fulfilling prophesy IMV. AL will kill themselves stone dead by a thousand cuts.

And I really like travelling with AL. The whole experience is good. And sometimes paying a few bob more for that little comfort is so worth it...but now.....good god. No.

Do the staff want to be without a job or what?

It smacks of the PS/semi State entitlement culture. They haven't moved on fully. Although I do know many drastic changes have been made already. But if that hadn't happened the current lot might Have been on the dole five years by now.

They should just refuse to serve food, drink, DF, and perfume on board.

olive20

Unnecessary attack on the personal appearance of a company's staff. Airline bashing. Doesn't contribute to the discussion.
Please keep your comments on topic and civil.

fr336

Joe Public's holiday > People's livelihood and working conditions (the latter often including things that relate to customers..such as SAFETY (not suggesting this is the case here).

Apparently.

Ireland seemingly won't be happy till they're like the UK in terms of unions..an utter slave to millionaires and billionaires and it just gets worse all the time all over the place. "They came for the Aer Lingus 'gangsters' and I did nothing..when they came for me, there was nobody to defend me.." :pac:

fr336

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Seriously pissed off with them. Going to make a point of never booking with them again, and I'd imagine a lot of people will. Maybe they'll be happy when they've no jobs to go to.

Good for you. I presume then you will complain about the non striking, cheap, yet "oh so much hassle" Ryanair, for instance?

jester77

fr336 wrote: »

Good for you. I presume then you will complain about the non striking, cheap, yet "oh so much hassle" Ryanair, for instance?

How is Ryanair hassle? They have rules that everyone knows about so there are no excuses. In all my years of flying with them I've never once encountered an issue, the majority of my flights took off on time and arrived on time and I never had a flight cancelled. I can't say the same for Aer Lingus unfortunately. The worst was almost missing being best man at my friends wedding few years ago but luckily I was able to get to Bremen on time and fly with Ryanair.

I was only flying with Aer Lingus this time as I was bringing my son to Ireland for the first time to meet his family and the airport is less than 10 mins from my house, thought it would be easier with all the stuff I need to bring for him. In future I will drive the 2 hours to Bremen and fly with Ryanair from there.

It's not worth the hassle any more. I've 2 hotels booked in Ireland while I'm there and now I'm in limbo. If I don't soon cancel I will not get my money back, if I do cancel and the flights go ahead then I've no accommodation sorted. And Aer Lingus won't give me a refund until the strike is confirmed as going ahead, which will probably be 23:55 the day before. I'm done flying with them now, as I've sure are many others.

lord lucan

olive20 wrote: »

Ha! I was watching some of the Siobhans and Cormacs waddle thru T2 2day and yeah I guess they wont go on strike. Sure whos going to scoff all the Irish Breakfasts! Big waists lot of those women, 16/18

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic being discussed, any more comments like this will be met with infractions.

Locker10a

jester77 wrote: »

How is Ryanair hassle? They have rules that everyone knows about so there are no excuses. In all my years of flying with them I've never once encountered an issue, the majority of my flights took off on time and arrived on time and I never had a flight cancelled. I can't say the same for Aer Lingus unfortunately. The worst was almost missing being best man at my friends wedding few years ago but luckily I was able to get to Bremen on time and fly with Ryanair.

I was only flying with Aer Lingus this time as I was bringing my son to Ireland for the first time to meet his family and the airport is less than 10 mins from my house, thought it would be easier with all the stuff I need to bring for him. In future I will drive the 2 hours to Bremen and fly with Ryanair from there.

It's not worth the hassle any more. I've 2 hotels booked in Ireland while I'm there and now I'm in limbo. If I don't soon cancel I will not get my money back, if I do cancel and the flights go ahead then I've no accommodation sorted. And Aer Lingus won't give me a refund until the strike is confirmed as going ahead, which will probably be 23:55 the day before. I'm done flying with them now, as I've sure are many others.

Yes that's all awful and everything but you are not the only person to be disrupted ever you will be accommodated ! Look at the disruption in France today with ATC for example and what about incidents of storm ,ash , security threat , these sort of disruptions happen unfortunately, its all part of the risk of traveling its not every time and frankly your flights will probably go on time but travel is NEVER a guarantee so don't act as if its an entitlement things can always go wrong unfortunately

Laviski

Locker10a wrote: »

Yes that's all awful and everything but you are not the only person to be disrupted ever you will be accommodated ! Look at the disruption in France today with ATC for example and what about incidents of storm ,ash , security threat , these sort of disruptions happen unfortunately, its all part of the risk of traveling its not every time and frankly your flights will probably go on time but travel is NEVER a guarantee so don't act as if its an entitlement things can always go wrong unfortunately

the point the other fella is saying being given a choice between ryanair and aer lingus. ryanair wins. I would tend to aggree, booking with aer lingus comes with extra risk as its a company that has strike noticed served multiple times on a yearly basis.

Why would people book with them considering this.

IRLConor

Laviski wrote: »

Why would people book with them considering this.

Because Ryanair isn't an option for some people. I'm only one example, but out of the 10 flying trips I took last year, only 3 could have been flown with Ryanair due to the other trips either being long haul or travelling with firearms.

People wouldn't be irritated by the ongoing nastiness between workers and management in Aer Lingus if it didn't matter to them and if they had a simple, equivalent alternative.

omega man

Things are getting ridiculous in EI and it's very frustrating for customers and likewise for many of the staff.

Cabin crew talking about the pilots 5-3 roster is laughable and im still amazed that cabin crew in EI still benchmark pilot conditions as what they should be aspiring to.

With regard to consultation on new routes, well that's another bizarre one. Crew, both pilots and cabin, should operate where they're told to as long as rosters are legal and conform to best practice with regard to fatigue risk management etc.

EI will never expand as long as the unions stand in the way of the company and the majority of staff who want to reap the benefits of such an expansion. I'm not anti union but simply prefer a realistic approach to a privately run company which has so much potential.

Still confident this won't happen but yet again the brand damage is significant.

Bessarion

omega man wrote: »

......With regard to consultation on new routes, well that's another bizarre one. Crew, both pilots and cabin, should operate where they're told to as long as rosters are legal and conform to best practice with regard to fatigue risk management etc.

........ yet again the brand damage is significant.

In relation to the point about I would agree. However only 1 of the conditions you have typed are actually happening. Legal and best practice are not the same thing. As an example; 5 body clock changes in 14 days (incl 4 minimum 12 hours turnarounds) is legal but in no way is it best practice.

Regardless of actual levels of responsibility both parties are still human beings expected to be at full physical/mental alertness when on duty. Cabin crew are not looking for parity, they are looking for some sort of stability in order to have a life outside of their place of work.

Locker10a

Bessarion wrote: »

In relation to the point about I would agree. However only 1 of the conditions you have typed are actually happening. Legal and best practice are not the same thing. As an example; 5 body clock changes in 14 days (incl 4 minimum 12 hours turnarounds) is legal but in no way is it best practice.

Regardless of actual levels of responsibility both parties are still human beings expected to be at full physical/mental alertness when on duty. Cabin crew are not looking for parity, they are looking for some sort of stability in order to have a life outside of their place of work.

That's entirely reasonable and I think its a disgrace that such things were allowed to escalate to this point when it is entirely possible to accommodate a better roster system that pleases everyone and is efficient from a cost base point of view! It is very very possible for those of you who are skeptical and its frustrating that out of bitterness and ignorance strikes like this are allowed to happen.