aer lingus Knock taxes and charges

Phil_Lives

I was looking at flights from Knock with Aer Lingus and they charge €23 euro outbound taxes and charges on a flight from Knock even though the 10 euro development levy is paid separately by passengers departing from Knock.
I thought Knock doesn't charge landing fees and their business model revoles around the development levy.
Does anyone know what those 23 euro taxes and charges are.
I'm a bit annoyed with Aer Lingus' pricing model because they keep sending mails about sale prices with up to 50% off but never on flights from Frankfurt and the flight price is tiny compared to the taxes and charges.

It seems to me that Aer Lingus ticket pricing is just as misleading as Ryanair's was at its very worst.

Locker10a

Phil_Lives wrote: »

I was looking at flights from Knock with Aer Lingus and they charge €23 euro outbound taxes and charges on a flight from Knock even though the 10 euro development levy is paid separately by passengers departing from Knock.
I thought Knock doesn't charge landing fees and their business model revoles around the development levy.
Does anyone know what those 23 euro taxes and charges are.
I'm a bit annoyed with Aer Lingus' pricing model because they keep sending mails about sale prices with up to 50% off but never on flights from Frankfurt and the flight price is tiny compared to the taxes and charges.

It seems to me that Aer Lingus ticket pricing is just as misleading as Ryanair's was at its very worst.

The 10 euro is a development fee and not an airport charge as such! It goes to developing facilities as opposed to paying for the current ones which is the charge the airlines pay! That's my understanding anyway!
RE: Frankfurt, I hear you loud and clear!! I find the same issue, I have friends there and I find its the most expensive cities to fly to in Europe! And I do it from both London and Dublin and same story! Its always more expensive than everywhere else !

There are cheap tickets to be had on aer lingus I booked recently at relatively short notice and flew home return for 60 quid! Not bad at all if you ask me! If you are flexible you will find value!

Phil_Lives

According to the pdf on knock's website the security charge is 1 euro per passenger. I don't see how Knock can be charging 22 euro per passenger to AerLingus on top of this and then asking for 10 euro from each passenger at the till.

Phil_Lives

I don't expect to be flown from knock to london for 7 euro which is what they claim on the web site but I really don't like being shown a fare of 7 euro and taxes and fees of 23euro and an additional admin fee of 7 euro and then seeing a popup for 10 euro on the following page.

Locker10a

Phil_Lives wrote: »

I don't expect to be flown from knock to london for 7 euro which is what they claim on the web site but I really don't like being shown a fare of 7 euro and taxes and fees of 23euro and an additional admin fee of 7 euro and then seeing a popup for 10 euro on the following page.

Theres lots of things I don't like too but many are out of my

Locker10a

Phil_Lives wrote: »

I don't expect to be flown from knock to london for 7 euro which is what they claim on the web site but I really don't like being shown a fare of 7 euro and taxes and fees of 23euro and an additional admin fee of 7 euro and then seeing a popup for 10 euro on the following page.

Theres lots of things I don't like too but many are out of my control and there's not much I can do but get over it and get on with it unfortunately!

Phil_Lives

I've complained to the National Consumer Agency. They probably won't run with it but clear ticket pricing is not an unreasonable expectation.

L1011

The price is given inclusive of taxes and charges, that's all the NCA will care about.

LXFlyer

Phil_Lives wrote: »

I've complained to the National Consumer Agency. They probably won't run with it but clear ticket pricing is not an unreasonable expectation.

Did you even bother to ask Aer Lingus for a breakdown first?


As MYOB posted above, there is no false advertising, as every quoted price includes the taxes and charges.

Phil_Lives

It isn't on their website. I shouldn't have to ask and even if I did they'd reply that charges paid by Aer Lingus to a private airport operator is commercially sensitive.
Frankly I don't care what they pay Knock, I just don't want them telling me that my ticket is amount X but then adding on charges which makes it 4 times X. It smacks of sharp practice.

LXFlyer

Phil_Lives wrote: »

It isn't on their website. I shouldn't have to ask and even if I did they'd reply that charges paid by Aer Lingus to a private airport operator is commercially sensitive.
Frankly I don't care what they pay Knock, I just don't want them telling me that my ticket is amount X but then adding on charges which makes it 4 times X. It smacks of sharp practice.

I don't know of any airline that gives the exact breakdown on the taxes/charges on their website for a trip, be it BA, Lufthansa, Cityjet, SAS, etc. They all just show the total.

Perhaps from your obvious extensive experience, you can advise me of one that does?

At no point (except in the detailed breakdown) do they tell you what the split between the fare and the charges is - they always quote the combined amount, which is the amount that you are actually paying, so I fail to see how you are being conned.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't know of any airline that gives the exact breakdown on the taxes/charges on their website for a trip, be it BA, Lufthansa, Cityjet, SAS, etc. They all just show the total.

United do, but that's the only one I've ever seen.

LXFlyer

MYOB wrote: »

United do, but that's the only one I've ever seen.

Which sort of proves my point - this isn't something that is exactly unusual.

circular flexing

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't know of any airline that gives the exact breakdown on the taxes/charges on their website for a trip, be it BA, Lufthansa, Cityjet, SAS, etc. They all just show the total.

BA show you the full breakdown if you click the information icon beside the amount for "Taxes, fees and carrier charges per person" on Page 2 of the booking process.

Milly33

I wish they would either close up and let Ryanair take over or start honouring their deals or the deals they advertise. Same I checked after getting an email and there are no deals.. muppets

LXFlyer

circular flexing wrote: »

BA show you the full breakdown if you click the information icon beside the amount for "Taxes, fees and carrier charges per person" on Page 2 of the booking process.

I stand corrected - but certainly every airline does not give you this information.


To be honest I'd have no objection to them doing so, but I'm still unsure as to how the OP thinks he is being misled.

Locker10a

Milly33 wrote: »

I wish they would either close up and let Ryanair take over or start honouring their deals or the deals they advertise. Same I checked after getting an email and there are no deals.. muppets

You think if Ryanair were the only airline serving Ireland there would be half the low fares there are today..... think again!
As mentioned there are low fares to be found on all airlines if you look hard enough and are flexible! I find them all the time and regularly use aer lingus!
The concept of taxes and charges is not a new one I don't understand why some people have their knickers in a twist ! Everyone else copped on to this 10 years ago and have gotten over it! Airlines are out there to make money its not charity ! Some people seem to be under the impression it is and feel this entitlement to cheap fares!

ProfessorPlum

I really don't understand what the OP's problem is. Is the complaint about the 10 euro development levy, the 23 euro taxes and charges,or the 7 euro fare (the 7 euro being the only bit of the pie that the airline get). I think there was mention in there of an admin charge of 7 euro too. Overall, I'd be delighted to pay the princely sum of 47 euro to get from knock to london.

@Milly, if you think that they are guilty of false advertising, make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority.

vevo

Locker10a wrote: »

You think if Ryanair were the only airline serving Ireland there would be half the low fares there are today..... think again!
As mentioned there are low fares to be found on all airlines if you look hard enough and are flexible! I find them all the time and regularly use aer lingus!
The concept of taxes and charges is not a new one I don't understand why some people have their knickers in a twist ! Everyone else copped on to this 10 years ago and have gotten over it! Airlines are out there to make money its not charity ! Some people seem to be under the impression it is and feel this entitlement to cheap fares!

Don't be talking such sense

arubex

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

I really don't understand what the OP's problem is. Is the complaint about the 10 euro development levy, the 23 euro taxes and charges,or the 7 euro fare (the 7 euro being the only bit of the pie that the airline get).

The OP was asking what the 23 Euros 'taxes and charges' comprise; no-one has answered that. Given that 10 Euros is paid in person at Knock airport, *what* other charges are payable that Aer Lingus are collecting?

And from a few minutes pseudo-booking on the Aer Lingus website I'm none the wiser, they don't provide a break-out of that line-item.

This is all I can find on their site:

1. The Irish Government have imposed the Air Travel Tax ( ATT ): €3 per passenger.
2. If you do not use your confirmed reservation, you will be entitled to claim a refund of any government taxes, fees and charges (excluding the fuel surcharge if applicable) which you have paid.

So implicitly they are admitting to bundling a fuel surcharge into 'taxes and charges'. What else is in that remaining 20 Euros? Not revealed.

ProfessorPlum

arubex wrote: »

The OP was asking what the 23 Euros 'taxes and charges' comprise; no-one has answered that. Given that 10 Euros is paid in person at Knock airport, *what* other charges are payable that Aer Lingus are collecting?

And from a few minutes pseudo-booking on the Aer Lingus website I'm none the wiser, they don't provide a break-out of that line-item.

This is all I can find on their site:

1. The Irish Government have imposed the Air Travel Tax ( ATT ): €3 per passenger.
2. If you do not use your confirmed reservation, you will be entitled to claim a refund of any government taxes, fees and charges (excluding the fuel surcharge if applicable) which you have paid.

So implicitly they are admitting to bundling a fuel surcharge into 'taxes and charges'. What else is in that remaining 20 Euros? Not revealed.

Ah, so the OP doesn't like paying taxes and charges - join the club!
The following link from their website explains the taxes and charges. Government charges include more than the ATT. That was a little added extra imposed specially for air travellers - much like you thought that income tax would cover everything and now you find yourself paying water tax, property tax etc. I would imagine such things as VAT would be included there. Of course knock airport will impose a charge (seperately to the development levy) and the IAA and the CAA will impose airways charges, the landing airport will have landing charges etc. it would be exhaustive to itemise everyone for every country/airport on the network. For a full breakdown the OP should email Aer Lingus, or maybe the Revenue, the IAA, the CAA, knock Airport and Gatwick.
The website does specifically say that fuel surcharge is only applied to long haul flights though.
Travelling the other way ex UK the t+c are more than double - that's because UK t+c are much higher. You have to pay these charges no matter who you travel with, like death, they are unavoidable.

http://www.aerlingus.com/i18n/en/htmlPopups/taxes_and_charges.html

LXFlyer

It may well be that the Aer Lingus website cannot currently support showing a breakdown of the charges, that's why I suggested to the OP that they contact them and simply ask, rather than having a rant and going straight to the National Consumer's Association.

The Aer Lingus website is to be relaunched later this year, so perhaps then they may include the functionality.

L1011

The €3 ATT is gone now, by the way.

Knock charges a security screening charge and a passenger fee. Gatwick charges a landing fee. That's just from thirty seconds searching, I could probably find out what every cent of the Taxs & Charges refers to. Not one cent of it is a fuel surcharge though.

edit: NOC doesn't appear to disclose what their fees are. Gatwick charges just shy of £800 for an A319 sized landing in summer peak.

roundymac

Milly33 wrote: »

I wish they would either close up and let Ryanair take over or start honouring their deals or the deals they advertise. Same I checked after getting an email and there are no deals.. muppets

Why should they close up, nothing to stop FR from flying the routes, it's what they normally do anyway, try coming down to Cork and you will see that the EI and FR flights nearly mirrior one another especially on the bucket and spade routes.Also when FR "run another airline out of town" they have a tendency to bail out themselves after a while. They did this with Wizzair in Cork and have now transferred some of the routes to Shannon.

LXFlyer

Milly33 wrote: »

I wish they would either close up and let Ryanair take over or start honouring their deals or the deals they advertise. Same I checked after getting an email and there are no deals.. muppets

Ok - you checked every single date? I find it very difficult to believe that there is no availability at all of any of the cheap fares. Just because they aren't there on dates that suit you doesn't mean that they are not available.


In practice, unless they are having an "all flights" offer, the deals are usually available on the quieter days/dates.

ProfessorPlum

I know I'm disappointed when I turn up in Lidl on a Thursday morning to find all the angle grinders for 29.99 are gone already. And I've yet to get a TV for 10 yoyos in the January sales. Such is life.

Sikpupi

I don't see why the OP is entitled to a breakdown of the Taxes.

He has been advised of the Taxes & Charges in advance and of the amount of same - so he is not being hoodwinked.

Milly33

roundymac wrote: »

Why should they close up, nothing to stop FR from flying the routes, it's what they normally do anyway, try coming down to Cork and you will see that the EI and FR flights nearly mirrior one another especially on the bucket and spade routes.Also when FR "run another airline out of town" they have a tendency to bail out themselves after a while. They did this with Wizzair in Cork and have now transferred some of the routes to Shannon.

Surprise I am in Cork and no they dont mirror themselves that's rubbish...
They might have 50% off one flight that's all I have seen..I have often watched their flights to head away from the weekend and can never see any good deals unless you book about a year in advance.. I am not saying they should do it for free but their charges and prices, when they say they are having a sale have it and drop the charges.. And stop all this crap about going on strike either go on it and stop moaning or dont..

L1011

Milly33 wrote: »

Surprise I am in Cork and no they dont mirror themselves that's rubbish...
They might have 50% off one flight that's all I have seen..I have often watched their flights to head away from the weekend and can never see any good deals unless you book about a year in advance.. I am not saying they should do it for free but their charges and prices, when they say they are having a sale have it and drop the charges.. And stop all this crap about going on strike either go on it and stop moaning or dont..

Funnily enough a quick look at Cork's departures show that when there are similar flights, Ryanair and Aer Lingus have nearly identical times... https://www.corkairport.com/gns/flight-information/departures.aspx

Booking in advance being cheaper = that's how yield management pricing works; that's how Ryanair price seats also.

The charges aren't theirs to "drop" - they have to be paid regardless. Sometimes airlines will sell seats below the cost of the charges in promotions; usually they don't.

Strikes are not the decision of the airline.

Phil_Lives

The OP, i.e. me, is free to take his custom elsewhere if he doesn't like the service provided by AerLingus which is precisely what I did last night. I booked a flight with Ryanair and unsubscribed from Aer Lingus' daft mailing list which mails me to inform of seat sales which aren't really seat sales.

Milly33

If you want to go to london

lord lucan

I think some people have unreasonable expectations when it comes to seat sales. When they advertise these sales it's often only a handful of cheaper seats on a number of flights that are reduced, not a blanket price drop across the route network.

The sales act as a driver to get people on to their sites. Once there they may not find an ultra cheap flight but may see something else at a reasonable rate and go book it.

Phil_Lives

My expectation of a seat sale is that the firm is trying to get sales in advance of quarter end when figures aren't looking great so that they hit their targets. This is how Ryanair do it. This doesn't appear to be how Aer Lingus do it.
You know whether Ryanair are doing well in a quarter based on the type and quantity of sales they are running.

christy c

Phil_Lives wrote: »

My expectation of a seat sale is that the firm is trying to get sales in advance of quarter end when figures aren't looking great so that they hit their targets.

If they have a sale in late March, the revenue is only recognized on the sales for people due to travel in March. So if you book a flight for April 1st, that doesn't get counted until Q2

bikeman1

christy c wrote: »

If they have a sale in late March, the revenue is only recognized on the sales for people due to travel in March. So if you book a flight for April 1st, that doesn't get counted until Q2

You are incorrect in that. Ryanair would recognise all sales receipts up to midnight at the end of the reporting period, regardless of when the flight is.

If a contingency is required for flight disruption / refund, then that would be put in. It is a basic accounting treatment.

bikeman1

christy c wrote: »

If they have a sale in late March, the revenue is only recognized on the sales for people due to travel in March. So if you book a flight for April 1st, that doesn't get counted until Q2

You are incorrect in that. Ryanair would recognise all sales receipts up to midnight at the end of the reporting period, regardless of when the flight is.

If a contingency is required for flight disruption / refund, then that would be put in. It is a basic accounting treatment.

Sikpupi

You are incorrect in that. Ryanair would recognise all sales receipts up to midnight at the end of the reporting period, regardless of when the flight is.
It is a basic accounting treatment.

....Not my recollection of Leaving Cert accounting. If I pay for a flight in March to travel in May - then that is not a Sale in the March accounts. In effect - that monies is 'cash in advance of carriage' and is held in effect on deposit. If there was no further cash taken in May - would that mean that there was no May sales. Where would the May costs of operating / running that seat be accounted for?? Your monthly accounts would be meaningless.

christy c

bikeman1 wrote: »

You are incorrect in that. Ryanair would recognise all sales receipts up to midnight at the end of the reporting period, regardless of when the flight is.

If a contingency is required for flight disruption / refund, then that would be put in. It is a basic accounting treatment.

Basic accounting treatment is to recognize revenue when the service has been provided, not before.

http://www.kpmg.com/Global/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/Documents/recognition-of-revenue.pdf

ProfessorPlum

So this thread has gone from 'I don't like having to pay charges' to 'I don't like how they do their sales, they should do it like Ryanair'. Seriously folks, it's a business. They will do it whatever way they want.

Phil_Lives

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

They will do it whatever way they want.

but they should pay attention to Hirschman's Exit, Voice and Loyalty thesis.

ProfessorPlum

Indeed. But the ongoing profits would suggest that all is not rotten after all.

bikeman1

christy c wrote: »

Basic accounting treatment is to recognize revenue when the service has been provided, not before.

http://www.kpmg.com/Global/en/IssuesAndInsights/ArticlesPublications/Documents/recognition-of-revenue.pdf

Sorry my bad!

Locker10a

Phil_Lives wrote: »

but they should pay attention to Hirschman's Exit, Voice and Loyalty thesis.

I don't have a problem with it and I will continue to happily fly home on cheap fares

JCX BXC

Aer Lingus often do sales on the trans-atlantic flights from shannon, advertising at €220 sometimes.

One day I was looking at a €200 sale, although their were no flights at €200, the cheapest being €220 (or so). But the return flight was around €165 (or so) so it ended up at €374 pp, which is great and cheaper than the €400 min I was expecting.

brettmirl

Here's a break down of charges on one-way Aer Lingus flight from Knock to Gatwick:


Make sure to provide the exact booking and fare codes shown.
Fare 1: Carrier EI NNFLX3 NOC to LON (rules)
Passenger type ADT, one-way fare, booking code N
Covers NOC-LGW (Economy)
€197.00
Irish Airport Security Charge (BC) €2.00
Irish Passenger Charge (UP) €7.24
EI YQ surcharge (YQ) €13.76
EI YR surcharge (YR) €15.00

Subtotal per passenger €235.00
Number of passengers x1

TOTAL AIRFARE & TAXES €235.00
This ticket is non-refundable.

Phil_Lives

when I search EI YQ an EI YR I find a thread on flyertalk where these are described as fuel surcharges and general charges.
The fuel surchage seems very high for such a short hop.

Growler!!!

Phil_Lives wrote: »

The fuel surchage seems very high for such a short hop.

The fuel cost at an airport is based on supply and demand. In this case there is not a lot of demand for fuel out of NOC. Added to that is the relative remoteness of the airport which adds to the costs of transportation. The cost of this fuel to the airline is passed onto the customer in terms of surcharges.

Where there is high demand, for example in DUB and SNN, the cost of JetA is relatively cheaper. SXL, KER and WAT JetA is a lot more expensive.

Phil_Lives

Is it not reasonable to expect that the price of the fare include the price of the fuel to get you to your desired destination. A bus doesn't have a fuel surcharge.
Also the 2 euro security charge doesn't match the 1 euro charge on Knock's website.
They can't both be right.

Growler!!!

Phil_Lives wrote: »

Is it not reasonable to expect that the price of the fare include the price of the fuel to get you to your desired destination. A bus doesn't have a fuel surcharge.

Not reasonable? Ever noticed how the cost of a bus ticket has gone up over the years? Trains too.

Just because there's not a breakdown of charges on your bus ticket doesn't mean the fuel cost isn't passed onto you.

L1011

Phil_Lives wrote: »

when I search EI YQ an EI YR I find a thread on flyertalk where these are described as fuel surcharges and general charges.
The fuel surchage seems very high for such a short hop.

There's no fuel surcharges on shorthaul. End of.

As far as I remember YQ is international general non-refundable fees and YR is international general refundable (in case of cancellation/non-flying) fees. This would be your share of the landing / parking fees at Gatwick, the passenger fee at Gatwick, etc. They are IATA codes, not airline specific codes although what each airline uses them to mean can vary.

Phil_Lives

If the company can't deliver a service at 50% of the normal cost because certain elements of the cost of supplying it are fixed then they shouldn't be running 50% off sales.