Everyone leaving

turnikett1

I'm sure I'm not the only one but it's dawned on me recently that all my friends are leaving the country, and it's starting to feel empty and a bit lonely. My sister and 6 of my friends have left Ireland to seek a new life abroad. I have 3 friends who will have left the country by November this year and one other friend who swears as soon as she finishes her course (1 year left) she is getting out of here as soon as possible. When I go to my hometown to visit my mother it's pretty sad, none of my friends are there. Just me and my ma. When I go to Galway which is where I lived for 4 years, my social circle has shrunk quite a lot and apart from one close friend, the only mates I have there are people I know and get on with but amn't really close with.

Now I live in Cork. Someone I started to become good friends with went to Australia 2 months ago. 2 more people I've gotten to know here will be gone by the end of the year. It's kind of demoralizing. I miss all my close friends because they're gone but I've accepted I have to start making new friends... but then they all go too.

I mean I can understand why. Shít weather, little opportunity, extortionate cost of living and the people that run this country, I don't even need to elaborate on that one. It's a shame because I do love Ireland but it really is a mess.

I feel like I'm going to emigrate too at some point but I don't want to be yet another immigrant who just leaves this country in the mess they found it in instead of staying behind and trying to change it, trying to fix it. I feel compelled to stay here but it doesn't look like it will go anywhere.

Am I just being cynical or what? I just want everyone to come home!

Tail Docker

Stop making friends with people - you're driving them all away. The place will be empty.

Specialun

Maybe its just you?

Mr. Incognito

I am 32, some of my friends are abroad, china, Canada, oz. most stayed. A lot came back.

Some won't. Not much to say. It's very sad to see a new generation flee the country while the government brings in policies to encourage it and pretend that the live register is going down when really emigration is the cause.

Chin up.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5qgLBrvcXo

There's still women here...

Sh1tbag OToole

The places these people seem to emigrate to are often more overpriced than Ireland. Big massive tacky overcrowded cities with mostly the same shops and the same mass produced Cheap Chinese Sh1te as here and with an extra dose of pollution thrown in.

I'd say a lot of this has more to do with getting away from home and the area where everyone knows you to play the wild rover for a few years rather than actual inability to find a job in Ireland

Santa Cruz

Unless you wish to move to Dublin you can get used to it. There are employment opportunities for graduates etc. in Dublin but rural Ireland is finished due to the loss of young people. If they get established in the UK etc. it's hard to see them returning to an employment blackspot.

Cee-Jay-Cee

turnikett1 wrote: »

I feel like I'm going to emigrate too at some point but I don't want to be yet another immigrant who just leaves this country in the mess they found it in instead of staying behind and trying to change it, trying to fix it. I feel compelled to stay here....

I think you should go too. You sound like a right miserable sod.

catallus

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I........

Some won't. Not much to say. It's very sad to see a new generation flee the country while the government brings in policies to encourage it and pretend that the live register is going down when really emigration is the cause.

Chin up.

What is this knee-jerk reaction of blaming the government for everything when it is clearly the money-owners who are hoarding capital and preventing job-creation?

Down with this sort of thing.

As for the OP, we are a small open economy, it is only natural that many people will take advantage of easy global travel to follow their careers. It may not be good for our society, but the cult of the individual reigns supreme.

SaveOurLyric

catallus wrote: »

What is this knee-jerk reaction of blaming the government for everything when it is clearly the money-owners who are hoarding capital and preventing job-creation?

What is it with the knee-jerk reaction of blaming the money-owners for everything ? They can do what they like with their money. Hoard it if they wish. They certainly aren't obliged to spend it to create jobs for others.

Mr. Incognito

catallus wrote: »

What is this knee-jerk reaction of blaming the government for everything when it is clearly the money-owners who are hoarding capital and preventing job-creation?

Down with this sort of thing.

As for the OP, we are a small open economy, it is only natural that many people will take advantage of easy global travel to follow their careers. It may not be good for our society, but the cult of the individual reigns supreme.

Reduced dole to under 25s.

Removal of back to education waiver of fees for college for over 23s

Job bridge to suck real minimum wage jobs out of the economy to massage unemployment figures. Knowledge of exploitation leads to them doubling the term to 18 months.

No reform of fas despite various scandals. A simple example is that fs cannot provide cvs to employers as they are not registered as an employment agency. I find this shocking. If an employer contacts fas looking for 200 employees fas only direct them to post an ad. Wasters.

No one is hoarding anything. There are no jobs or incentives to create jobs.

Real initiates could include;

Pick five core industry areas and pump resources to them. Renewable energy, agri services, technology, software, medi and pharma come to mind. Greater links between colleges and multinationals leading to practical work experience and placements,

Filter job bridge so only real skilled jobs get there

Really reform fas so that it works like a recruitment agency with incentives for staff.

Real reform of the public service. Remove permanent contracts and fire surplus staff and pay a decent wage to frontline staff.

Jesus ANYTHING but empty rhetoric while people with eduction and brains take off

catallus

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

What is it with the knee-jerk reaction of blaming the money-owners for everything ? They can do what they like with their money. Hoard it if they wish. They certainly aren't obliged to spend it to create jobs for others.

If you believe that those who make their fortunes on the backs of others and refuse to re-invest it are blameless for unemployment then you are truly lost in in an abyss of capitulation to demands of the elites.

Why should a man love his fetters, though they be made of gold?

donegal__road

on the road I live on, everyone between the ages of 21 and 40 have left the country in the last 5 years. I play music, and most nights Im out playing there is a going away party, for the last 3-4 years at least.

KyussBishop

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Real initiates could include;

Pick five core industry areas and pump resources to them. Renewable energy, agri services, technology, software, medi and pharma come to mind. Greater links between colleges and multinationals leading to practical work experience mad placements,

Filter job bridge so only real skilled jobs get there

Really reform fas so that it works like a recruitment agency with incentives for staff.

Real reform of the public service. Remove permanent contracts and fire surplus staff and py a decent wage to frontline staff.

Jesus ANYTHING but empty rhetoric while people with eduction and brains take off

Even given those reforms, it'd be like trying to bail out water from the Titanic with a teacup.

Unless huge amounts of money are gained from somewhere, to invest in worthwhile projects (something the private sector has no interest in right now, leaving only government as the last potential), then we're still on the way down.

There are ways to get access to adequate funding, just no political desire to go anywhere near the required polices.

Strumms

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

The places these people seem to emigrate to are often more overpriced than Ireland. Big massive tacky overcrowded cities with mostly the same shops and the same mass produced Cheap Chinese Sh1te as here and with an extra dose of pollution thrown in.

I'd say a lot of this has more to do with getting away from home and the area where everyone knows you to play the wild rover for a few years rather than actual inability to find a job in Ireland

Mis-informed BS doesn't even start to cover it.

The country is still in a jocker. There are now jobs out there for graduates. People are leaving out of necessity rather then choice. They are leaving to seek opertunity and a lively hood. Forced to do so with the gun of FF government mismanagement pointed into the small of their backs. In boom times we saw people staying. Ireland is a great country and a great place to live if you have a job and a life. Unforunately the actions and non actions of the self serving so call public servants who come to power are driving people away en masse. The gathering my hole.

KyussBishop

Just a statistic worth repeating in every thread like this, to nip certain debates in the bud: 28 unemployed people per job vacancy
http://www.nerinstitute.net/imglibrary/2014/01/201401211508391.jpg
http://www.nerinstitute.net/blog/2014/01/21/over-28-unemployed-people-for-each-vacancy-in-the/

Isolt

My three closest friends moved away in the last year. Two to London and one to Thailand.

maryishere

its nice to leave for a few years but its nice to come back too.

The economy is badly run here but its still a beautiful country. Plus family is important.

blackbaron

I left Ireland and I've no intention of ever returning. I didn't leave out of necessity, I had a good career with good future prospects and I know many in similar situations who left also. Taking a high level view of it, it would appear that those working in "blue collar" jobs such as in construction, or very low/essentially no skilled work such as retail sales are those who left out of necessity, while those in professional "white collar" positions are leaving out of choice.

I left because I was sick of Irish society and Irish politics and their attitude towards the Irish taxpayer. Roughly 2.3m people living out of the pockets of 2.2m revenue generators, and the consistent message from those 2.3m people (excluding the children obviously) is "We deserve MORE from the taxpayer. Give us MORE from them, we're ENTITLED to it" and we've parties full of unqualified, gombeen politicians who regularly come out and promise these people more handouts from the taxpayer's pockets so long as they get their votes.

There's no escaping it. I'm a young, driven person and there's simply no way I'm going to stay and try to succeed in a country where there's 2.3m people demanding more of a cut of that financial success by the day. We've had the taxes raised and "temporary" measures such as USC brought in to try and bring stability to the country, while the taxpayer pays for the mistakes of the previous government and their supporters, and when things are looking like they're getting better do the government try to reward the taxpayer for their hard work? No. Ireland is out of the Troika agreement, which USC was put in place for, and now instead of trying to scale back the tax a bit, the Irish government is promising MORE handouts in the form of free GP visits to children and "universal" health insurance.

You pay an effective rate of 54% on income over 32k. After paying this, you then pay some of the highest prices in Europe for leisure activities (eating out, going to a hotel, having a few beers, etc.). You'd like to buy a house? Well, you'll pay some of the highest prices in Europe and pay a huge chunk of tax every year on that "privilege" you enjoy. Want to run a car? Well, welcome to some of the highest costs and taxes in Europe. Oh, and remember, if that house gets broken into don't expect the Gardai to help, they're being put to use now as a branch of the Revenue service enforcing taxes on our roads. You want to go for a few drinks in Dublin City Centre in the evening? Well, just watch your stuff - there's huge numbers of desperate junkies roaming, pick pockets, muggers and people looking for violent encounters roaming around, whose life you're already paying for at work, and we simply haven't the Gardai to deal with actual crime. Let's focus on collecting those taxes!

They demand we, and our employers, pay for PRSI in the event we become unemployed and when we do become unemployed? Well, if you've personal savings then you can forget about that INSURANCE that you've just been paying for, as the guy with €400k saved recently found out.

There is no incentive to succeed in Ireland and we're seeing its effects en masse now - Ireland is producing almost no research of note and it is producing no entrepreneurs or innovation of note. The only innovation we've seen recently has been from Stripe and they correctly upped sticks and moved to San Francisco as there is essentially no hope for a young tech company in Ireland.

So what is there to stick around for? I can enjoy a far higher standard of living almost anywhere else in the western world, why should young people who want to do well in life stay on that tiny island with consistently terrible weather, where they hand out their earned money hand over fist to a bunch of people who'll only demand more of it or begrudge them for having it in the first place?

Ireland is a write off for the young and mobile, its employment is currently only strapped up by large MNCs who are there for tax purposes, and I hope many others realise this and leave rather than sticking around trying to repair the damage caused by previous generations.

/rant

Sky King

I hear ya OP. All my friends are gone. It's depressing.

those who make their fortunes on the backs of others

I don't understand this. Business owners pay their staff for the work they do. The staff have the option not to do it. In fact, they even have the option to not work at all and get free money from people who are earning it.

token101

Strumms wrote: »

People are leaving out of necessity rather then choice. They are leaving to seek opertunity and a lively hood. Forced to do so with the gun of FF government mismanagement pointed into the small of their backs. In boom times we saw people staying. Ireland is a great country and a great place to live if you have a job and a life. Unforunately the actions and non actions of the self serving so call public servants who come to power are driving people away en masse. The gathering my hole.

The gun of FF pointed at their backs :pac:

Sh1tbag OToole

token101 wrote: »

The gun of FF pointed at their backs :pac:

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/nov2011/willie_odea.jpg

arctan

I'm leaving to better myself, 26 and have a decent IT technician job, but with zero progression for the next 3 or 4 years ...

taking a step down to get my foot in the door to an Engineers role in the UK, which I know I will enjoy and would have zero chance of getting in Ireland ... job opportunities do arise in the sector in Ireland, but minimum requirements last time were 2.1 Hons Degree, & 2 years experience.... I'll be in an accredited training program designed for this role and getting paid for it along the way.

My plan is to work my way up to Engineer, possibly further, and if said role comes up in Ireland again, to go for it.

However, as much as I'll miss Ireland and my friends and that, if I start creating a better more fufilling life, I'll find it hard to come back

carzony

I know so many people who are finishing college courses and then plan to move straight away.

As far as I can see Ireland has nothing to offer atm.






KIP!!!!!!!!

diomed

Why do people in Ireland think it is strange for people to work abroad for a few years? I did, and my three brothers did. We all returned and settled in Ireland.
You gain experience, which must be good for the Irish economy.

mickydoomsux

Back in the Celtic Tiger this was called "going travelling" and was considered the best thing a young person could do.

arctan

they have the pick of the bunch of who are left here...

everything is:
-get a degree
-get a grad job
-get good money

unfortunately, continuous classroom learning doesn't work for everyone. everyone aren't academics

there needs to be in place training programs by these multi-national corporations, or goverment funded tainiee-ships to feed them

just like what we had in the construction boom, apprenticeships in all trades, why not tranfer that framework into other career paths
-coding
-IT work
-Telecoms
-Electronics & Automation

plenty of people willing to work in Ireland, who aren't academics (not knocking it at all, I'm a much better hands on learner than someone who studies from books), there needs to be programs with a good chance of employment at the end of them in needed sectors for the non academic

KyussBishop

Where is the evidence that a significant number of (lets say majority) of these people coming back?

rockbeast

arctan wrote: »

I'm leaving to better myself, 26 and have a decent IT technician job, but with zero progression for the next 3 or 4 years ...

taking a step down to get my foot in the door to an Engineers role in the UK, which I know I will enjoy and would have zero chance of getting in Ireland ... job opportunities do arise in the sector in Ireland, but minimum requirements last time were 2.1 Hons Degree, & 2 years experience.... I'll be in an accredited training program designed for this role and getting paid for it along the way.

My plan is to work my way up to Engineer, possibly further, and if said role comes up in Ireland again, to go for it.

However, as much as I'll miss Ireland and my friends and that, if I start creating a better more fufilling life, I'll find it hard to come back

Why would you limit yourself by stating this?

Anyway, at 26, you should be doing what you want and not what you have to.

Mr. Incognito

blackbaron wrote: »

I left Ireland and I've no intention of ever returning. I didn't leave out of necessity, I had a good career with good future prospects and I know many in similar situations who left also. Taking a high level view of it, it would appear that those working in "blue collar" jobs such as in construction, or very low/essentially no skilled work such as retail sales are those who left out of necessity, while those in professional "white collar" positions are leaving out of choice.

I left because I was sick of Irish society and Irish politics and their attitude towards the Irish taxpayer. Roughly 2.3m people living out of the pockets of 2.2m revenue generators, and the consistent message from those 2.3m people (excluding the children obviously) is "We deserve MORE from the taxpayer. Give us MORE from them, we're ENTITLED to it" and we've parties full of unqualified, gombeen politicians who regularly come out and promise these people more handouts from the taxpayer's pockets so long as they get their votes.

There's no escaping it. I'm a young, driven person and there's simply no way I'm going to stay and try to succeed in a country where there's 2.3m people demanding more of a cut of that financial success by the day. We've had the taxes raised and "temporary" measures such as USC brought in to try and bring stability to the country, while the taxpayer pays for the mistakes of the previous government and their supporters, and when things are looking like they're getting better do the government try to reward the taxpayer for their hard work? No. Ireland is out of the Troika agreement, which USC was put in place for, and now instead of trying to scale back the tax a bit, the Irish government is promising MORE handouts in the form of free GP visits to children and "universal" health insurance.

You pay an effective rate of 54% on income over 32k. After paying this, you then pay some of the highest prices in Europe for leisure activities (eating out, going to a hotel, having a few beers, etc.). You'd like to buy a house? Well, you'll pay some of the highest prices in Europe and pay a huge chunk of tax every year on that "privilege" you enjoy. Want to run a car? Well, welcome to some of the highest costs and taxes in Europe. Oh, and remember, if that house gets broken into don't expect the Gardai to help, they're being put to use now as a branch of the Revenue service enforcing taxes on our roads. You want to go for a few drinks in Dublin City Centre in the evening? Well, just watch your stuff - there's huge numbers of desperate junkies roaming, pick pockets, muggers and people looking for violent encounters roaming around, whose life you're already paying for at work, and we simply haven't the Gardai to deal with actual crime. Let's focus on collecting those taxes!

They demand we, and our employers, pay for PRSI in the event we become unemployed and when we do become unemployed? Well, if you've personal savings then you can forget about that INSURANCE that you've just been paying for, as the guy with €400k saved recently found out.

There is no incentive to succeed in Ireland and we're seeing its effects en masse now - Ireland is producing almost no research of note and it is producing no entrepreneurs or innovation of note. The only innovation we've seen recently has been from Stripe and they correctly upped sticks and moved to San Francisco as there is essentially no hope for a young tech company in Ireland.

So what is there to stick around for? I can enjoy a far higher standard of living almost anywhere else in the western world, why should young people who want to do well in life stay on that tiny island with consistently terrible weather, where they hand out their earned money hand over fist to a bunch of people who'll only demand more of it or begrudge them for having it in the first place?

Ireland is a write off for the young and mobile, its employment is currently only strapped up by large MNCs who are there for tax purposes, and I hope many others realise this and leave rather than sticking around trying to repair the damage caused by previous generations.

/rant

This is an excellent articulate post and I agree with a lot of what you say but I want to stay and work towards a better Ireland rather than abandon ship.

Ireland is changing, albeit slowly. I still have hope for us here.

eviltwin

I know how you feel OP, all my family emigrated, my husband and mother in law are the only ones in his family still here, we've seen a lot of friends and colleagues leave. I do feel lucky we're able to stay and there is Skype and so on but its not the same.

titan18

It's either emigrate or move to Dublin. Very few people seem to be staying where they grew up

arctan

rockbeast wrote: »

Why would you limit yourself by stating this?

Anyway, at 26, you should be doing what you want and not what you have to.

it's not and hasn't, but in the sector I'm in, it's as far as I can go atm within my current company and competitors without having a degree, and they are not willing to train me up in house, or any training at all for that matter.

my options were, to get the degree at my own accord and time (3-4years)
doing the same or similar job with little budge of pay.

or

go to the UK, take a pay cut for 18 months, get put through an internationally recognised training program in a bigger company. after two years qualify as engineer, and if I want, get sent onto do IET exams for chartered engineer status... timeframe circa 3 years with pay back up to the scale I was at in Ireland after 18 months

Red Pepper

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Unless you wish to move to Dublin you can get used to it. There are employment opportunities for graduates etc. in Dublin but rural Ireland is finished due to the loss of young people. If they get established in the UK etc. it's hard to see them returning to an employment blackspot.

Nonsense, technology is making remote working easier all the time.

rockbeast

arctan wrote: »

it's not and hasn't, but in the sector I'm in, it's as far as I can go atm within my current company and competitors without having a degree, and they are not willing to train me up in house, or any training at all for that matter.

my options were, to get the degree at my own accord and time (3-4years)
doing the same or similar job with little budge of pay.

or

go to the UK, take a pay cut for 18 months, get put through an internationally recognised training program in a bigger company. after two years qualify as engineer, and if I want, get sent onto do IET exams for chartered engineer status... timeframe circa 3 years with pay back up to the scale I was at in Ireland after 18 months

Fair enough, sounds like you've made your mind up on UK. I don't doubt you're right.

Good luck over there:)

LordSutch

turnikett1 wrote: »

I'm sure I'm not the only one but it's dawned on me recently that all my friends are leaving the country, and it's starting to feel empty and a bit lonely.

Been there done that in the mid 80s when threre was a similar exodus from these shores.
(Dun Laoghaire to London Euston, Via Holyhead) on a one way ticket . . .

I came back, most didn't.

The UK England is home to many Irish people who have settled in & done very well over the decades & centuries.

UCDVet

Red Pepper wrote: »

Nonsense, technology is making remote working easier all the time.

Most of the time though, it's not a technological problem. For generic office worker types - there isn't really any work that you couldn't have done remotely in the 90s on a dial up.

The problem is more to do with trust. Lots of managers don't trust employees to actually *work* when they are home. I've personally seen lots of people who stayed home and didn't actually work when they were WFH. After getting burned once or twice, most companies don't see the value. Plenty of locals, plus hey, they can always bring in another immigrant.

Particularly entry level type positions.

// Would like to work from home

FalconGirl

One brother going to Canada in November, another to NYC in 2 weeks. Ill be going to Canada as well when I finish my degree. Ireland is a political and economic wasteland and its becoming apparent to me more than ever that we are screwed. Standards of living are declining as evidenced by a friend who was made wait 18 hours in the Mater hospital with possible bleeding on the brain while junkies were being processed quicker than him. Unacceptable for a man who contributes to society and pays his taxes.

Money has been sucked out of the health system. Continued corruption, cronyism, quangos, future living standards, cute hoorism, taxation with nothing in return are all reasons why i want to leave.

Ive noticed a huge change in Dublin City Centre where there are huge numbers of foreign students and workers and not so many Irish. A great country that has been ruined by the actions of so few.

GalwayGuy2

catallus wrote: »

If you believe that those who make their fortunes on the backs of others and refuse to re-invest it are blameless for unemployment then you are truly lost in in an abyss of capitulation to demands of the elites.

Why should a man love his fetters, though they be made of gold?

*Cringe*

anto9

I left too ,to a far off shore.Will the last person to stay please turn off the lights lol.Dublin my home City now feels foreign when i go back .I do like to return for holidays when i can afford it about every 2 years .

mickydoomsux

titan18 wrote: »

It's either emigrate or move to Dublin

No it isn't. There's plenty of work around for people who are actually willing to look for it.

Typical Irish attitude, go straight for the nuclear option if everything isn't handed to you on a plate.

titan18

mickydoomsux wrote: »

No it isn't. There's plenty of work around for people who are actually willing to look for it.

Typical Irish attitude, go straight for the nuclear option if everything isn't handed to you on a plate.

Meh,I'm working atm, but then most of my friends have gone to Dublin or left. Most of the jobs are there

mickydoomsux

titan18 wrote: »

Meh,I'm working atm, but then most of my friends have gone to Dublin or left. Most of the jobs are there

Of course most of the jobs are there what with it being the main population centre of the country by far. Logical stuff.

However, saying that the only option is to go there for a job or just leave the country is silly.

titan18

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Of course most of the jobs are there what with it being the main population centre of the country by far. Logical stuff.

However, saying that the only option is to go there for a job or just leave the country is silly.

Is that not just a stupid cycle, where most of the people are there, so most of the jobs go there, meaning places that don't get the jobs just have more people leaving to go to Dublin.

About 90% of my college class are gone to Dublin or left the country.

SCOOP 64

mickydoomsux wrote: »

No it isn't. There's plenty of work around for people who are actually willing to look for it.

Typical Irish attitude, go straight for the nuclear option if everything isn't handed to you on a plate.

REALLY ????

Kitty6277

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Unless you wish to move to Dublin you can get used to it. There are employment opportunities for graduates etc. in Dublin but rural Ireland is finished due to the loss of young people. If they get established in the UK etc. it's hard to see them returning to an employment blackspot.

I think everywhere outside Dublin is considered "rural Ireland" at this stage:rolleyes:

mickydoomsux

titan18 wrote: »

Is that not just a stupid cycle, where most of the people are there, so most of the jobs go there, meaning places that don't get the jobs just have more people leaving to go to Dublin.

This happens in every country.

KyussBishop

mickydoomsux wrote: »

No it isn't. There's plenty of work around for people who are actually willing to look for it.

Typical Irish attitude, go straight for the nuclear option if everything isn't handed to you on a plate.

No, there is not enough work to go around:

KyussBishop wrote: »

Just a statistic worth repeating in every thread like this, to nip certain debates in the bud: 28 unemployed people per job vacancy
http://www.nerinstitute.net/imglibrary/2014/01/201401211508391.jpg
http://www.nerinstitute.net/blog/2014/01/21/over-28-unemployed-people-for-each-vacancy-in-the/

It's right there at the top of the second page - and I remember addressing the same myth from you before as well in other threads.