Irish Independent article on racism against Irish

seachto7

http://m.independent.ie/opinion/why-is-it-ok-to-be-racist-to-the-irish-down-under-30260579.html

No doubt a few of you will probably disagree with this.

laoisforliam

Cant say it has been my experience in Australia

Zambia

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/why-is-it-ok-to-be-racist-to-the-irish-down-under-30260579.html

Article accusing The Age of racism against the Irish. I would say the tem "Paddy" in the original article was stupid and the Independent makes a good piont. If a Maltese bloke did this the article would not read. "WOG destroys hotel".

I mean if someone said to me "Listen here Paddy" the result is never going to be good.

I have had the old "I was born here, where did you come from/When did you arrive/Other Bogan crap"

In all cases the person has wanted something of me and in all cases this language does not further their cause it brings the conversation to a halt. They have nailed their colours to the mast head so they can sit there under them.

However this is the exception rather than the norm.

Cooperspale

seachto7 wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/opinion/why-is-it-ok-to-be-racist-to-the-irish-down-under-30260579.html

No doubt a few of you will probably disagree with this.

Great article; he makes some valid points. My Australian partner totally nodded in agreement re: the Th part. Aussies love ridiculing that & find it endlessly entertaining. Though I have experienced & witnessed similar in the UK during my college years.
The Australian in my house argued that so many Australians are from Irish descendants that they don't find it derogatory. .?. This is such an Australian answer.
I've let it wash in the past; I worked in a professional environment in Cairns (if there is such a thing) where I was called Irish (they refused to use my first name) for 3 months, mind you I didn't have high expectations of my colleagues going in there in the first place.

These days depending on the day & mood I'm in, ( I generally get it from some drug addled asshole ) I'll either ignore it or tell whoever it is to get the fck out of my shop before I call the cops.

hussey

I used to work for a pretty famous finance house and for st Patricks day they (or is it dey) decided to host a 'funniest Irish accent' competition and wanted me to judge it, I refused on the grounds that they would never host a funniest Indian or Chinese accent competition. But another Irish guy judged it 'sure it's only a laugh' was his reason.
I regret not going to HR

jank

Name and shame tbh with the above. Business's care about their reputation in the public eye.

seachto7

I just find it disappointing that a newspaper would take an editorial decision to print that kind of crap. (The Age).

You would have thought they would know better at this stage.

I also think the "shur it's only a laugh" thing is a cop out.

I often wonder if an Irish trait was to wear long robes and funny hats instead of being able to blend in so to speak, would we get more stick than we do.

It would be interesting to get the opinions of high profile Irish in Australia, in business or sport. People such as Tadhg Kennelly etc, or the singer from Karnivool, who was born in Ireland if I'm not mistaken.

JONJO THE MISER

In no other western country would a headline like that be tolerated or allowed, says it all really.

statina

I work with all Aussies and get the absolute piss taken out of me over my accent, I get the whole "turty tree and a turd" thing quite regularly- I take it as banter but Jesus it can get annoying after a while!

Legend100

statina wrote: »

I work with all Aussies and get the absolute piss taken out of me over my accent, I get the whole "turty tree and a turd" thing quite regularly- I take it as banter but Jesus it can get annoying after a while!

When this happens I usually hit back with "I preshhuume/asshhume the Australian conshhumer will go shopping shoon (throw this in for good measure)

.....needless to say it usually doesn't go down well unless they are good banter

A_Sober_Paddy

From my experience Australia is the most racist place I've ever been, didn't see much racism directed towards the Irish. But the amount directed towards the Aboriginals and people of Asia descent in public was beyond a disgrace...

A_Sober_Paddy

statina wrote: »

I work with all Aussies and get the absolute piss taken out of me over my accent, I get the whole "turty tree and a turd" thing quite regularly- I take it as banter but Jesus it can get annoying after a while!

That "turty" one really annoyed me and nearly lead to me punching a work colleague when I worked in oz

truthteller

Ah sure the Aussies are generally good decent simple folk who just enjoy a bit of banter, they've only been on their continent for a short while and thus immigrants themselves in reality.

Imagine out in outback things are different but only found my accent a blessing out there with the ladies especially in the urban areas, as good as gold.

guitarzero

Credit where it's due, that goes for jibes, mockery and slaggings as well. It's a part of our culture to slag ppl off, it shows that we are full of resentment but cloak it in comedy as best we can. So why not let the aussies at it? We have given ourselves a woeful name down there and I dont think a bit of slagging is any major harm. What that mantra we're always throwing around - lighten' up wil yehhh.

Slideways

I'm all on for a slagging with MATES but it's when someone you don't know or barely know starts it then it gets my goat up.

The turty tree thing annoys me as I don't do that. For some unknown reason I pronounce my th's

The worst offender I have me here was a guy with Moore as a surname. His parents were from Scotland but he claimed he was a true blue occa Aussie. I informed him in front of a load of his cronies that he was a bastardised Australian with a mongrel pedigree.. Not a happy chappy after that but the jibes stopped

sin_city

I have to say that most Aussies are fine and I generally forget I'm in a different country most of the time however every now and then you get the impression that someone thinks your an idiot because of the accent.

Also, don't take the p!ss of yourself too much like you might back home with your mates....Some Aussies sometimes see this as dumb Paddys.

Having said all of the above we've got a lot more in common with Australians than we don't

commited

Not my experience at all, but then again I don't have a particularly strong Irish accent I guess and I'm not a "tradie". Most Aussies have been positive about our accents and I probably rip the p1ss out of it more than they do. To me, it reads like another typical Irish-chip-on-the-shoulder article - woah is us, poor little country etc etc. The Irish papers have the same ability to have articles with subtle racism, especially within "opinion" pieces in regional and national papers, some even making it onto the front page.

Also, a huge proportion of the article is dedicated to citing one individual sent to Alan Joyce as a representation of the Australian attitude to irish is an absolute disgrace.

seachto7

commited wrote: »

Not my experience at all, but then again I don't have a particularly strong Irish accent I guess and I'm not a "tradie". Most Aussies have been positive about our accents and I probably rip the p1ss out of it more than they do. To me, it reads like another typical Irish-chip-on-the-shoulder article - woah is us, poor little country etc etc. The Irish papers have the same ability to have articles with subtle racism, especially within "opinion" pieces in regional and national papers, some even making it onto the front page.

Also, a huge proportion of the article is dedicated to citing one individual sent to Alan Joyce as a representation of the Australian attitude to irish is an absolute disgrace.

Chip on the shoulder? So it's ok then?

Anyone with half a brain would know that "Paddy" in the headline is going to end up as a play on words. Unless you yourself like to think of the Irish as "Paddys"..

Post up some links of similar Irish articles.

AngryHippie

I think that the article was fairly typical of the trashy effort at reporting that most aussie rags have. To be fair their standard of printed media is sh1thouse. They don't have newspaper worth buying.

I don't think it is representative of Australian opinions regarding the Irish in particular, nor is it a measure of their "racism" rather their laid back attitude regarding public discourse (You can say what you feel without any major dramas usually) and their low expectations from printed media (they are neither surprised nor outraged by this sort of sh1te)

catbear

Australian media can be extremely uniformed, a year ago when there was a lot of 457 coverage one paper reported that these jobs were for manual labour.

I personally haven't received any abuse for being Irish but I've heard plenty abuse towards aboriginals.

AngryHippie

Its a horrible part of the human condition, but it most definitely exists in all of us. I'll admit to finding some other cultures pretty offensive to my tastes and standards, and I also have suspicions about some religious movements and so by default races. This makes me racist. By nature. By nurture, I keep my mouth shut about it, I don't express these opinions often, or incite any hatred where possible, aside from the occasional outburst, which I inevitably hate myself for.
I try not to judge people too harshly for expressing similar opinions though, after all, everyone has an opinion, and is entitled to one. Freedom of expression and freedom of the press is still a worthwhile pursuit, as is the freedom to blast sources of ignorant and insidious tripe when they are identified.
It's the same the world over, and always has been.
For the sake of some whataboutery, how many times did you see an Irish gob****e abuse someone for being from Poland or Romania etc. or worse, to say it to the people they are with, out of earshot, to incite the same sort of hatred from others.... I've heard plenty of it, all over the world (Half the continents by now at least) It's a natural phenomenon, and not one that we are going to be able to control or extinguish.

We have a right to prevent it in the press though. Through the court system, and where it is identified, the relevant media should be hammered for it. They are supposed to maintain professional standards of writing and journalism. Printing that headline should have someone sacked. end of.

Snake

If someone in austrilla called me paddy id ****ing deck the wanker.

catbear

GrayFox208 wrote: »

If someone in austrilla called me paddy id ****ing deck the wanker.

None of them are worth it.

AngryHippie

GrayFox208 wrote: »

If someone in austrilla called me paddy id ****ing deck the wanker.

Yeah right you would.

A 6ft 4 Maori boy calls you paddy and you're gonna deck him ?
A Lebanese bloke with his ten mates calls you paddy you're gonna deck him?
A big Mining town Ocker calls you paddy and you're gonna deck him ?

You'll be a little fish in a real big pond over here, and you'll be a pretty sore fish if you don't learn how to deal with folks without "decking" them.

Ask any of the hundreds of "hard men" that have had their wings clipped over here and they'll let you know.:rolleyes:

Snake

AngryHippie wrote: »

Yeah right you would.

A 6ft 4 Maori boy calls you paddy and you're gonna deck him ?
A Lebanese bloke with his ten mates calls you paddy you're gonna deck him?
A big Mining town Ocker calls you paddy and you're gonna deck him ?

You'll be a little fish in a real big pond over here, and you'll be a pretty sore fish if you don't learn how to deal with folks without "decking" them.

Ask any of the hundreds of "hard men" that have had their wings clipped over here and they'll let you know.:rolleyes:

I really couldn't care less. No one over here would do it and I wouldn't let some Ozzie prick do it either

Slideways

GrayFox208 wrote: »

I really couldn't care less. No one over here would do it and I wouldn't let some Ozzie prick do it either

Kermit.de.frog

The boom is back. You should all come home to safety.

catbear

GrayFox208 wrote: »

I really couldn't care less. No one over here would do it and I wouldn't let some Ozzie prick do it either

Witnessed it in former Irish workplaces, british and polish workers being taunted for no reason and then told it's only a bit of messing when they complained about it.
At least this guy won his discrimination case:

The man, identified as 'Mr C', worked for an engineering company on a Dublin building site, where he claimed, other workers would sing anti-British Irish rebel songs and ignore him.
On some occasions, whenever staff had to enter dangerous spaces, they would say "send the Brits in".
Negative reports about England, such as a story about a nuclear plant in Sellafield, or the performance of the English football team during the World Cup in Germany were also read out in his presence.
The man, who requested anonymity, told an Equality Tribunal that shortly after joining the firm in April 2006, the abuse reached a point where he would take his lunch in his car instead of the canteen.

I was actually tauntingly called a tan by a bunch of irish heros on a worksite once because I said didn't mind working with Poles.

purcela

Just back from a meeting with a colleague who is of Asian heritage. I mentioned I am going back to Ireland for a visit shortly and she asked am I going to load up on Guinness and potatoes while I'm there, because all Irish people eat is potatoes and potatoes and potatoes, while her colleague sitting nearby who is also of Asian descent laughed away at her "joke".

I don't think there would have been any laughter had I asked them if they only eat noodles and rice.

AngryHippie

Hit them up with a "harharhar, me so fanny, me eaty nooder rong time" or "at least I'll be in a country with people who know how to drive"

The trick is to do it straight away. Do it in a weeks time and you'll be a dick.:( Do it immediately and its banter.:D

A lot of people take life too seriously around here, from getting hospitalised for trying to beat up a maori:pac: to getting sacked for taking the piss out of asians:P. It's a minefield if you are going to take **** to heart. If you are offended, point it out at the time. If you are upset, fire back at the time.

The reason they don't understand how offensively some people take it is because most people don't.

catbear

I sometimes slag off English by saying they're still sore about bronze age Ireland dragging them out of the stone age!

seachto7

purcela wrote: »

Just back from a meeting with a colleague who is of Asian heritage. I mentioned I am going back to Ireland for a visit shortly and she asked am I going to load up on Guinness and potatoes while I'm there, because all Irish people eat is potatoes and potatoes and potatoes, while her colleague sitting nearby who is also of Asian descent laughed away at her "joke".

I don't think there would have been any laughter had I asked them if they only eat noodles and rice.

You should have turned the tables on them and said it. "How would you like it...."

pa_

If you get slagged in Australia it's usually by someone with an inferiority complex. If you get wound up about it you might have an inferiority complex too. The best thing to do to an idiot is ignore them. The fact is that the Irish accent is generally accepted as being pretty appealing by most English speakers.

If it's a good natured or teasing slag - even if poorly executed or a bad joke then it means that they probably like you. If you get upset you are saying that you aren't comfortable with that person. Which is fair enough if they regularly make embarrasing jokes.

jackbhoy

Racism certainly exists here (as it does most places) but never felt I was racially abused tbh.

Imo most of this is about Aussies thinking we don't take ourselves too seriously and can take a bit of slagging, in vast majority of cases I doubt there is any real racist thought behind it.

I used to work with a Dutch guy in Dublin and lads I worked with always asked him to say "toight like a toiger", same with Kiwi guy who they used to call "fush and chups". It was funny first time but then just got old and annoying pretty quickly. Seems similar to me, no racist intent just immaturity and lack of wit.

Also, I work for a large Aussie company with 50k+ employees and there are loads of Irish people in senior leadership positions throughout the company. I was in a conference call today with Directors and GMs and 3 out of 5 of them were Irish. I think if we really had an ingrained racism towards Irish people here we wouldn't be allowed to excel in as many areas as we do. (Using the royal "we" there )

seachto7

Would like to hear experiences of "minorities" (Irish included) working in the media in Aus.

res ipsa

seachto7 wrote: »

Would like to hear experiences of "minorities" (Irish included) working in the media in Aus.

Jill Meager worked for ABC.

The Aussie

res ipsa wrote: »

Jill Meager worked for ABC.

Ah now come here, what level of stupidity are you even attempting with a moronic comment like that, seriously come back and explain it...

Dats_rite

res ipsa wrote: »

Jill Meager worked for ABC.

Crazy comment

mandrake04

Idiotic comment

Zambia

res ipsa wrote: »

Jill Meager worked for ABC.

banned for a week, seriously wtf. Seek help

Diamondmaker

People need to see Bogan Hunters, Fat Pizza, Housos and some of the other crap TV. The latter 2 take the piss out of Wogs, Kiwis and Asians..and all 3 the Ocker Bogan Ozzie. These shows are on SBS too, not the other crap commercial stations.

Its just in the nature to do this, we would have no problem making shows taking the piss out of ourselves, in fact we do this quite well, and perhaps this is why we get these jibes, cos we sure as hell export a lot of content that takes the mick out of ourselves. But I dont recall an Irish TV show where we play on "racist" foriegn sterotypes, we would only take this out of ourselves like Ms Brown ****e and Fr Ted..correct me if Im wrong.

however you expect more in the "proper" newspapers, the Age is not the COurier Mail and the headline very disappointing...

In Exile

I see news.com.au don't want to be left out of the fun either this week.

A report in the adelaide advertiser about an Irishman in court is linked to the news.com site.

Someone must have decided this was a funny sub heading for the site:

"DID you hear the one about the drunken semi-naked Irishman and the police horse? It's no joke - in fact, it ended up in court, to be sure, to be sure."

catbear

Prepare for ultimate cringe!

Christian Bigotry? Check

Sexism? Check

Victorian Era Anti Irish bigotry Check
(I won't call that racism as it's nothing to the treatment aboriginals get)

Crassness? Check

Ladies and Gentlemen, behold the one the Australian Public elected as their leader!

At the same time as Dunnes Stores workers were striking against handling South African Apartheid produce Lang Hancot (Gina Rhinehart's dad) was proposing a final solution for the "Aboriginal Problem"

If you've got a few hours to spare then Utopia is worth a view.

The Aussie

In Exile wrote: »

I see news.com.au don't want to be left out of the fun either this week.

A report in the adelaide advertiser about an Irishman in court is linked to the news.com site.

Someone must have decided this was a funny sub heading for the site:

"DID you hear the one about the drunken semi-naked Irishman and the police horse? It's no joke - in fact, it ended up in court, to be sure, to be sure."

LOL...

FURET

Being devil's advocate here, it's a fact of life that many people are wan kers and enjoy mocking others who are different. This type of thing is very common especially in blue collar jobs. It's to be expected.

So to be honest, if someone actually speaks with a turty-tree-and-a-turd accent, they had best ditch it and learn to speak in a clearer, more neutral way. Even in Ireland it marks someone out as unsophisticated. Patrick Kavanagh bemoaned his own "thick-tongued mumble".

I'm not saying it's right that people should have to change their accents, but you have to adjust somewhat to new environments, and if you're a walking stereotype in terms of accent and drink and what have you, then unfortunately you give thick people in the host country plenty of rods to beat you with.

catbear

FURET wrote: »

So to be honest, if someone actually speaks with a turty-tree-and-a-turd accent, they had best ditch it and learn to speak in a clearer, more neutral way. Even in Ireland it marks someone out as unsophisticated. Patrick Kavanagh bemoaned his own "thick-tongued mumble".

If someone understands you perfectly but mocks you for your accent then they are seeking to denigrate. Anyway the ones I've met here who do that are generally social outcasts amongst their own already.

FURET

catbear wrote: »

If someone understands you perfectly but mocks you for your accent then they are seeking to denigrate. Anyway the ones I've met here who do that are generally social outcasts amongst their own already.

I know, you're right. It's complete asshattery. But it's going to happen.

catbear

FURET wrote: »

I know, you're right. It's complete asshattery. But it's going to happen.

If someone understands perfectly but has a problem with my accent then that's their problem. Changing yourself to suit a bigot only encourages that persons bigotry towards you.
I generally take the piss out of people who mock my accent, I tell I'm here because so few of them can read and write.

old_aussie

Gaffney said .........."I’ve spent 10 years in Australia trying to better myself and in the space of one night everything can be taken away from you.”

Who took what away from him?

catbear

old_aussie wrote: »

Gaffney said .........."I’ve spent 10 years in Australia trying to better myself and in the space of one night everything can be taken away from you.”

Who took what away from him?

Charming. I suppose you think the media has no responsibilies.

Do you think the recriminations about the pranked nurse who killed herself are unjustified?

No wonder australia has a huge suicide culture, winning silver at the olypics gets headlines like "what went wrong".

The Aussie

catbear wrote: »

No wonder australia has a huge suicide culture, winning silver at the olypics gets headlines like "what went wrong".

Congratulations on reaching a new low, do you want to just flop out your Mickey and measure it FFS....

Using personal tragedy to win a interweb argument.