Minder indoctrinating children

LegacyUser

We have two kids who are minded full time.
My wife found out the minder has been bringing them to mass from a neighbour who saw them there.
The minder has also been reading religious stories like Noah and Christmas nativity books.
She doesn't see the harm. And says she goes to mass every day and other parents have never had a problem with this.
We are atheist, and don't want our kids exposed to this crap. The older one has been talking about holy God and whatnot, this should have been a clue.
The problem is the children are very happy there and it is very convenient arrangement in all other respects.
What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

January

Ask her to stop bringing them, if she says no then you can either carry on with the arrangement or find another minder.

diveout

I'd fire her.

Bassfish

Whoever pays the piper calls the tune, you're paying for her to provide a service that does not include religious indoctrination. Broach it with her in a friendly but unambiguous way that you as parents would prefer to teach the children about religion/spirituality or whatever and you'd both prefer if it was left to you. Say you know she meant well and praise the job she's doing in all other aspects and she should be grown up enough to accept that.

eviltwin

Does she know you are atheist? Could it be just a simple misunderstanding. If not I would either demand that she stops or find an alternative arrangement. She shouldn't be going to mass while she is working anyway imo, her job is to mind children, if she wants to go to mass she should make arrangements to do so off the clock.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

eviltwin wrote: »

Does she know you are atheist? Could it be just a simple misunderstanding. If not I would either demand that she stops or find an alternative arrangement. She shouldn't be going to mass while she is working anyway imo, her job is to mind children, if she wants to go to mass she should make arrangements to do so off the clock.

Yes I agree, how would she know you don't want them going to mass if you have not discussed it.

If you are going to talk to her about it, don't refer to it as 'crap' just because it is something you don't believe in, you should still be respectful of her opinion.

Big Bag of Chips

If the convenience of having her as a minder outweighs your reservations about the religion, then you can use this to start teaching your children: Some people believe - but some people don't. Me and your mam/dad don't believe in it. The stories are just stories, like Snow White, Cinderella and The 3 little pigs.

It depends on what you agreed would be the childminder's daily routine. Some people prefer for the kids to be minded only in the childminder's home, doing arts, crafts, baking etc (like in a creche) others prefer for their children to experience the daily life of the childminder.. going to the post office, into town, calling into Joan down the road for a cup of tea etc.

It might be time to set out your terms. She may not agree to them if she has always incorporated the kids she minds into her daily routine. If she doesn't.. that's when you have a decision to make.

amkin25

This post seem's like a load of rubbish to me the militant atheist vs the militant catholic lol.

Roquentin

amkin25 wrote: »

This post seem's like a load of rubbish to me the millitant atheist vs the militant catholic lol.

"Aliens, now there's something that might just be possible," Father Ted

DM addict

annoyedannoyed wrote: »

We have two kids who are minded full time.
My wife found out the minder has been bringing them to mass from a neighbour who saw them there.
The minder has also been reading religious stories like Noah and Christmas nativity books.
She doesn't see the harm. And says she goes to mass every day and other parents have never had a problem with this.
We are atheist, and don't want our kids exposed to this crap. The older one has been talking about holy God and whatnot, this should have been a clue.
The problem is the children are very happy there and it is very convenient arrangement in all other respects.
What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

Be straight with her - tell her you're atheist, you want your kids to be raised atheist, and don't want her to teach any religion. To be honest, I'd have expected her to let you know that they were going to mass every day - that's fair enough if she wants to do it, but she's having a serious impact on how your children are raised.

Hopefully she'll be amenable to changing the routine. If not, you're going to have to look at other childminders, or find a way around it. I'd be looking for another childminder.

How many other kids is she minding, or is it just yours?

vitani

I'd be more concerned that this was happening every day and never mentioned to ye. I hear about everything without even asking - from shopping trips to trips to the playground. I wouldn't trust a minder who never even mentioned a daily Mass visit in passing.

pwurple

Well, if she is bringing a bunch of children, she can't exactly leave yours at home. You might need to find another childminder if you want to avoid it. She probably doesn't see any harm in stories and songs.

I bring my own kids to church nearly every day on mat leave because they really seem to love it. (Which is weird, because I hated being dragged to mass as a kid). Think it must be the singing or the rituals of it? Weekday mass is way faster than sunday anyway. Seems to suit the children's attention span better. I alternate it between the anglican and RC, both are near us. Don't think i'd be too bothered if a childminder was bringing them to a muslim or jewish ritual on top of it either. All cultural education in my eyes.

Ps, my strongly athiest friends still do noah toys etc, they just call it animal boat.

As it bothers you, you just have to discuss it, but I wouldn't expect her to change her routine on it if there are others involved. she probably finds that the children enjoy it and considers it more wholesome than plonking them in front of peppa pig.

Orion

amkin25 wrote: »

This post seem's like a load of rubbish to me the militant atheist vs the militant catholic lol.

Be constructive or don't post please. This type of comment is not helpful.

Hannibal Smith

I would do my NUT if this happened to me. It is not okay to expose other people's children to your beliefs. As a childminder she needs to tell you this stuff. I'm catholic, my kids are catholic, but if I thought my childminder was bringing my kids to mass on a daily basis I would flip out. It's my business how I do or don't deal with their religious instruction.

Whether the other parents have a problem with it or not isn't your problem. You have your private dealings with the woman and you are entitled to ask her not to bring your kids to mass.

Big Bag of Chips

I wouldn't be going in all guns blazing though! No need to mention the word "crap" or doing your nut. This is something the minder is doing that you would prefer she didn't do.

Lots of people of a certain age (Im guessing she's of the older generation?) still go to mass every morning. And its the same as going to the shop for them. They don't see it as anything out of the ordinary.

So, like a mature adult, you should maturely talk to the minder and tell her you would prefer that she not bring your children to mass.

Between you, you then decide what happens next. She either stops going to mass every morning in order to stay on as your minder, or she decides she must/has to/wants to go to mass every morning and then you find a different minder.

No need for a "guns blazing" attitude to this at all!

eviltwin

Don't make a big deal of it, it could simply be that she has just assumed you would be okay with it. Catholic is kinda the default religion here so she might not have thought to clear it with you first. Any child minder worth their salt won't do anything that the parents are not happy with so give her a chance but its a big deal, I'm atheist and I would be very annoyed if someone disrespected my beliefs and took a child to church or a mosque or other place of faith on a regular basis, its one thing to bring a child in to show them but to make it a habit is crossing a line that a childminder has no right to cross. Her job is to mind your children, not be their religious guardian.

Dyr

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I'm catholic, my kids are catholic

If someone said "I'm fine gael, my kids are fine gael" then people would find that quite weird

amkin25

Orion wrote: »

Be constructive or don't post please. This type of comment is not helpful.

I was simply pointing out that i don't think this is real,while it is entirely possible, i would be willing to bet your life that it is not,and people are simply being led up the garden path by this poster.

Hannibal Smith

Bambi wrote: »

If someone said "I'm fine gael, my kids are fine gael" then people would find that quite weird

I'm sure they might?

Big Bag of Chips

Bringing your child to mass every morning, or not, is not something you as a parent would think you'd have to bring up at the interview stage.

Same way as the woman who has always gone to mass every morning would think there's nothing wrong with bringing the kids too.

All that is needed here is a bit of clarification from both sides.

Chattastrophe!

I just find it very strange that she never once mentioned bringing them to mass. You'd think it would happen to come up in conversation occasionally at the end of the day, unless she knew you wouldn't approve so was purposely trying to hide it. Also it's very strange your children never mentioned it - had she told them not to?

annoyedannoyed wrote: »

What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

It should absolutely be as simple as asking her not to. You're the parent, you should be able to tell her what to do and what not to do with your children. If she doesn't respect your wishes, are you really comfortable leaving your children with her?

While I'm not religious I wouldn't necessarily refuse to have my child brought to mass, however I would expect to be told about it in advance. It's not even the "indoctrination" that's an issue for me here - it's the secrecy around it, especially if she asked the children not to tell you.

Neyite

How long has this been going on? What concerns me is that she deliberately omitted to tell you about a place she brings your child to regularly. It would cause me to wonder what else does she do or say that she hides. Its a breach of trust.

If I was minding a child, I generally fill the parent in on what we did for the day, nap times, what they ate, where we went, and when my relatives mind my child they do likewise. She omitted it because she knew you wouldnt like it, would disagree with her instructing your child in religion but chose to do it her way anyway.

Is this a minder or a relative minding the child? How you deal with it may depend on that.

nikpmup

I would be livid if this was happening to my child. It's not as simple as likening it to bringing the child to the shop or something equally as benign - it's bringing the child to a place where ideology is taught/practiced. That is solely the parent's responsibility, and IMO the childminder has no right to do such a thing. If the OP had said the childminder was bringing the children to, say, Scientologist or Moonies meetings daily, would it be seen as harmless? No. Just because it is a religion that we are ''used'' to, it doesn't make it okay. And, as Chattastrophe says, it's the secrecy around it that is more worrying. A childminder is paid to do a job; that job does not include deciding what spiritual direction the child should take. For the record, I am atheist, but I have great respect for faiths of all descriptions, and if my childminder wanted to go to mass daily I would make as much effort as I could to accommodate it on the proviso that my son wasn't included.

pwurple

nikpmup wrote: »

I would be livid if this was happening to my child. It's not as simple as likening it to bringing the child to the shop or something equally as benign - it's bringing the child to a place where ideology is taught/practiced.

Heh. Ain't that a sign of the times!

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself.


A simple bit of communication is all that's needed with the childminder, as nearly every poster has pointed out. Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

LegacyUser

The schools that do most of the indoctrination these days and if OP's kids are heading to an educate together school the childminder is way out of line. If they're christened and going to a catholic primary school maybe it's no harm to introduce them to the environment?

Big Bag of Chips

pwurple wrote: »

Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

Possibly the best bit of advice in the entire thread.

And a line that should probably be stickied at the top of the forum!

diveout

pwurple wrote: »

Heh. Ain't that a sign of the times!

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself.


A simple bit of communication is all that's needed with the childminder, as nearly every poster has pointed out. Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

Try to understand, that for an atheist or secularist, this would be like your childminder bringing your kids to mosque or temple and have them practising Islam or Judaism without your knowledge or consent.

It is really really not ok. I would fire her on the spot and I mean it. It is so obviously a transgression of boundaries and unprofessional.

nikpmup

pwurple wrote: »

Heh. Ain't that a sign of the times!

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself.


A simple bit of communication is all that's needed with the childminder, as nearly every poster has pointed out. Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

That's fine, and if that is your ideology then by all means raise your children as you see fit. Personally, I think bringing a child to a shopping centre and teaching them that they don't need to buy everything they see is a valuable lesson too, but we're not talking about shopping centres. We're talking about religion, and it is solely a parents prerogative to teach religion or raise their child with or without faith. If the childminder had brought the child to mass once or twice as part of a varied day-to-day structure, then yes, have a chat about it and that should be the end of the matter, but she didn't. She brought the children to mass daily, and then continued to reinforce religious ideology at home by reading bible stories. That is way, way over the line, IMO, and not harmless or just something she does to pass the time. It is religious instruction, and the fact that the OP's children are now asking about god is proof of that. Would you be really okay if I were to bring your children to a mosque everyday and then read passages from the Koran to them and keep it secret from you? I doubt it.

MagicMarker

Felix Plain Rumba wrote: »

Yes I agree, how would she know you don't want them going to mass if you have not discussed it.

This really annoys me, if they haven't discussed it then why does the minder assume there would be no problem? Religion is a personal thing, the minder has no right to impose her religiosity onto the children of her employers without discussing it with them.

Personally, I think I'd fire her. Yes you can bring it up with her and she may say she'll never do it again, but you have no idea what she'll be telling the children when you're not there, if she's as devout as she sounds then she'd feel almost obligated by her faith to "spread the word".

I'd get rid.

nikpmup

erichoone wrote: »

The schools that do most of the indoctrination these days and if OP's kids are heading to an educate together school the childminder is way out of line. If they're christened and going to a catholic primary school maybe it's no harm to introduce them to the environment?

It's a parents prerogative to introduce them to the environment if they so wish, not a childminders.

MagicMarker

pwurple wrote: »

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself....

Just.... wow.

Preferring religious indoctrination to shopping in Tesco, an interesting perspective.

pwurple

nikpmup wrote: »

That's fine, and if that is your ideology then by all means raise your children as you see fit. Personally, I think bringing a child to a shopping centre and teaching them that they don't need to buy everything they see is a valuable lesson too, but we're not talking about shopping centres. We're talking about religion, and it is solely a parents prerogative to teach religion or raise their child with or without faith. If the childminder had brought the child to mass once or twice as part of a varied day-to-day structure, then yes, have a chat about it and that should be the end of the matter, but she didn't. She brought the children to mass daily, and then continued to reinforce religious ideology at home by reading bible stories. That is way, way over the line, IMO, and not harmless or just something she does to pass the time. It is religious instruction, and the fact that the OP's children are now asking about god is proof of that. Would you be really okay if I were to bring your children to a mosque everyday and then read passages from the Koran to them and keep it secret from you? I doubt it.

My children have been to mosques. we have quran in the house, plus a children's illustrated quran, which we read. I am a big fan of understanding how people tick, which includes their cultural background. I will give them an understanding of as many belief systems as I can, so that they can see the similarities and differences in ethics.

On reading bible stories. For a start, I don't ever think banning any kind of reading material is ever a good idea. Reading is fantastic for children! And secondly, there are so many popular references to religious stories, especially in Ireland, you're never going to be able to strip this out of a childs life. Even inocuous phrases like "that went out with the flood". A vast amount of our native literature is laced with it. Anything by joyce for example. Are you going to ban them from reading ulysses in later life? How about seeing films like Raiders of the Lost Ark? Of course not, it would be impossible... This influence will certainly come into their lives whatever you do. Even participating in christmas and easter is part of it.

I don't think this woman was deliberately being secretive or deceptive, afterall, they do KNOW the children are being taken to mass, so it must have come up somehow.

The big difference between a childminder and a creche is that your child fits into the minder's home and their daily life... And often takes part in their family when they have other children. If you take issue with how that family functions (by being of a particular religion) then it may not be the childminder for you.

Big Bag of Chips

People are assuming that the childminder deliberately and deceptively brings the children to mass. She may see nothing wrong with it and may not think that something she has done for her whole life would cause outrage amongst others.

It may not have come up in conversation the same way as she may not have told them "We went to the post office today". There is very little detail in the opening post, but from that people are concluding that she is a fanatic, forcing religion on the kids and warning them to keep it secret.

All that is needed here, and the first thing that the OP should have thought of before posting here was bringing it up with the childminder.

All too often people bull in with "sack her", "I'd be livid", "How dare she" etc, but if she doesn't know any better, then she's not deliberately doing anything wrong. And a civil chat between 2 (3) adults should be enough to sort it out.

Nowadays religion in Ireland is very different. Nowadays religion is a personal thing and a personal choice. Not so long ago it wasn't a personal choice.. it was the norm. If the lady is coming from a place where religion is just what everyone does, then she needs to be told that that's not the way things are anymore. If she hasn't been told, then she won't even consider it.

As has been said many many many times on the thread... Talk to the woman!

MagicMarker

pwurple wrote: »

I don't think this woman was deliberately being secretive or deceptive, afterall, they do KNOW the children are being taken to mass, so it must have come up somehow.

They know because their neighbour saw the children at mass with the minder.

username123

Very dangerous. What's the difference between indoctrinating them with Catholic teachings and indoctrinating them with Satanic blood sacrifice rituals? How about if the religion in question was one where polygamy was acceptable. The only reason Catholicism seems different is because it's the culturally acceptable religion in this country.

However, comparisons to other nonsensical cults aside, id be just as angry if my child was being told as fact that the Tooth Fairy created the universe. The truth is, religious indoctrination teaches children not to ask questions and to blindly accept dogma. That's not setting up a healthy inquiring mind for future progress in my opinion.

It's a serious breach of boundaries, as would the childminder secretly bringing the children to anything that you would view as morally wrong. If you found out they were attending cock fighting or being taught how to shoplift you'd have no hesitation in firing the childminder. Bit extreme? Well so is religion.

nikpmup

pwurple wrote: »

My children have been to mosques. we have quran in the house, plus a children's illustrated quran, which we read. I am a big fan of understanding how people tick, which includes their cultural background. I will give them an understanding of as many belief systems as I can, so that they can see the similarities and differences in ethics.

On reading bible stories. For a start, I don't ever think banning any kind of reading material is ever a good idea. Reading is fantastic for children! And secondly, there are so many popular references to religious stories, especially in Ireland, you're never going to be able to strip this out of a childs life. Even inocuous phrases like "that went out with the flood". A vast amount of our native literature is laced with it. Anything by joyce for example. Are you going to ban them from reading ulysses in later life? How about seeing films like Raiders of the Lost Ark? Of course not, it would be impossible... This influence will certainly come into their lives whatever you do. Even participating in christmas and easter is part of it.

I don't think this woman was deliberately being secretive or deceptive, afterall, they do KNOW the children are being taken to mass, so it must have come up somehow.

The big difference between a childminder and a creche is that your child fits into the minder's home and their daily life... And often takes part in their family when they have other children. If you take issue with how that family functions (by being of a particular religion) then it may not be the childminder for you.

Okay then, to use your example of plasticky consumerism - if I were to bring your child to a shopping centre everyday, to expose them to credit card culture, if I were to teach them that money is king and if you don't have X product and a big car and a big house, then you're worthless, if you are really lucky you'll marry money and then you'll be someone....I assume you wouldn't be okay with that?! You are entitled to expose your children to whatever religious or cultural influences you wish - they are your children. Your childminder is paid to care for them. It is not their place to decide what religious instruction they are subject to.
The OP said theat his wife 'discovered' that the children were being brought to mass, and that they are on holiday ATM; from that, my understanding is that it is only recently that they found this out and they are trying to decide how to proceed. While I do agree to a point that children being minded in a childminders house fit into their family life, it is only to a point. Day to day interactions, yes. Deciding on religious instruction without the consent/knowledge of the parents - totally different, and not right. And yes, a child will most likely come across religious references from day to day, but teaching it and practicing it is vastly different to the odd mention. As I mentioned before, I would have no problem sending my child to a childminder who has a faith, and if they wished to practice said faith then I would do my best to accommodate it, but I would not be okay with a childminder repeatedly exposing my son to something I don't want him exposed to.

Fr Tod Umptious

annoyedannoyed wrote: »

We have two kids who are minded full time.
My wife found out the minder has been bringing them to mass from a neighbour who saw them there.
The minder has also been reading religious stories like Noah and Christmas nativity books.
She doesn't see the harm. And says she goes to mass every day and other parents have never had a problem with this.
We are atheist, and don't want our kids exposed to this crap. The older one has been talking about holy God and whatnot, this should have been a clue.
The problem is the children are very happy there and it is very convenient arrangement in all other respects.
What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

Hi Op
So you have obviously talked to her about it, because you say she sees not harm in going to Mass every day and also says that other parents have no problem with it.

If the kids are happy and it is convenient then you could let it slide, anything they learn from her they will have long forgotten by the time they are halfway through the non religious school you will be sending them to.

nikpmup

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

People are assuming that the childminder deliberately and deceptively brings the children to mass. She may see nothing wrong with it and may not think that something she has done for her whole life would cause outrage amongst others.

It may not have come up in conversation the same way as she may not have told them "We went to the post office today". There is very little detail in the opening post, but from that people are concluding that she is a fanatic, forcing religion on the kids and warning them to keep it secret.

All that is needed here, and the first thing that the OP should have thought of before posting here was bringing it up with the childminder.

All too often people bull in with "sack her", "I'd be livid", "How dare she" etc, but if she doesn't know any better, then she's not deliberately doing anything wrong. And a civil chat between 2 (3) adults should be enough to sort it out.

Nowadays religion in Ireland is very different. Nowadays religion is a personal thing and a personal choice. Not so long ago it wasn't a personal choice.. it was the norm. If the lady is coming from a place where religion is just what everyone does, then she needs to be told that that's not the way things are anymore. If she hasn't been told, then she won't even consider it.

As has been said many many many times on the thread... Talk to the woman!

The OP stated that the childminder "doesn't see the harm" and that she has told the OP that she goes to mass everyday, and the other parents are okay with it - I would imagine this means that the OP has already asked her about it, and the response was the above. I'm not a fan of all-guns-blazing; if it were me I would politely and civilly talk to the childminder and request that it doesn't happen again, (even though I would be angry about it happening and angry that I was left with the task of undoing said indoctrination) however, if the response was "sure what's the harm" etc, and continued to do it, then yes, I would be livid and the childminder would be getting the sack.

foggy_lad

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I wouldn't be going in all guns blazing though! No need to mention the word "crap" or doing your nut. This is something the minder is doing that you would prefer she didn't do.

Lots of people of a certain age (Im guessing she's of the older generation?) still go to mass every morning. And its the same as going to the shop for them. They don't see it as anything out of the ordinary.

Which makes it worse as she is indoctrinated and is unlikely to want to or be able to change her routine.

So, like a mature adult, you should maturely talk to the minder and tell her you would prefer that she not bring your children to mass.

Between you, you then decide what happens next. She either stops going to mass every morning in order to stay on as your minder, or she decides she must/has to/wants to go to mass every morning and then you find a different minder.

No need for a "guns blazing" attitude to this at all!

I would tell the childminder that her services are no longer required and only tell her why if she asked. Any instruction on her not going to Mass or not giving any religious instruction could possibly lead to a change in how she deals with the child and is not something a parent should be comfortable with.

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Bringing your child to mass every morning, or not, is not something you as a parent would think you'd have to bring up at the interview stage.

This woman's religion is her own business to be practised on her own time, not while any parent is paying her to mind their children. Is anyone in this thread paid by their employer for going to Mass/Temple etc for an hour a day?

Same way as the woman who has always gone to mass every morning would think there's nothing wrong with bringing the kids too.

All that is needed here is a bit of clarification from both sides.

She has no right to bring the child anywhere without the permission of the parents. Most people will not consider daily mass as a part of the normal routine and would certainly not tolerate it while a person is paid to be doing something else.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Hi Op
So you have obviously talked to her about it, because you say she sees not harm in going to Mass every day and also says that other parents have no problem with it.

If the kids are happy and it is convenient then you could let it slide, anything they learn from her they will have long forgotten by the time they are halfway through the non religious school you will be sending them to.

She sees no harm and is unlikely to want to stop or change her routine in any way.

At the end of the day this woman is unlikely to want to or even be able to change the routine she has most likely had since she was a young girl. The only sensible option is to replace her.

Fr Tod Umptious

nikpmup wrote: »

The OP stated that the childminder "doesn't see the harm" and that she has told the OP that she goes to mass everyday, and the other parents are okay with it - I would imagine this means that the OP has already asked her about it, and the response was the above. I'm not a fan of all-guns-blazing; if it were me I would politely and civilly talk to the childminder and request that it doesn't happen again(even though I would be angry about it happening and angry that I was left with the task of undoing said indoctrination)[\b] however, if the response was "sure what's the harm" etc, and continued to do it, then yes, I would be livid and the childminder would be getting the sack.

Go easy on the exaggerating there, as I said it will be all forgotten about after a few years in school.

On the face of it letting her go would be sensible, but changing childminders is not as easy as replacing a checkout worker in a supermarket, you cannot just sack them on the spot as so here are suggesting.
You have to consider the child's happiness and routine, your own routine and the costs

diveout

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Go easy on the exaggerating there, as I said it will be all forgotten about after a few years in school.

On the face of it letting her go would be sensible, but changing childminders is not as easy as replacing a checkout worker in a supermarket, you cannot just sack them on the spot as so here are suggesting.
You have to consider the child's happiness and routine, your own routine and the costs

How do you know that?

I had religious instruction once a week for an hour and I still remember the Ten Commandments, the story of the golden cow and Moses and the fire appearing on the mountain, the concepts of sin and worship, and the notion of evil as taught in the story of Adam and Eve. And that animals don't go to heaven because they don't have souls.

Nothing has been forgotten and I was not made to go to mass every day. This was religion light.

foggy_lad

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Go easy on the exaggerating there, as I said it will be all forgotten about after a few years in school.

Not if it is being thought in the time-honoured catholic manner of repeating the Mass/Lesson until it is known off by heart. Children learn most from their daily (repetitive) routine.

Fr Tod Umptious

diveout wrote: »

How do you know that?

I had religious instruction once a week for an hour and I still remember the Ten Commandments, the story of the golden cow and Moses and the fire appearing on the mountain, the concepts of sin and worship, and the notion of evil as taught in the story of Adam and Eve. And that animals don't go to heaven because they don't have souls.

Nothing has been forgotten and I was not made to go to mass every day. This was religion light.

But has the above knowledge adversely affected you in your development as a person, somehow I doubt it.

People go a bit OTT about the consequences of learning about a religion.

Fr Tod Umptious

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not if it is being thought in the time-honoured catholic manner of repeating the Mass/Lesson until it is known off by heart. Children learn most from their daily (repetitive) routine.

Its a childminders, not the Taliban.

diveout

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But has the above knowledge adversely affected you in your development as a person, somehow I doubt it.

People go a bit OTT about the consequences of learning about a religion.

That is not the point. The parents are paying her. She can practise her religion on her own time and not inflict it on THEIR kids.

beauf

diveout wrote: »

How do you know that?

I had religious instruction once a week for an hour and I still remember the Ten Commandments, the story of the golden cow and Moses and the fire appearing on the mountain, the concepts of sin and worship, and the notion of evil as taught in the story of Adam and Eve. And that animals don't go to heaven because they don't have souls.

Nothing has been forgotten and I was not made to go to mass every day. This was religion light.

you remember that from pre school? Impressive.

Any way the issue is really the childminder should ask permission what trips are ok. And if religious stories are ok. Because its not usual.

Fr Tod Umptious

diveout wrote: »

That is not the point. The parents are paying her. She can practise her religion on her own time and not inflict it on THEIR kids.

Inflict eh ?
Again a bit exaggerated

eviltwin

diveout wrote: »

That is not the point. The parents are paying her. She can practise her religion on her own time and not inflict it on THEIR kids.

This is the issue I have with it. If I'm paying someone to mind my child I want to know where they go and what they do. I wouldn't be happy thinking my minder was doing her daily routine with kids in tow rather than actually minding them and doing things with them.

I think it does all come down to who the minder is, if its a friend or family member its a bit different to a registered childminder. Either way you need to trust the person who is taking care of your kids and if you can't I'd be really thinking if they are the right person for the job.

Roquentin

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Inflict eh ?
Again a bit exaggerated

Next she will sacrifice them to our lord

nikpmup

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Go easy on the exaggerating there, as I said it will be all forgotten about after a few years in school.

On the face of it letting her go would be sensible, but changing childminders is not as easy as replacing a checkout worker in a supermarket, you cannot just sack them on the spot as so here are suggesting.
You have to consider the child's happiness and routine, your own routine and the costs

I don't see it as exaggerating. I remember all of the religious instruction I received as a child, mostly at the hands of my gran and great aunt. And yes, I know you can't just replace a childminder in a jiffy, but IMO, something as important as this warrants it.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But has the above knowledge adversely affected you in your development as a person, somehow I doubt it.
People go a bit OTT about the consequences of learning about a religion.

Yes, actually, I believe it has had a big (negative) impact on my development, hence the reason I am an atheist.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Inflict eh ?
Again a bit exaggerated

Yes, inflict. If the parents do not want the child exposed to something, and they are exposed to it regardless, then it is inflicted.

You may believe that religion and doctrine is harmless, I disagree in the strongest possible terms. If my child was being exposed to it against my wishes by someone I'm paying to mind him, I think it's perfectly reasonable of me to want that situation to stop. If my childminder had (for example) racist views and was exposing my child to said views, it'd be a no-brainier - get rid, ASAP. I view this the same way.

pwurple

nikpmup wrote: »

Okay then, to use your example of plasticky consumerism - if I were to bring your child to a shopping centre everyday, to expose them to credit card culture, if I were to teach them that money is king and if you don't have X product and a big car and a big house, then you're worthless, if you are really lucky you'll marry money and then you'll be someone....I assume you wouldn't be okay with that

No, i wouldn't be ok with that. I'd talk to the childminder, and if I wasn't happy with what they did day to day, I'd get another one. Same as what I said the OP should do if they are not happy with what is happening day to day.

Or, maybe as you said yourself, I'd teach them otherwise.

Personally, I think bringing a child to a shopping centre and teaching them that they don't need to buy everything they see is a valuable lesson too