Frances Fitzgerald is new Justice Minster. **Mod warning opening post**

metroburgers

With Frances Fitzgerald as the new Minister of Justice, and the next Garda Commissioner probably being Noreen O'Sullivan, will anything change?

Deleted User wrote: »

Mod

The gender of the new minister is irrelevant. If anyone things they're free to make unnecessary comments or jokes referencing her gender, they should think again.

We worked hard to stamp out the sexist bull from this forum and we will not allow it to creep back in.

Keep the comments civil and please refrain from resorting to abuse.

Meauldsegosha

Attorney General is also female. We're taking over. ;-)

drunkmonkey

Ahh ffs another one of the reefer madness brigade!!

Riskymove

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

Attorney General is also female. We're taking over. ;-)

though noticeably the army had to be taken away...couldn't have a Woman in charge there!! :pac:

Woodville56

Another ally of Enda Kenny promoted ! She may have the ability to meet the challenge of sorting out the Garda mess but one wonders is the promotion more about loyalty than ability ? Then again Charlie Flanagan opposed Kenny in the heave a few years back ?

Dyr

We've had a c**t as a minister for defence since the last election anyway


Seriously though, anyone who thinks having a woman in charge on the top deck is a blow for equality neds their head examined. They're all from the same background regardless of their genitalia

sillyoulfool

A missed opportunity to bring radical change to our institutionally corrupt and dysfunctional Gardaí!
If the Interim Commissioner is made commissioner you can take it as a message from FG/Lab that change and transparency is the last thing they want, as she is as up to her neck in the mismanagement of AGS as Callinan was.

Frynge

If women ran the pentagon and NASA, would spaceships, submarines and missiles be shaped differently?

Meauldsegosha

Riskymove wrote: »

though noticeably the army had to be taken away...couldn't have a Woman in charge there!! :pac:

Yeah when those hormones start raging you don't want us around the weapons. :eek::D

foggy_lad

Riskymove wrote: »

though noticeably the army had to be taken away...couldn't have a Woman in charge there!! :pac:

She refused to grow the mandatory mustache: D

mickydoomsux

Woodville56 wrote: »

Another ally of Enda Kenny promoted !

It's almost as if he's the leader of the government with carry on like that!

Seriously, why did you expect him to promote someone that wasn't an ally?

Woodville56

Amazing how predictable the new appointments were , the place must leak like a sieve!

Birroc

Poor decision in my opinion. She is a relatively weak politician. Ineffective.
I believe she will close shop and halt any reforms for fear of any more crisis points.
Like Enda Kenny, she says it best when she says nothing at all.

Mod

The gender of the new minister is irrelevant. If anyone thinks they're free to make unnecessary comments or jokes referencing her gender, they should think again.

We worked hard to stamp out the sexist bull from this forum and we will not allow it to creep back in.

Keep the comments civil and please refrain from resorting to abuse.

Woodville56

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It's almost as if he's the leader of the government with carry on like that!

Seriously, why did you expect him to promote someone that wasn't an ally?

The new minister is clearly on the Kenny wing of Fine Gael, I'm not questioning her ability but there are other very able FG politicians who, despite their ability, will never get a look in when it comes to ministerial or junior ministerial office because they are not in the Kenny clique ! Unfortunately, it's the country suffers through this system because not always the most able get promoted ! And I'm not referring here to the new ministers , it's just that promotion based on allegiance isn't always the best option - so much for Kenny's self proclaimed new way of government - he could really be brave at this point and dump a few of his "loyal" lieutenants who have not performed - now that would be progressive !

Tombo2001

Woodville56 wrote: »

Amazing how predictable the new appointments were , the place must leak like a sieve!

Were you expecting him to appoint Roy Keane?

Woodville56

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Were you expecting him to appoint Roy Keane?

No, were you ?? What's with the flippant comment anyway ?

Tombo2001

Woodville56 wrote: »

No, were you ?? What's with the flippant comment anyway ?

Apologies for being a smart-ass, shouldnt have said it.

To put it differently, there was a limited number of candidates so didnt take a huge amount of figuring out. On the other, you are right, it clearly did leak.

artful_codger

A Social Worker appointed to Minister of Justice. Says it all.

force eleven

Staunch Kenny ally. Varadkar would be well able for the job, but he's a young gun with ambitions for greater things, Kenny will make him wait.

Woodville56

artful_codger wrote: »

A Social Worker appointed to Minister of Justice. Says it all.

Well we have a doctor as Minister for Health and look where that's got us !!

Stheno

Wonder will her background as childrens minister move forward the family and child legislation that is needed?

Bongalongherb

Thank god it's not Charlie Flanagan. Interesting choice they picked, I have no problem with Frances Fitzgerald.

Amirani

artful_codger wrote: »

A Social Worker appointed to Minister of Justice. Says it all.

Says all what?

tritium

metroburgers wrote: »

With Frances Fitzgerald as the new Minister of Justice, and the next Garda Commissioner probably being Noreen O'Sullivan, will anything change?

No, why would you assume gender would make the slightest difference? Frankly that mindset is just a liberal soundbyte with no factual basis.

A reasonably safe appointment, a competent if unspectacular politician. Will do fine without probably being too inspiring.

Muise...

metroburgers wrote: »

With Frances Fitzgerald as the new Minister of Justice, and the next Garda Commissioner probably being Noreen O'Sullivan, will anything change?

Here's a mad idea OP: it's only been a few hours - why don't we wait and see?

super_furry

Would be nice to think that she has the appetite to clean up a very dodgy Garda force, but I doubt it.

CramCycle

A weak politician, her run as Childrens minister and failure to move or even talk about the adoption issues that she was supposed to sort out shows that she is not fit for any ministerial position let alone as a TD. A poor choice by Enda, you would have thought he would have pulled in one of those who spoke out against the commissioner to show that he is welcoming of fresh ideas and common sense but yet again he is just pulling in friends to keep himself insulated.

I sincerely hope she proves me wrong and that she can do a good job but I have littel faith.

artful_codger

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Says all what?

She hasn't a clue of the brief. Do you think you could run an IT department if you didn't have a background in IT? The Gardai and law society will run rings around her.

Mantis Toboggan

Completely underqualified for her new job.

artful_codger

Woodville56 wrote: »

Well we have a doctor as Minister for Health and look where that's got us !!

That doesn't negate the importance of knowing your brief.

Riskymove

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Completely underqualified for her new job.

what exactly are the qualifications for being this or any other Minister?

Amirani

artful_codger wrote: »

She hasn't a clue of the brief. Do you think you could run an IT department if you didn't have a background in IT? The Gardai and law society will run rings around her.

Not always that big of a deal. Management skills are more important.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/256636?uid=3738232&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21103987762077

PepsiCo's current CEO is the former CEO of Nokia for example. There's some advantages to having a mister from outside the area:

- More likely to look at things objectively
- More likely to listen to experts rather than trying to impart their own knowledge
- Less likely to be part of some clique (lawyers, accountants etc.)

Most significant reform decisions are made at cabinet level anyway. Fitzgerald's main role will be listening to experts and making decisions based on this. She won't be making laws and reshaping institutions on her own, which no minister should.

I accept that sometimes it can be advantageous to have a minister within an area that they're expert in. However, it's not always necessary and doesn't really make as big a difference as most people suggest.

slavetothegrind

she could not but be an improvement on shatter

Riskymove

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I accept that sometimes it can be advantageous to have a minister within an area that they're expert in. However, it's not always necessary and doesn't really make as big a difference as most people suggest.

I agree...indeed many of the most succesful and reforming Ministers were not experts in the field.

also...if you take the argument to the nth degree...noone could ever be appropriate to be elected Taoiseach

hmmm

We needed someone who could take on both the recidivist criminals and those who profit from the useless legal system. I doubt this is the appointment we needed, but we'll have to wait and see.

Wossack

slavetothegrind wrote: »

she could not but be an improvement on shatter

selling her a bit short really.. a dustbin full of wet rocks would be better then shatter

Red Pepper

Stheno wrote: »

Wonder will her background as childrens minister move forward the family and child legislation that is needed?

She was slow enough with that so I am not expecting much. Easy option Enda.

Ash.J.Williams

artful_codger wrote: »

She hasn't a clue of the brief. Do you think you could run an IT department if you didn't have a background in IT? The Gardai and law society will run rings around her.

Most IT managers i've encountered had no IT background.....IT people generally work in IT, Managers just manage...

CramCycle

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I accept that sometimes it can be advantageous to have a minister within an area that they're expert in. However, it's not always necessary and doesn't really make as big a difference as most people suggest.

Its not but her track record shows someone who either fears any type of change or is so incompetent in her managerial role that no progression is ever made. You need someone to walk in there, background knowledge or not, find out the key areas that need to be addressed in the immediate future and the long term, lay out priorities. Get the experts to hand to draw up a timetable and stick to it, or hammer it into her underlings that it is not a good enough timetable and it needs to be adapted to fufill the needs on time. If they can't do it, get better underlings.

Judgement Day

artful_codger wrote: »

A Social Worker appointed to Minister of Justice. Says it all.

Yes, it makes a 'hang em and flog em' merchant like me despair. The country is awash with criminal gangs, dissidents etc.etc. and what we need is a hardliner not another bleeding heart liberal. We need this man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Cooney back - even if he is 84.

metroburgers

tritium wrote: »

No, why would you assume gender would make the slightest difference? Frankly that mindset is just a liberal soundbyte with no factual basis.

Gender is irrelevant and was never mentioned, you assumed this. The two roles are intrinsically linked.

Red Pepper

Woodville56 wrote: »

so much for Kenny's self proclaimed new way of government - he could really be brave at this point and dump a few of his "loyal" lieutenants who have not performed - now that would be progressive !

To be honest I question why Enda seems to be getting off lightly recently. He is showing poor leadership, poor decision making and blind loyalty consistently and yet he seems to be immune to criticism on it.

Ash.J.Williams

Red Pepper wrote: »

To be honest I question why Enda seems to be getting off lightly recently. He is showing poor leadership, poor decision making and blind loyalty consistently and yet he seems to be immune to criticism on it.

He became leader purely as reward for being in the party so long, FF and the EU/ECB/IMF have done everything since he took over except the speech about the church and closing the vatican embassy which could be argued was a populist decision to make him look tough.

artful_codger

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Not always that big of a deal. Management skills are more important.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/256636?uid=3738232&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21103987762077

PepsiCo's current CEO is the former CEO of Nokia for example. There's some advantages to having a mister from outside the area:

- More likely to look at things objectively
- More likely to listen to experts rather than trying to impart their own knowledge
- Less likely to be part of some clique (lawyers, accountants etc.)

Most significant reform decisions are made at cabinet level anyway. Fitzgerald's main role will be listening to experts and making decisions based on this. She won't be making laws and reshaping institutions on her own, which no minister should.

I accept that sometimes it can be advantageous to have a minister within an area that they're expert in. However, it's not always necessary and doesn't really make as big a difference as most people suggest.

Unfortunately i can't reply to all of your points in more detail as i'm on my phone, but holding up Nokia as a good example of management is obscene. They are a spent Company due to their mismanagement. Furthermore, Frances has never held a job in the private sector, so as far as i'm concerned she is part of the public sector clique. Business as usual.

Beano

artful_codger wrote: »

She hasn't a clue of the brief. Do you think you could run an IT department if you didn't have a background in IT? The Gardai and law society will run rings around her.

cos having a solicitor as minister for justice really worked out well didnt it.

Ash.J.Williams

artful_codger wrote: »

Unfortunately i can't reply to all of your points in more detail as i'm on my phone, but holding up Nokia as a good example of management is obscene. They are a spent Company due to their mismanagement. Furthermore, Frances has never held a job in the private sector, so as far as i'm concerned she is part of the public sector clique. Business as usual.

that is true....nokia's management had a "the beatles? sure they'll never catch on" moment re smartphones!!

Amirani

artful_codger wrote: »

Unfortunately i can't reply to all of your points in more detail as i'm on my phone, but holding up Nokia as a good example of management is obscene. They are a spent Company due to their mismanagement. Furthermore, Frances has never held a job in the private sector, so as far as i'm concerned she is part of the public sector clique. Business as usual.

I made the above post on my phone also.

I didn't use Nokia as a good example or management, I used PepsiCo. I also linked to a paper with far more rigorous study on the area. Technical skills aren't of utmost importance for CEOs or ministers. Far more important, as CramCycle pointed out, are personal skills such as organisation, a desire for action, openness to change and an ability to communicate.

GarIT

Beano wrote: »

cos having a solicitor as minister for justice really worked out well didnt it.

One particular example doesn't mean something is always the case. having some relevant knowledge for the job should be a requirement the new minister has neither legal or management experience. So I believe she is not qualified for the role.

diomed

Good girl. :pac:

GarIT

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I made the above post on my phone also.

I didn't use Nokia as a good example or management, I used PepsiCo. I also linked to a paper with far more rigorous study on the area. Technical skills aren't of utmost importance for CEOs or ministers. Far more important, as CramCycle pointed out, are personal skills such as organisation, a desire for action, openness to change and an ability to communicate.

Ministers and CEOs are very different. Out of the skills you have listed the new minister has shown none.