Socialist paradise Venezuela introduces food rationing

fran17

Of course the elephant in the room as always is the good old u s of a.never a shrinking violet when it comes to manipulating south American countries and there economy's.might it be ripe for a cia backed coup? Time will tell

Son Of A Vidic

I am pie wrote: »

Anyone misguided enough to think Ireland isn't much better than Venezuela should pay a visit to Caracas whereupon reality would kick them square in the face.

Perspective is a scarce quality.

And where would we have ended up if the ECB hadn't of put cash into our ATM's? Then I suppose, little Ireland did save the Euro from collapse and contagion.

Blowfish

wes wrote: »

How is this any different than the proliferation of food banks across the UK for example? Its seems extremes in both systems are failures.

The difference is that UK shops/supermarkets have plenty of food in them, where as in Venezuela the shops are empty.

It's not a poverty issue directly, it's a food (among other things) shortage caused by the governments economic policies.

Wibbs

The US as the boogyman in south American politics is an easy sell to many and has some legs in some quarters(as had Communist influences), but in many examples internal screwups, powerplays and failed policies were and are far more to blame.

Grayson

wes wrote: »

How is this any different than the proliferation of food banks across the UK for example? Its seems extremes in both systems are failures.

It's kinda different because regular supermarkets are actually running out of food in Venezuela.
In an effort to combat poverty the Chavez government opened supermarkets that sold the basics at a discounted price. This actually worked really well for years. Poverty has dropped by half, from 50% of the population to 25% of the population. This was funded by money from the oil industry.

And despite the bitching you'll hear from some middle class idiots who wouldn't know poverty if they wiped it off their feet, there are literally millions of lives that are better off because of it.

Now, however there is a problem with the basic food stuff being sold. because it's being subsidised, it's cheaper than it is in Colombia and so a load of food is being stolen and sold over the border. This has lead to shortages and queues round the block to buy bread. If you add the fact that Caracas has a higher murder rate than Baghdad (that's not an exaggeration), you see why so many people are pissed off. It's a combination of a system that is out of date and corruption.

The subsidies idea was great when it started, but it should be ended now. For a smaller number of people it makes sense to use a food stamp system rather than blanket subsidies on a range of products. This would allow the government to help the poor whilst allowing the market for products to readjust.

MRnotlob606

i wanna shake my maracas in Caracas

jimgoose

I suspect the cause of this is the same one that usually crops up in communist-ish setups like the old Soviet bloc, that is a load of bureaucrats in some central location trying and failing to match supply with demand. As an aside, Al-Jazeera theorize that the shortage is caused by "food hoarding". They don't say who exactly is doing the hoarding - Mary Harney, maybe - but I should think any hoarding that's going on there is more symptomatic than causal!

But it seems to me that the biggest problem Venezuela has, prompting the government there to attempt all sorts of extremely costly and ham-fisted "solutions", is the currency black market. Bottom line, the people seem to have little faith in their own currency and much more faith in the U.S. dollar.

Sierra Oscar

I am not surprised. Venezuela is on the verge of revolution with the ongoing protests. It is amazing that so few states are paying attention to the issue. It looks like it could become a bloody all out armed conflict in the near future.

jimgoose

suicide_circus wrote: »

I live near an "english school" whose "students" are almost exclusively Venezuelan. Things must be rough there if they're coming to this economy to "learn english".

The stark reality is that this economy is like a gated community in Beverly Hills, Ca. compared to the way people have to live in most of the world.

wes

Blowfish wrote: »

The difference is that UK shops/supermarkets have plenty of food in them, where as in Venezuela the shops are empty.

It's not a poverty issue directly, it's a food (among other things) shortage caused by the governments economic policies.

Well yes, it is different of course. I was engaging in some hyperbole.

Still, different symptoms of people taking there ideology to far in some cases.

Blowfish

Grayson wrote: »

It's kinda different because regular supermarkets are actually running out of food in Venezuela.
In an effort to combat poverty the Chavez government opened supermarkets that sold the basics at a discounted price. This actually worked really well for years. Poverty has dropped by half, from 50% of the population to 25% of the population. This was funded by money from the oil industry.

You mean it worked well until fulfilling the inevitable. To quote: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

PopePalpatine

titan18 wrote: »

I'd love to live in that country.

As someone who survives on student grants, I wouldn't. A pure capitalist state throws the poorest under the bus under the guise of "THE MARKET WILLS IT!"

jimgoose

Grayson wrote: »

...however there is a problem with the basic food stuff being sold. because it's being subsidised, it's cheaper than it is in Colombia and so a load of food is being stolen and sold over the border. This has lead to shortages and queues round the block to buy bread. If you add the fact that Caracas has a higher murder rate than Baghdad...

This is the other, other problem that Venezuela has, and it's a problem shared by a vast swathe of South America. That is, the Civil Order. This is a game that's played with enthusiasm in every Western-style economy, and it is this that prevents the biggest, thickest ape from picking up a weapon and taking what he wants, bugger everyone else. Without the Civil Order game played properly, chaos, shortage, poverty, violence and murder are inevitable. The powers-that-be down there would do rather better to impose law and order rather than endless tinpot Castro-esque schemes like what goes on at the moment.

Elmer Blooker

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I am not surprised. Venezuela is on the verge of revolution with the ongoing protests. It is amazing that so few states are paying attention to the issue. It looks like it could become a bloody all out armed conflict in the near future.

just change Venezuela to Ukraine in above post, guess who's behind all of this?

Davarus Walrus

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

just change Venezuela to Ukraine in above post, guess who's behind all of this?

The Russians?

jimgoose

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

just change Venezuela to Ukraine in above post, guess who's behind all of this?

Phil Hogan??

Gringo180

I am pie wrote: »

Anyone misguided enough to think Ireland isn't much better than Venezuela should pay a visit to Caracas whereupon reality would kick them square in the face.

Perspective is a scarce quality.

Or else you could visit a place called Flint, Michigan in the richest most capitalist country in the world .

Suryavarman

Gringo180 wrote: »

Or else you could visit a place called Flint, Michigan in the richest most capitalist country in the world .

There is no Flint, Michigan in either Monaco (richest country) or in Hong Kong (most capitalist)

titan18

Wibbs wrote: »

I wouldn't. Sure it sounds great when you're doing OK while working hard watching some on social welfare apparently having it "handed to them on a plate" and yes that shít needs looking at. That said the danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater is very high.

The way I see it is this; life isn't fair. However I also see the evolution of human society is or should be an attempt to mitigate that truism by various means, socially. economically and scientifically as much as possible. Not much more than a century ago and in the west not far off half of the people reading this wouldn't have made it to their 20th birthday. Not fair. Science(and economics) stepped in and now that "unfairness" has been massively overturned and a more level playing field in longevity is in play and few would argue that this hasn't been a major achievement. If one was to apply a pure dog eat dog, survival of the fittest type philosophy then this would never have happened.

Access to education is another area where most of western society has attempted and mostly succeeded in leveling the playing field.

Access to housing ditto.

The problem is where it's taken too far in both "pure" socialist and "pure" capitalist philosophies. Both philosophies have many merits, the trick is to apply the right merits to the problems of society. Going one way or the other won't. As Wes points out extremes in both systems are failures(though I'd not equate the UK with a purely capitalist society or anything like it). Fairness is always the casualty.

Tbf, even though I'm from a working/barely middle-class family, I'm against socialist policies for the most part.

There has to be a basic level of care provided (e.g people shouldn't be dying of starvation, some standard of education provided etc), but it gets taken too far and you just end up subsidizing people, which if you're on about fairness, isn't really fair to be the people earning that money and having loads of it taken out in taxes.

In an ideal scenario, I'd rather low taxes and people had the responsibility to plan for themselves and their futures (e.g low pensions, no children's allowance etc). Just because some people won't plan ahead or aren't intelligent enough to, I don't see why other's should pay for them.

Obviously, there has to be a bare minimum provided, but imo, the bare minimum is too high in Ireland, and a lot of Western countries.

pO1Neil

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No. But the EU have all over Europe for years.

It's just funnier to say "oh look at those silly paddys give the people free cheese"

Fair enough I didn't honestly know that. It's strange that byumper234 liked your post tho because according to him no Irish people exist.

c_man

pO1Neil wrote: »

Do any workers in a EU country control the means of production yet?

My means of production is an open source compiler. Please, go on.

I am pie

Venezuelans it seems aren't capable of being angry to the point of wanting to kick out the government as a result of:

1. Highest murder rate in the world
2. Inability to meet demand for simple goods, toilet roll, milk etc because protectionist policies destroyed the incentive to produce anything. Impossible to source materials needed for production and keep pace with inflation = shut factory doors.
3. Violent repression of protests.

Oh no, those silly venezuelans, they need those clever americans to tell them to be all annoyed and angry about these things.

Once inflation and protectionism go beyond a certain tipping point they start to bite the poor who had previously benefited from them. When people with very little resources or ability to feed themselves are pushed to desperation you will see violence. Venezuela is a perfect storm of an ideologically strangled economy, poverty, violence and international isolation. All this with the world's biggest oil reserves.

bumper234

pO1Neil wrote: »

Fair enough I didn't honestly know that. It's strange that byumper234 liked your post tho because according to him no Irish people exist.

What an idiotic post.

Capt'n Midnight

titan18 wrote: »

I'd love to live in that country.

I always amazed at how many liberatarians would love to live in a fully deregulated country and how few have actually moved to places like Somalia

PopePalpatine

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I always amazed at how many liberatarians would love to live in a fully deregulated country and how few have actually moved to places like Somalia

Maybe it's because the likes of al-Shabab are in control there, and not Jordan Belfort wannabes?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gringo180 wrote: »

Or else you could visit a place called Flint, Michigan in the richest most capitalist country in the world .

Or scanavia, where a mix of socialism and capitalism works well in create a bloody efficient country and people that regularly top the happiest nation polls.

jank

jank wrote: »

If there ever was a government program I would support it would be a 'cultural' exchange program whereby the biggest moaners and whingers are flown to places like Venezuela or Cambodia or India or mulitple places in Africa and see what real poverty actually looks like. They will all go home with a sense of perspective and thank their lucky stars that they were born in a country that has given them so much...

This 'thank your lucky stars you weren't born in Nicaragua' attitude sickens me.

OneEightSeven

stankratz wrote: »

This 'thank your lucky stars you weren't born in Nicaragua' attitude sickens me.

That's known as the "lesser evil" fallacy. You get a lot of that sillyness on a forum populated by liberals or socialists.

However, the poster who believes Ireland isn't much better off than Venezuela is just talking shíte because I personally don't know of anyone getting food rations.

Doctor Strange

fran17 wrote: »

Of course the elephant in the room as always is the good old u s of a.never a shrinking violet when it comes to manipulating south American countries and there economy's.might it be ripe for a cia backed coup? Time will tell

CT is that way

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Doctor Strange wrote: »

CT is that way

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Oh, that's not theory. Have a quick look at a dicmemtary called 'The War On Democracy' and how Chavez was susted by US intervention and then tell me its a 'theory'.

The only way its a theory is in the same way evolution is s theory.