Roommate refuses to return deposit

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:05pm #1

Hi
I live in Sandyford in a house with 5 other people we all work in the area and everything was going fine until 1 month ago when one of the tenants got offered a job in Cork which was a great opportunity for her and we all encouraged her to take. Our lease is 3 year and in up the beginning of May next year (so there is 1 year left). She got the lease reassigned and payed all the bills and rent until she left and someone moved in ( Actually i think the new person didn't have to pay rent for a week and a half because it was already payed). There was no problems there. As she had to leave she asked that we her former housemates would send her deposit on when the LL gave it back, as the new person payed their deposit.

The problem is when the deposit was handed back to one of my housemates (basically the head housemate she makes sure the bills are payed and the rent is payed) she refused to send it on to the girl that moved out and there is no bills to be payed or rent arrears. And the former tenant has been in contact about the deposit to LL and then to head housemate who basically told her that she didn't deserve the deposit back because she left the lease early.

I am friends with both of them and I am trying not to get involved but the head housemate has just gone and booked a holiday with her boyfriend to Italy and is leaving us the rest of the housemates in trouble as the girl is seeking legal advice against all of us. I think the deposit should be returned to the girl who left but the rest of the housemates didn't even know about the deposit situation until a letter from a lawyer turned up for each of us including the girl that just moved in. The letter threatened legal action if the money wasn't returned promptly. The head housemate denied any knowledge of the deposit saying she sent it on, she only admitted it later on when she got really pissed at us for taking the girl who left side.

I was just wondering what action could be taken against us, or what could be done?? Any advice appreciated

shruikan2553 · 04-05-2014 3:12pm

Im not sure what could be done, getting the money back may cost more than it is worth through the small claims court but seeing as she found a replacement and paid all the bills she should be getting her part of the deposit back, I would have just paid the deposit straight to the person leaving (minus any damage they agreed to pay) but it is too late for that.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:13pm

I forgot to mention that the head housemate thinks she doesn't have to return the deposit until the entire lease is up as she feels that the girl who moved out should be liable too. Can she just decide to do this if the landlord let her go already.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:16pm

the letter basically says that the money totaling 575 euro most be returned and that if further action is taken we are liable to pay all the costs. The girl who left has been very civil about this and hasn't even asked the girl who moved in to pay the week and half rent she technically owes her and she doesn't want any of the money or property the whole house owns as it is too much of a hassle.

shruikan2553 · 04-05-2014 3:26pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

the letter basically says that the money totaling 575 euro most be returned and that if further action is taken we are liable to pay all the costs. The girl who left has been very civil about this and hasn't even asked the girl who moved in to pay the week and half rent she technically owes her and she doesn't want any of the money or property the whole house owns as it is too much of a hassle.

Think she can claim up to 2,000 through the small claims court and if she did go that way I would expect her to win. Tell the person in charge to just send her the part of the deposit. Sounds like she is attempting to keep it to herself and 575 euro is a reasonable amount to go after seeing as it costs 25 euro to go through the small claims court.

If there is damage done (she broke a chair or something) then the price to replace that can be taken.

Paulw · 04-05-2014 3:28pm

The deposit should be returned in full. If you have a new tenant (who should have paid a deposit), then the leaving tenant is due their deposit back.

The person who left should immediately lodge a complaint with the PRTB.

There are no grounds to withhold returning the deposit.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:32pm

The letter was sent a week ago saying that it had to be given back by Monday (tomorrow). But the head housemate is of to Italy Tuesday night/ Wednesday Morning and won't be back for three and half weeks. The letter says if the money is not returned by 3pm then a court date will be issued. How long does these usually take to go to court ? And if it goes to court does that mean the head housemate can turn around to the rest of us and go hand over 100 each to pay the girl.

KERSPLAT! · 04-05-2014 3:33pm

Where is the money now?

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:34pm

Does the PRTB deal with tenant to tenant issues?

h2005 · 04-05-2014 3:34pm

What do the rest of your housemates think. Withholding the deposit against everyone else's wishes would be very strange behaviour.

Mint Sauce · 04-05-2014 3:35pm

Did the new tenent pay a deposit, this should have gone straight to your former housemate. Sounds like she make every effort to find a replacement for her self on the lease, including continuing to pay the rent and bills whilst replacment was found.

if she had left and no replacment found, and you had to pay the remainder of the rent till replacement found, then I would fully understand keeping the deposit paid by the new housemate to cover some of your costs. Have done the exact same my self to cover extra expences when housemates left without finding a replacement for a lease.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:35pm

the Head housemate has it as per the lease all rent must be transferred through one person only i.e her. So he transferred the deposit back to her.

martinr5232 · 04-05-2014 3:37pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

The letter was sent a week ago saying that it had to be given back by Monday (tomorrow). But the head housemate is of to Italy Tuesday night/ Wednesday Morning and won't be back for three and half weeks. The letter says if the money is not returned by 3pm then a court date will be issued. How long does these usually take to go to court ? And if it goes to court does that mean the head housemate can turn around to the rest of us and go hand over 100 each to pay the girl.

Who has the money ?? Housemate or landlord ??

Who made this socalled head housemate spokesperson for all the tennants ??

Did the new housemate pay a deposit ??

shruikan2553 · 04-05-2014 3:37pm

Paulw wrote: »

The deposit should be returned in full. If you have a new tenant (who should have paid a deposit), then the leaving tenant is due their deposit back.

The person who left should immediately lodge a complaint with the PRTB.

There are no grounds to withhold returning the deposit.

The PRTB isnt much use unless it is the landlord holding the deposit. I think the case here is new person gave the tenant in charge the deposit so unless the tenant in charge gave it to the LL theres not much the BRTB can do about it.

HauntedHouse wrote: »

The letter was sent a week ago saying that it had to be given back by Monday (tomorrow). But the head housemate is of to Italy Tuesday night/ Wednesday Morning and won't be back for three and half weeks. The letter says if the money is not returned by 3pm then a court date will be issued. How long does these usually take to go to court ? And if it goes to court does that mean the head housemate can turn around to the rest of us and go hand over 100 each to pay the girl.

Still had a week to get it done. In my opinion the rest of you should not have to pay anything, the head housemate has the money (assuming she did not hand this to the landlord) so she would have to pay.

Boldberry · 04-05-2014 3:39pm

I think you have to tell the landlord that you think the 'head' housemate has stolen the money, no way around it. What happened to the month that the new housemate handed over? Has she proof of who took it? Or that she paid it.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:40pm

the other housemates are appalled and the poor girl that took over is having panic attacks cause she didn't do anything wrong. we all though it was fine until the letters and next thing we know she is going on holiday.

So do I just report her to the PRTB and look proactive in case it does go to court?
Of course I will say this to her first.

glic71rods46t0 · 04-05-2014 3:44pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

The PRTB isnt much use unless it is the landlord holding the deposit. I think the case here is new person gave the tenant in charge the deposit so unless the tenant in charge gave it to the LL theres not much the BRTB can do about it.

Still had a week to get it done. In my opinion the rest of you should not have to pay anything, the head housemate has the money (assuming she did not hand this to the landlord) so she would have to pay.

If you and the rest of the tenants are sure that the 'head' tenant received the deposit then the rest of ye could short the rent for next month to the value of the deposit. The 'head' tenant would have to make up the difference with the money she has already received. Ye guys give the funds taken from rent to the old tenant. Problem solved:cool:

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:45pm

The landlord refuses to get involved as it is a tenant issue and nothing to do with him.

So as the head housemate has the money we basically have to wait till court as she refuses to hand it over.

RedXIV · 04-05-2014 3:48pm

f7dm3lyt51064r wrote: »

If you and the rest of the tenants are sure that the 'head' tenant received the deposit then the rest of ye could short the rent for next month to the value of the deposit. The 'head' tenant would have to make up the difference with the money she has already received. Ye guys give the funds taken from rent to the old tenant. Problem solved:cool:

To be honest, I'd be in favour of this.

In saying that, if the lease states that had housemate handles all the money, chances are she will be the one that answers in court

shruikan2553 · 04-05-2014 3:52pm

I just thought of this, write a letter from the other tenants stating that the former tenants has left owing no money, the new tenant has paid a deposit to cover her share therefor the former tenant should receive their share of the deposit back. Have all the other tenants sign it, send it to the tenant in charge of the deposit and to the previous tenant. Try and get her to not pursue the rest of you as you technically owe her no money.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:54pm

It really depends on how long it takes to got to court for that to work, as our rent is due at the beginning of the month, so just payed and since she is away we all advanced next month rent as well(We have that in writing don't worry about that). So that is 2 months so is there any point.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 3:57pm

Would we have to get a letter like that drawn up by a lawyer to make it stick?

shruikan2553 · 04-05-2014 3:59pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

Would we have to get a letter like that drawn up by a lawyer to make it stick?

Nah, just have it to prove that if you all did go to court that it is 1 person who owes the money and is not paying it despite the others saying she should. It would work in your favour if you ended up in court or the previous tenant may just leave you out of it as there is nothing to gain.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 4:03pm

I am just getting really annoyed the girl who just moved is so panicked (her first year away from home) she is leaving but is petrified to tell the head housemate in case the same thing happens to her.

h2005 · 04-05-2014 4:17pm

You guys need to challenge the house mate on what's going on this isn't normal behaviour.

zetalambda · 04-05-2014 4:30pm

Change the locks when she's in Italy.

Paulw · 04-05-2014 4:31pm

Are all tenants listed on the lease? If so, then the landlord can't absolve himself of all responsibility by deligating financial responsibility to a single tenant. All deposits should be held by the landlord. The fact that a "head tenant" is holding the money is not a reason to not take a case to the PRTB. There was a valid tenancy.

Sounds like this "head tenant" is claiming the money for themselves. No wonder she can go on a holiday. The person who left definitely has a claim and should get a full and total refund.

suds1984 · 04-05-2014 4:40pm

So the head tenant has money belonging to the former tenant and refusing to give it to them. I believe this would be theft so get the guards involved. When the guard has a word with the head tenant then I bet it won't be long before they return the money to the former tenant.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 5:08pm

I just checked with the girl that moved in, the a deposit was taken from her but the landlord just gave it to the head girl and told her to give her to the girl that moved. So he never actually held the deposit in his account, so I don't think I can report him for that.

He doesn't care because he is getting the rent every month and has the total deposit amount.

I didn't think the guards cared amount this type of thing, surly they will just say that you need to sort this out in court.

martinr5232 · 04-05-2014 5:15pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

I just checked with the girl that moved in, the a deposit was taken from her but the landlord just gave it to the head girl and told her to give her to the girl that moved. So he never actually held the deposit in his account, so I don't think I can report him for that.

He doesn't care because he is getting the rent every month and has the total deposit amount.

What reason has she given for not returning the girls money ??

Is she subsidising her holiday with this girls money and maybe your months rent ??

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 5:22pm

the reason was that the girl lived in the house and didn't think it was fair that the girl moved hence leaving us liable for the final year she said that if we lose money at the end we need something to reimburse ourselves with (me and my fellow roommates think this insane). I tried to explain to her that this is a different lease so you cannot blame her for things that happen when the lease is changed i.e when she is not here. This is her excuse now but this has changed twice in the last couple days and It will probably change again to fit the situation.

we have it in writing from the LL that he won't charge us for next month as it is already payed. I don't think it would be too clever to piss the rest of us off as well.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 5:27pm

I just looked this up, this is the definition of theft in Ireland.

" theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."

So perhaps she could be reported to the Guards.

Boombastic · 04-05-2014 5:29pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

I just looked this up, this is the definition of theft in Ireland.

" theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."

I tell her she has 24 hours to return the money or you'll be reporting her to the gardai for theft

Paulw · 04-05-2014 5:31pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

I just checked with the girl that moved in, the a deposit was taken from her but the landlord just gave it to the head girl and told her to give her to the girl that moved.

He took the deposit. He is the landlord. That means he is responsible. Who he handed it to after that doesn't matter. He is responsible.

The tenant that left is due the deposit back in full. Taking it to court will definitely annoy a judge and will not go well for the head tenant. The tenant who left will get a very quick judgement and whoever has the deposit will be in trouble. Full repayment of deposit and maybe even costs against her too. It could be expensive for her, since it would have to go to the district court and not the small claims court. So, solicitors would be involved.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 5:34pm

why would it go to the district court as it is under a certain amount of money?? I thought it was just the small claims court.

CatFromHue · 04-05-2014 5:35pm

The head housemate is in the wrong here.

If the new housemate paid her deposit then there's a pile of cash floating around with no purpose when it should have gone to the departing housemate.

As H2005 says this is very strange behaviour, this isn't a complicated transaction here. I would consider it stealing what's happened.

keysersoze0330 · 04-05-2014 5:41pm

I'd be handing no more money over to this 'head tenant', for rent or otherwise. Are the rest of the bills actually being paid? Is she going to Italy or doing a bunk. All seems a bit too quick.

Paulw · 04-05-2014 5:43pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

why would it go to the district court as it is under a certain amount of money?? I thought it was just the small claims court.

The small claims court won't hear private disputes like this. It would have to go to the District court. - http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument

But, it really should be lodged with the PRTB as soon as possible too.

shruikan2553 · 04-05-2014 5:59pm

My mistake, I thought small claims court was for any money things below 2k, not just consumer vs business. PRTB can deal with this. New housemate gave money to the landlord, landlord is to give this to the previous tenant who hasnt received it. Its up to the LL to give back the deposit so it is still his/her problem. The LL should give her back her deposit and go through procedures to get his/her money from from the head tenant.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 6:02pm

But the can PRTB force the head Housemate to give the money over?

I am also a little confused do I call the guards or do I go to the PRTB or do I get a lawyer?

Sorry there is so much information and this seems to be a grey area in Ireland from what I looked at online this doesn't get dealt with often. And would reporting this to the PRTB stop the landlord from renting or make it difficult for the head housemate for renting again.
I know that seems double sided but I am friends with her and the landlord is pretty fair.

Santa Cruz · 04-05-2014 6:13pm

It is not the head housemates responsibility to decide on whether the other girl broke the lease or not. That has been decided by the landlord. The bottom line here is that money was given by the landlord to the head housemate which was intended to be forwarded to the girl that left. This was not done. Though a little complicated I believe that there is a crime here and should be treated as such. It is the responsibility of the injured party to report this matter

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 6:17pm

But to who is it to be reported to???

Big Bag of Chips · 04-05-2014 6:22pm

Did the head housemate nominate herself as head? If she is so brazen about blatantly taking money that is not belonging to or owed to her, then I'd wonder has she a tidy little earner going being the head-housemate and handling all the money.

The landlord has returned the deposit. He is the only one who gets to decide if she is entitled to it back or not, and he has judged that the girl who left is entitled to it back. Did the head housemate offer to give it back? He obviously trusted her enough to pass it on.

Maybe first thing you could do is tell the landlord that the other girl hasn't gotten her deposit back. Play dumb if you like, or tell him straight up that the head housemate is refusing to return it.

And then I'd be looking for somewhere else to live. This would make me lose all respect, and trust in the head housemate.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 6:27pm

It was just a role that she took upon herself. So I can't report this to the PRTB. The LL already knows but he is staying out of it, he said that he is not getting involved.

Now I am really confused.

Big Bag of Chips · 04-05-2014 6:32pm

First thing to do is let the landlord know that the girl hasn't received her deposit back.

jay1988 · 04-05-2014 6:33pm

I'd get the guards involved before she goes on that holiday, seems to me that the only reason she is doing this is to fund her trip to Italy.

HauntedHouse · 04-05-2014 6:34pm

The LL knows what is going on the girl that moved told him but he just said sort it out yourselves.

Boombastic · 04-05-2014 6:36pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

The LL knows what is going on the girl that moved told him but he just said sort it out yourselves.

Next stop gardai.

martinr5232 · 04-05-2014 6:40pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

The LL knows what is going on the girl that moved told him but he just said sort it out yourselves.

He is the one who owes the girl the money though so he cant just wash his hands of it.
Its him she should be chasing not you its him she had a contract with and he was happy for the old tennant to get a new tennant to take over the original lease and take money from the new tennant as a deposit.

King of Pork · 04-05-2014 6:46pm

HauntedHouse wrote: »

It was just a role that she took upon herself. So I can't report this to the PRTB. The LL already knows but he is staying out of it, he said that he is not getting involved.

Now I am really confused.

When she gets back tell the grabbing tart you are going to the gardai immediately of the deposit isn't returned.

Boombastic · 04-05-2014 6:48pm

King of Pork wrote: »

When she gets back tell the grabbing tart you are going to the gardai immediately of the deposit isn't returned.

I'd give her the ultimatum before she goes. She might not have it when she comes back.

Roommate refuses to return deposit

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