The demise of the Suckler herd

TheSunderz

Was browsing through the journal lately and found a nice article featuring a large suckler man 100 cows+ (very efficient producer), yet as usual the consideration for entering milk was discussed towards the end.

Is this the slow demise of the suckler herd? (in the east anyway). Will the west remain their only stronghold or will we see black and whites everywhere? (im not against dairying or its expansion btw, considering it myself).

of course there will be always part-time suckler men who are efficient at their job but is there a future for full time, commercial suckler/beef farming or will it require a fertile herd of at least 100 cows min? and with how the factories are treating us and the abundance of cheap imports will our quality beef product slowly fade?

Your thoughts?

blue5000

Ya read that article and I think the lad has 290 acres incl 70 rented in one block, he is changing from bulls to steers. I don't think the article says how many cows he has, but the stocking rate is probably fairly low. If you consider what that farm would make in dairying compared to sucklers who could blame him.

munkus

Can't imagine managing a herd of 100 sucklers. There's be less work with dairy.

freedominacup

I was on five farms in the past twelve months that had over 100 sucklers, three of them had over 150 and of that three two of them had full pedigree continental herds. They were selling some breeding stock and in one case finishing everything else. They all had one thing in common, they had all started milking and were winding up the suckler operation.

feartuath

2013 I calved 31 cows
2014 I calved 23

The stock bull was sold last year and I have 14 cows served to AI bulls so far and I am finished,that is the total number i will keep for next year.
Most of my weanlings are sold as store cattle but I think it is more cost efficient to buy weanlings than produce them.

willfarmerman

TheSunderz wrote: »

Was browsing through the journal lately and found a nice article featuring a large suckler man 100 cows+ (very efficient producer), yet as usual the consideration for entering milk was discussed towards the end.

Is this the slow demise of the suckler herd? (in the east anyway). Will the west remain their only stronghold or will we see black and whites everywhere? (im not against dairying or its expansion btw, considering it myself).

of course there will be always part-time suckler men who are efficient at their job but is there a future for full time, commercial suckler/beef farming or will it require a fertile herd of at least 100 cows min? and with how the factories are treating us and the abundance of cheap imports will our quality beef product slowly fade?

Your thoughts?

there will be plenty of sucklers left. You would think by the crap being touted that we were about to lose an rare endangered specie of panda or something! And if you did a blind taste test of so called quality suckler beef and dairy cross beef are you so sure that that the beef is inferior quality? Conformation only guarantees more meat yield on the individual animal. Not the tenderness and succulent quality that matters to the consumer. The single suck system doesn't make sense and never has made sense. It has never payed without subsidies. If you can't make a living on your acres quit moaning sell up to someone who can. The world doesn't owe you a living producing something because you like doing it.

agriman27

I agree with Will, I think there will still be a good few sucklers left even if some bigger producers change to dairy in better parts of the country. There is still a lot of the country farming marginal land and smaller farm sizes which could still produce lots of cattle but with a ageing generation of farmers I think it will shrink down to a smaller herd over the coming years. IMO there will have to be financial incentives aimed at younger farmers encourage lads to breed good quality cattle not just get into numbers with rubbish cattle, sucklers are tough work for the returns. I believe there is a lot of young lads can't face getting into bigger numbers of cows because infrastructure is obsolete and there is no financial assistance to reclaim, drain and fence land which is badly needed in wet parts of the country which produce weanlings not suited to dairy

moy83

What will it mean to the country if the suckler herd shrinks to nothing anyhow ?
If we are hoping for grants and incentives to help keep it afloat we will be waiting until its too late more than likely if its left up to politicians to take notice .
There are no fulltime farmers left relying on sucklers around me anymore and I think the game has changed massively since I was young . Just look at all the crap associated with keeping cows now compared to years ago , I mean all the paperwork , regulations , factory specs , stocking rates and slurry storage to name a few . All that just to keep a few cows to get a weanlin that wont leave alot of $ .
I can't speak for the rest of the country but around here (betdown west of Ireland lad ) the suckler herd might have been as small as two cows mooching around a few acres at the house or twenty left out on the mountain and brought down to a few good gardens to put a bit of meat on the calves before selling . A right industrious lad with some good land would keep them and sell them as stores at 2 years old .
It was anything but intensive and the money which was better wasnt as hard earned as it is now .

paddysdream

blue5000 wrote: »

Ya read that article and I think the lad has 290 acres incl 70 rented in one block, he is changing from bulls to steers. I don't think the article says how many cows he has, but the stocking rate is probably fairly low. If you consider what that farm would make in dairying compared to sucklers who could blame him.

Think you forgot about the 750 ewes on the farm as well!

TITANIUM.

willfarmerman wrote: »

there will be plenty of sucklers left. You would think by the crap being touted that we were about to lose an rare endangered specie of panda or something! And if you did a blind taste test of so called quality suckler beef and dairy cross beef are you so sure that that the beef is inferior quality? Conformation only guarantees more meat yield on the individual animal. Not the tenderness and succulent quality that matters to the consumer. The single suck system doesn't make sense and never has made sense. It has never payed without subsidies. If you can't make a living on your acres quit moaning sell up to someone who can. The world doesn't owe you a living producing something because you like doing it.

A touch on the harsh side will. ....

jfh

750 ewes & 100 sucklers :eek:, how many were working on the farm?

blue5000

jfh wrote: »

750 ewes & 100 sucklers :eek:, how many were working on the farm?

In theory that would only account for 75 acres, I'd say from june on they are toppers for the cattle.

moy83

blue5000 wrote: »

In theory that would only account for 75 acres, I'd say from june on they are toppers for the cattle.

It would be interesting to know when its all accounted for if the dairy would put much more in his pocket than the 750 ewes and and 100 sucklers . If the sheep and sucklers were ran pretty well on one block of land would he get away with just seasonl help ?

blue5000

I was thinking about this last night, that farm could probably produce 1m litres of milk. Lambs are making good money this year, last couple of years have been ok for beef, when you take off the set up costs to switch to dairying there is probably very little advantage in dairying.

paddysdream

blue5000 wrote: »

In theory that would only account for 75 acres, I'd say from june on they are toppers for the cattle.

Must be pretty good land where you come from!!
Making up the livestock units as;

110 suckler cows at .9;99 lu
200 followers at say .4;80 lu
750 ewes at .2;150 lu
Thats roughly 329 livestock units,not bad on less than 300 acres methinks.

Farmer Pudsey

750 ewes would require about 150 acre at 5/acre. On the most efficient farms it hard to see much more than 50% of lambs drafted by mid June unless he is in early lamb. Over the last 5 years early lamb has not been the most profitable due to factory dropping prices too early.

If that is the case then he is running 100 sucklers on 140 acre and finishing all cattle. He is fairly heavily stocked in that case. Assuming he is producing his own replacement and finishing all culls I say he is stocked at or above the 170kgsN/HA.

His O/P/year would be about 1100 lambs 47 bulls/bullocks, 37 heifers and 10 cull cows. Allowing that he is very efficient will he obtain a margin of 80/ewe and 500/suckler unit. This gives him a margin of 110K.

He be capable of running a 200 cow herd on the home block @ 6K litres/cow(if he is efficient he do this in his sleep as it must be a top class farm with his stocking rate) so 1.2million litres. If he is a top class beef farmer more than likely he be a good dairy farmer maybe with a margin of up on 15c/L( assuming an average of 33c/L milk price) so maybe a margin of 180K/ year.

munkus

moy83 wrote: »

money which was better wasnt as hard earned as it is now .

Funny, ould lad told that in 1970 he bought 10 weanlings at 90 pound a head. Index linked to the pint at the time that's 1800 euro each. In the same time the average industrial wage has increased against the pint.

http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm

paddysdream

munkus wrote: »

Funny, ould lad told that in 1970 he bought 10 weanlings at 90 pound a head. Index linked to the pint at the time that's 1800 euro each. In the same time the average industrial wage has increased against the pint.

http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm

All that inflation linking can do your head in!

Neighbour told me he sold ewe lambs in the mid 1960s (unsure of the exact year he told me) for 7 pound each and the same year welders in Keenans of Bagenalstown were on strike to get 5.50 pounds per week for a 5 and a half day week.
What would that leave a lamb today?

moy83

munkus wrote: »

Funny, ould lad told that in 1970 he bought 10 weanlings at 90 pound a head. Index linked to the pint at the time that's 1800 euro each. In the same time the average industrial wage has increased against the pint.

http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm

Am I right in saying that the weekly wage was about a quarter of the price of a weanling in 63 and now the weanling just slightly more than the weeks wage ?

munkus

moy83 wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the weekly wage was about a quarter of the price of a weanling in 63 and now the weanling just slightly more than the weeks wage ?

This is just a bit of fun index linking to the pint, not true economics!

If you had money in farming back then you made a fortune on stock. The problem was to have it.

onyerbikepat

If there's no money in suckling, where is the money? Is it in finshing bulls?:rolleyes:
If there's no suckling herd then the only other option are the dairy calves. With almost all born within a 6 week period in the spring, and the factories wanting more and more younger cattle within a certain age spec, how does that work for a product in demand 365 days a year.:mad:

Cran

jfh wrote: »

750 ewes & 100 sucklers :eek:, how many were working on the farm?

He's near me top class farmer, also runs some tillage. I can tell you his farm is well costed and stocked to optimum. I don't think he has any labour bar father and wife mentioned in article

tanko

Cran wrote: »

He's near me top class farmer, also runs some tillage. I can tell you his farm is well costed and stocked to optimum. I don't think he has any labour bar father and wife mentioned in article

His wife must be wonderwoman and his father must be superman:D

gozunda

C 2002 - "Ireland currently has approximately 1 million suckler beef and 1 million dairy cows. The suckler beef herd has grown rapidly since the early 1900s from about 600,000 head to its current position"

Article based on this?
Interesting reading anyway

http://www.nuffield.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Jer_Bergin_1999_Report.pdf

Muckit

TheSunderz wrote: »

......with how the factories are treating us and the abundance of cheap imports will our quality beef product slowly fade?

Your thoughts?

Good article in farmers weekly. Link attached. Sorry about the poor pic quality. I think selling live is the key as the article refers to. It forces factories to pay market price and eliminates factory cartels. It opens up the market for the seller - the farmer. Live shipping as Reilig and others often rightly promoted, helps to keep other outlets competitive on price. It needn't be Italy though. The UK is very near and at ~€250 of a difference in irish and UK factory prices, it has to be a viable option.

Marts also serve a very valuable social function that cannot be underestimated. Pubs, high street shops, Post offices have all felt the wrath of the downturn thus limiting situations for social interactions between farmers. The mart is excellent in this regard. Where else can you get a cup of tea/scone and a chat with fellow farmers for €2?! Also most marts between sucklers and weanlings, drystock and sheep would have 2-3 sales a week. That's a lot of people brought into a town. And no better man to leave a few pound after him when things are going good.

Factories are lifeless places. Drop them at night and you'll more than likely only see the security guard at the barrier on your way in. Load them from your yard and your only seeing lorry driver. In a mart you get to compare and contrast your cattle with the next man. You don't get that opportunity from the factory.

Bord Bia regulations are a big bone of contention with me. They are definitely not helping things with their ridiculous and totally unnecessary restrictions. Consumers don't care about number of movements or under or over 30mths. Some quality criteria are necessary but the current ones need to be relaxed somewhat without compromising the quality of the end product or what the bord bia stamp should mean.

The quicker the use of dairy sexed semen becomes widespread the better. This needs to be made a priority. Poor quality dairy bred fresians, holsteins or God forbid jersey male calves need to be non existent. They are poor converters of grass to meat and so have no place in the beef sector. Let the dairy farmer breed his/her number of replacements to quality sexed AI semen and then perhaps as an incentive be given a subsidy to use a quality beef AI straw on the rest of his cows.

This would all hopefully ensure that issues that occurred with the bull beef situation never happen again.

All those that intend to persist with bull beef should be on contract with the meat factories. Hoofing €500/head of meal into an animal you would want to be. Those animals to be feed ad lib would want to have the genetic potential to be finished from 13-14mths.

Timmaay

blue5000 wrote: »

I was thinking about this last night, that farm could probably produce 1m litres of milk. Lambs are making good money this year, last couple of years have been ok for beef, when you take off the set up costs to switch to dairying there is probably very little advantage in dairying.

Is the investment really that high for say a chap with 100sucklers switching over to 100milking cows? He should have the housing and slurry, and a decent paddock arrangement as is. Main thing would be a decent cowlane system, (lets call it 1k of roadways at 10e/m, or 10k), 10/12 unit parlour, 50k, tank 10k, (grants for both) holding yard 10k, thats 80k in total. Can well be done for less, afew decent threads over the last year here on boards about parlour setups.

paddysdream

Cran wrote: »

He's near me top class farmer, also runs some tillage. I can tell you his farm is well costed and stocked to optimum. I don't think he has any labour bar father and wife mentioned in article

You ain't a million miles from me so!
Looked at your homepage (what else to do of a bank holiday sunday night) and its less than 10 miles,maybe 4 as the crow flies.

rushvalley

Does anyone think there will be a return to double suckling on marginal land that isn't suitable for intensive dairying ?

moy83

rushvalley wrote: »

Does anyone think there will be a return to double suckling on marginal land that isn't suitable for intensive dairying ?

I dont think so , people dont have the time for it now I'd say . Nothing wrong with it if you had the time ( and patience ) though .

paddysdream

Cran wrote: »

He's near me top class farmer, also runs some tillage. I can tell you his farm is well costed and stocked to optimum. I don't think he has any labour bar father and wife mentioned in article

Think thats spot on.As far as know its just family plus seasonal students at lambing/calving.

keep going

Probably going to get my head taken off for this but isnt suckling more a lifestyle choice than a business decision and I dont mean that in a derogatory way, as in , cant or dont want to do dairy, cant or dont want to do tillage, like cattle but not good enough judge to deal in the mart or whereever cant like not to having to ggo out buying all the time

moy83

keep going wrote: »

Probably going to get my head taken off for this but isnt suckling more a lifestyle choice than a business decision and I dont mean that in a derogatory way, as in , cant or dont want to do dairy, cant or dont want to do tillage, like cattle but not good enough judge to deal in the mart or whereever cant like not to having to ggo out buying all the time

Id say there is definitely an element of that to sucklers alright . I suppose if you keep a few heifers every year for breeding you wouldnt feel getting a good bunch of weanlins for selling every year without actually spending a ball of money on drystock every year which probably suits alot of lads aswell

Timmaay

keep going wrote: »

Probably going to get my head taken off for this but isnt suckling more a lifestyle choice than a business decision and I dont mean that in a derogatory way, as in , cant or dont want to do dairy, cant or dont want to do tillage, like cattle but not good enough judge to deal in the mart or whereever cant like not to having to ggo out buying all the time

I'd say dairying is a lifestyle choice for maybe 50% of farmers also in fairness!

jcb411abuser

keep going wrote: »

Probably going to get my head taken off for this but isnt suckling more a lifestyle choice than a business decision and I dont mean that in a derogatory way, as in , cant or dont want to do dairy, cant or dont want to do tillage, like cattle but not good enough judge to deal in the mart or whereever cant like not to having to ggo out buying all the time

well if there isn't a suckler farmer there isn't any pure beef breeds to buy, so someone has to rear them if those type of breeds are to continue being used.
i can't see dairy beef being good enough quality for the industry though, probably not holstein continental crosses and definitely not pure holstein. we use fleckvieh(dual purpose simmental) cattle for our dairying and will rear the bulls and surplus heifers for beef aswell, i'd say you'll see alot of dairy farmers keeping bulls for beef again but not sure how successful holstein crosses will be.

jcb411abuser

onyerbikepat wrote: »

If there's no money in suckling, where is the money? Is it in finshing bulls?:rolleyes:
If there's no suckling herd then the only other option are the dairy calves. With almost all born within a 6 week period in the spring, and the factories wanting more and more younger cattle within a certain age spec, how does that work for a product in demand 365 days a year.:mad:

once quotas go there will be a big shift in the way dairying is done in ireland, as long as no one signs any of these ridiculous contracts the market will favor the farmer, and especially a system that can supply even amounts 365 days a year. you'll see dairying supplies being more even and calving spread out to meet that, processors won't want a glut of milk that they don't have capacity for and then a winter with no milk and no business. irish farmers are our own worst enemy when it comes to seasonal supply, having this oversupply in spring just gives processors a good excuse to cut the price, yet when they are hungry in winter and pay more few can take advantage of it.

so i'd say you'll see more calving all year round or atleast spring and autumn calving systems becoming more popular and this will meet the beef demand.

Farmer Pudsey

Timmaay wrote: »

Is the investment really that high for say a chap with 100sucklers switching over to 100milking cows? He should have the housing and slurry, and a decent paddock arrangement as is. Main thing would be a decent cowlane system, (lets call it 1k of roadways at 10e/m, or 10k), 10/12 unit parlour, 50k, tank 10k, (grants for both) holding yard 10k, thats 80k in total. Can well be done for less, afew decent threads over the last year here on boards about parlour setups.

I totally agree too many get caught up in first day costs. IMO, any major efficient beef farmers change costs should not be as expensive as some think. Stock costs should be lower, a good quality suckler cow will be more expensive than an average to goodish dairy cow or heifer. I have seen a few that make the change and stock C/O costs are not an issue. In most cases there is an excess over expenditure. The biggest issue is the level of housing for stock and the adaptation costs.

rushvalley wrote: »

Does anyone think there will be a return to double suckling on marginal land that isn't suitable for intensive dairying ?

Yes I think it will return using younger cull dairy cows and cheap calves.

moy83 wrote: »

I dont think so , people dont have the time for it now I'd say . Nothing wrong with it if you had the time ( and patience ) though .

With the right setup and using dairy cows it will not be labour intensive there is abig difference between adding a calf to a suckler cow and putting 2-3 calves under a dairy cow

keep going wrote: »

Probably going to get my head taken off for this but isnt suckling more a lifestyle choice than a business decision and I dont mean that in a derogatory way, as in , cant or dont want to do dairy, cant or dont want to do tillage, like cattle but not good enough judge to deal in the mart or whereever cant like not to having to ggo out buying all the time

Yes for many it is some people have a hang up about sending cattle to slaughter. Look at all the farmers that will look at a heifer and think that it will make a great cow as opposed to how will she K/O

jcb411abuser wrote: »

well if there isn't a suckler farmer there isn't any pure beef breeds to buy, so someone has to rear them if those type of breeds are to continue being used.
i can't see dairy beef being good enough quality for the industry though, probably not holstein continental crosses and definitely not pure holstein. we use fleckvieh(dual purpose simmental) cattle for our dairying and will rear the bulls and surplus heifers for beef aswell, i'd say you'll see alot of dairy farmers keeping bulls for beef again but not sure how successful holstein crosses will be.

Sexed semen will change all that there is a 5-700 euro difference between the cost of a suckler calf and a dairy bred calf that is 120-150 difference in DW not including grading hard to make up this difference.. The biggest issue with dairy bred crosses is the percentage of dairy bred bull calves if you can educe that to 9-15% of heifers produced you change the whole dynamics of an industry. Not just from a local perceptive but we could be importers of beef bred calves from dairy herds.

Cran

paddysdream wrote: »

You ain't a million miles from me so!
Looked at your homepage (what else to do of a bank holiday sunday night) and its less than 10 miles,maybe 4 as the crow flies.

Hope you liked the page, should have stayed in reading it myself bit worse for wear this morning

Muckit

moy83 wrote: »

Id say there is definitely an element of that to sucklers alright . I suppose if you keep a few heifers every year for breeding you wouldnt feel getting a good bunch of weanlins for selling every year without actually spending a ball of money on drystock every year which probably suits alot of lads aswell

This most definitely is a big issue. But the thing with 'easy' is it doesn't always lead you to the correct conclusion! As puds said there are certain beef heifers that wouldn't be suitable for breeding yet lads would let them run with a bull because sure they're costing nothing!

I was in the mart lately and the amount of sh*t 14 &15 mth old 'weanling' heifers coming through was unreal. Only 250 ish kg if even. How could you get those to good slaughter weights under 30 mths? Or what kind of a cow are they going to make??

Zr105

keep going wrote: »

Probably going to get my head taken off for this but isnt suckling more a lifestyle choice than a business decision and I dont mean that in a derogatory way, as in , cant or dont want to do dairy, cant or dont want to do tillage, like cattle but not good enough judge to deal in the mart or whereever cant like not to having to ggo out buying all the time

Possibly for some but certainly not all.
Some choose to go the suckler route as they can then choose exactly the quality of the cattle they want to rear, rather than having to go to the mart and end up bidding on whatever comes in the gate, and having to pay quite often overinflated "there's a rush of grass i need cattle" prices that occur in the spring.

Zr105

Muckit wrote: »

This most definitely is a big issue. But the thing with 'easy' is it doesn't always lead you to the correct conclusion! As puds said there are certain beef heifers that wouldn't be suitable for breeding yet lads would let them run with a bull because sure they're costing nothing!

I was in the mart lately and the amount of sh*t 14 &15 mth old 'weanling' heifers coming through was unreal. Only 250 ish kg if even. How could you get those to good slaughter weights under 30 mths? Or what kind of a cow are they going to make??

Thats kind of the exact point i was thinking of.

And i would actually think it may become more of an issue if more of these top beef men convert to dairying as they are currently some of the people producing the better quality cattle for marts.

There seems to be a surge of people running to dairying and to give up sucklers and going to buy in, without anyone realising that this will be dropping the volume of beef calves going through the mart whilst the demand may increase from the guys changing from suckling to buying weanlings

onyerbikepat

I think people need to be careful jumping from one system to another, in chase of profit. Water, as they say, finds it's own level. What's profitable one year may not be so, the next.

Muckit

I never understood the association between suckler cows and 'marginal' land, whatever that means.

A good suckler cow to breed a quality weanling would be up on and over 800kg, that's the equivalent weight of three light heifer weanlings. Would these lighter animals not be more suitable on heavy ground than big tanks of cows?

The perceived difficulties of buying cattle in the mart most definitely puts a lot of older farmers especially off trying to buy drystock. Change is always tough. It should be no bother to young educated part timers. Practice patience practice patience and you'll be a shrewd operator in no time.

Farmer Pudsey

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I think people need to be careful jumping from one system to another, in chase of profit. Water, as they say, finds it's own level. What's profitable one year may not be so, the next.

It is often not a matter of what is profitable in one year but rather if it can ever be profitable. Farmers stocked low producing mid to low quality animals will find it hard to be profitable unless the price of beef is above 5/kg. No matter how many hoops they jump through sucklers will never yield money whether selling as weanlings, forward stores or finishing. They may not make it in any system they try.

But the real issue is at what beef price can the lad producing the upper mid to better quality weanling survive at. Can he turn a profit at 3.8-4.5/kg

Farrell

Muckit wrote: »

I never understood the association between suckler cows and 'marginal' land, whatever that means.

A good suckler cow to breed a quality weanling would be up on and over 800kg, that's the equivalent weight of three light heifer weanlings. Would these lighter animals not be more suitable on heavy ground than big tanks of cows?

The perceived difficulties of buying cattle in the mart most definitely puts a lot of older farmers especially off trying to buy drystock. Change is always tough. It should be no bother to young educated part timers. Practice patience practice patience and you'll be a shrewd operator in no time.

I do agree that if a cow is knee deep, it's difficult for her to utilize grass to feed herself let alone a calf, which means added cost with meals, shorter grazing season, poached land.
With stores, (bullocks/heifers) as your only the middle person, you'd have to ensure little owners (ba), right weights at right time of year to suit finisher. Allot of balance required

moy83

Farrell wrote: »

I do agree that if a cow is knee deep, it's difficult for her to utilize grass to feed herself let alone a calf, which means added cost with meals, shorter grazing season, poached land.
With stores, (bullocks/heifers) as your only the middle person, you'd have to ensure little owners (ba), right weights at right time of year to suit finisher. Allot of balance required

I dont think the lads that have sucklers in knee deep grass will be any different if they buy weanlins . They are what they are !

Mad4simmental

But the real issue is at what beef price can the lad producing the upper mid to better quality weanling survive at. Can he turn a profit at 3.8-4.5/kg[/quote]


+1000
This is and always was the real problem. I can never understand going into wenling sales and seeing really poor r and o garade animals. What a waste of time and money. They are trying to compete against thousands of dairy x stock.

I fully believe that there is a few bob to be made in it but you will haveto be at the top of your game and the best of best stock to have a chance. Atleast this leaves you with the export market as an option.

The more that get out of it the better as far as I can see less compitision.

I can see myself having to try run the farm at much the same intensity as a good dairy farmer which probably wouldn't have to be done a few years ago. I'm up for the challenge and have grate love for it so I suppose that's a help to.

agriman27

Muckit wrote: »

I never understood the association between suckler cows and 'marginal' land, whatever that means.

A good suckler cow to breed a quality weanling would be up on and over 800kg, that's the equivalent weight of three light heifer weanlings. Would these lighter animals not be more suitable on heavy ground than big tanks of cows?

The perceived difficulties of buying cattle in the mart most definitely puts a lot of older farmers especially off trying to buy drystock. Change is always tough. It should be no bother to young educated part timers. Practice patience practice patience and you'll be a shrewd operator in no time.

'Marginal land' is not suitable for dairying or tillage. I buy a good number of weanling heifers every year produced from these pa rts of the country, I know that there are defiantly more customers every year wanting good weanlings. If everyone starts getting out of sucklers and start buying instead of selling the whole thing is buggered. I often think to myself how can lads justify keepin a small number of sucklers but I for one am dam they do!

Muckit

That's madness. If you were running at the same intensity as a dairy farmer, you should be dairying. At least you'd be paid for your efforts. Why would you be running things so intensively for little reward? There's more to life.

TITANIUM.

Muckit wrote: »

A good suckler cow to breed a quality weanling would be up on and over 800kg,

Completely disagree there muckit.
Suckler herd here has cows like you describe 800kilos + and also smaller handier sized cows. But the quality of the weanlings we produce are (and im not just blowing my own trumpet) outstanding.our cows still have a residual milk ability going back to our dairy days and it makes some difference. No good in having massive cows eating all round them and feck all milk to drive the calf on. All cows are AI bred here and you can really see the quality come through.

Mad4simmental

Muckit wrote: »

That's madness. If you were running at the same intensity as a dairy farmer, you should be dairying. At least you'd be paid for your efforts. Why would you be running things so intensively for little reward? There's more to life.

No interest in dairy farming never had. Not downing it atall but it's just not me.

I don't think it's as bleak as allot of people make it out to be but AI cows and Ai calves must be used along with good grass management and proper pre calving diet. Spring calving to keep the cost down.
I plan to export all bulls and kill all heifers.

I know there is more to life but iv just cum from a few years on the mines in OZ up at 4 every morning, do a 12 hour day back to camp at 6. Dinner, shower and bed for 4 weeks in a row, few days off and go agen.
A few extra hours on the farm is a walk in the park compared to that prison camp. And to be honist I love it.

Muckit

I assume by your name you are all simmental? Would you sell any of your heifers as replacements? Great demand and prices to be got for them in Ballymote and other specialist replacement sales