The Best Side in Ireland?

Music Matters

What do people think now the HEC has ended for Irish sides?

For me its Ulster, best first XV, should have beaten Saracens with 14 men and did well to beat Leicester away.

I think Munster/Leinster are roughly equal, with Munster on an upward trajectory and Leinster downward, at least while MOC is in place.

As a Leinster supporter its depressing, the players are there for the most part, need to sign a lock and a centre, but just one good performance in the season and things seemingly disimproving since the NH game, its hard to get excited about next season.

For Ireland though its great, players coming through at all 4 provinces and one of the best coaches in the world in charge. Really hope we make the most of the next few years under Joe, as we should have more to show from the last decade at international level

former legend

Hang on there til I get my popcorn out of the microwave.

TBH, if Payne hadn't been red-carded, this conversation wouldn't arise.

Tox56

This can only end well

I think Ulster have the best team (not squad) but although they were unlucky against Saracens they have failed to get the job done a few too many times over the last few seasons for my liking.

If there was a final tomorrow I wouldn't back them against either Munster or Leinster

its_phil

Munster are making a strong case again after being relegated to number 3 for a couple season. The playoffs will be the decider.

Grandpa Hassan

former legend wrote: »

Hang on there til I get my popcorn out of the microwave

It's only the OP's 8th post. He probably thinks this will turn into a sensible and well reasoned discussion

.ak

Connacht.

Tomtom364

Hagz

It's too even. Ulster probably had the best individual talent this year, but they have no silverware to show for it. Munster got the farthest in Europe, but does that mean they can claim the top spot? Or is it simply down to the varying difficulty of pools. I think it's all pretty level at the moment.

Taco Corp

Clontarf

Swiwi.

Seriously? Please read the forum charter...

I guess I'll say Connacht, everyone's other team (except for Connacht supporters of course...)

Diabhal Beag

.ak wrote: »

Connacht.

With a fully fit Mrs. Parks no question.

touts

Bruff under 9s. Savage feckers. Would put the fear of god into the all blacks.

danthefan

I don't really care about some pissing contest - I want to see Leinster win a trophy this season. It's the only measure really.

bilston

The three provinces are probably roughly equal. Ulster's XV is probably the best on paper but Munster may be the smartest and Leinster the most experience of winning and to be fair the majority of the Irish team is from Leinster.

Actually the more I think about it I haven't a clue.

Neil3030

Clontarf

Music Matters

Tox56 wrote: »

This can only end well

I think Ulster have the best team (not squad) but although they were unlucky against Saracens they have failed to get the job done a few too many times over the last few seasons for my liking.

If there was a final tomorrow I wouldn't back them against either Munster or Leinster

Thats true, they have been mentally fragile, I don't think its as bad as it was but certainly something that could affect them more than Leinster or Munster

Swiwi. wrote: »

Seriously? Please read the forum charter...

Eh?

DrFloppy

Torf

Swiwi.

Music Matters wrote: »

Thats true, they have been mentally fragile, I don't think its as bad as it was but certainly something that could affect them more than Leinster or Munster




Eh?

If the thread doesn't end up as Leinster v Munster at the O.K Coral you will have done well.

ScrubsfanChris

Douglas RFC under 8's

Must we do this every couple of weeks any chance we can end this with "it's awsome that all 3 at among the top 5-6 sides in Europe

Stan27

In fareness connacht are starting to improve. Would be interesting to see where they are in 3 years time!!!

Hagz

touts wrote: »

Bruff under 9s. Savage feckers. Would put the fear of god into the all blacks.

I don't think they actually would to be honest. The All Blacks are the best team in the world.

Todd Toddington III

Well technically the national team are the best side on the island, first time in a few years we can say that.

B0X

It's very tough to say really. In my opinion (as a Leinster fan) I'd probably go:
Ulster
Munster
Leinster

I think if the Payne card never happened I think we'd be seeing Ulster in the final now, I also think they have an excellent squad with the best 9/10 axis in the country.
That being said they haven't won anything in a long while and maybe inexperience is hurting them.

Munster have been impressive this season but have slipped up a few times in the league (though who hasn't?). They're definitely the most improved team in my opinion and ran Toulon really close today.

Leinster have been very consistent in the league and are deservedly top. Their form in the Heineken didn't impress me bar that away game versus Northampton. Poor handling and tactics along with poor player selections meant they couldn't get further than the QF (Though reaching that QF was a pretty good achievement considering the tough group stages).

Each of the top 3 provinces are now in the running for the knock out stages of the Rabo. It's hard to know who'll come out top there, we cant forget there is an excellent Glasgow side going for a home semi too.
Any province could each beat the other and it's probably the closest it's been in years to parity.

CatFromHue

At the moment I'd say Leinster.

Top of the Rabo and came out of the hardest group in the HEC.

tbm

Hagz wrote: »

I don't think they actually would to be honest. The All Blacks are the best team in the world.

It's the game everyone wants to see.

Podge_irl

I think I'd still go with Leinster for now but the top 3 are all very, very close.

jacothelad

Ulster's long term problems are related to three things.

1) Terrible luck with injuries especially at crucial times. For example, going in to the last three league games against the top three sides without Best, Afoa, Tuohy, Wilson, Ferris, Pienaar, Wallace, Olding and long term injury to McAllister and a few other decent squad players means Ulster's season has probably sunk with land in sight. It's not about mental fragility, it's about broken bones and strained joints.

2) Getting on the wrong end of some less than favourable refereeing calls at crucial times hasn't helped. every team gets them but there are several that have cost Ulster dearly. even the t.m.o. at Glasgow is getting in on the act...:D:D

3) Having to rely on players like McIlwaine, McComish, McComb, McKinney, Stevenson who are either just passable or downright unsuitable. Some of them make NOC look like Carter.

bilston

jacothelad wrote: »

Ulster's long term problems are related to three things.

1) Terrible luck with injuries especially at crucial times. For example, going in to the last three league games against the top three sides without Best, Afoa, Tuohy, Wilson, Ferris, Pienaar, Wallace, Olding and long term injury to McAllister and a few other decent squad players means Ulster's season has probably sunk with land in sight. It's not about mental fragility, it's about broken bones and strained joints.

2) Getting on the wrong end of some less than favourable refereeing calls at crucial times hasn't helped. every team gets them but there are several that have cost Ulster dearly. even the t.m.o. at Glasgow is getting in on the act...:D:D

3) Having to rely on players like McIlwaine, McComish, McComb, McKinney, Stevenson who are either just passable or downright unsuitable. Some of them make NOC look like Carter.

Probably a debate for the Ulster thread Jaco but you're maybe a bit harsh on Stevenson!

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Probably a debate for the Ulster thread Jaco but you're maybe a bit harsh on Stevenson!

Maybe. He's the passable one out of that list. I wouldn't want him out of the squad but compared to Tuohy, Henderson and Muller he's not great. I'd actually prefer Diaxck in the 2nd row to be honest. He looks a revelation there. Steveo's a willing worker, no more than that I'd say. The rest are pretty merde.
Edit. McComb could have been good.....

.ak

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Clontarf

Neil3030 wrote: »

Clontarf

DrFloppy wrote: »

Torf

Well yeah, obviously.

BazPM

In the last 5 years Leinster have won 3 Heineken cups, 1 Rabo and an Amlin. In that time Munster have won a Rabo and Ulster have won nothing. I think it's pretty obvious who the best team in Ireland is until another team actually goes and wins something

chupacabra

BazPM wrote: »

In the last 5 years Leinster have won 3 Heineken cups, 1 Rabo and an Amlin. In that time Munster have won a Rabo and Ulster have won nothing. I think it's pretty obvious who the best team in Ireland is until another team actually goes and wins something

This isnt a thread based on history. Its a thread based on the form of the provinces this season. I reckon its fairly even between Munster Leinster and Ulster. As was already said, the play offs will be telling.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BazPM wrote: »

In the last 5 years Leinster have won 3 Heineken cups, 1 Rabo and an Amlin. In that time Munster have won a Rabo and Ulster have won nothing. I think it's pretty obvious who the best team in Ireland is until another team actually goes and wins something

Yes but none of that is relevant to who is the best side in Ireland at the moment.

Larbre34

Put a poll up sure, hopefully people will vote for who they objectively think rather than their home province.

Im a true blue and I still think the best side is Ulster, based on their squad potential, their dynamism, their versatility. Saying that, with all their injuries will they beat both Leinster and Munster over the next fortnight? Probably not.

Every dog has its day and you can rarely compare they top 3 provinces accurately, because at the times of the season they do meet there is usually player management going on which muddies the water.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

In my opinion the three are so close it's impossible to say.

ArmchairQB

chupacabra wrote: »

This isnt a thread based on history. Its a thread based on the form of the provinces this season. I reckon its fairly even between Munster Leinster and Ulster. As was already said, the play offs will be telling.

So what just forget Munster bet the All BlackS:)

ArmchairQB

On a serious note they are all fairly even and home field advantage usully decides but Leinster as top of the League shade it for me and whoever wins the Rabo after the playoffs will have bragging rights

CatFromHue

ArmchairQB wrote: »

On a serious note they are all fairly even and home field advantage usully decides but Leinster as top of the League shade it for me and whoever wins the Rabo after the playoffs will have bragging rights

Yeah I'd agree but I'd add that while Munster made the SF of the HEC Leinster and Ulster's pools performance were much better.

Utah_Saint

Ulster on paper

Leinster on cold hard facts & trophies

errlloyd

It's weird, I feel Ulster have a very strong 15, Munster have a very strong 23, and Leinster have a very strong 50. Now you could accuse me of being unfair on the Ulster subs bench, its more a poetic expression of a feeling than an actual debatable statistic.

Digifriendly

If we go by results this season Leinster and Munster are ahead of Ulster (I'm an Ulster supporter BTW). The Rabo run in will reveal a lot I feel (although Glasgow are my tip to win it.). So let's see how things go over next few weeks.

CatFromHue

The Interpros this season are:

Leinster 22 (1T) 18 (0T) Munster
Leinster 19 (1T) 6 (0T) Ulster
Leinster 16 (1T) 13 (1T) Connacht

Connacht 7 (1T) 18 (2T) Ulster
Connacht 23 (3T) 32 (4T) Munster
Connacht 8 (1T) 16 (1T) Leinster

Munster 22 (1T) 16 (1T) Connacht
Munster 19 (1T) 15 (0T) Leinster
Munster - Ulster Still to play

Ulster 29 (2T) 19 (3T) Munster
Ulster 58 (8T) 12 (2T) Connacht
Ulster - Leinster Still to play


Leinster P5 W4 L1 17pts 4Tries
Munster P5 W3 L1 14pts 9Tries
Ulster P4 W3 L1 13pts 12Tries
Connacht P6 W0 L6 2pts 9Tries

A win for Leinster in Ulster and they'll be the Interpro Champs this season.
Equally if Ulster beat Leinster, with Leinster getting a LBP, and lose to Munster getting a LBP and not conceeding 4 tries then 3 teams will finish on 18pts and 4 wins each! Ulster will then win it on tries scored.

sydthebeat

That 4 try statistic is a damning indictment, even if we are so far ahead in the league. And we aren't going to get a bag full in ravenhill either.

Grimebox

ABM

Phonehead

The team that wins or get's the furthest in the Pro12 is the best team.

bilston

sydthebeat wrote: »

And we aren't going to get a bag full in ravenhill either.

The ways things are going for us you might!

Fireball07

Very hard to say, so I will say Munster, because I like them the most :pac::)



I do think we're no worse than Ulster, Leinster anyway. But it depends on what criteria you use. Who would win a match in a neutral venue with everybody fit? Or do you say who has the strongest squad? Or simply who has been playing better in the last few games?

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

The ways things are going for us you might!

I know your decimated with injuries, but we have stuttered terribly through this season. I think we will be lucky to get a losing bonus point, ye will want it more.

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

I know your decimated with injuries, but we have stuttered terribly through this season. I think we will be lucky to get a losing bonus point, ye will want it more.

Yea, but you have stuttered to a serious amount of bonus point wins this year.

Looking at this from a purely neutral viewpoint!

I really like Ulster and was gutted for them losing the quarter final but while they have enjoyed some good victories in the last few years, until Ulster win a trophy of note its hard to make an argument for them.

In general I still think its Leinster but that gap has narrowed significantly due to the loss of significant players, change of coach, the fact that Leinster have made up the bulk of the Irish team. I think Munster have moved a few steps up the ladder after a messy transition last year but are still short in some critical positions.

The Heineken Cup is the pinnacle but the groups can be very distorted at times. For example, Munster's group this season will be similar to one Connacht may get in the Challenge Cup next season. Similarly Leinster got a poor group a couple of years back which facilitated a handy path to the semi-finals.