Automatic gearboxes are the work of the devil etc.

GvidoR

thread split from bangeromics

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

This is a steal !

If I was changing car I'd be all over this like a fly on ****e

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/6837024

I think you got it mixed up with a manual Volvo V70R.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GvidoR wrote: »

I think you got it mixed up with a manual Volvo V70R.

nope, would rather this ! and these cars definitely automagic

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i think it looks horrific, particularly in silver. all ****ty unpainted chunky plastic mouldings, tiny wheels lost in the arches, un co-ordinated steering wheel colour and such.

looks like something the salesman would flog to your elderly dad that he didn't really want or need.

thats why i like it.... it looks rough and will make children cry and sick !

AWD , 2.4 T auto, approx 200BHP and a big oul comfy wagon with heated seats.....

im in love again but with another volvo ! :eek:

GvidoR

V70R has a 2.5 turbocharged engine making almost 300BHP, so yeah. Also don't know why you'd want it automatic.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GvidoR wrote: »

V70R has a 2.5 turbocharged engine making almost 300BHP, so yeah. Also don't know why you'd want it automatic.

because its better in automatic... had an s80 2.0T in auto and it was so smooth and a pleasure to drive

im not that fussed for speed, not like i'd be speeding everywhere everyday !

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i see your point KSL, it seems good on paper. just a shame they couldn't wrap it up in a sleeker package.

I know some people would want it to look nice and smooth all around but i dont mind the shabby look on a car like that,

just means i can play bumper cars and not really care !

Brian

thread split from bangeromics




http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mazda-mx5-1-6-cabriolet-new-nct28022015/6660047
€1800

Pros:
NCT 02/15
Hardtop

Cons:
No tax - €500
High mileage - 180k km

Brian

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mazda-mx5-1-6-cabriolet-new-nct28022015/6660047
€1800

Pros:
NCT 02/15
Hardtop

Cons:
No tax - €500
High mileage - 180k km

Brian

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mazda-mx5-1-6-cabriolet-new-nct28022015/6660047
€1800

Pros:
NCT 02/15
Hardtop

Cons:
No tax - €500
High mileage - 180k km

Top Dog

Brian wrote: »

Cons:
No tax - €500
High mileage - 180k km

Is 180k km really considered high mileage these days? Thats barely over 11k km per year, or 110k miles in old money

kil

Brian wrote: »

Cons:
No tax - €500
High mileage - 180k km

Cons:
Automatic

Don't think 180k km is high. Unless the seller is deliberately listing the mileage as km when it is in miles.

Guy:Incognito

I really don't get what people issue is with automatics. Changing gears is similar to any other chore that has been done away with by advancement like not having to wind up your own bloody windows.

Everyone seems to think they have Ayrton Sennas' feel for a car and it's gears when the reality is the car knows much better when to change and what gear to be in.ive managed just fine on winding country roads in an s80 auto with no sense wanting to be up and down the gear clutching at every corner.

Maybe we should all be cranking our cars with a handle through the grille, getting flies in our teeth and having to wear a duffle coat every time we go out in the car on a cold day or the only way to cool it is open a window.

CharlieCroker

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I really don't get what people issue is with automatics. Changing gears is similar to any other chore that has been done away with by advancement like not having to wind up your own bloody windows.

seems to think they have Ayrton Sennas' feel for a car and it's gears when the reality is the car knows much better when to change and what gear to be in.ive managed just fine on winding country roads in an s80 auto with no sense wanting to be up and down the gear clutching at every corner.

Because the mx5 has one of the nicest gear changes on the road. It's like a bolt action rifle.

Can't understand why anyone would want an automatic one but obviously some people in Japan did.

Auto in a Merc = good
Auto in sports car = bad

Guy:Incognito

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Auto in a Merc = good
Auto in sports car = bad

Ferrari seem to disagree , but sure what would they know :-)

jimgoose

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I really don't get what people issue is with automatics. Changing gears is similar to any other chore that has been done away with by advancement like not having to wind up your own bloody windows.

Everyone seems to think they have Ayrton Sennas' feel for a car and it's gears when the reality is the car knows much better when to change and what gear to be in.ive managed just fine on winding country roads in an s80 auto with no sense wanting to be up and down the gear clutching at every corner.

Maybe we should all be cranking our cars with a handle through the grille, getting flies in our teeth and having to wear a duffle coat every time we go out in the car on a cold day or the only way to cool it is open a window.

Because some of us enjoy the feel of a good oul' honest ta Cheeses Fordson Tractor five-speed. And, many traditional fluid-coupling-and-planetary-gearset automatics are unpleasantly woolly and are never quite in the right gear for either acceleration or economy. Some of the new automated-manual and/or dual-clutch setups are quite nice, but there are displeasing examples as well.

jimgoose

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ferrari seem to disagree , but sure what would they know :-)

Fúck-all. I wouldn't have a Ferrari in my way - I'd buy a Jaguar F-Type and two new houses. :cool:

CharlieCroker

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ferrari seem to disagree , but sure what would they know :-)

Ferrari use an automated twin clutch manual gearbox as opposed to the torque converter fitted to the MX5.

Guy:Incognito

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Ferrari use an automated twin clutch manual gearbox as opposed to the torque converter fitted to the MX5.

The point is little to do with what make sup the box that's stuck to the engine. I'm classing anything where the driver isn't changing gears themselves as automatic.

Car doing the gear changers = auto

Manual gear changing for the vast vast majority of drivers is a redundant exercise.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

We're not in the stone age.

Gear changing should be a thing of the past..... look at the americans with all their autos !

I think its just unheard of over here.... anytime ive had anyone in my volvo they kept asking how was I changing gear without doing anything

Actually had to explain how autos work and that theres only 2 pedals...

People just crap themselves when they hear it and their terrified of them just because they dont understand it.

I will always support and recommend autos ... thats even with driving a manual at the moment but I will be going back auto... plenty more comfort and less hassle !

jimgoose

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

...Manual gear changing for the vast vast majority of drivers is a redundant exercise.

It's a redundant exercise that they're stuck with. Traditional autoboxes are like tits on a bull on the small cars that are most common here, and folk won't spring for a Toyota Yaris with an eight-speed ZF dual-clutch jobbie.

RayCon

It's strange the Auto V Manual arguement ... when Im in the US - I actually enjoy the convenience of driving around in an auto (even if I do get a bumper car vibe off it). Maybe cos Im on my holidays so I associate everything with taking it easy.

Back home , I never once considered buying an auto ... hhhmmmmm , maybe I should*



















* or maybe Im getting old.

CharlieCroker

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The point is little to do with what make sup the box that's stuck to the engine. I'm classing anything where the driver isn't changing gears themselves as automatic.

Car doing the gear changers = auto

Manual gear changing for the vast vast majority of drivers is a redundant exercise.

Well, you brought up the Ferrari angle.

Anyway, i'll agree that most people who have no interest in cars would probably be happy out in an auto but for those with an interest in driving, going for a blast on a Sunday morning etc, in that type of car, then a manual is the only way.

I've owned a few and driven plenty of automatic cars, from old torque converters to newer dual clutch boxes and I'd still prefer a manual in that type of car.

So as I said:
Auto in a merc = good
Auto in a sports car = bad

This is only my opinion lads, the internet isnt going to explode if you disagree with me!

jimgoose

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

...I think its just unheard of over here.... anytime ive had anyone in my volvo they kept asking how was I changing gear without doing anything

Actually had to explain how autos work and that theres only 2 pedals...

Jaysis - where is "here", Ghana??

jimgoose

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Well, you brought up the Ferrari angle.

Anyway, i'll agree that most people who have no interest in cars would probably be happy out in an auto but for those with an interest in driving, going for a blast on a Sunday morning etc, in that type of car, then a manual is the only way.

I've owned a few and driven plenty of automatic cars, from old torque converters to newer dual clutch boxes and I'd still prefer a manual in that type of car.

All depends on the humour, and even on the car to an extent. A big, wallowy Mercedes is a perfect candidate for auto. So are most Jags - my own Jag is a very rare five-speed manual, which I am nuts about as it happens!

Guy:Incognito

jimgoose wrote: »

All depends on the humour, and even on the car to an extent. A big, wallowy Mercedes is a perfect candidate for auto. So are most Jags - my own Jag is a very rare five-speed manual, which I am nuts about as it happens!

It doesn't have to be a big wallowy Merc though. What's the average fiesta or yaris driver doing that they'd need to be in a manual. If anything most of the ones I encounter could do with one less distraction to draw their attention.

jimgoose

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It doesn't have to be a big wallowy Merc though. What's the average fiesta or yards driver doing that they'd need to be in a manual. If anything most of the ones I encounter could do with one less distraction to draw their attention.

Have you ever driven a litre-or-thereabouts car with an automatic box? The power-loss is often enough to effectively kill them!

CharlieCroker

I used to work for a car rental company with automatic Micra's on fleet. *shudder*

Guy:Incognito

jimgoose wrote: »

Have you ever driven a litre-or-thereabouts car with an automatic box? The power-loss if often enough to effectively kill them!

I had the misfortune to have to drive a 98 micra when I was stuck for a car. It was no more cap because of the auto box and I managed to drive it on the motorway just fine having been used to much bigger cars.

GvidoR

Apparently I have started a thread... interesting.

colm_mcm

GvidoR wrote: »

Apparently I have started a thread... interesting.

Read mod note on first post

jamesr123

All the ford auto boxes are rubbish. The m has a 2007 auto focus and it's a horrible yoke to drive. Very lumpy, slow and a bastard on petrol compared to the manual.

saying that, I recently drove an automatic swift and loved it.

I'd rather a manual for my own car though.

Moneymaker

Honestly it's a personal taste, and it should be treated as such. I don't like people who prefer manuals turning their noses to people who prefer automatics, and vice versa.

Let people drive what they want to drive.

Oh and that Volvo is awesome, Automatic all the way in that. **** the haters. :pac:

As an aside the 525 is a manual and tbh i'm not too keen on it. Even the father who HATES, HATES automatics doesn't like it.

pcardin

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

We're not in the stone age.

Gear changing should be a thing of the past..... look at the americans with all their autos !

I think its just unheard of over here.... anytime ive had anyone in my volvo they kept asking how was I changing gear without doing anything

Actually had to explain how autos work and that theres only 2 pedals...

People just crap themselves when they hear it and their terrified of them just because they dont understand it.

I will always support and recommend autos ... thats even with driving a manual at the moment but I will be going back auto... plenty more comfort and less hassle !

Amen!

Manual gearbox was supposed to be moved to transport museum as soon as automatic one was invented.

GvidoR

pcardin wrote: »

Amen!

Manual gearbox was supposed to be moved to transport museum as soon as automatic one was invented.

I disagree.

I love switching gears, and I couldn't picture myself driving a car with an automatic gearbox. Going through narrow and bendy roads is awesome, especially if the engine has a bit of power too.

The new Seat Cupra has a nice 1.6 turbo engine producing 201 bhp, but they only make them with automatic gearboxes. I hope others manufacturers (especially Volkswagen) don't follow what they did.

colm_mcm

Gvidor, will you please go and test drive a car with DSG gearbox

GvidoR

It would be feel weird test driving a car that I can't afford or have no interest in. Perhaps, that's the reason why a good few ads say "no test pilots".

colm_mcm

VW factor test pilots into the price.

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

VW factor test pilots into the price.

MuppetCheck

GvidoR wrote: »

I disagree.

I love switching gears, and I couldn't picture myself driving a car with an automatic gearbox. Going through narrow and bendy roads is awesome, especially if the engine has a bit of power too.

The new Seat Cupra has a nice 1.6 turbo engine producing 201 bhp, but they only make them with automatic gearboxes. I hope others manufacturers (especially Volkswagen) don't follow what they did.

It's a 1.4 180bhp Ibiza and that combo is in the Fabia VRS and Volkswagen Polo GTI. I seriously considered a Fabia VRS for a while and it's a cracking little car to drive, and I generally prefer manuals. In fact any DSG car I've driven has never left me disappointed or thinking the manual would be better. I think you need to broaden your motoring horizons and try one of them and come back with an opinion then.

challengemaster

I know technically there's no distinction for this debate, but there really needs to be one between an automatic and a flappy paddle/SMG/DSG/equivilent. Yes they're considered automatic, but IMO they're not.

If you have direct input to gear changes then it's not automatic. The word automatic means exactly that - something that occurs spontaneously or independently.

I'm aware the line becomes even more obscured by the fact these all have full auto modes, but it also helps prove a point. An SMG M3 in full auto mode is known to be horrible to drive. Full auto mode is lazy (I'd like to see anyone that calls changing gears a chore disagree). It's not designed for performance, and Lazy does not go hand in hand with sports cars. It does suit couches on wheels/luxobarges.

There's also times where manuals stop suiting, but you're into actual performance cars there where those ms difference in gear changes actually mean something. A lambo with a manual gearbox for example, it's more because the owner prefers manual (you could say for show) rather than for performance.

Automatic gearboxes aren't the devil. They serve a purpose, like everything, but full autos really aren't designed for people that enjoy the experience of driving and WANT to have the input of changing gears.

Oh, and *Sweeping statement* Americans are horrendously lazy. Saying "look at all them with their autos" could easily be "look at all them with their obesity". Choose your idols wisely.

Stephen

I moved to America 5 years ago, and as anyone who has been here has probably noticed, almost everyone drives cars with automatic transmissions. Most models that aren't performance oriented simply aren't available with manual transmissions, and most American drivers don't know how to drive a manual. I held out for a while, having had a manual Mustang and a manual Challenger, but now I drive a Jeep with an 8-speed auto and that thing is smooth as butter. It has the flappy paddles for when you want some manual control. I never use them. Can't say I miss the manual box unless I'm driving something that's supposed to be driven fast.

However, if I was driving a typical Irish-spec 4-cyclinder ****box with about 100 bhp, you can be sure I would not opt for the auto

Toyotafanboi

i had a 1992 1.1 pushrod fiesta with an autobox. got the car for free. to be honest it was very acceptable, can't really imagine it was any slower than a comparable manual fiesta... you could still spin the wheels, drop down a gear and dog it a fair bit.

i like autos... ended up with the astra gtc manual 6 but had a gook at a few sciroccos with DSG, they seem enjoyable.

the vast majority of the time, people who slate autos are people who have never even driven/ owned one.

jackofalltrades

challengemaster wrote: »

I know technically there's no distinction for this debate, but there really needs to be one between an automatic and a flappy paddle/SMG/DSG/equivilent. Yes they're considered automatic, but IMO they're not.

Manual = clutch pedal and manual gear selector
Semi automatic = no clutch pedal and manual gear selector
Automatic = no clutch and automatic gear selection (with the option of telling the computer what gear you'd like)

DSG is definitely an automatic.

If you have direct input to gear changes then it's not automatic. The word automatic means exactly that - something that occurs spontaneously or independently.

You can manual select gears on most automatics out there, but they're still automatics.

Satanta

The first auto I owned was a mivec fto. The car done 48mph in first and 80 in second. I normally drove it using the tiptronic mode and loved it. After that I switched to a Peugeot 407 2.0 hdi with auto/tip and when I wanted to I used to, bus mostly used the auto mode.

Then I got a mapped 520d manual and while I enjoyed driving it emensely I hated driving around town. Constant gear changing and clutching at junctions. Jeez if I could have swapped it for an auto I would have.

I now drive a touareg auto and enjoy driving in town again. And just driving in general. If I want a bit of a push I'll switch to using tip but for 95% of my driving the auto is king. Gear changing is way over rated. If you want an 'engaging' experience on twisty roads tip is grand. If you want to do track days at modello, go manual.

I wish ireland wasn't so full of auto haters. Then there would be a bigger pool of 2nd hand cars for me to choose from. Example... I was looking at the mazda cx-7. They are 260 brake and awd. Nice car. Only available in manual. My 25 year old self would have loved it, but I don't want to go back in time

Big Nasty

There's only two reasons one should have a manual car.

1) Racecar

2) Sub 2L daily

Guy:Incognito

Big Nasty wrote: »

There's only two reasons one should have a manual car.



2) Sub 2L daily

Again, I don't see why.Most of them pootle about and/or sit in traffic and commuting. Auto would be ideal.



EDIT: at random I picked an 04 1.6 Golf from parkers for comparison. MPG is within 3 of each other. 0-60 times are .2 of a second different and top speeds are 2mph different. No reason not to have an auto

Big Nasty

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Again, I don't see why.Most of them pootle about and/or sit in traffic and commuting. Auto would be ideal.

As much as I love an auto anything sub 2L is gutless.

Guy:Incognito

Big Nasty wrote: »

As much as I love an auto anything sub 2L is gutless.

But the manuals are generally as gutless so it makes no difference. (see Golf comparison above). Sitting in commuting traffic is exactly the time to have an auto .

Big Nasty

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

But the manuals are generally as gutless so it makes no difference. (see Golf comparison above). Sitting in commuting traffic is exactly the time to have an auto .

As fookin sad as it is when you have to sit behind the wheel of a Micra / Yaris / Colt the only thing that makes it worse is an auto.

Like I said, I've been in autos for years but to suggest a 1.3L auto is crazy dude. ; (

Guy:Incognito

Big Nasty wrote: »

As fookin sad as it is when you have to sit behind the wheel of a Micra / Yaris / Colt the only thing that makes it worse is an auto.

Like I said, I've been in autos for years but to suggest a 1.3L auto is crazy dude. ; (

I drove an auto micra for a bit.It's probably the least powerful auto available. It's no worse than being in a manual. Changing gears in a small car doesn't enhance the experience.

Toyotafanboi

Big Nasty wrote: »

As fookin sad as it is when you have to sit behind the wheel of a Micra / Yaris / Colt the only thing that makes it worse is an auto.

Like I said, I've been in autos for years but to suggest a 1.3L auto is crazy dude. ; (

i really don't see why. if it's chronically underpowered, it's chronically underpowered no matter what box it has. you can rag the manual to try and wring all the "power" out of it, you can stamp on the pedal in an auto just as hard to squeeze whatever power is there.

eg, the auto variant of the 1.3 starlet is only 1 second to slower to 60mph than the manual. i'd say that gap is even less in a more modern car. look at your watch, could out 1 second and tell me that that's a long time.

Guy:Incognito

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i really don't see why. if it's chronically underpowered, it's chronically underpowered no matter what box it has. you can rag the manual to try and wring all the "power" out of it, you can stamp on the pedal in an auto just as hard to squeeze whatever power is there.

eg, the auto variant of the 1.3 starlet is only 1 second to slower to 60mph than the manual. i'd say that gap is even less in a more modern car. look at your watch, could out 1 second and tell me that that's a long time.

In reality its probably no slower anyway. I doubt the majority of people , even with banging it through the gears like would be required to match the official 0-60, would know where the sweet spot to change is .

Big Nasty

It may be no different on paper but without a doubt you can screw more gusto from a 1L manual Micra than you will from an auto.

Don't forget, this is the converted preaching here.