The Dublin West 2014 By-Election Thread

Zaph

For all your by-election needs. Same rules as the local elections thread apply:

NO politician bashing - this isn't about slagging off X candidate or Y party, it's about getting proper discussion going on what issues face Dublin 15 and what the candidates can expect to be grilled on.

NO politicians - feel free to keep an eye on this thread, but this thread is for your potential future constituents only.

Political affiliations - if you're going to be involved in campaigning for a candidate or in the organisation of any party/group's campaign, you must declare this in your first post in this thread.

Final list of candidates:

Fianna Fail
David McGuinness

Fine Gael
Eamonn Coghlan

Sinn Fein
Paul Donnelly

Labour Party
Loraine Mulligan

Socialist Party
Ruth Coppinger

Green Party
Roderic O'Gorman

Fís Nua
Daniel Boyne

Independents/Others
David Hall
John Kidd
Sean Lyons

chucknorris

I'll get the obvious out of the way.

I'm heavily affiliated to David McGuinness.

'hides behind the keyboard, anticipating snappy replies'

Larbre34

^^^ Interesting quandry, which poll is Mr McGuinness going to run in? Presumably cant run in both

Morag

He can and if elected to the CC and then to the Dáil he nominates someone to take on the CC position.

ciaran76

The papers are saying Anita Lenihen (Brian's sister) will run for FF also?

I have no idea who she is bar who she is related to. Thinks its not right if she gets in just because of that.

ThisRegard

Morag wrote: »

He can and if elected to the CC and then to the Dáil he nominates someone to take on the CC position.

Which is how that Paul Murphy got his plum job when he never ran for election. Jobs for they boys as his party is so fond of saying.

chucknorris

ciaran76 wrote: »

The papers are saying Anita Lenihen (Brian's sister) will run for FF also?

I have no idea who she is bar who she is related to. Thinks its not right if she gets in just because of that.

The papers are saying she'll run for convention, in an effort to be selected to run in the by-election. All will be revealed next week I'm sure.

My personal opinion is that whomever runs in the by-election should not run in the local election. I know of two candidates that will be running in both for sure.

Garrigai

chucknorris wrote: »

The papers are saying she'll run for convention, in an effort to be selected to run in the by-election. All will be revealed next week I'm sure.

My personal opinion is that whomever runs in the by-election should not run in the local election. I know of two candidates that will be running in both for sure.

I agree, pick either the CC election or the bye-election.

Grudaire

I'll be helping out with Roderic O'Gormans campaign (Green) if he does run in the bye-election.

I would agree that candidates should generally choose one or the other and I'd be lying if I said Joe Higgins didn't lose my respect for singly handedly getting elected and handing off both a Councillor and MEP role..
Although it's a bit of an trivial choice when the likelihood of getting elected in a bye-election is quite slim..

Kiwi_knock

I am split on whether you should run for either or both. On the one hand if the person loses the by-election the community are deprived of a good representative, as it will be a sitting councillor most likely running. On the other hand if they get elected to both you are stuck with a co-opted councillor you would not have elected.

chucknorris

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I am split on whether you should run for either or both. On the one hand if the person loses the by-election the community are deprived of a good representative, as it will be a sitting councillor most likely running. On the other hand if they get elected to both you are stuck with a co-opted councillor you would not have elected.

That's a fair point.

The likely socialist candidate may be in for some explaining on that front as she currently holds three jobs. Hopefully an educated electorate might question three jobs and two separate elections bids.

Garrigai

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I am split on whether you should run for either or both. On the one hand if the person loses the by-election the community are deprived of a good representative, as it will be a sitting councillor most likely running. On the other hand if they get elected to both you are stuck with a co-opted councillor you would not have elected.

Good point. What is the thinking behind there not being a by-election for a Council or European seat?

Zaph

Garrigai wrote: »

Good point. What is the thinking behind there not being a by-election for a Council or European seat?

I'd imagine there are none on cost grounds. There are a lot of councillors around the country and there's probably a reasonable turnover on many of them (Fingal alone has had 4 co-options since the last elections). There would have been a fair amount of logistics involved for 4 council by-elections in what are relatively small electoral areas. Similarly the European Parliament constituencies are very large (the rest of the country outside Dublin is now only two constituencies) and there'd be a lot involved in organising an election for a single seat.

LoonyLovegood

As I said in the other thread, I'm involved with SF in college, but I'm not involved in campaigning for the elections in Dublin.

I'll be moving home a lot sooner because of this by-election. The main questions I'll be asking EVERYONE who comes to the door are:

a) student grants, fee hikes and lack of options for people who realise they're in the wrong course after a year or so
b) mental health issues, and the health service in general and the complete lack of care that Connolly provides due to overcrowding
c) dole cuts for under 26s, and that anyone under 26 is assessed on their parents income, not the income they themselves may have been receiving before losing their job.

athtrasna

Larbre34 wrote: »

^^^ Interesting quandry, which poll is Mr McGuinness going to run in? Presumably cant run in both

He has stated on the record that he will only contest one election. Unfortunately the Bye-Election writ is unlikely to be moved before nominations close for the locals so he would still appear on both ballot papers.

I know this because I asked him, I'm not a FF voter but am sometimes a lesser of two evils voter when it comes to my preferences beyond number 1 so was reassured to hear that.

On the Anita Lenihan thing, this sickens me almost as much as Coppinger being likely to mount a dual run. I've lived in D15 for 10 years, am active in a few community groups and this is the first I've heard of her. The days of no record but a name are surely behind us. Contrast this with McGuinness, he's a councillor for Mulhuddart LEA, I live in Castleknock LEA yet I'm very aware of him, his record and his work for the community.

Garrigai wrote: »

Good point. What is the thinking behind there not being a by-election for a Council or European seat?

Council co-options are up to the party/person who hands over their seats. The Euros are totally different in that when a candidate lodges their nomination papers they also lodge a list of their replacements in the event that they resign the position/pass away. These lists are publicly available...somewhere (oops, something I don't know) prior to the Election.

Larbre34

Garrigai wrote: »

Good point. What is the thinking behind there not being a by-election for a Council or European seat?

There is a list of alternates published with the Euro candidates in the polling stations, ie who would replace them in the event of getting a Dail seat etc. I would be in favour of by-elections to replace MEPs but not Councillors, they are replaced too often and have too little power to justify the expense.

Turbulent Bill

I've a dim view of anyone running in multiple elections. You expect a candidate to be committed to any role they're running for, and by definition they're not if they're in two races.

Agreed on all the poster nonsense, and there'll probably be thousands of cable ties left again...

ThisRegard

@Chuck, I hope you weren't involved in postering along the N2-N3 link road outside Tyrrelstown, your brothers posters are all at waist level there.

January

Waist level and flapping about in the wind because they weren't secured properly to the poles.

chucknorris

Nope I didn't do Tyrrelstown myself, but I've a few days off work, so will look to sort them out.

athtrasna

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Agreed on all the poster nonsense, and there'll probably be thousands of cable ties left again...

The easiest way to take down a poster is to cut the cable ties, you can also reuse the poster after. I've watched people struggle to pull posters off poles in the past, common sense goes a long way.

jack presley

athtrasna wrote: »

The easiest way to take down a poster is to cut the cable ties, you can also reuse the poster after. I've watched people struggle to pull posters off poles in the past, common sense goes a long way.

Unfortunately after recent elections when they cut the ties, some don't bother picking them up off the ground.

chucknorris

jack presley wrote: »

Unfortunately after recent elections when they cut the ties, some don't bother picking them up off the ground.

We have extended pole wire cutters. the side of the cable tie we cut, ensures the cable tie is within the poster when we recover them. There is also the lazy way to just pull the posters off - not good.

oblivious

Looks like David Mcguinness has been selected to contest Nultys vacant seat

Garrigai

oblivious wrote: »

Looks like David Mcguinness has been selected to contest Nultys vacant seat

Is he running in the by-election and the locals?

oblivious

Garrigai wrote: »

Is he running in the by-election and the locals?

Dont know, I would preseume he would go for the main seat, but can you run for both

I am sure chucknorris will fill us in on his intentions;)

January

I think it's been said (I'm not sure if I read it here or on his FB page) that he will only campaign for the by-election if he was chosen to but that because it was too late to remove his name from the local elections that he will still appear on both ballot papers so there is in theory a chance for him to win both seats??

(I'm not too clued up, someone else should know more!)

Zaph

This is what chuck said on the other thread:

chucknorris wrote: »

The problem is that the by-election maybe called after the deadline for nominations and removal of nominations from the local election register of candidates, so people maybe on the LEA forms - but decide only to contest the by-election.

So the problem there is that you could have candidates on both ballot papers who say they're only standing for the Dáil seat. So in theory they could fail to get elected to the Dáil, but because of their popularity/name recognition they pick up enough votes for the council. Will they do the honourable thing and turn down the council seat in the event of that happening?

Godge

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I am split on whether you should run for either or both. On the one hand if the person loses the by-election the community are deprived of a good representative, as it will be a sitting councillor most likely running. On the other hand if they get elected to both you are stuck with a co-opted councillor you would not have elected.

One way of solving this is to have the substitute run as the main candidate in the local elections.

So using the example of McGuinness, he would run for the bye-election and someone else (Chucknorris? ) would run in the local election with McGuinness as the first named substitute. If McGuinness lost the bye-election but Chucknorris won the local, Chucknorris could step aside to give McGuinness the seat. Everyone would know that a vote for Chucknorris in the locals was also a vote for McGuinness if he lost the bye-election.

athtrasna

Godge wrote: »

One way of solving this is to have the substitute run as the main candidate in the local elections.

So using the example of McGuinness, he would run for the bye-election and someone else (Chucknorris? ) would run in the local election with McGuinness as the first named substitute. If McGuinness lost the bye-election but Chucknorris won the local, Chucknorris could step aside to give McGuinness the seat. Everyone would know that a vote for Chucknorris in the locals was also a vote for McGuinness if he lost the bye-election.

Would require massive changes to laws. We have to deal with what we have. Council nominations close on Friday so there's time to withdraw

chucknorris

Good morning

The register for David McGuinness in respect of the local elections is today. Each person going forward, be it from any party, has been given a set day to sign the form (some were Monday and Tuesday gone). For David, it is this morning that he must sign his form for the local elections (In Swords I think).

Now here is the thing. At the time of typing the by-election has not been called because the Writ has not be moved. It is expected today, perhaps in the late evening, but there is always a chance it may not be called as the polls are not looking health for FG and Labour.

So that is the dilemma.

Regarding myself, sure i've been doing more work in Corduff and Mulhuddart than most councillors for 15 years - without any wage for it :-)

oblivious

chucknorris wrote: »

Regarding myself, sure i've been doing more work in Corduff and Mulhuddart than most councillors for 15 years - without any wage for it :-)

So are you throwing your hat into the ring then?

chucknorris

oblivious wrote: »

So are you throwing your hat into the ring then?

Nah I don't think so. By becoming elected, you are open to abuse and bullying. I would also have to curb my opinions and I couldn't operate like that. I'm very outspoken. :-)

Some of the bullying and harassment that my family have received from the Shinners via Twitter and p.ie in recent months has been out of order.
It's not the candidate that does it, but the toerags that surround them here in Dublin west.

Life is good for me at the moment and 17k a year is not worth that hassle in my life.

Garrigai

Similar to this?

http://www.theliberal.ie/would-be-labour-councillor-martina-genockey-canvassing-in-jobstown-today-literally-runs-from-constituents-questions/

Not a Labour voter but this is out of order

chucknorris

Garrigai wrote: »

Similar to this?

http://www.theliberal.ie/would-be-labour-councillor-martina-genockey-canvassing-in-jobstown-today-literally-runs-from-constituents-questions/

Not a Labour voter but this is out of order

I watched that last night on FB and I thought the behavior was disgraceful. The man in question behind the video is well known. He is aligned to multiple groups (including the socialists) etc.

I don't mind people's views on individual parties etc, but what happened there is interfering with democracy. If anyone wants to canvass etc, they should be without that harassment.

In fairness David never received any sort of abuse on the streets in Dublin west. It's online targeted bullying and harassment from a select few who troll daily.

oblivious

chucknorris wrote: »

Some of the bullying and harassment that my family have received from the Shinners via Twitter and p.ie in recent months has been out of order.
It's not the candidate that does it, but the toerags that surround them here in Dublin west..

That's completely out of order

athtrasna

With nominations closing on Friday for the locals, surely a candidate can withdraw before then and not feature on the ballot paper even if already nominated? Bye election writ due to be moved tomorrow

chucknorris

athtrasna wrote: »

With nominations closing on Friday for the locals, surely a candidate can withdraw before then and not feature on the ballot paper even if already nominated? Bye election writ due to be moved tomorrow

Not too sure. When David signed yesterday at 1pm, the council mentioned that he could re-nominate another before Friday, but I doubt there is anyone to nominate. His deadline was yesterday (in fact all from his party) was yesterday.

Something interesting has arisen. The socialists have questioned that should they win the by-election, they feel if it's their candidate, that all their first preferences in the locals should be given immediately down to their 2, 3's and 4's (assuming it'll be the AAA candidates (anti-austerity alliance).

The local authorities feel the two elections are processed separately, and should one win the by-election, it simply means they don't take up their seat on council, but are seeking legal advice.

On a final matter, I felt the lack of Dennison posters would suggest he was waiting for the outcome of the FG convention for the by-election before committing. Apparently Coughlin is running in the by-election but Dennison has still not stated anything. Perhaps he may go independent on the council?

ThisRegard

I can't believe they're trying to pull that stroke. They want to transfer votes from a person that may win the by election to their candidates in the local election ? They're unbelievable. Say for example they had a person finishing second, would they also expect to be able to have all their other candidates withdraw and transfer their votes to the one remaining person in order to have that person jump into first?

I've yet to see any canvassing anyway, I think they spent all their energy littering with their posters.

chucknorris

ThisRegard wrote: »

I can't believe they're trying to pull that stroke. They want to transfer votes from a person that may win the by election to their candidates in the local election ? They're unbelievable. Say for example they had a person finishing second, would they also expect to be able to have all their other candidates withdraw and transfer their votes to the one remaining person in order to have that person jump into first?

I've yet to see any canvassing anyway, I think they spent all their energy littering with their posters.

Hugh monies have gone in to the campaign for Paul Murphy. If the opinion polls are to be believed, they're in trouble on that front.

In fairness they do well in Dubiln west, but does the AA thing dilute the brand?

Morag

"but does the AA thing dilute the brand"
I think it does.

Garrigai

When will we have a confirmed list of candidates?

Godge

chucknorris wrote: »

Something interesting has arisen. The socialists have questioned that should they win the by-election, they feel if it's their candidate, that all their first preferences in the locals should be given immediately down to their 2, 3's and 4's (assuming it'll be the AAA candidates (anti-austerity alliance).

The local authorities feel the two elections are processed separately, and should one win the by-election, it simply means they don't take up their seat on council, but are seeking legal advice.

Easy solution to that - count the local election results first.

You cannot withdraw from the council until you are elected T.D. If you are elected councillor first then there is no issue with the council ballot.

Larbre34

Citywest conference centre is going to be a busy spot on count day, 120 council seats, the by-election and half the votes for Dublin MEPs.

Firstly the ballot boxes will be opened, tallied and the submitted ballot accounts verified. Then the votes will be separated and sent off to be counted in parallel in the different races. The issue of whether someone is deemed elected first to a Council seat or to the vacant Dáil seat will probably come down to coincidental timing

athtrasna

Larbre34 wrote: »

Firstly the ballot boxes will be opened, tallied and the submitted ballot accounts verified. Then the votes will be separated and sent off to be counted in parallel in the different races. /quote]
****************
MEP counts not until the Sunday. Has there been confirmation that the bye-election count is definitely happening Saturday?

jjbrien

Can someone tell me who exactly is running in this by-election im very confused i see all the posters up but cant really figure out who is running for what.

athtrasna

jjbrien wrote: »

Can someone tell me who exactly is running in this by-election im very confused i see all the posters up but cant really figure out who is running for what.

Full list not selected yet, FG candidate not confirmed til next week

Zaph

Closing date for nominations is 10th May, so not all have been confirmed yet. So far the confirmed candidates are:

Fianna Fail
David McGuinness

Sinn Fein
Paul Donnelly

Labour Party
Loraine Mulligan

Socialist Party
Ruth Coppinger

Independents/Others
David Hall

I'll add the list to the OP.

I think it's interesting that Ruth Coppinger is running for the council under the Anti-Austerity Alliance banner, but for the Dáil as a Socialist Party candidate. Obviously they feel that the AAA brand might not be as vote friendly for the Dáil seat, but that hopefully she has enough name recognition that she might be able to drag another candidate with her onto the council regardless of the party. She'd definitely be hoping to pick up both so that one of the others can be co-opted onto the council in her place. Not that I'd ever be cynical about the Socialist Party election strategy...

chucknorris

Zaph wrote: »

Closing date for nominations is 10th May, so not all have been confirmed yet. So far the confirmed candidates are:

Fianna Fail
David McGuinness

Sinn Fein
Paul Donnelly

Labour Party
Loraine Mulligan

Socialist Party
Ruth Coppinger

Independents/Others
David Hall

I'll add the list to the OP.

I think it's interesting that Ruth Coppinger is running for the council under the Anti-Austerity Alliance banner, but for the Dáil as a Socialist Party candidate. Obviously they feel that the AAA brand might not be as vote friendly for the Dáil seat, but that hopefully she has enough name recognition that she might be able to drag another candidate with her onto the council regardless of the party. She'd definitely be hoping to pick up both so that one of the others can be co-opted onto the council in her place. Not that I'd ever be cynical about the Socialist Party election strategy...

Paul Murphy, the Socialist European candidate has completely abandoned his Euro campaign to work on the bye-election campaign.

Grudaire

Eamonn Coghlan is running for Fine Gael: http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-west-by-election-eamonn-coghlan-1451400-May2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

He'll definitely pull some votes for FG..

Sully

chucknorris wrote: »

Paul Murphy, the Socialist European candidate has completely abandoned his Euro campaign to work on the bye-election campaign.

Source? He was on theJournal today looking for publicity as the Sheriff called to his office apparently.