How many physio sessions before you know whether it's working?

fro9etb8j5qsl2

I know it's a 'how long is a piece of string' type question Basically, I have an si joint injury and I was due to go for a cortisine injection in my back but instead opted to go for physio first to see if that would help. So far, I've had 7 sessions. I've found an improvement in the secondary pain, ie the muscles etc that are affected by the main injury but have had no imrpovement in the original injury itself. Last week, I put it out again and have spent the week in twice as much pain as I was in when I started the physio initially. I have asked the physio for a ballpark figure of how many more sessions I'll need but he is extremely vague in his replies. How many sessions would you give it before you decide that it's just not working?

username123

Ive had a lot of physio. For a lot of different issues. Including SI joint problems.

I give 6 weeks.

Ive found in my experience that when you are on the right track it is obvious from the first 2 or 3 sessions. Ive wasted thousands and time on physios nodding along saying things will heal.

The best physio I ever saw saw me once, then showed my husband how to "release" the tightened muscles to relieve the pain, beyond that I had to work myself on improving the underlying issue. That was the SI joint problem incidentally, I knew after 1 visit with this guy that we had found the issue.

Alf Veedersane

It really depends on the injury.

If you're losing confidence in your physio, try another and see if he can give you any more info.

My OH was in the same position as you a few years ago after we were in a car crash. The physio was vague about how many sessions it would take. So she went to Aidan Woods in Pearse Street Physio and he told her if he couldn't fix it in 4 sessions, it wasn't likely to be fixed at all.

It was and in 3 sessions.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

username123 wrote: »

Ive had a lot of physio. For a lot of different issues. Including SI joint problems.

I give 6 weeks.

Ive found in my experience that when you are on the right track it is obvious from the first 2 or 3 sessions. Ive wasted thousands and time on physios nodding along saying things will heal.

The best physio I ever saw saw me once, then showed my husband how to "release" the tightened muscles to relieve the pain, beyond that I had to work myself on improving the underlying issue. That was the SI joint problem incidentally, I knew after 1 visit with this guy that we had found the issue.

Thanks, I was thinking around the 6 weeks myself. I've had some relief of the tightened muscles but no improvement of the underlying issue. The reason I was asking is because I need to let the pain management specialist know what I want to do regarding further medical treatment. The physio has been honest enough to tell me that the injury might not heal but still says that once I'm seeing small improvements, I should continue going. However, the tiny amount of relief I'm getting isn't worth the time or money TBH.

username123

Amayah Wonderful Baton wrote: »

Thanks, I was thinking around the 6 weeks myself. I've had some relief of the tightened muscles but no improvement of the underlying issue. The reason I was asking is because I need to let the pain management specialist know what I want to do regarding further medical treatment. The physio has been honest enough to tell me that the injury might not heal but still says that once I'm seeing small improvements, I should continue going. However, the tiny amount of relief I'm getting isn't worth the time or money TBH.

It might be worth trying a different physio before giving up on physio itself completely. I have seen different physios for different things and by and large find that while theyre all great on general stuff, some are much better than others on specific stuff.

The other thing is that obviously, depending on the underlying issue, there might be a more appropriate non physio answer - but sometimes you have to go through trying the less invasive methods first and then work your way up.

But certainly, dont be wasting time and money endlessly, if you feel after 6 weeks that the effort is not worth the payoff - then move on.

Doug Cartel

I had post surgical problems that took literally more than a year to fix, and that involved going back to the physio several times. (Several different physios as well.) I wasn't getting constant sessions though. A string of them straight after the surgery, then a break then a session or two then a break, rinse and repeat. Sometimes you have got to just wait for time to heal you, sometimes you've got to look at alternative treatment.

If I went six sessions without seeing any real improvement, I'd probably switch to something else.

username123

Just to be clear, Im assuming a session a week when I say 6 weeks.

I know sometimes things require 2 or 3 sessions a week but in that case Id expect to see improvement in 6 sessions.

Callanutd

My experience is that you should know after 3 - 4 sessions max if the treatment is helping. Over the past couple of years I have had issues with both ankles. The first time I stuck with the physio for weeks on end even though there was no huge improvement on their advice. Eventually I required surgery so it was a lot of wasted money and time. The second time around after 4 weeks and no signs of improvement I organised an MRI as I didnt want to go through the same again. I was right again more surgery required.

nice_guy80

With the physio I have gone to for the past 3 years, I always feel improvement after one session and rarely have to return for extra treatment for soft tissue injury.

In fact, he's the sort of physio who wants to fix the problem, doesn't just treat the injury but the cause and doesn't want to see you back.

Kyro

nice_guy80 wrote: »

With the physio I have gone to for the past 3 years, I always feel improvement after one session and rarely have to return for extra treatment for soft tissue injury.

In fact, he's the sort of physio who wants to fix the problem, doesn't just treat the injury but the cause and doesn't want to see you back.

This is what I want. Often I get the impression that some of my physios don't try too hard to fix my injuries - and would rather drag it out a bit to get me back for another few sessions. Of course this may not be true at all - just the impression I got.

nice_guy80

Plus, at €30 for 45 minutes he's great value too.
I hate him, but for the right reasons

asteroids over berlin

i question this profession, perhaps there are good physios but the 3 i have been to were more concerned on me returning than on fixing me, maybe i felt a little unloved by them!

Alf Veedersane

I've only really had two experiences with physios and both were positive - they both treated the injury and showed me how to prevent having to go back to them.

username123

Ive had mixed experiences, with both private and public physios.

One particular "famous within the circles" physio I went to was a serious money grabber, and she was appallingly horrible to have as a physio. You would hear her fawning over perceived important clients, then being snappy to the ordinary joe soaps. I stopped going to her because besides her bad attitude she was happy to take money off me week after week and no improvement and then when I got a second surgeons opinion who told me that only surgery could fix the problem and no amount of physio would help she told me she had thought that all along but that it wouldnt have been her "place" to contradict the original surgeon. Horrible horrible woman.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Plus, at €30 for 45 minutes he's great value too.
I hate him, but for the right reasons

Is 45 minutes the norm for a session? The physio I see is supposed to be one of the best in the area, he treats a lot of rugby players/hurlers etc. He charges €40 per session. I would have assumed that each session would last at least half an hour, however, I have never spent more than 20 minutes in a session (it's usually only 15 minutes unless I am having major problems).

Kyro

Amayah Wonderful Baton wrote: »

Is 45 minutes the norm for a session? The physio I see is supposed to be one of the best in the area, he treats a lot of rugby players/hurlers etc. He charges €40 per session. I would have assumed that each session would last at least half an hour, however, I have never spent more than 20 minutes in a session (it's usually only 15 minutes unless I am having major problems).

Sometimes that's all that is necessary. 30 minutes to 60 minutes would be the norm I think - depends on the physio really and how much you'll pay.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

username123 wrote: »

Ive had mixed experiences, with both private and public physios.

One particular "famous within the circles" physio I went to was a serious money grabber, and she was appallingly horrible to have as a physio. You would hear her fawning over perceived important clients, then being snappy to the ordinary joe soaps. I stopped going to her because besides her bad attitude she was happy to take money off me week after week and no improvement and then when I got a second surgeons opinion who told me that only surgery could fix the problem and no amount of physio would help she told me she had thought that all along but that it wouldnt have been her "place" to contradict the original surgeon. Horrible horrible woman.

This is shocking But I suspect there are many people in professions like this who are more than happy to take money week after week knowing that they can't actually help.

username123

Amayah Wonderful Baton wrote: »

This is shocking But I suspect there are many people in professions like this who are more than happy to take money week after week knowing that they can't actually help.

Oh yeah, and at 75 quid a session it wasnt cheap!

Plus, half the time she would not even bother to see you personally but simply put you in a curtained cubicle where youd be lucky to see one of her minions for 10 minutes. Lots of time wasted on attaching various machines or being given some minor bit of stretching to do and then youd wait another 20 minutes for someone to come back to you. Youd be there over an hour but youd be lucky to get 15-20 minutes of personal attention.

Very well respected name in the circles though. Clearly theyve never been a patient of hers!

nice_guy80

Machines?
Once a physio produces a machine, get out of there.

Chancers

Kyro

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Machines?
Once a physio produces a machine, get out of there.

Chancers

Exactly what I thought. My physio just stuck some machine on so she could go work on another patient for 10 minutes. Then she'd do the same to them and come work on me.

TGJD

Amayah Wonderful Baton wrote: »

Is 45 minutes the norm for a session? The physio I see is supposed to be one of the best in the area, he treats a lot of rugby players/hurlers etc. He charges €40 per session. I would have assumed that each session would last at least half an hour, however, I have never spent more than 20 minutes in a session (it's usually only 15 minutes unless I am having major problems).

I mean no offence, but it seems you are being robbed there to be honest. I pay 50 euro for an hour usually. Now and then if the problem is bad enough and it takes a little longer its still the same price. As to the op, I normally am fairly fixed up in one session unless my injury is fairly bad. Last year I had 4 for a very bad triceps injury. I have had facet joint injuries and muscular problems all sorted in one session. I've never gone out of there not feeling at least a bit better but the guy always asks me how it feels and checks to make sure it has improved or he tries something else. I find you need to go to a good physio though as some will just rob you blind, whether on purpose or lack of ability I don't know but I went in to a physio years back you had me in for around 10 sessions at 70 euro a pop and by the end I'm pretty sure the injury just healed by itself. I was told everytime that pain I was feeling was caused by a disc bulge in my lower back and told to stay away from loads of stuff I was doing in training. she dismissed any other possible cause and I was in agony for a good portion of most days. After easing off the injury came back as bad as ever two months later, I went to the physio I now use, he diagnosed a muscle spasm in my hip causing nerve impingement, one session, one hour, walked out pain free and could do whatever I wanted. Flares up now and then if I don't keep flexible but never takes more than one session to fix for months and months again. So it all depends who you go to. Some genuinely want to fix the problem as fast as possible, some will just milk it.

TGJD

Kyro wrote: »

Exactly what I thought. My physio just stuck some machine on so she could go work on another patient for 10 minutes. Then she'd do the same to them and come work on me.

I assume you mean acupunture needles attached to a current? Those are very common in physical therapy and actually extremely effective for issues caused by muscle spasms. Most would be sceptical about it alright but it is a scientifically proven treatment method although it is used with general tissue work before and after it rather than by itself.

username123

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Machines?
Once a physio produces a machine, get out of there.

Chancers

Well this one had a variety of machines. Tens, which is common enough, and while it can have some benefits, I never felt any good from it. She also had a stretching type machine for stretching your spine. And she had some kind of torture chair that measured the force of your various muscles once you were hooked up. It was awful, because you may have shown good muscle strength but functionally you couldn't use the joint, but as far as she was concerned, once the machine showed a certain figure that was what she would report to the consultant and if you said that you still couldn't do anything you were treated like a bold child.

nice_guy80

username123 wrote: »

Well this one had a variety of machines. Tens, which is common enough, and while it can have some benefits, I never felt any good from it. She also had a stretching type machine for stretching your spine. And she had some kind of torture chair that measured the force of your various muscles once you were hooked up. It was awful, because you may have shown good muscle strength but functionally you couldn't use the joint, but as far as she was concerned, once the machine showed a certain figure that was what she would report to the consultant and if you said that you still couldn't do anything you were treated like a bold child.

Ha!
Any decent physio should know how strong your muscles are after working on them and also your flexibility after taking your limbs through a few exercises. Just by using their hands!

seriously, get a new physio.

username123

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Ha!
Any decent physio should know how strong your muscles are after working on them and also your flexibility after taking your limbs through a few exercises. Just by using their hands!

seriously, get a new physio.

This was one from years ago. I was specifically sent to her by a consultant, as in, he wanted her report and hers alone. I think they may have been in cahoots business wise because he was taking money off me to insult me and do nothing to resolve the problem as much as she was. I was young and didn't really know any better at the time so I spent a year getting fleeced by the two of them to no avail. There was no interwebs then to see what other people thought or check out reviews!

calfmuscle

Im a physio and if someone doesn't see an improvement after 2 sessions I have a chat to them about where we go from there.

However sometimes people don't feel like they are making improvements but as the physio you know that their pain level may be down, or they have more range of motion. So its good to be able to point that out them and show them they are actually getting better.

Also 20 minutes is a joke! I spend 45-60 with everyone!! You cant do a decent job in 20 minutes!

jimmyRotator

nice_guy80 wrote: »

With the physio I have gone to for the past 3 years, I always feel improvement after one session and rarely have to return for extra treatment for soft tissue injury.

In fact, he's the sort of physio who wants to fix the problem, doesn't just treat the injury but the cause and doesn't want to see you back.

Whos the physio do you mind me asking?

I get injured quite a bit, and trying to find a good physio can be an expensive endeavour, always looking for recommendations for physios who give good hands-on treatment, deep-tissue massage etc, above and beyond the usual exercise prescription. Thanks!

Alf Veedersane

jimmyRotator wrote: »

Whos the physio do you mind me asking?

I get injured quite a bit, and trying to find a good physio can be an expensive endeavour, always looking for recommendations for physios who give good hands-on treatment, deep-tissue massage etc, above and beyond the usual exercise prescription. Thanks!

I know you didn't ask me directly but I'd always recommend Pearse Street Physio. I've never found them anything but top drawer, no matter which of the team I was seen by.

JJ10

it does depend on the injury you have too but still some of the prices and amount of time mentioned here is shocking! Very unprofessional and would make anyone a skeptic. I do feel that you should start to feel some benefit after session 1. If the pain is terrible then you should be able to have some minor relief after 1 session with each session after increasing mobility and decreasing pain. Session needs to be 45-60 mins i think and no more than 45-55 euro. If you're not happy with your treatment always say it straight out, a decent physio will take it on board and do their best to get you right. I've been treated by a few different physios and you can tell spoofers very quickly when you have been treated by ethical physios

How Strange

I was going to a physio for a couple of months but my back problems were getting worse instead of better. I had sciatica and it had gotten so bad that I couldn't take my shoes off and putting them on was a long process. Getting out of a chair or sitting for a long time was agony. I literally had a constant pain in my ar5e.

I started to think that I'd just have to get used to living with a certain level of chronic pain.

I went to another physio via aviva and I noticed a difference after my second visit. My appointment was max 30 mins but each time she would assess me, do some massage or whatever and then give me more exercises for the following week.

I've had 4 sessions over 5 weeks and I'm now pain free. I still have to do my exercises to strengthen up but it's unbelievable that I'm pain free and can take my shoes and socks off without any effort.