Model /drone flight over Cork City

beer enigma

Don't want to duplicate thread as I'm modding one on this in the Cork forum, but would be interested in views on this


http://youtu.be/KRgYuK4epfM

Looks like a model of some sort taking aerial photos over Cork but I'd presume he'd need some sort or permission as he covers a fair bit of the city.


Andy_g, lord_lucan & Tenger - please feel free to delete if you feel it's duplication, but it's relevant to Cork & Aviation.

Cheers

Andi

donvito99

Looking just briefly at some of the Air Transport Navigation Acts, they all refer to pilots and commander, ie. a manned aircraft.

However, from iaa.ie

An Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS), irrespective of its weight, which is not a UAS subject to the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) regulations shall not be operated in Irish Airspace without a written permission from the Authority.

From the EASA's most recent publication on the scope of its regulation of UASs

Article 1(2)  …  [Those]  engaged  in  military,  customs,  police  or  similar  services.  The 
Member  States  shall  undertake  to  ensure  that  such  services  have  due 
regard as far as is practical to the objectives of this Regulation.  Annex II (b)  aircraft  [of  any  mass]  specifically  designed  or  modified  for  research,  experimental  or  scientific  purposes,  and  likely  to  be  produced  in  very 
limited numbers. 
Annex II (d)  aircraft that have been in the service of military forces, unless the aircraft 
is of a type for which a design standard has been adopted by the Agency. 
Annex II (i)  unmanned aircraft with an operating mass of no more than 150 kg 

Growler!!!

Here's a link with more info:

https://www.iaa.ie/library_download.jsp?libraryID=956

Snowc

What a stupid and irresponsible thing to do :mad: what if it failed ,It could have killed somebody. Hopefully he will be reported and charged with reckless endangerment.

Stella Virgo

Snowc wrote: »

What a stupid and irresponsible thing to do :mad: what if it failed ,It could have killed somebody. Hopefully he will be reported and charged with reckless endangerment.

how the hell cud a plastic plane weighing less than half a kilo kill someone.....cop on and wake the **** up.

b757

Snowc wrote: »

What a stupid and irresponsible thing to do :mad: what if it failed ,It could have killed somebody. Hopefully he will be reported and charged with reckless endangerment.

Report him to Shannon Watch, I hear they are very interested in "Killer Drones".

:pac:

sully2010

Stella Virgo wrote: »

how the hell cud a plastic plane weighing less than half a kilo kill someone.....cop on and wake the **** up.

Brilliant video but it was a dodgy thing to do, it may not have killed anyone but most definitely could have hurt someone.

Having said that good battery power...I want one...watch your head Dublin!

the_syco

Stella Virgo wrote: »

how the hell cud a plastic plane weighing less than half a kilo kill someone.....cop on and wake the **** up.

Although I doubt it reach terminal velocity from that height, if it hit someone at a decent speed I'd say it would cause the person decent hurt, and possibly a concussion.

And yes, I also wouldn't mind getting one, if for nothing else, but to explore ruins, and/or explore places that I cannot physically get to.

ProfessorPlum

Stella Virgo wrote: »

how the hell cud a plastic plane weighing less than half a kilo kill someone.....cop on and wake the **** up.

It's a qudrocopter, and by the time the video equipment is strapped on, it'll weight a lot more than half a kilo, so it would do some damage if it came down on tip of your head all right.....
Anyway, plenty of rules broken, if it were me. I dont think if be so keen to be on camera!

crazygeryy

Jesus some people just love to bitch and moan. What if what if what if.
It's a brilliant video and fair play to the guy that did it. An excellent aerial view of cork city.good flying to.

But I'd say because of the whingers and moaners the authorities will crack down on the use of these drones. They have done it in New Zealand already.

radar0976

Aside from the safety issues raised (which I totally agree with) there are huge issues of personal privacy around the use of these things as well.

Personally I think they should be banned except for those who hold a licence for specific well-defined reasons.

ProfessorPlum

crazygeryy wrote: »

Jesus some people just love to bitch and moan. What if what if what if.
It's a brilliant video and fair play to the guy that did it. An excellent aerial view of cork city.good flying to.

But I'd say because of the whingers and moaners the authorities will crack down on the use of these drones. They have done it in New Zealand already.

Well, there are already plenty of laws in place regarding the operation of such aircraft, many of which the user seems to have completely disregarded. Puts those who try to operate within the law at a bit of a disadvantage, no?
And I'm guessing you're pretty happy with the 'what if what if' approach taken every time you step on a commercial jet.

REXER

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

It's a qudrocopter, and by the time the video equipment is strapped on, it'll weight a lot more than half a kilo, so it would do some damage if it came down on tip of your head all right.....
Anyway, plenty of rules broken, if it were me. I dont think if be so keen to be on camera!

Bad news Proff, you're on CCTV all over the place and we have been watching you! We know what you've been doing and where you've been.

ProfessorPlum

REXER wrote: »

Bad news Proff, you're on CCTV all over the place and we have been watching you! We know what you've been doing and where you've been.

Doh.....:/

urajoke

https://www.iaa.ie/library_download.jsp?libraryID=956

Have a read.

Id say the pilot will be getting a visit soon from IAA SRD especially considering he used his real name and videoed himself in the act.

folbotcar

Yes indeed the video shows numerous breaches of the regulations and was if nothing else irresponsible in that he flew the over a densely populated area. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

It's not an overreaction to suggest it's dangerous either. If the drone crashes. There are any number of scenarios where someone can be hurt by a falling drone.

All sorts of aviation is strictly regulated for a good reason.

He may very well be contacted by the IAA or worse.

crazygeryy

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Well, there are already plenty of laws in place regarding the operation of such aircraft, many of which the user seems to have completely disregarded. Puts those who try to operate within the law at a bit of a disadvantage, no?
And I'm guessing you're pretty happy with the 'what if what if' approach taken every time you step on a commercial jet.

the very first line of your post suggests to me that your against this in every way so theirs probably no talking to you.each to their own.

i have no idea what your comment about "what if" meant.my comment about "what if" is if you go through life saying what if the plane im on crashes or what if the bus im on hits a wall and bursts into flames,you will go crazy.

same thing with the drone, what if the battery goes dead and it falls out the sky and hits someone.what if!
im sure that guy number one knows how to fly the drone and number two has checked everything is in working order before he took off.after all he doesnt want to loose a possible seven or eight hundred euros worth of a drone.

would you have the same attitude towards a kid going to the park flying his rc aeroplane?

as for privacy where were the privacy breeches in that video?name one?

i know im not going to win an arguement about laws and regulations regarding the faa but it seems like some people in here want him caught by the faa for doing the video .i think thats pretty pathetic.
again i think its a fantastic video and i hope he does more.

IngazZagni

It looked like a pretty small flying device from the shadow it had close to the ground. I'm surprised many have got so worked up over it here.
It's got a lot of press too from the Irish Times to Joe.ie and such.

ProfessorPlum

crazygeryy wrote: »

the very first line of your post suggests to me that your against this in every way so theirs probably no talking to you.each to their own.

i have no idea what your comment about "what if" meant.my comment about "what if" is if you go through life saying what if the plane im on crashes or what if the bus im on hits a wall and bursts into flames,you will go crazy.

same thing with the drone, what if the battery goes dead and it falls out the sky and hits someone.what if!
im sure that guy number one knows how to fly the drone and number two has checked everything is in working order before he took off.after all he doesnt want to loose a possible seven or eight hundred euros worth of a drone.

would you have the same attitude towards a kid going to the park flying his rc aeroplane?

as for privacy where were the privacy breeches in that video?name one?

i know im not going to win an arguement about laws and regulations regarding the faa but it seems like some people in here want him caught by the faa for doing the video .i think thats pretty pathetic.
again i think its a fantastic video and i hope he does more.

Actually, I'm not at all against it in principal, quite like a bit of photography action myself, and I've seen some really great shots that you could really only get with this kind of set up.
You could argue that it's this guy and not the 'whingers and moaners' you were on about, that is ruining it for everyone else. There's plenty of people using RC multicopters etc to do aerial photography, but this guy has identified himself flouting pretty much every rule in the book - he's almost putting it up to the IAA to come after him - it's hard to see how they could let it slide.

My 'what ifs' are exactly your 'what ifs'. Every conceivable 'what if' scenario is examined before commercial aircraft go flying - including the various scenarios you mentioned. Aviation is very stringently regulated, and like it or not, RC flying falls into the regs - yes, even the kid with the RC plane in the park. I would expect that kid to fly safely, away from others, and not cause a danger.

As an aside, the regulating body in Ireland is the IAA (the FAA is the US), and between his drone and his photography equipment, I'd say it's a lot more than seven or eight hundred euros!

And where did I day anything about privacy??

andy_g

Stella Virgo wrote: »

how the hell cud a plastic plane weighing less than half a kilo kill someone.....cop on and wake the **** up.

Attack the post not the poster please.

Tenger

urajoke wrote: »

.....
Id say the pilot will be getting a visit soon from IAA SRD especially considering he used his real name and videoed himself in the act.

I think this was his mistake. Easy to hide behind pseudonym online and keep any identifying images offline.

Remember the guy who filmed over Croke Park a year or two ago?


On a personal note, I did like the aerial imagery.

fr336

lol makes me laugh how people from all walks of life will always defend their interest/hobby :pac: I love flying and planes, especially the commercial jets, but to say people who are safety cautious (that's the whole aviation industry then!) are just out to 'ruin the fun' is pretty damn childish. 'What ifs' are what that whole industry rely on..I'm a big fan of what if's myself, would I like some cool shots of scenery yes, would I want it if there was a safety risk no.

ETA: Yes ProfessorPlum has it all covered..the voice of a mature adult not someone on the Easter hols

mbur

Tut tut. What a bunch of killjoy post I'm reading here. Try the youtube comments. All positive and people from outside Cork are saying how they would love to visit having seen this video.

As for the 'danger' aspect. I think the 'pilot' ticked all the boxes, Airmanship, Airworthyness and Meterology.

What I saw as I watched the whole video, was a carefully controlled aircraft flown with due regard to life and property. Much like the much heavier arcraft that fly over my house every day as they leave Cork Airport. Now if one of them were to have a 'power problem' as they took off I think the risk to me and others would be far greater than this sub kilo weight quadcopter.

My message to whatever authority believe it is their job to regulate this RC activity: This is the sort of flight that should be allowed.

fr336

It's not being a killjoy; it's having an overview of both arguments rather than mindless self interest.

Snowc

fr336 wrote: »

lol makes me laugh how people from all walks of life will always defend their interest/hobby :pac: I love flying and planes, especially the commercial jets, but to say people who are safety cautious (that's the whole aviation industry then!) are just out to 'ruin the fun' is pretty damn childish. 'What ifs' are what that whole industry rely on..I'm a big fan of what if's myself, would I like some cool shots of scenery yes, would I want it if there was a safety risk no.

ETA: Yes ProfessorPlum has it all covered..the voice of a mature adult not someone on the Easter hols

Great post I agree 100 % ,it also makes a change from your usual "posts" on here ....

fr336

Snowc wrote: »

Great post I agree 100 % ,it also makes a change from your usual "posts" on here ....

What a backhanded compliment this is
I do hope you're referring to my non-posts in After Hours rather than Aviation?

crazygeryy

fr336 wrote: »

l

ETA: Yes ProfessorPlum has it all covered..the voice of a mature adult not someone on the Easter hols

What's that supposed to mean? It would be nice if you just made your point instead of insulting people.

Tenger

Can we all discuss this without veiled accusations of extreme youth and/or elitism?

As with most threads in A&A we often welcome non-aviation knowledgeable posters.

Aviation professionals/enthusiasts can sometimes forget that many common aviation activities can appear dangerous to 'outsiders'.

Karl Stein

Only a matter of time before a little bomb is delivered by drone as opposed to a large one.

roundymac

Here's more about it.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/amazing-drone-footage-shows-cork-city-in-all-its-glory-266431.html

folbotcar

The reality is that what he did was illegal. It's illegal because it's potentially dangerous like all aviation, big and small. That's why it's heavily regulated.

The Examiner would have a whole different story if he lost control of it and it landed in a school yard or somewhere equally newsworthy.

Xpro

The way some people go on here is just unreal. What if he crash landed on someones head, the weight of the equipment strapped on, etc.. Negativity to the highest level.
What if the 80 tonne airliner went down? What that make yous feel better and that be ok just because he was licensed.

With drones being so widely available and nowadays every joe and harry have one, maybe the guy in question simply didn't know he was breaking any rules, and he tought he was doing good by publishing the video and his own name.

There is obviously lack of information in that aspect, ( rc planes, drones) and people are totally unaware of whats allowed and whats not.

crosstownk

folbotcar wrote: »

The reality is that what he did was illegal. It's illegal because it's potentially dangerous like all aviation, big and small. That's why it's heavily regulated.

The Examiner would have a whole different story if he lost control of it and it landed in a school yard or somewhere equally newsworthy.

This sums it up in reality.

Yes, it's a great piece of footage and personally I'd like to see it done over my neck of the woods. However, it has to be done within the regulations. We can't have every Tom, Dick & Harry flying any type of aircraft just because it makes good footage or eventually there will be an incident.

It's all great fun until somebody has an eye taken out.

Peregrine

It's a great video but I too have concerns about the growing popularity of RC aircraft and the need to regulate them.

fr336 wrote: »

not someone on the Easter hols

Hey, what did I do now? :pac:

sully2010

Heres one dropping out of the sky at only 50ft and it would no doubt knock someone out cold, any higher than 50ft who knows.

Crash at 6.00

ANXIOUS

sully2010 wrote: »

Heres one dropping out of the sky at only 50ft and it would no doubt knock someone out cold, any higher than 50ft who knows.

Crash at 6.00

Really? It had no damage about falling 50 ft, I'd imagine the velocity was quite low.

Xpro

Heres one well above clouds, autorotating and crashing. Very high alt, this could have defo interfered with other traffic:eek:

Still, minor damage after landing.

Autorotator

Don't be getting excited , the IAA are very slow to act on incidents involving REAL aircraft , let alone an 800g unmanned Drone!!I think People need to relax instead of pushing for legislation that wont even be enforced nor will people abide by it. These things are actually pretty safe, anyone who straps a €400 plus camera onto one isnt going to take any unnecessary risks to jeopardize its safe return ! eg. ensuring it has sufficient battery etc.

squonk

Ah come on! From the piece of the video I got to see, and I didn't have time to watch the entire thing, the guy controlled the flight very well and maintained a fairly low altitude. There wasn't a helicopter or other aircraft in sight and he was very unlikely to hit anything even if there was. The chances of the drone running into problems on such a short flight are fairly small too and, even if it did, the chances of it actually hitting somebody are smaller still. It's a bit two faced to knock this guy really when we see helicopters at verious events doing scenic flights over built up areas or even airshows where the stunts being performed place the aircraft in a higher than usual danger of meeting the ground unexpectedly.

kub

squonk wrote: »

Ah come on! From the piece of the video I got to see, and I didn't have time to watch the entire thing, the guy controlled the flight very well and maintained a fairly low altitude. There wasn't a helicopter or other aircraft in sight and he was very unlikely to hit anything even if there was. The chances of the drone running into problems on such a short flight are fairly small too and, even if it did, the chances of it actually hitting somebody are smaller still. It's a bit two faced to knock this guy really when we see helicopters at verious events doing scenic flights over built up areas or even airshows where the stunts being performed place the aircraft in a higher than usual danger of meeting the ground unexpectedly.

I agree with all that, also considering that Cork City is like a bowl with hills all around it I would doubt that the yolk was even above the altitude of Cork Airport.
Also I know for a fact that the place he was standing is above if not level with the likes of Shandon and St Finbarrs Cathedral.

radar0976

At the end of the day I'm sure the guy himself probably didn't realise he was breaking the law. But even for his own sake if something did happen, ignorance of the law is not a defence in this country.

Aerohead

Brilliant video and so clear, can someone tell me how does he control the copter, has it got to be in your sight all the time because looking at the video it seems to go a long way from where it was launched. Cork tourism should purchaes the video the City looks great from the air.

Paulw

The unit flown is a DJI Phantom 2. They weigh 1kg, without the camera.

The IAA themselves quote different regulations in relation to flying these, but the regulations are clear that it can't be flown over a populated area or in controlled airspace. Regulations here are very different from those in the UK, for example.

He clearly has an fpv (first person viewing) kit onboard, so has a monitor where he can see what the camera can see while flying. The range of the unit is about 700m, without expanding it (software expansion up to 1km).

He definitely broke a number of regulations. If the IAA will act or not we shall see.

folbotcar

Autorotator wrote: »

Don't be getting excited , the IAA are very slow to act on incidents involving REAL aircraft , let alone an 800g unmanned Drone!!I think People need to relax instead of pushing for legislation that wont even be enforced nor will people abide by it. These things are actually pretty safe, anyone who straps a €400 plus camera onto one isnt going to take any unnecessary risks to jeopardize its safe return ! eg. ensuring it has sufficient battery etc.

squonk wrote: »

Ah come on! From the piece of the video I got to see, and I didn't have time to watch the entire thing, the guy controlled the flight very well and maintained a fairly low altitude. There wasn't a helicopter or other aircraft in sight and he was very unlikely to hit anything even if there was. The chances of the drone running into problems on such a short flight are fairly small too and, even if it did, the chances of it actually hitting somebody are smaller still. It's a bit two faced to knock this guy really when we see helicopters at verious events doing scenic flights over built up areas or even airshows where the stunts being performed place the aircraft in a higher than usual danger of meeting the ground unexpectedly.

There's nothing two faced about it. Those helicopters are operated by professional experienced pilots who operate under the strictest of the regulations after years of expensive training and experience. The helicopters themselves are certified, built and maintained at enormous expense. Airshows are also operated under strict legislation. Even a minor display like dropping a parachutist into a field for a local show has to approved by the IAA among others well in advance. Meanwhile our hero with no training or experience just takes it into his head to fly over a busy city with his expensive toy just because he can. Where's the comparison?

In any case you're both missing the point. It's ILLEGAL because it's potentially dangerous to bystanders. This isn't about whether or not he was skilled and careful. Anybody can buy and operate one of those things without any form of training or experience. What if someone less skilled tries to copy him? Does someone have to get seriously injured or hurt before the message hits home.

kub

Following that logic so it must be absolutely downright deadly for me to climb a ladder on a city street with a drill in my hand that could fall on someones head.

Too many what if's in this bloody country, also lets not forget the two greatest words ever, the greatest BS words which are Health & Safety.

I wait for the day when personal responsibility, accountability and culpability come into the equation. But then that is not good for the legal trade so i will not be holding my breath.

folbotcar

Considering the number of people killed every year in construction accidents compared to aviation and your absurd comparison merely reinforces the point.

I wait for the day when personal responsibility, accountability and culpability come into the equation. But then that is not good for the legal trade so i will not be holding my breath.

The fact of the matter is that for many years those who enjoy the hobby of R/C model aircraft have obeyed the rules in relation to fly over built up areas. This is because for the most part they understand the risks involved and have a responsible attitude to safety. They also understand that an accident could result in them losing their right to enjoy their hobby or find themselves facing criminal or civil action for any damage or injury caused by their model.

Some years ago a model plane flying in the Phoenix park flew away and was lost. Sometime later it was spotted at Dublin airport crashed on a taxiway. You don't have to have too much imagination to understand the possible consequences of a collision with an airliner.

But now we have these drones and apparently their owners and you feel they are exempt from the law and from common sense.
My own view is that it's time the IAA prosecuted someone in a high profile way before someone gets hurt.

squonk

folbotcar wrote: »

My own view is that it's time the IAA prosecuted someone in a high profile way before someone gets hurt.

I think a bit of perspective is required here. The cost of drones seems to be from the €300 range upwards so, at that point, we're unlikely to be overrun with johnny, Mary, Mary's brother, her uncle and the lad she knows down the road staging drone dogfights over built up areas just for the hell of it. The equipment the guy used costs about €800 so, likewise, he's hardly likely to be coming back from the pub and launching the thing just for the hell of it which would result in a crash. Given an outlay of that proportion, I'd think that the guy in question has every intention of maintaining his drone in a good working condition as a lost/badly damaged aircraft is an investment down the drain. I've seen more RC aircraft buzzing around so far than I've seen drones. I think that a certain amount of live and let live is called for here.

crazygeryy

folbotcar wrote: »

Some years ago a model plane flying in the Phoenix park flew away and was lost. Sometime later it was spotted at Dublin airport crashed on a taxiway. You don't have to have too much imagination to understand the possible consequences of a collision with an airliner.

This is just over the top altogether. The words drama and Queen come to mind. That's like saying dont fart on that sky scraper it will fall down.
If one of those drones hit a commercial airliner your saying it would bring it down or something simillar?
Would you rise out of me please.
Ridiculous.

Johnny901

folbotcar wrote: »

Considering the number of people killed every year in construction accidents compared to aviation and your absurd comparison merely reinforces the point.

The fact of the matter is that for many years those who enjoy the hobby of R/C model aircraft have obeyed the rules in relation to fly over built up areas. This is because for the most part they understand the risks involved and have a responsible attitude to safety. They also understand that an accident could result in them losing their right to enjoy their hobby or find themselves facing criminal or civil action for any damage or injury caused by their model.

Some years ago a model plane flying in the Phoenix park flew away and was lost. Sometime later it was spotted at Dublin airport crashed on a taxiway. You don't have to have too much imagination to understand the possible consequences of a collision with an airliner.

But now we have these drones and apparently their owners and you feel they are exempt from the law and from common sense.
My own view is that it's time the IAA prosecuted someone in a high profile way before someone gets hurt.

Well said Folbotcar !

Another issue is insurance, most people operating R/C aircraft as a hobby operate within the Model Aeronautics Council of Ireland and are thus insured.

I saw a fairly fancy drone with Go Pro camera on it being used in a supermarket car park recently (BTW wasn't the supermarket that organised it) car park was full with cars and people. When I started taking video with the phone (just for interest, not to report him or anything) the guy promptly landed and fecked off.

I wonder what would happen if it had an engine failure and damaged a car or worse injury to a person ?

In populated areas there is risk to SAR, Garda Air Support, Irish Air Corp and anyone that needs to fly lower than normal.

CaptainSkidmark

crazygeryy wrote: »

Jesus some people just love to bitch and moan. What if what if what if.
It's a brilliant video and fair play to the guy that did it. An excellent aerial view of cork city.good flying to.

But I'd say because of the whingers and moaners the authorities will crack down on the use of these drones. They have done it in New Zealand already.

I totally agree.

Reoil

I'd say I'd have more chance of winning the lottery than being killed by a Killer Drone falling from the sky.
It's hardly Chicken Little.

Is there maybe a little sense of jealousy in this thread perhaps?