Risk of violence in rural Ireland?

markoboston

I am an American gay man planning a trip to Ireland with my male spouse. (We are legally married in the States.) We are bringing my father for his first trip ever outside the States. We are planning to spend much of our time in County Mayo, because my father and I have roots there, and because of the natural beauty. But I read in the Lonely Planet travel guide that violence against gay men is an issue in Ireland, especially in rural areas, and especially in pubs. We were hoping to visit some pubs, though mainly for dinner early in the evening. We aren't drinkers and would not stay late. Is this a bad idea? Is there much hostility to gay people in rural Ireland in general or County Mayo in particular? Thanks in advance for your help.

qweerty

I think you'd sooner encounter violence for being a Yank than for being gay! While your safety can't be guaranteed (:p), I would be very surprised if you experience hostility - "Let god punish them", the locals will be thinking! Hope you enjoy it.

J_E

markoboston wrote: »

I am an American gay man planning a trip to Ireland with my male spouse. (We are legally married in the States.) We are bringing my father for his first trip ever outside the States. We are planning to spend much of our time in County Mayo, because my father and I have roots there, and because of the natural beauty. But I read in the Lonely Planet travel guide that violence against gay men is an issue in Ireland, especially in rural areas, and especially in pubs. We were hoping to visit some pubs, though mainly for dinner early in the evening. We aren't drinkers and would not stay late. Is this a bad idea? Is there much hostility to gay people in rural Ireland in general or County Mayo in particular? Thanks in advance for your help.

I always found rural areas to be more naive than violent towards gay couples. While I would not recommend you show public displays of affection in public anywhere in Ireland (people just aren't ready for it, even if they claim to not have an issue it can unnerve them) I find people if they do realise you are a couple, will not give you any hassle. If anything it's more likely you may get a 'look' or more dismissive attitude if someone indeed has an issue.


Ireland is becoming more and more accepting of gay men and women, and apart from the still-present religious stigma of past days, there is a fairly open attitude for the most part I find. I hope you don't experience this though, because west Ireland is a beautiful place.

baby and crumble

Violence against gay people can be an issue, but it is really quite rare. I'd say the US experiences more lgbt related violence than Ireland does. And from what I read within the community it's actually more likely in the bigger cities (thanks to their somewhat anonymous nature, perhaps).

Myself and my partner (females btw) often go away for weekends etc all over the place, and we've never once had any issues. Occasionally you'll get some strange looks, but that's all they are- looks. Certainly never an issue when it comes to hotels, bars, restaurants. Possibly if you were out clubbing until 4am And stumbled around when everyone is completely wasted, maybe.

I certainly wouldn't let it worry you or alter your plans. Take the same steps to ensure your safety as you would in the US -stay away from dodgy looking areas, don't display in massive full-on kissing marathons (which in fairness with your Dad in tow I doubt you would be going for anyway!!!), don't rise to antagonistic remarks if there are any (which I doubt) and you'll be fine.

I'd actually say you're more likely to get hassled as gay men in Dublin than in the countryside. But it's still much more likely to be verbal if anything.

qweerty

Cydoniac wrote: »

I always found rural areas to be more naive than violent towards gay couples. While I would not recommend you show public displays of affection in public anywhere in Ireland (people just aren't ready for it, even if they claim to not have an issue it can unnerve them) I find people if they do realise you are a couple, will not give you any hassle. If anything it's more likely you may get a 'look' or more dismissive attitude if someone indeed has an issue.

Maybe I've misinterpreted, Cydo, but it sounds to me like you are actively discouraging PDA. And I think that's a bit extreme. I was with a guy for a while who insisted on kissing me in public, and we never had any problems. We were kissing in the smoking area of a pub once, and a pretty rough looking guy came out and lit up a cigarette. We didn't know if he'd seen us, so just started talking normally. Our conversation sort of lulled and he suddenly said, "So...you lads are gay, are ya?" We didn't know what to say, but he stubbed out his cig and said, "Fair play, fair play", and went back inside. That anecdote doesn't exactly prove much (in fact, if I'd known how long it would take to type, I wouldn't have given it!), but I don't think it's necessary to discourage gays from holding hands or other mild PDA when somewhere where they are relatively inconspicuous - like a busy street, or something.

floggg

Cydoniac wrote: »

I always found rural areas to be more naive than violent towards gay couples. While I would not recommend you show public displays of affection in public anywhere in Ireland (people just aren't ready for it, even if they claim to not have an issue it can unnerve them) I find people if they do realise you are a couple, will not give you any hassle. If anything it's more likely you may get a 'look' or more dismissive attitude if someone indeed has an issue.


Ireland is becoming more and more accepting of gay men and women, and apart from the still-present religious stigma of past days, there is a fairly open attitude for the most part I find. I hope you don't experience this though, because west Ireland is a beautiful place.

Ah here.

As in most places in the world you need to be a bit sensible about being visibly affectionate in public, particularly on the streets late at night, that doesn't mean you should never do it.

I have no problem in kissing my bf or being affectionate in most bars and clubs in the city centre and never had an issue.

I'd have no issue doing it either anywhere on the south side of the city centre (the north side, around O'Connell Street etc can be a bit tougher and therefore less predictable).

OP - you should be fine. I'd say refrain from any PDAs in rural pubs (if only because they can be a bit of an unknown quantity) but nobody is likely to give two gay men minding their own business any issue.

Enjoy the trip. Mayo is nice but the surrounding counties like Galway and Sligo are must sees as well.

Annasopra

markoboston wrote: »

I am an American gay man planning a trip to Ireland with my male spouse. (We are legally married in the States.) We are bringing my father for his first trip ever outside the States. We are planning to spend much of our time in County Mayo, because my father and I have roots there, and because of the natural beauty. But I read in the Lonely Planet travel guide that violence against gay men is an issue in Ireland, especially in rural areas, and especially in pubs. We were hoping to visit some pubs, though mainly for dinner early in the evening. We aren't drinkers and would not stay late. Is this a bad idea? Is there much hostility to gay people in rural Ireland in general or County Mayo in particular? Thanks in advance for your help.

I'd say you would be absolutely fine to be honest.

LegacyUser

Hi there,

I'd be very surprised if anyone even gave you a dark look.

you will mostly be fine, people in Ireland even in rural areas are very used to gay people and generally they will be live and let live and if they do have a problem they will more than likely leave you alone and give out to the neighbours later on.
I imagine that you'll be sight seeing and eating in pubs so to most you'll look like a father with two sons anyway.

The only thing I would say is that if you are booking bed & breafastss they may throw you into a twin room automatically if they see you are two men. you may have to ask specifically for a double and that can get a bit awkward if its some religious old dear who has never left the village.

Have a great time, its a beautiful part of the country and be sure to visit Achill

J_E

floggg wrote: »

I have no problem in kissing my bf or being affectionate in most bars and clubs in the city centre and never had an issue.
I'd have no issue doing it either anywhere on the south side of the city centre (the north side, around O'Connell Street etc can be a bit tougher and therefore less predictable).

This is not Dublin city centre though. It won't be something the locals are used to seeing and it might catch them off guard, and to be honest unless you're alone together I just wouldn't do it, less attention attracted in that sense the better.

I'll kiss my boyfriend in public but not when people are looking and a lot more discreetly.

floggg

Cydoniac wrote: »

This is not Dublin city centre though. It won't be something the locals are used to seeing and it might catch them off guard, and to be honest unless you're alone together I just wouldn't do it, less attention attracted in that sense the better.

I'll kiss my boyfriend in public but not when people are looking and a lot more discreetly.

Well you said you wouldn't do it anywhere in Ireland full stop.

I'm sure he'd be fine most places.

They may be "caught off guard" but are unlikely to do do - generally you only really need to worry in the presence of drunken scum bags - which are usually rather visible.

markoboston

We rarely kiss or hold hands in public, even in the States. The one big exception is if I'm outside our house when my partner comes home from work, then I give him a kiss outside. But our neighbors already know about us and don't have a problem.

The one thing we were going to try to consciously avoid while traveling is that we usually call each other "Sweetie", but we are going to try to use names instead. This feels stiff and formal, but also feels safer. We do this when traveling to other English-speaking places, so it wouldn't be a special effort for Ireland.

By the way, part of my apprehension comes from having spent some time (working) in Ireland in the early 80s. (Now I'm showing my age.) This was long before I met my spouse. I had just come out of the closet in the States, but when I got to Ireland, which was still very Catholic, I was scared back into the closet. I haven't been back to Ireland since, but I know it's changed for the better.

I have a feeling it's going to be fine. And we do intend to visit Sligo and Galway on day trips. It's just that my father and I have family roots in Mayo, so that's where we'll be based.

Aard

As long as you don't make a big deal of it, nobody else will.

Especially if you're in touristy places like Westport - they'll be well used to all sorts.

baby and crumble

markoboston wrote: »

By the way, part of my apprehension comes from having spent some time (working) in Ireland in the early 80s. (Now I'm showing my age.) This was long before I met my spouse. I had just come out of the closet in the States, but when I got to Ireland, which was still very Catholic, I was scared back into the closet. I haven't been back to Ireland since, but I know it's changed for the better.

Well as much as people like to give out about it, the Ireland of the 80's is a massively different beast than the Ireland of today. Since you worked here we've had decriminalisation of "homosexual activity" and the provision of civil partnerships. The church doesn't hold as much sway as it used to, and buy and large nobody gives a damn what you're doing behind closed doors so long as you don't want to get married in a church or adopt babies. Which I doubt is on your itinerary for your holidays.

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother changing your pet names. And don't hold off on being affectionate either. Granted, massive PDA's are ill advised (moreso because they're tacky!!) but don't stop giving hugs or calling each other by your nicknames. And don't be tempted into booking twin rooms or any other nonsense. Most places couldn't give a rats ass about your bedroom habits so long as you're a tourist giving them money (possibly different if you're in small private house type B&B's). A bit mercenary but you won't have the local priest out showering you with Holy Water because the hotel manager asked him to.

Enjoy your holiday, that part of the world is truly spectacular. There's a new film called Calvary which although pretty dark will give you an idea of how gorgeous Sligo is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGM5rq_vX4U

bikeman1

I would second what b&c has said there. Don't worry about it too much. In fairness nobody really likes long public displays of affection no matter who you are. I have kissed my bf in the night club in Westport and nobody even thought anything different.

Also to reiterate, don't book a twin room or whatever in a hotel/b&b/wherever. I can assure you they have seen it all before!

The Westport to Achill cycleway is great and not too strenuous. There is a shop at the start in Westport where you can rent bikes and they will pick you up at the other end later in the day. Also the drive down to Killary harbour is spectacular after Louisberg.

Hope you have a great vacation!

Dane29

I reckon ye will b just fine but Jesus leave the "sweetie" at home. I'd even look twice meself if I heard that out of ya:)

baby and crumble

Dane29 wrote: »

I reckon ye will b just fine but Jesus leave the "sweetie" at home. I'd even look twice meself if I heard that out of ya:)

Why? Why should they have to change how they speak to each other as a couple?

Dane29

My opinion. Tbh gay/straight calling each other sweetie in public..cringe

Locker10a

markoboston wrote: »

We rarely kiss or hold hands in public, even in the States. The one big exception is if I'm outside our house when my partner comes home from work, then I give him a kiss outside. But our neighbors already know about us and don't have a problem.

The one thing we were going to try to consciously avoid while traveling is that we usually call each other "Sweetie", but we are going to try to use names instead. This feels stiff and formal, but also feels safer. We do this when traveling to other English-speaking places, so it wouldn't be a special effort for Ireland.

By the way, part of my apprehension comes from having spent some time (working) in Ireland in the early 80s. (Now I'm showing my age.) This was long before I met my spouse. I had just come out of the closet in the States, but when I got to Ireland, which was still very Catholic, I was scared back into the closet. I haven't been back to Ireland since, but I know it's changed for the better.

I have a feeling it's going to be fine. And we do intend to visit Sligo and Galway on day trips. It's just that my father and I have family roots in Mayo, so that's where we'll be based.

Im from Mayo! Probably the only person on here who is! And honestly you have nothing to be worried about! Attitudes are no different to what they are in the states ! In fact depending on where you go I would say people are even more relaxed towards lgbt people in Ireland! And Mayo is no exception to this! Having grown up there and the majority of my best friends living and being from there I can honestly say people there are no different to anywhere else in Ireland! And I have lived a few places!
You will be fine! I worked in a hotel in mayo and we got gay couples every week! There are loads of gay people in mayo and its nothing alien to the natives and I have never ever experienced violence or even heard of such!
Enjoy your time there and I hope the weather is nice while you visit!

Mr.Frame

To be honest OP I think you are reading too much into things .
Be yourself ,speak to each other as you usually do,have fun ,enjoy yourselves.
I would say you have nothing to worry about .
Enjoy your stay in Ireland
Don't forget to tell us how it goes

JH_raheny

you'll have no problems whatsoever, I have been all around Ireland with my bf over the years and not once have we had an issue anywhere and that goes for pubs, hotels, restaurants

markoboston

Thanks for all of the reassuring posts. We are going to try to avoid calling each other "Sweetie" in public in Ireland. We actually try to avoid it in public in the States, though it really depends on the context. If it sounds odd or cringeworthy to an Irish person, it must be a cultural difference, since straight couples call each other "sweetie" or "honey" in public all the time in the States.

Anyway, aside from that detail, I'm going to go on the assumption that the environment is not much different from what we're used to at home and will not worry about it.

The high point of my time in Ireland in the 80s was how friendly everyone was (even if many were more narrow-minded then). I see that that has not changed and am really looking forward to our stay in your beautiful country.

ongarboy

Hi OP,

I and my partner go to rural destinations in Ireland for weekends away about once a month for the last 10 years and never have encountered issues on nights out or at anytime. Likewise when we head to my home county of Kerry which is often. Admittedly, we do not engage in PDAs in such places but it's not like we feel oppressed by not being able to snog in the village square or sit on each others laps during last orders in the local. We don't have to act lovey dovey coupley to enjoy being together as a couple if you understand me. I suspect we may get the odd glance or be the subject of speculation in some rural restaurants when we dine together on a Saturday night at a table for two or check into a double room in a B&B/country hotel but that's about it.

You'll have no problem, trust me! Enjoy your trip! In my experience, outside Ney York or San Francisco, Ireland is actually more liberated than the States in these matters.

qweerty

markoboston wrote: »

Thanks for all of the reassuring posts. We are going to try to avoid calling each other "Sweetie" in public in Ireland. We actually try to avoid it in public in the States, though it really depends on the context. If it sounds odd or cringeworthy to an Irish person, it must be a cultural difference, since straight couples call each other "sweetie" or "honey" in public all the time in the States.

Anyway, aside from that detail, I'm going to go on the assumption that the environment is not much different from what we're used to at home and will not worry about it.

The high point of my time in Ireland in the 80s was how friendly everyone was (even if many were more narrow-minded then). I see that that has not changed and am really looking forward to our stay in your beautiful country.

I strongly urge you to continue calling each other what you do at home. There are some reasonable adjustments one should probably make when in a different environment - where convenient, use the local vocabulary ("petrol" not "gas", for instance), and chanting "U, S, A" tends not to go down especially well. But, I'd be disgusted by anyone who criticised your calling each other "Sweetie".

floggg

markoboston wrote: »

Thanks for all of the reassuring posts. We are going to try to avoid calling each other "Sweetie" in public in Ireland. We actually try to avoid it in public in the States, though it really depends on the context. If it sounds odd or cringeworthy to an Irish person, it must be a cultural difference, since straight couples call each other "sweetie" or "honey" in public all the time in the States.

Anyway, aside from that detail, I'm going to go on the assumption that the environment is not much different from what we're used to at home and will not worry about it.

The high point of my time in Ireland in the 80s was how friendly everyone was (even if many were more narrow-minded then). I see that that has not changed and am really looking forward to our stay in your beautiful country.

It's cultural. We like to mock overt displays of sugary sweetness. It's a coping mechanism for those who lack such love and affection.

Keep on doing it, don't worry.

youngblood

If you have to change anything please do not change how you talk to each other.
Continue to call each other sweetie. You may get the piss pulled out of you at some stage, not cos your gay but because Irish people would puke at the thought of calling each other sweetie.

Anyway, aside from that detail, I'm going to go on the assumption that the environment is not much different from what we're used to at home and will not worry about it. It'll be the exact same as home only a little bit better because its Ireland and we're mighty craic (generally)

You're going to have a blast in Ireland, and I guarantee you wont find any hassle anywhere you go apart from the usual "being a yank" remarks/looks but Im guessing you may be prepared/used to that

Time Now Please

markoboston wrote: »

I am an American gay man planning a trip to Ireland with my male spouse. (We are legally married in the States.) We are bringing my father for his first trip ever outside the States. We are planning to spend much of our time in County Mayo, because my father and I have roots there, and because of the natural beauty. But I read in the Lonely Planet travel guide that violence against gay men is an issue in Ireland, especially in rural areas, and especially in pubs. We were hoping to visit some pubs, though mainly for dinner early in the evening. We aren't drinkers and would not stay late. Is this a bad idea? Is there much hostility to gay people in rural Ireland in general or County Mayo in particular? Thanks in advance for your help.

You don't have to be gay for something to happen in a pub! that said the source of your information is not quite accurate, come on over to Ireland and enjoy your vacation with your husband and your dad, honestly we don't bite!!!

Lmklad

Hey OP,

You shouldn't really worry. Like previous posters have said, Ireland of 2014 is a totally different place to that of the '80's. If you are still apprehensive be aware that homophobic behaviour in public places is illegal and you are protected under the law. We don't have free speech in the American sense. If you are still worried I can forward the phone numbers of the Garda stations near wherever you are staying. I'm the LGBT officer for Co. Clare. Enjoy your trip and please spend LOTS of money!!

suicide_circus

This will not be an issue op, seriously. I imagine you encontering more hostility in rural usa than rural ireland. Some people might do a double-take if youre holding hands, kissing etc but that'll be the height of it.

Seamai

Like the other poster have said, you'll be quite safe. My partner grew up in the US and has been living here 15 years, he reckons Ireland is much more relaxed than the US when it comes to dealing with gay matters. We've stayed in B & B's, big and small up and down the country over the last 14 years and not once has an eyebrow ever been raised (we'd always book a double room). Granted we're not into PDAs but I think people would know we were gay and we've never once been made feel uncomfortable in any bar or restaurant or on the street for that matter.

BTW he used to call me "Sweetie" but I made him drop it, I just don't like it as a term of affection.

When you say eating early, I hope you don't mean dinner at 6.00pm, if you go to places too early you might find them a bit dead (or full of Americans). When my sister in law's visits, her idea of a late night is getting to bed by 10.00pm. I'd try to adjust my internal clock a bit and go out a bit later than you might be used to, although I appreciate that it might not suit your dad.

Have a great holiday, hope you get some good weather

eviltwin

Lmklad wrote: »

Hey OP,

You shouldn't really worry. Like previous posters have said, Ireland of 2014 is a totally different place to that of the '80's. If you are still apprehensive be aware that homophobic behaviour in public places is illegal and you are protected under the law. We don't have free speech in the American sense. If you are still worried I can forward the phone numbers of the Garda stations near wherever you are staying. I'm the LGBT officer for Co. Clare. Enjoy your trip and please spend LOTS of money!!

We have LGBT officers now? Do you mean in the gardai? When did that happen!!

Lmklad

eviltwin wrote: »

We have LGBT officers now? Do you mean in the gardai? When did that happen!!

Bout 10yrs ago. It's not very well known unfortunately. If u need any help give me a shout and I'll steer you in the right direction.

Roquentin

markoboston wrote: »

We rarely kiss or hold hands in public, even in the States. The one big exception is if I'm outside our house when my partner comes home from work, then I give him a kiss outside. But our neighbors already know about us and don't have a problem.

The one thing we were going to try to consciously avoid while traveling is that we usually call each other "Sweetie", but we are going to try to use names instead. This feels stiff and formal, but also feels safer. We do this when traveling to other English-speaking places, so it wouldn't be a special effort for Ireland.

By the way, part of my apprehension comes from having spent some time (working) in Ireland in the early 80s. (Now I'm showing my age.) This was long before I met my spouse. I had just come out of the closet in the States, but when I got to Ireland, which was still very Catholic, I was scared back into the closet. I haven't been back to Ireland since, but I know it's changed for the better.

I have a feeling it's going to be fine. And we do intend to visit Sligo and Galway on day trips. It's just that my father and I have family roots in Mayo, so that's where we'll be based.

Galway city will be grand.

The country side might be different. I dont mean anything bad like they will chase you with pitch forks or something. You may get a few questionable looks thats all, although id be cautious in a country pub. Some parts of galway and mayo are still living in the 40's and 50's kind of way.

Werent two men thrown out of a pub in cork there a few years ago for kissing though.

Caiseoipe19

Roquentin wrote: »

Galway city will be grand.

The country side might be different. I dont mean anything bad like they will chase you with pitch forks or something. You may get a few questionable looks thats all, although id be cautious in a country pub. Some parts of galway and mayo are still living in the 40's and 50's kind of way.

Werent two men thrown out of a pub in cork there a few years ago for kissing though.

:rolleyes: What places in Mayo and Galway, and in exactly what sense are they "still living in the 40's and 50's kind of way"

floggg

Roquentin wrote: »

Galway city will be grand.

The country side might be different. I dont mean anything bad like they will chase you with pitch forks or something. You may get a few questionable looks thats all, although id be cautious in a country pub. Some parts of galway and mayo are still living in the 40's and 50's kind of way.

Werent two men thrown out of a pub in cork there a few years ago for kissing though.

Those stories invariable have more than one side. The last people who claimed to be kicked out of somewhere for showing some affection were caught on CCTV wrecking the place if I recall.


Sometimes, drunk people will either recollect things incorrectly and believe they were in the right when they clearly weren't, or else just play the gay card for attention.

Roquentin

Caiseoipe19 wrote: »

:rolleyes: What places in Mayo and Galway, and in exactly what sense are they "still living in the 40's and 50's kind of way"

The last time i was in connemara i couldnt get the internet. That was a year and half ago.

Roquentin

floggg wrote: »

Those stories invariable have more than one side. The last people who claimed to be kicked out of somewhere for showing some affection were caught on CCTV wrecking the place if I recall.


Sometimes, drunk people will either recollect things incorrectly and believe they were in the right when they clearly weren't, or else just play the gay card for attention.

My bad

J_E

Roquentin wrote: »

The last time i was in connemara i couldnt get the internet. That was a year and half ago.

Lol, I would wager most pubs don't have Wifi! That's not anything to do with being backwards, just means the owner would like to think the customers can survive without constantly checking their phones :P

Roquentin

Cydoniac wrote: »

Lol, I would wager most pubs don't have Wifi! That's not anything to do with being backwards, just means the owner would like to think the customers can survive without constantly checking their phones :P

In this day and age, those who do not provide internet service should be put in jail.:D

Aard

Roquentin wrote: »

The last time i was in connemara i couldnt get the internet. That was a year and half ago.

More like 1990s than 1950s tbh.

the blunder years

To the OP, there will be no issue made about your sexuality. Rural Ireland isn't some backwater in the dark ages, the areas are quaint not the people.

Roquentin

Aard wrote: »

More like 1990s than 1950s tbh.

I agree. I may have exaggerated it slightly

diograis

Roquentin wrote: »

Galway city will be grand.

The country side might be different. I dont mean anything bad like they will chase you with pitch forks or something. You may get a few questionable looks thats all, although id be cautious in a country pub. Some parts of galway and mayo are still living in the 40's and 50's kind of way.

Werent two men thrown out of a pub in cork there a few years ago for kissing though.

the story behind the pub in question is gas actually, apparently they ended up letting in a load of skangers who'd act all camp to the bouncer and all sorts because they were afraid of seeming prejudiced :P the pub is actually good, i was there last week!

Annasopra

eviltwin wrote: »

We have LGBT officers now? Do you mean in the gardai? When did that happen!!

They've been around about 10 years

The list of them is on the right hand side

www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=154

Orizio

Don't go OP, boggers can't be trusted.

Roquentin

Orizio wrote: »

Don't go OP, boggers can't be trusted.

It could turn out like Wolf Creek or something

pugwall

OP you and your hubby will be fine - no one will bat an eyelid. The only attention you will get will be from the locals swooning after your Boston accents

This reminds me (don't know why) of the time myself and my BF (now fiancee - yay!) went to Cork for a romantic weekend 10 years ago. We were in our early 20's at the time. The only discrimination we experienced was from the doorman at the gay bar/club called instinct. We were refused entry.. why??? because it was a gay bar! He did't believe that we were gay. Ireland always amazes and surprises me

Enjoy your trip.

Pugs