Anyone made their own electric bike?

euser1984

Might try it out....

Beasty

We're much more into DIY around here (pedalling I mean:pac:)

Seriously though - we get the occasional thread about electric bikes, but it's not a particularly popular topic in the forum

Keep_Her_Lit

Mad_Lad is the go-to-guy for all your electric vehicle questions. He'll be along any minute now on his 5kW folder or whatever wild contraption he's tinkering with these days.

cdaly_

Also, check out http://pedelecs.co.uk for a very helpful forum on all things e-bike related...

euser1984

euser1984 wrote: »

Might try it out....

Yes, It's a supper cool and expensive hobby.

I sold all my kit now, had my fun and now own a German made Haibike with Bosch mid drive motor. It's quiet expensive, but it's probably the smoothest electric bike on the go right now. The way it matches your pedal input and cadence is remarkable, I was worried about loosing the throttle but now I don't miss it at all.

1st, Budget ?

2nd How fast ?

3rd Hills and what grade ?

Hub motors in the rear wheel will be cheaper, mid drive motors will usually climb steeper hills and more efficiently because you can use the bike gearing where as the hub motor is a fixed speed and becomes a lot more inefficient the slower it turns and up a very steep hill a lot of power is wasted as heat.

The Bosch will climb 20-23% grade with a lot of effert, but it means the difference between being able to do it and not, simple as that and I want a Bike that I can take most places on some sort of paved road. I actually love to cycle and put in effort and like having an electric bike because it keeps the motivation going on those windy days and it gets me on hilly routes I would normally avoid. And I can go a hell of a lot further also.

If anyone knows the access road up Mount Leinster to the RTE mast will know how steep that is and the Bosch can get up, granted with hard peddling but I wouldn't be able to do it without it.

Yes an electric bike can be heavy, the Haibike trekking is 27 kg but I do pedal a lot without assistance and use the motor mainly for hills.

There are lighter bikes with the Bosch and Haibike make one weighing about 17 kg but it's very expensive.

You can get a mid drive kit from Bafang, one of the more reliable Chinese motor makers, It's called the BBS02 in the pic below. It can be mounted to most bikes and so you can convert your existing bike.





This was one of my conversions with a MAC motor in the rear wheel,



Notice the Torque Plate in the pic below ? this is absolutely essential to prevent axle spin in the dropouts, Failure to have two will result in damage to the cables, droupouts or serious injury. No matter how tight the wheel nuts are the axle will spin, ( experience)



This is the Haibike EQ Trekking SL with the older 2013 motor, the new one with performance motor is slightly more powerful.





The Bosch is fully E.U legal and is not 250 watts, it's about 500 watts maybe a little more because they use clever software to limit power on take off to pass the tests, and the motor still shuts off at 17 mph, it starts to power down at 15 mph at 17 no assistance. It climbs hills like a mountain Goat.

Batteries are expensive and you got to make the right choice for your setup.

There are shops around the country selling very cheap electric bikes with very underpowered hub motors that will hardly climb a motorway bridge never mind real hill and charging 4 times the price, beware.

People in Ireland are not very open to anything electric, but electric bikes are outselling cars in Europe today !

euser1984

tbh, I just want something that goes fast and helps me to get from a-b that can pass off as road legal - I'll turn the pedals but I want the motor to do a lot more than a normal electric bike would....

euser1984

euser1984 wrote: »

tbh, I just want something that goes fast and helps me to get from a-b that can pass off as road legal - I'll turn the pedals but I want the motor to do a lot more than a normal electric bike would....

How fast ? how far ? hills etc.

Cost ? more speed means more power needing a bigger battery etc.

Also, if you go with the Hub motors you'll need to fabricate your own torque arms/plates or buy them ready made.

Check out endless-sphere.com tonnes of info there also.

You'll most likely have to do some diy with some kits you buy some are easier to put together than others. Most of the kits are Chinese but do not let that put you off, there are good quality kits coming from China if you know the right contacts.

euser1984

I'm just after looking at that bbs motor linked above - surprised at 500 euro for a conversion kit.

I was thinking I might be able to pull an old motor off something and connect it straight to the big gears on the pedals - differential required or not....suppose that's a motorbike then though. I don't want to get this thread locked, but who polices whether bikes meet the legal watt or speed limit requirement?

Thanks.

thebouldwhacker

Great post mad lad. If I bookmark this page can I come back in 30 years or so? ( or sooner)

ROK ON

Contempt

euser1984

euser1984 wrote: »

I'm just after looking at that bbs motor linked above - surprised at 500 euro for a conversion kit.

I was thinking I might be able to pull an old motor off something and connect it straight to the big gears on the pedals - differential required or not....suppose that's a motorbike then though. I don't want to get this thread locked, but who polices whether bikes meet the legal watt or speed limit requirement?

Thanks.

500 is a lot and most likely excludes a good battery, but it's better than a cheap poor quality kit. The fun is priceless IMO, others go to the pub and drink it and think I'm mad for buying the haibike but I'd rather pay for my hobbies than p it up a wall.

You can use any motor provided it's speed is reduced enough. making something like this from scratch is complicated but check out endless-sphere for tips.

You're not going to build something good cheap, unfortunately.

Laws are laws and if you crash into someone you'll be in trouble, btw you're not allowed a throttle in the e.u either the motor is not supposed to come on until you start to pedal.

If you don't act the edjit and don't draw attention to yourself you'll be grand. Speed in towns will attract attention or get you hurt as cars will not expect you to be going fast and will pull out right in front of you.

thebouldwhacker

ROK ON wrote: »

Contemplate

FYP

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

Contempt

I used to feel this way, but it's really just a cheap, lightweight motorbike. Like those things the Frenchies used to run. Velowhatevers.

Sure, what's the harm.

OP you still haven't given me an idea of speed or distance, hill climbing etc ?

The One Doctor

Yep, I bought a DIY kit and slapped on a bike. Like an idiot, I'd been regularly putting 1000w through a 350w motor but one day something 'popped' and it never worked after that (it shuddered like hell when I hit the throttle but the wheel didn't move). I traced the issue to the phase wires melting through and possibly shorting and I suspect the motor is fecked.

Fast forward a year and I need the bike again for an ebike trip around Ireland I'm planning. There's no way I'm buying another kit with €1000 spent already, so, I need to start troubleshooting.

OP, I highly recommend an ebike. Get a rear wheel motor setup and a good reliable battery, usually LiFePo4. The MagicPie motors are among the best for DIY power and speed but they are quite expensive (around €500 delivered).

If you like to pedal then the magic pie motors are not for you, they're big, heavy and they create a lot of drag when pedalling.

Some of the best motors are the mac kits on em3ev.com

Paul is an English chap in China and has an excellent reputation among the electric bike DIY community. He provides quality kits and makes excellent batteries.

If you got lots of steep hills and want only assistance then the 10-12t mac motor kits with 20-30 amp controllers will climb very steep hilly terrain. And on a 48 volt battery you should get 20 mph max.

If you got average short hills then the 8t mac kit will allow you 30 mph max on 48 volts depending on how many amps your battery can deliver.

Lifep04 batteries are big and heavy and awkward on electric bikes compared to the best stuff today such as the nmc packs Paul sells that fit in the triangle.

Paul does make lifep04 very high power batteries if you want to pull high amps and have longer life, but I prefer smaller lighter batteries.

The cycle analyst is also a great device to have which tells you the current you're pulling from your battery and allows you to limit the current and also tells you exactly what energy you're taking from the battery and also your consumption.

And as always never forget torque arms or plates, and never mount more than a 500 watt motor in the front wheel and even at that front motors are not recommended.

There are crank drive kits these days too which allow you use the bikes gears for much better efficiency but you have to sacrifice 2 of the 3 chain rings on the front cranks. But usually if you need the then the motor compensates.

The benefit of the crank drives are mainly for slow very steep trails which when the motor starts to bog down you change gear to provide much better efficiency keeping the motor cool and minimising the watts drawn which in a hub turn to heat on slow steep hilly trails.

The crank drive such as bafang bbs02 750 watt has an internal controller to make things a lot neater.

Electric bikes are expensive and even to DIY is expensive but this for me is a very interesting and addictive hobby. But the payoff is endless fun, cars will never be the same again.

A lot of people wouldn't spend 500 euro on a bike never Mind 1000 on a high quality motor kit, a lot of people don't appreciate the benefits of electric bikes, or the fun.

The One Doctor

Good advice above, I went for LiFePo4 as they're safer and degrade slower, but they are fairly heavy.

Does anyone know any good sites for troubleshooting ebikes? I really want to get mine back up and running.

Jabel

Fair play Mad Lad, I've ridden a lovely BH Emotion Race bike and couldn't wipe the smile off my face, it really was great fun and at the time if I had the funds I would have bought one. I decided to go a different route though with a road bike and honestly think I definitely made the right choice, I'm fitter than I've ever been and have become somewhat 'addicted' to cycling. Just completed my first Sally Gap ride and boy it was tough in bad conditions last Saturday and had I seen you on your leccy bike I probably would have wrestled you for it!!
Each to their own, it's all good as long as you're out.:D

Thargor

Im the same, would love an electric bike and probably the tinkering hobby that comes with it but cycling for me is the only form of exercise I have a chance of sticking with and Im badly in need of it so I invested in clipless pedals and shoes instead, also targetting the Sally Gap and Glendalough and other places like that this Summer.

Looking forward to buying a Tesla when Im a millionaire though.

The One Doctor

The One Doctor wrote: »

Good advice above, I went for LiFePo4 as they're safer and degrade slower, but they are fairly heavy.

Does anyone know any good sites for troubleshooting ebikes? I really want to get mine back up and running.

Www.endless-sphere.com

Open the motor and check if your windings are good first.

I use 12 g alpha ecowire which is very thin and easy to feed through the axle.

I use the motor only when I need it for hills and wind, I've dodgy knees so I need the motor but I pedal on flats and small hills.

The bosch motor I have makes me pedal and I can set the assistance levels so I'm always getting exercise motor on or not.

Having the motor means I can go further and cycle on windy days where I might not bother and above all hilly routes.

loughside

Over a year since the last post on here and it would be interesting to see if many more have taken to e-biking?

I went down the DIY route, bought an old bike on gumtree for 25 quid and changed everything except the frame and built up a complete 48v 750watt powered bike. 9 pedal assist modes and separate throttle if you need it. I reckon the total cost with all new parts somewhere around £1000.

Thargor

Very nice Loughside, any details on performance? speed/range/what its like to operate etc?

Qualitymark

Or what about those yokes that go down the seat tube of (men's, large) bikes, which are so silent that they were testing for them in the Tour de France a few years ago? Roche had a nice piece about both himself and his bike being "drug tested" after he sped along one day - maybe five years ago now…?

Koobcam

Qualitymark wrote: »

Or what about those yokes that go down the seat tube of (men's, large) bikes, which are so silent that they were testing for them in the Tour de France a few years ago? Roche had a nice piece about both himself and his bike being "drug tested" after he sped along one day - maybe five years ago now…?

They've been testing for these motors this season, in the Giro and the Vuelta at least if not other races. I actually think these sort of motors are a great idea as they might encourage more people to cycle instead of jumping in the car. Downside would be expense I suppose, but if the technology develops, that should become less of an issue. Personally, I enjoy the challenge of getting up the hills (especially the steep ones) under my own steam, but each to their own, we can't all climb like Pantani.

loughside

Thargor wrote: »

Very nice Loughside, any details on performance? speed/range/what its like to operate etc?

This was a project more for tackling the hills around here than outright speed. Again it all depends on your fitness, weight, the type of terrain etc for range, with a bit of peddling around 30-40 miles or so on a full charge, the higher the aH of the battery the further you`ll go.
Anyone who`s ridden a bike or motorbike will get the hang of it in half an hour, only thing to think about is changing gear in time for a hill coming up.

This is great for those who are either not fit enough to tackle our countryside on a normal bike, are getting on in years, recovering from injury, want to get out in the fresh air from the car etc, etc.

loughside

loughside wrote: »

Over a year since the last post on here and it would be interesting to see if many more have taken to e-biking?

I went down the DIY route, bought an old bike on gumtree for 25 quid and changed everything except the frame and built up a complete 48v 750watt powered bike. 9 pedal assist modes and separate throttle if you need it. I reckon the total cost with all new parts somewhere around £1000.

Excellent stuff. Now remember to spend 60 Euro's or more on a good lock !

Electric biking is fun, I don't get much time these days but I love to be able to go out and just go anywhere I want and tackling the hills means I still need to put in a lot of effort and get the exercise, it's not about killing yourself. When your peddling you still get exercise. I like to pedal a lot without motor power and love to have the motor for the steep stuff and the bike is heavier anyway so you will always need that little bit of motor on the hills.

eclipsechaser

This is a post I wrote a few months ago. It's still all true though. The only thing that has changed is that I've fallen in love with cycling so much that I also picked up a Boardman Road Comp just so I can go faster than the e-bike!



I bought a BH Emotion Neo Cross about 15 months ago. I was looking to commute a short distance (approx. 8km return) but the traffic was just terrible so I didn't want to purchase a car. A bike seemed liked the obvious solution but I didn't fancy showering in work every day or everytime I went to visit friends or relatives. I play a lot of sports (~4 times a week) so didn't feel guilty looking at an electric bike. I am a complete n00b to cycling and was looking at the cheap e-bikes. After doing a bit of research - and knowing I could rely on the cycle to work scheme - I decided to pony up for a decent bike. It was easier to justify since I was going to use it exclusively instead of a car.

I went in to GreenAer near Trinity and tried out a few of their bikes. The BH Cross was just ridiculously fun to cycle. It's hard to explain; you just have to try it. I got a decent deal on a shop model from GreenAer - very nice people I have to say. Even 15 months later, I'm still excited hopping on it each morning. I've let lots of friends have a go on it - even the most skeptical and judgemental ones come back with a big grin after trying it. I don't get the hatred from some folks about them.

I've also found myself cycling for pure pleasure which I would never have imagined. If I've got some free time or need a break, I cycle up to the top of Three Rock (plenty of exercise in that no matter what setting you use), or spin out to Dún Laoghaire or just do the trail around UCD. The BH Cross is a more sporty bike whereas the Kalkhoff models didn't feel quite as agressive. Kalkhoff I would recommend for an older age group whereas BH I would recommend for younger people.

Anyway I can honestly say it's one of the best purchases I've ever made. I actually can't imagine being without it now. Best of luck with your purchase.

euser1984

I don't know about a lock. IMO this should either be behind closed doors at your house or place of work or, under yer ass.

euser1984

This is funny, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYIJm7101pg

Qualitymark

euser1984 wrote: »

This is funny, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYIJm7101pg

Funny, but it made my elbows cringe seeing him going those speeds all nekkid, while the bikers had big leathers on to protect their delicate little skins.

euser1984

Qualitymark wrote: »

Funny, but it made my elbows cringe seeing him going those speeds all nekkid, while the bikers had big leathers on to protect their delicate little skins.

I picked the video out fairly quick, there's some better ones out there....

But, yeah....the idea of bone scraping against the road is not nice at all.

Lumen

eclipsechaser wrote: »

I don't get the hatred from some folks about them.

A unique aspect of cycling is that you can transport yourself vast distances (hundreds of km a day) using only human power. It's about simplicity, lightness and efficiency, but more importantly (since many bikes are as expensive and complicated as e-bikes in their own way) about a sense of freedom and self-sufficiency.

Electric bikes don't have the same attributes. They're range-limited and heavy and don't give the same feeling of self-reliance. They're extremely efficient motorised vehicles.

euser1984

Lumen wrote: »

A unique aspect of cycling is that you can transport yourself vast distances (hundreds of km a day) using only human power. It's about simplicity, lightness and efficiency, but more importantly (since many bikes are as expensive and complicated as e-bikes in their own way) about a sense of freedom and self-sufficiency.

Electric bikes don't have the same attributes. They're range-limited and heavy and don't give the same feeling of self-reliance. They're extremely efficient motorised vehicles.

No tax or insurance

Lumen

euser1984 wrote: »

No tax or insurance

No motor tax or car insurance, but you still have to pay VAT (as you do on a regular bike) and insurance is probably a good idea.

I wonder whether Cycling Ireland's insurance covers e-bikes?

loughside

Lumen wrote: »

Electric bikes don't have the same attributes. They're range-limited and heavy and don't give the same feeling of self-reliance. They're extremely efficient motorised vehicles.

We`re talking about the Pedelec variety here, not mopeds.

The rider has to pedal for the whole thing to work!

Lumen

loughside wrote: »

We`re talking about the Pedelec variety here, not mopeds.

The rider has to pedal for the whole thing to work!

None of which changes what I wrote.

I'm not attacking e-bikes, just explaining why some cyclists don't like them (which was an implied question). Each to their own.

euser1984

But you need to pay VAT on cars etc. too....

The idea with the electric bikes though is that they help you pedal the bike.....you get extra power equivalent to what you put in.....

for example it would just make it easier to go up a hill by assisting you....you would still get well fit cycling one if you put in the km's.....it gets people on bikes that wouldn't otherwise use them too.....normal bloody bikes can be tough work....gradual inclines can sometimes feel like your climbing everest.

Lumen

euser1984 wrote: »

normal bloody bikes can be tough work....gradual inclines can sometimes feel like your climbing everest.

Think about where you are for a second.

"normal bloody bikes" are why this forum exists.

euser1984

Lumen wrote: »

Think about where you are for a second.

"normal bloody bikes" are why this forum exists.

That's why I wanted to build an electric one.....I haven't been on a bike for a while but I used to go out with a cycling club on a racer....used to love that....the km's just fly by.

One of the reason I'm a little annoyed is because I could never get a racer to suit my frame perfectly, so I could never go the full three hours on the racer without severe discomfort around my shoulders.



I'm sure everyone here get's annoyed with cycling and bikes every now and again.....

Lumen

euser1984 wrote: »

I could never get a racer to suit my frame perfectly, so I could never go the full three hours on the racer without severe discomfort around my shoulders.

Shoulder pain is usually pretty easy to fix with a properly sized and fitted bike, assuming you don't have any underlying musculoskeletal problem.

And of course isn't anything to do with how the bike is powered.

euser1984

Lumen wrote: »

Shoulder pain is usually pretty easy to fix with a properly sized and fitted bike, assuming you don't have any underlying musculoskeletal problem.

And of course isn't anything to do with how the bike is powered.

True but the powered bike would be just for getting from "a to b" type thing....if I want milk from the shop for my breakfast I might not fancy climbing up a hill to get it too!


I have long arms and the large frame handlebars were a bit too far back even when switched....the extra large frame was too big......I had a giant and a felt - haven't gone back since.

EDIT: My arms are too long long and even with the handlebars switched backwards it was too short...

Thargor

Im very sttracted to them and Ill own one when I'm old but I just cant justify paying a fortune for something I can do myself, hard enough to keep the weight off as it is, if I had a car or e-bike Id start getting fat.

Anyway most of them say max speed 30-something kph, max range 40-something, rarely more than 50-60 km anyway. Anyone unless they have a medical reason can achieve that on a roadbike with a bit of effort and there's no point saying "But you have to pedal model z to get it to go...", you know its not the same.

Thargor

euser1984 wrote: »

True but the powered bike would be just for getting from "a to b" type thing....if I want milk from the shop for my breakfast I might not fancy climbing up a hill to get it too!


I have long arms and the large frame handlebars were a bit too far back even when switched....the extra large frame was too big......I had a giant and a felt - haven't gone back since.

Thing is though, any little bit of bit of effort for a few weeks on a bike and you'll need to be heading to Howth or Wicklow to get a hill thats actually a challenge, there is literally no hill in Dublin that should be an annoyance to you going to the shops from your house.

euser1984

Thargor wrote: »

Im very sttracted to them and Ill own one when I'm old but I just cant justify paying a fortune for something I can do myself, hard enough to keep the weight off as it is, if I had a car or e-bike Id start getting fat.

You can get different powered motors though....or just switch it on for some hills if you wanted.....the less powerful the motor the less it will help you - so maybe that would be more suitable for you.

Thargor wrote: »

Anyway most of them say max speed 30-something kph, max range 40-something, rarely more than 50-60 km anyway. Anyone unless they have a medical reason can achieve that on a roadbike with a bit of effort and there's no point saying "But you have to pedal model z to get it to go...", you know its not the same.

I know but the electric bikes are probably targeting a different market - at least to some extent....there still a little expensive though.

Battery technology has serious money going into it these days with smartphones and electric cars etc.....you could modify one of these bikes to go any speed you want....the're just restricted by law to a certain speed but sure who's gonna check unless your taking the p*ss.

euser1984

Thargor wrote: »

Thing is though, any little bit of bit of effort for a few weeks on a bike and you'll need to be heading to Howth or Wicklow to get a hill thats actually a challenge, there is literally no hill in Dublin that should be an annoyance to you going to the shops from your house.

For me I've not had much interest in bikes in a long time, but I loved the racer in groups. At the moment I can walk to the shop so I'm lucky....if I had to go across town to a job then I would probably get a normal bike....

If I had to cycle 13 or 14km to work and home every day, after a tough day, I'd be thinking of electric....and the cost would be considered an investment in my general well being....plus, there would probably be the odd hangover day....

FRC actually, I'm the OP; but the project had been put aside and with no plans in the future.....of course that could change anytime...

loughside

Good to see the major car manufacturers beginning to roll ebikes off the production line ..

https://www.electricbike.com/auto/

I`m liking that carbon Audi offering

beauf

euser1984 wrote: »

....If I had to cycle 13 or 14km to work and home every day, after a tough day, I'd be thinking of electric....and the cost would be considered an investment in my general well being....plus, there would probably be the odd hangover day.......

My commute is about 14k each way, so 28k a day. But most I ever did it was 3 times a week. Most of the time it was 1 or 2 times a week. I intend getting back into it through.

However I used to meet people with electric bikes doing the same if not longer commutes. They didn't think it as cycling though. Just as transport. I have considered an electric bike, but I'd go for a light bike that I can convert back to a regular bike if desired.

http://www.cytronex.com/bikes/

If I got one I wonder would I ever take the kit off.

euser1984

beauf wrote: »

My commute is about 14k each way, so 28k a day. But most I ever did it was 3 times a week. Most of the time it was 1 or 2 times a week. I intend getting back into it through.

However I used to meet people with electric bikes doing the same if not longer commutes. They didn't think it as cycling though. Just as transport. I have considered an electric bike, but I'd go for a light bike that I can convert back to a regular bike if desired.

http://www.cytronex.com/bikes/

If I got one I wonder would I ever take the kit off.

Dunno what kind of bikes they have but trust me, from my experience riding an electric (mum has one) and from being out on 3 hr spins with the local club on racing bikes; it is cycling. If someone asked me what electric cycling is about I'd say.....cycling with a little bit of torque to help you out - you'll still be tired. It will keep you fit! It is exercise.

It feels similar to the torque you would get on a treadmill come to think of it.

beauf

I was trying to say the electric bike made cycling everyday viable for them.