Bus lanes do not close on bank holidays

monument

Just to note for future reference: Bus lanes do not close on bank holidays!

old_aussie

lol

martingriff

monument wrote: »

Just to note for future reference: Bus lanes do not close on bank holidays!

Were you caught or just some good advice.

monument

martingriff wrote: »

Were you caught or just some good advice.

Just some good advice.

whomitconcerns

but where did you get this from? Its been discussed a few times but I have never seen anything to definitively say if it was ok or not? I have always used them on B/H's including yesterday, as it seems to be openly unclear.

bumper234

whomitconcerns wrote: »

but where did you get this from? Its been discussed a few times but I have never seen anything to definitively say if it was ok or not? I have always used them on B/H's including yesterday, as it seems to be openly unclear.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/open-bus-lanes-on-bank-holidays-rejected-by-dcc-614887.html

A proposal to open up Dublin's bus lanes on Bank Holidays has been rejected by the City Council over fears it could cause confusion, and traffic jams.

whomitconcerns

hmm...that does seem to clarify (if not in legal terms). Seems silly not to...how would the marathon be affected? what nonesense

corktina

I can't see the point in part -time bus lanes. If they are in force only during the busy times, why would they be needed for use by ordinary traffic at non-busy times?

bumper234

corktina wrote: »

I can't see the point in part -time bus lanes. If they are in force only during the busy times, why would they be needed for use by ordinary traffic at non-busy times?

I used one this morning at 6:45 you should have seen the looks i got from people when i passed them

SeanW

corktina wrote: »

I can't see the point in part -time bus lanes. If they are in force only during the busy times, why would they be needed for use by ordinary traffic at non-busy times?

A better question, that answers yours, is if they are only needed in peak times, why is the restriction needed in the off-peak times?

whomitconcerns

the ones that can be used between 10am and 12pm are the best! The looks you get are priceless! And it saves a lot of time in cross city travel

whomitconcerns

corktina wrote: »

I can't see the point in part -time bus lanes. If they are in force only during the busy times, why would they be needed for use by ordinary traffic at non-busy times?

Well to answer..Malahide road yesterday..maybe 20 cars at lights at the casino in marino. Bus lane empty on a bank holiday..I used it..saved me a few mins..so why not Even if it is only a notional gain.

corktina

Oh I do the same all the time, it's always worth reading those little plates. But I still wonder at the logic of part-time bus lanes.

Spook_ie

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Well to answer..Malahide road yesterday..maybe 20 cars at lights at the casino in marino. Bus lane empty on a bank holiday..I used it..saved me a few mins..so why not Even if it is only a notional gain.

So basicly you broke the law ( good law or not ) to get ahead by a "few" minutes?

whomitconcerns

Spook_ie wrote: »

So basicly you broke the law ( good law or not ) to get ahead by a "few" minutes?

well thats the question in hand. There is no law clarifying this, and to be clear I never use the buslanes in hours of operation. Drives me mental when you see people indicating left for 2-300m in a bus lane on a Monday morning when the rest of us are queueing...

The bank holiday situation is a legislative gray area.

Spook_ie

whomitconcerns wrote: »

well thats the question in hand. There is no law clarifying this, and to be clear I never use the buslanes in hours of operation. Drives me mental when you see people indicating left for 2-300m in a bus lane on a Monday morning when the rest of us are queueing...

The bank holiday situation is a legislative gray area.

Not really if a BH Monday falls on a Monday then the hours of operation 7.00 -19.00 ( or whatever ) would still be on a Monday

GerardKeating

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not really if a BH Monday falls on a Monday then the hours of operation 7.00 -19.00 ( or whatever ) would still be on a Monday

I always thought Sunday rules applied on a bank holiday...

GerardKeating

SeanW wrote: »

A better question, that answers yours, is if they are only needed in peak times, why is the restriction needed in the off-peak times?

Most/All the 24/7 Bus lanes were formerly Hard shoulders, so would revert to that outside peak hours.

Obviously contra flow lanes would always have to be 24/7

monument

whomitconcerns wrote: »

but where did you get this from? Its been discussed a few times but I have never seen anything to definitively say if it was ok or not? I have always used them on B/H's including yesterday, as it seems to be openly unclear.

Not sure what you think is unclear about the signs - there's no bank holiday expections on them! And that's back the law.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

well thats the question in hand. There is no law clarifying this, and to be clear I never use the buslanes in hours of operation. Drives me mental when you see people indicating left for 2-300m in a bus lane on a Monday morning when the rest of us are queueing...

The bank holiday situation is a legislative gray area.

The law is clear cut: There is no bank holiday expection.

GerardKeating wrote: »

I always thought Sunday rules applied on a bank holiday...

It does not.

seamus

GerardKeating wrote: »

I always thought Sunday rules applied on a bank holiday...

This is the popular perception. That because busses operate Sunday rules on a BH, then so too do bus lanes.
But they don't.

What about paid parking? It would be commonly believed that parking hours operate Sunday rules on a BH. Is this true, or is it just a de facto rule because clampers/warden don't operate on BH's?

whomitconcerns

monument wrote: »

The law is clear cut: There is no bank holiday expection.

You see I am not so sure here to be honest... I mean Dublin parking (pay and display) restrictions dont apply on bank holidays.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Parking/pages/payanddisplay.aspx.

So its not like its an completely unfounded assumption although I do take your point..and now am more wary of same...

I think this could do with more clarity..and if definitely not allowed then it should be allowed.

Buses are on a Sunday timetable so the rules and restrictions applying to them should be also.

whomitconcerns

Nice clear answer available in the UK
http://mqt.london.gov.uk/mqt/public/question.do?id=8245

Answer by Ken Livingstone (2nd Term)
Bus lane regulations apply at all times except where signs indicate otherwise. This means that if a bus lane's operational hours apply on, for example, a Monday, they will continue to apply even if that Monday happens to be a public holiday.The Highway Code stipulates that "you must not drive or stop in a bus lane during its hours of operation unless the signs indicate you may do so"

monument

whomitconcerns wrote: »

You see I am not so sure here to be honest... I mean Dublin parking (pay and display) restrictions dont apply on bank holidays.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Parking/pages/payanddisplay.aspx.

So its not like its an completely unfounded assumption although I do take your point..and now am more wary of same...

I think this could do with more clarity..and if definitely not allowed then it should be allowed.

Buses are on a Sunday timetable so the rules and restrictions applying to them should be also.

It's clear cut and it has nothing to do with the parking bylaws.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

and if definitely not allowed then it should be allowed.

Buses are on a Sunday timetable so the rules and restrictions applying to them should be also.

State bus companies are by far not the only users of bus lanes.

And even with Dublin Bus etc we should be looking better bus services and more 24 hour bus lanes to support such.

AlekSmart

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Nice clear answer available in the UK
http://mqt.london.gov.uk/mqt/public/question.do?id=8245

Off outa that with you...we'll be havin none of that sort of stuff around here....!

No Pants

GerardKeating wrote: »

I always thought Sunday rules applied on a bank holiday...

No, that's just the timetable.

Qualitymark

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not really if a BH Monday falls on a Monday then the hours of operation 7.00 -19.00 ( or whatever ) would still be on a Monday

Umm, what day would a bank holiday Monday normally fall on!

(It would be much clearer if bank holiday Mondays were treated as Sundays in re bus lanes, as they are in parking, bus schedules, shop opening hours, etc, etc.)

bikeman1

The bus lanes that are Monday - Saturday 07:00 - 19:00 for example are definitely a bus lane on Public Holidays that are between those days times as Monument has said. There is no ambiguity with it.

Also the College Green "Blockade" still operates on Bank Holiday Mondays. I have seen a guard patrolling it last year and all the signs were working advising such.

Anyway traffic is usually so light you don't need / have the urge to use a bus lane.

Spook_ie

Qualitymark wrote: »

Umm, what day would a bank holiday Monday normally fall on!

Snipped

Exactly it's a Monday not a Sunday

paddyland

SeanW wrote: »

A better question, that answers yours, is if they are only needed in peak times, why is the restriction needed in the off-peak times?

Bus drivers using bus lanes could really do without the added risks of cars cutting into their lane dangerously in front of them. Often, evenings, Sundays and bank holidays are just as congested or even moreso than weekdays, particularly with the rise in Sunday shopping, and rigid times of operation take no account of this.

Besides, opening bus lanes to other traffic outside of peak hours simply turns roads into race tracks, inviting fast overtaking (or undertaking) in busy suburban areas.

It's either a bus lane or it's not, and if it is, it should be 24/7, across the board. For safety, if nothing else.

HonalD

paddyland wrote: »

Besides, opening bus lanes to other traffic outside of peak hours simply turns roads into race tracks, inviting fast overtaking (or undertaking) in busy suburban areas.

It's either a bus lane or it's not, and if it is, it should be 24/7, across the board. For safety, if nothing else.

I'll second that - especially at junctions where there is a "left only and bus ahead" marking, technically you can drive in the bus lane outside the hours on the signs but also you are breaking the law if you are not turning left.

Just to clarify, the Regulations state that the information plate is what determines when the bus lane is in operation or not. Thanks.

sdanseo

whomitconcerns wrote: »

the ones that can be used between 10am and 12pm are the best! The looks you get are priceless! And it saves a lot of time in cross city travel

I take a sick pleasure in doing this. Drumcondra at 11am - sailing past kilometres of traffic at (roughly) 50km/h while they all sit there. Of course you always encounter the odd slow cretin in a taxi or bus that keeps stopping but the odd time, just the odd time, you get a clear run.

I've done Malahide to Bolton Street in 17 minutes this way. In morning traffic.

Spook_ie

sdeire wrote: »

I take a sick pleasure in doing this. Drumcondra at 11am - sailing past kilometres of traffic at (roughly) 50km/h while they all sit there. Of course you always encounter the odd slow cretin in a taxi or bus that keeps stopping but the odd time, just the odd time, you get a clear run.

I've done Malahide to Bolton Street in 17 minutes this way. In morning traffic.

I'd imagine that one of the major problems of "sailing past kilometres of traffic at (roughly) 50km/h while they all sit there" is why I don't do it ( even during bus lane hours ) is people joining the lane without looking, I would suggest that even though you are technicaly allowed to do so that sailing past at 50Kph might be a tad blaise and likely to result in an accident sooner or later and would counsel you to drive at a more reasonable speed. You'll still get there and perhaps, just perhaps, without a caved in wing on your car.

BTW I hardly think calling bus drivers and taxi drivers driving with some consideration for other road users as cretins helps your case any

sdanseo

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'd imagine that one of the major problems of "sailing past kilometres of traffic at (roughly) 50km/h while they all sit there" is why I don't do it ( even during bus lane hours ) is people joining the lane without looking, I would suggest that even though you are technicaly allowed to do so that sailing past at 50Kph might be a tad blaise and likely to result in an accident sooner or later and would counsel you to drive at a more reasonable speed. You'll still get there and perhaps, just perhaps, without a caved in wing on your car.

BTW I hardly think calling bus drivers and taxi drivers driving with some consideration for other road users as cretins helps your case any

Yes, but you're a taxi driver, so you would say that. Everyone else is the mortal enemy, or so the manner of your multitude of pro-taxi agenda posts would seem to indicate.

I drive at a speed which allows me to stop within the distance I can see to be clear. Expect the unexpected maybe, but I don't subscribe to wrapping things in cotton wool either. Overtaking safely on the left in slow moving traffic is legal, and if someone decides to change lane without even bothering to look then their license isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

My "cretin" comment was tongue in cheek. However there are a large proportion of taxi drivers who, in my experience, drive like they own the road and with zero consideration for others.

Spook_ie

sdeire wrote: »

Yes, but you're a taxi driver, so you would say that. Everyone else is the mortal enemy, or so the manner of your multitude of pro-taxi agenda posts would seem to indicate.

I drive at a speed which allows me to stop within the distance I can see to be clear. Expect the unexpected maybe, but I don't subscribe to wrapping things in cotton wool either. Overtaking safely on the left in slow moving traffic is legal, and if someone decides to change lane without even bothering to look then their license isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

My "cretin" comment was tongue in cheek. However there are a large proportion of taxi drivers who, in my experience, drive like they own the road and with zero consideration for others.

Yes I'm a taxi driver I'm also a road user in a private capacity when I drive the wife's car, in neither would I extol your apparant disregard for sensible driving as being something that people should do.

You do, however, make a very good case for Bus Lanes all being 24 hours 7 days a week to prevent "sailing past kilometres of traffic at (roughly) 50km/h while they all sit there" and the almost inevitable accidents that driving at such a speed whilst essentially undertaking invariably causes.

I would probably have no argument with you if you hadn't have put "sailing past kilometres of traffic at (roughly) 50km/h while they all sit there" and put down a speed of 20-30Kph, the excessive speed you employ to buzz down a bus lane indicates a complete disregard for safety

Captain Chaos

No different than a bus doing 50kph passing blocked traffic on the left. imo

markpb

Captain Chaos wrote: »

No different than a bus doing 50kph passing blocked traffic on the left. imo

There's a massive legal difference though. A bus using the bus lane to make progress is (probably) doing so legally. A car using an out of hours bus lane to undertake traffic is doing so illegally and would share a significant amount of blame should an accident occur.

sdanseo

markpb wrote: »

There's a massive legal difference though. A bus using the bus lane to make progress is (probably) doing so legally. A car using an out of hours bus lane to undertake traffic is doing so illegally and would share a significant amount of blame should an accident occur.

I don't agree necessarily. The rules of the road state that you may overtake on the left when both lanes are moving slowly.

If the main lane (which is now an overtaking lane, because when the bus lane is not in operation it becomes a driving lane - but people don't realise that because aiming this at nobody in particular, people can be very stupid sometimes) is gridlocked, and the bus lane is empty, then in theory if you travel slowly, traffic in both lanes is moving slowly. Therefore you may overtake in it.

If it's moving fast, then in theory, you shouldn't overtake in it. However, all of the cars queuing in the driving lane are committing an offence by failing to keep left.

In short it's a situation the law never thought of.

As for my "roughly" 50 km/h comment - it was meant light heartedly. In reality you'd do well to get a decent run at 50 km/h with cyclists, buses, taxis and of course being alert for the dreaded "unexpected" that Gay Byrne would have you believe is stalking us all like a grim reaper. Common sense all round lads. Every situation is different, 50km/h approaching the cat and cage in the bus lane southbound is not equally dangerous as 50km/h in the long straight run outside the Regency.

corktina

Yes I completely agree. Whereas anyone using an out of use bus lane should be cautious, it is not illegal for them to pass stationery (or almost so) traffic that is in the right hand lane

Pawwed Rig

The one at Heuston Station used to be a gift as it was always clear even though the non bus lane would be jammed. Unfortunately it is usually blocked by taxis now:mad:

I always thought the bank holiday was Sunday rules for bus lanes. I guess you learn something new every day. Funny that the bank holiday bus timetables are the Sunday schedule though:rolleyes:

Glad to see the faith the councillors have in our intelligence. How would it cause confusion exactly???:D

paddyland

HonalD wrote: »

I'll second that - especially at junctions where there is a "left only and bus ahead" marking, technically you can drive in the bus lane outside the hours on the signs but also you are breaking the law if you are not turning left.

A classic case of ill thought through road design. The planner simply plans a white 'bus lane' line along a road, and pays scant or no attention at all to what happens at the beginning and end of that bus lane.

Primarily, because same planner has never sat behind the wheel of a bus in their life, and pays no account to the dynamics of driving a bus in their 'bus lane.'

Bus lanes should be planned by people who a) have driven buses in service for at least a year, and b) who have at least a million miles of driving behind them. If you don't have that knowledge, how are you supposed to have the experience to know what works and what doesn't, under EVERY possible scenario on that road plan?

Spook_ie

Captain Chaos wrote: »

No different than a bus doing 50kph passing blocked traffic on the left. imo

TBH never seen many buses doing 50Kph down the inside, for the exact reasons I've outlined. Yeah you might get the odd one trying to make up time on the timetable but in my experience they are the exception