Got a car alarm

yr one

Hi all,

New here so I don't know if this is in the correct section.

Just wondering if anyone has some advice, I recently had a clifford car alarm fitted, the proximity sensors are driving my neighbours insane as it goes off at the slightest

so I had a look around in the car and found a box with a dial on it, thing is the box says viper, I've no idea what it's for.

I paid nearly €450 for this alarm and I also never received a receipt or any packaging or documents

When I was collecting the car I was told all is in order and this is it on, this is it off and that's it pretty much. I seen the box off the alarm that was to be installed in my car and though it would have been left in the boot. I know I was stupid not to check or ask for it.

I had it installed by what was supposed to be a reputable business, but seeing that it doesn't even say what I paid for on the box I'm to say the least a tad angry.

Does anyone know how firstly to turn the bloody thing off, other than unlocking the car and secondly, is there any circumstances that you would fit viper parts to a car when it was clearly supposed to be clifford?

colm_mcm

What does the key fob look like?

djimi

Turn the prox sensors down, not off. They serve a useful purpose and are only annoying if they are turned up too high (mine used to wreck my head as it would go off for anything within 50 feet of the car!).

Contact the guy who fitted the alarm and they should be able to adjust it for you easily.

Dord

Viper and Clifford brands are owned by the same company.

http://www.directed.com

bmstuff

I would go back to that shop if I were you and make your point.

djimi

Dord wrote: »

Viper and Clifford brands are owned by the same company.

http://www.directed.com

I wouldnt expect to see a Clifford branded as a Viper though; they are seperate systems. Viper are decent alarms but if the OP has been sold a Clifford and charged accordingly then they need to confirm what they have.

The keyfob would be the most obvious giveaway as to the brand.

yr one

colm_mcm wrote: »

What does the key fob look like?

I didn't get a key fob because it works off my original car keys

yr one

djimi wrote: »

Turn the prox sensors down, not off. They serve a useful purpose and are only annoying if they are turned up too high (mine used to wreck my head as it would go off for anything within 50 feet of the car!).

Contact the guy who fitted the alarm and they should be able to adjust it for you easily.

I already had it over with them as I park the car in town and it's non stop when people are walking past it
I'm going back over to him ASAP though cause it's getting really annoying

djimi

yr one wrote: »

I didn't get a key fob because it works off my original car keys

Yeah that doesnt sound like a Clifford...

Where abouts are you? MDS in Ballyfermot in Dublin would be one of the main Clifford agents in Ireland; if you are in the area or fancy taking a trip Id say give Brendan a shout and maybe see if he will give you a second opinion as to what has been installed.

yr one

djimi wrote: »

I wouldnt expect to see a Clifford branded as a Viper though; they are seperate systems. Viper are decent alarms but if the OP has been sold a Clifford and charged accordingly then they need to confirm what they have.

The keyfob would be the most obvious giveaway as to the brand.

Again I never got a key fob as it works off my original car keys, I did get a little sticky thing for in the window that says clifford, I payed 50euro extra for that though, otherwise the only thing I could see until today was a little red button that lights up, I never thought that it would be the wrong alarm installed, I specifically said clifford. Even asking about installing the remote start too, but I was told it doesn't work on my car, I've a 2010 scirocco

Dord

djimi wrote: »

Yeah that doesnt sound like a Clifford...

Where abouts are you? MDS in Ballyfermot in Dublin would be one of the main Clifford agents in Ireland; if you are in the area or fancy taking a trip Id say give Brendan a shout and maybe see if he will give you a second opinion as to what has been installed.

+1 to MDS. They're sound lads there.

Definitely go back to the place where you got it though.

yr one

djimi wrote: »

Yeah that doesnt sound like a Clifford...

Where abouts are you? MDS in Ballyfermot in Dublin would be one of the main Clifford agents in Ireland; if you are in the area or fancy taking a trip Id say give Brendan a shout and maybe see if he will give you a second opinion as to what has been installed.

The box on the inside specifically says viper, it's got one large wiring loom, then a little one beside it, then on the smaller edge of the box it's got 3 wiring looms, the middle one is blue.

That means double Dutch to me, but maybe one of yourselves may know it.

The only part that has clifford is the little sticker thing on the screen that i payed an extra 50euro for. The only other part of the alarm visible is the little red button

colm_mcm

Both Clifford alarms I've had had a blue LED.

I really hope they didn't charge you €50 for a sticker.

djimi

Inside where? Inside the cockpit or under the bonnet?

You really need to get this checked out by a third party. The flashing light for Cliffords is blue, not red...

djimi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Both Clifford alarms I've had had a blue LED.

I really hope they didn't charge you €50 for a sticker.

Im really hoping that its this and not just a normal sticker...

http://caralarms.ie/clifford-window-flasher.php

yr one

colm_mcm wrote: »

Both Clifford alarms I've had had a blue LED.

I really hope they didn't charge you €50 for a sticker.

It's a flashy blue sticker that says protected by clifford... So yep pretty much..

I had a google before I posted about the red light and all the clifford ones seem to have little blue dots that say clifford above or below them.

This is literally a little red dot about the size of a cent, that presses in an flashes..

yr one

djimi wrote: »

Im really hoping that its this and not just a normal sticker...

Yes that is it!!

yr one

djimi wrote: »

Inside where? Inside the cockpit or under the bonnet?

You really need to get this checked out by a third party. The flashing light for Cliffords is blue, not red...

Do you mean the red light? It's inside the cockpit on the drivers side..

So I look like a right tool to possible car thiefs with a wannabe clifford... Brilliant!

djimi

yr one wrote: »

Do you mean the red light? It's inside the cockpit on the drivers side..

So I look like a right tool to possible car thiefs with a wannabe clifford... Brilliant!

No the box that says Viper; where is it?

noelf

yr one wrote: »

Do you mean the red light? It's inside the cockpit on the drivers side..

So I look like a right tool to possible car thiefs with a wannabe clifford... Brilliant!

Are you going to name and shame the cowboys who installed this ?

yr one

so I had a look on the page and the alarm I thought that was being installed was the clifford arrow 5.1 (I think, there's that many of them I could be wrong)

It was supposed to have the remote start, shock sensors and proximity sensors but I was told that the remote start isn't compatible with my car.. Still paid the 450 though.. Slowly getting more and more irritated too

yr one

djimi wrote: »

No the box that says Viper; where is it?

Oh sorry, it was in behind the little pocket where I keep my change, petty much at the steering wheel on the right inside the dash.. My brother found it earlier cause the neighbours were complaining of the noise waking up the babies so we tried to find the main box to try turn it down

yr one

noelf wrote: »

Are you going to name and shame the cowboys who installed this ?

Are you aloud to post stuff like that on here?? I don't fully know the rules?

djimi

yr one wrote: »

Are you aloud to post stuff like that on here?? I don't fully know the rules?

No you're not.

yr one

djimi wrote: »

No you're not.

That's fine

yr one

So it's not stopped and as it's 10pm all the kiddos are in bed, we've resorted to almost demolition..

Pretty much took out the fuse that was stuck in the bundle of cables beside the viper box.. Then popped it back in it Killed everything alarm wise.. Except now it looks like the alarms disabled on the stupid sticker.. So we pulled it out as much as possible and snipped the wires.. No more 50euro sticker.. Locked the car and it works on the original alarm fine. Not a beep out of it when I press the lock/unlock buttons.. But the little red thing still flashes!?

I've given up on this, my patience is gone to nil, I've mailed the people in question, seeing that I don't think I will get a reply I will drop over and have it removed, possible will sell it online.

The store where it was purchased is highly recommended and funny enough I know some of them through a friend, I won't be naming names. But I'm seriously let down

djimi

If pulling the fuse killed the alarm why did you start snipping wires?

Also the fact that you were able to kill the alarm by pulling a fuse from inside the car shows that it wasnt exactly installed very securely...

yr one

djimi wrote: »

If pulling the fuse killed the alarm why did you start snipping wires?

Also the fact that you were able to kill the alarm by pulling a fuse from inside the car shows that it wasnt exactly installed very securely...

Should it be harder than taking out the fuse? It wasn't located in the fuse box, it was stupidly taped into a bundle of cables mashed in beside the viper box..

Because the clifford sticky thing is sitting in the window screaming: I'm not working!
Plus I'm fed up with it.. It's going back to the installer, may even have it removed and bring my business elsewhere for a proper alarm install

yr one

I've actually one other thing to ask about the alarm, the cables and wires all go back to the drivers side dash, they are quite close to the steering wheel, and my brothers just highlighted the fact that the steering had started to hum since I had the alarm fitted.. Could that be the alarm rubbing or cables tangling causing the hum? I had a mechanic look at it and he said all was well..

djimi

yr one wrote: »

Should it be harder than taking out the fuse? It wasn't located in the fuse box, it was stupidly taped into a bundle of cables mashed in beside the viper box..

Because the clifford sticky thing is sitting in the window screaming: I'm not working!
Plus I'm fed up with it.. It's going back to the installer, may even have it removed and bring my business elsewhere for a proper alarm install

Of course it should be harder than that; if you could disable the alarm by pulling a fuse then anyone trying to take the car could easily do the same. Those sort of things are supposed to be hidden well away within the bodywork of the car, making it very different to locate them. By design it is supposed to be very difficult to disable an alarm, especially a Clifford (if indeed this is what you have installed).

yr one

djimi wrote: »

Of course it should be harder than that; if you could disable the alarm by pulling a fuse then anyone trying to take the car could easily do the same. Those sort of things are supposed to be hidden well away within the bodywork of the car, making it very different to locate them. By design it is supposed to be very difficult to disable an alarm, especially a Clifford (if indeed this is what you have installed).

I'm 100% sure this isn't a clifford, I know nothing about car alarms other, sound systems id know a little, otherwise I leave it to professionals but It literally took me 2-3 mins of looking around to find the main box... Its actually right where thiefs would break the dash to access the wiring loom and ignition...

Chris_Heilong

One of my old Clifford alarms had a red LED light.

djimi

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

One of my old Clifford alarms had a red LED light.

I suppose in theory the light can be any color, but from my experience (certainly recently) Cliffords come nowadays with blue lights; I think its seen as a branding thing at this stage.

noelf

yr one wrote: »

Are you aloud to post stuff like that on here?? I don't fully know the rules?

lesson learned guess I was getting angry for you been stung for E450 ...and for you now having to disable it ..

yr one

noelf wrote: »

lesson learned guess I was getting angry for you been stung for E450 ...and for you now having to disable it ..

I woke this morning and for a few seconds forgot about it, then bam.. Reminded of it, I'm going to drive past the place today and see if anyone is about, other wise it will be at lunch during the week. Sent an email about it, with no reply, fair enough it's a bank holiday weekend, but tomorrow I will be on the ball.

Just so I know before I pop over, is there much of a price difference between viper and is the standard much worse on a viper?

I don't wanna get sucked into a spiel about viper being better and they were doing me a favour, as I read online that clifford are one of the more advance alarms so that's why I got it.

djimi

It is my understanding that Viper is a budget label that is owned by Clifford (or they are both owned by the same company). Viper alarms seem to be perfectly fine (my girlfriend had one in her previous car), however Clifford alarms are a premium brand, and are priced accordingly. If I had asked for a Clifford and had been led to believe that that is what I had paid for and what was installed in my car then I would be extremely annoyed to find out that a Viper had actually been installed instead.

That said, Im not an expert by any means on car alarms (I just happen to have experience of both Clifford and Viper from having them in cars). It is possible that they share components, and that is what you are seeing. However, from what you have described it doesnt sound likely that you have a Clifford installed, nor does it sound like it was installed at all properly or securely.

If you are in any doubt then it would be advisable to seek out another Clifford installer and get a second opinion from them.

coolisin

Op can you send me a pm with car alarm installer details.
I want to make sure I'm not crossing their paths.
Thanks

yr one

coolisin wrote: »

Op can you send me a pm with car alarm installer details.
I want to make sure I'm not crossing their paths.
Thanks

Message sent to you there

Phoenix3

Hi can you PM me as well the name of installer?

coolisin

Thanks.

As I said I'm shocked the alarm was fitted so badly.

It's a concern I have of getting a proximity alarm, if I get one every small bit of wildlife in a 2 mile area sets it off.

Me personally I'd be ringing the guys mobile number.
Constantly you've blown €500 on an alarm that you an amateur car thief disabled in a few mins.

djimi

coolisin wrote: »

It's a concern I have of getting a proximity alarm, if I get one every small bit of wildlife in a 2 mile area sets it off.

It doesnt really. The one on my car was annoying at first because it was set to be too sensitive, but I turned it down a notch and now it only chirps when someone is standing beside the car looking in (it takes a couple of seconds, so someone walking by for example wont set it off).

Its also quite useful in that it will chirp when a car gets too close to it. I have seen it being set off my idiots who are getting a bit too close when parking, and it usually has the positive effect of getting them the hell away from my car!

I dont know how much use it is in reality, but I guess it gives me peace of mind that my car is able to tell people to **** off! The way I see it, if anyone is debating whether I have an actual Clifford or just the stickers and lights then maybe the prox sensor might persuade them that my car just isnt worth the effort.

coolisin

It's as much a case of something extra to annoy them as they try and steal the car!

Which means they might move on!

Yeah what I want is it set like that you look in through the window it'll go off.

But the alarm should be hard for a person to disable.

yr one

Phoenix3 wrote: »

Hi can you PM me as well the name of installer?

Hi there pm sent

My phones going dead but I'm going to charge it up and post some photos later, thanks for the advice folks

Wibbs

Yr one? You were ripped off and no mistake. Demand your money back and your car returned to how it was before. Go somewhere else. Don't trust these gobshítes to "fix" the problem. The facts as you lay them out here illustrates they wouldn't know where to start. And this is why you read stories of "ah sure they took my car and it had an alarm, these guys are experts".

Example 1)

yr one wrote: »

The box on the inside specifically says viper, it's got one large wiring loom, then a little one beside it, then on the smaller edge of the box it's got 3 wiring looms, the middle one is blue.

Oh sorry, it was in behind the little pocket where I keep my change, petty much at the steering wheel on the right inside the dash.. My brother found it earlier cause the neighbours were complaining of the noise waking up the babies so we tried to find the main box to try turn it down

What you're describing is the alarm "brain". If it's says viper it's a Viper, not a Clifford. Secondly if it's that easy to access then it's not an alarm, it's an expensive wiring disaster waiting to happen.

Funny enough I'd bet the farm that a lot of if not the majority of folks reading this with third party alarms will also find their alarm brain under the dash on the drivers side with the main fuse in plain sight(the one your brother pulled disabling the alarm), the starter "kill" as obvious as the nose on your face, wires only twisted together, not soldered and all badly wrapped with insulation tape, with the flashing LED stuck through a blank panel on the dash.

Over the years with mine and mates cars, I've only seen a couple of installs worth a damn and that includes Cliffords BTW. To be fair one of the good ones was a Clifford and IIRC it was MDS who installed it. Again IIRC that install had the brain under the carpet under the drivers seat and the wire trail was well hidden. One Clifford "install" I saw I was able to bypass in a couple of minutes and that was me being careful and I'm no auto electrician.

djimi wrote: »

It is my understanding that Viper is a budget label that is owned by Clifford (or they are both owned by the same company). Viper alarms seem to be perfectly fine (my girlfriend had one in her previous car), however Clifford alarms are a premium brand, and are priced accordingly.

Both are brands of the DEI group of alarms. Python is another. Quality? In the US more would know Viper as the premium and different regions get different alarm models. Depending on the system some components are compatible. At one time, but not so much now a top of the range Clifford this year could be rebranded a Viper the next, particularly in the US.

Choice between the two? Personally I'd prefer a top range Viper over an entry level Clifford. It depends on the model and what I'd want in a system. Most of all I'd prefer an entry level of either brand properly installed. I have a Viper. Thatcham level 1 with three separate immobiliser circuits and three ports for additional sensors, all black wiring etc. I would have gone for a Clifford, if I had found one with that kind of spec.

Proximity sensors are, or can be tricky to setup. You need to know what you're doing and take time as they kinda "bed in". They're affected by position in the car. Centre console, a common site to install IMHO isn't the best. under the top of the dash or under the headlining I found better. They can also be affected by temperature. In winter the trigger zone tends to expand. They also have two triggers. One fires up the warning beeps, the second fires up the alarm. I've seen that reversed because the idiot installer either wired it wrongly or set the adjusters arseways, or wired it so it only had one trigger, full alarm.

BTW don't bother with remote start. It's a gimmick and really aimed at automatic cars in the US. It's a nightmare on a manual and could be an accident waiting to happen. Plus I'll bet the farm you'd only ever use it a couple of times.

Secondly do NOT advertise your alarm with stickers, especially dopey light up ones. 50 quid? WTF. Why give any more information to the scum? Always keep them guessing. The flashing LED and proximity sensor should be enough to tell them it's alarmed and alert.

If you want a shopping list of what to ask for I can do that if you like.



The reason I got into this stuff? I had a car stolen 14 years ago. Luckily I got it back and swore never again, or I'd make it as much of a pain in the arse for the scum as possible. I did some research and couldn't believe how easy most alarm installs are to disable.

Wibbs

coolisin wrote: »

It's as much a case of something extra to annoy them as they try and steal the car!

Which means they might move on!

Properly fitted an alarm with immobiliser(s) should basically render the car unstealable without the keys or a towtruck. Yr one's "alarm" is essentially worthless. IMHO a well hidden and wired in kill switch costing pennies in parts would be more effective a means of keeping your car from the scum.

But the alarm should be hard for a person to disable.

+1000. It should be very hard to find and get to for a start.

The big problem is customer ignorance and expectation about car alarms, so some alarm fitters take the easiest route. Naturally as it takes far less time and so they make more money/can charge less(and makes it easier to trace wiring faults under warranty). For many as we see, the outward stickers, the name and such is what people are drawn to. That stuff should be the last on the list, if not completely taken off the list.

yr one

Hi so I've taken the pictures, new to boards so if anyone can direct me to how to post them I would be grateful, thanks

yr one

Wibbs wrote: »

Yr one? You were ripped off and no mistake. Demand your money back and your car returned to how it was before. Go somewhere else. Don't trust these gobshítes to "fix" the problem. The facts as you lay them out here illustrates they wouldn't know where to start. And this is why you read stories of "ah sure they took my car and it had an alarm, these guys are experts".

Example 1)



What you're describing is the alarm "brain". If it's says viper it's a Viper, not a Clifford. Secondly if it's that easy to access then it's not an alarm, it's an expensive wiring disaster waiting to happen.

Funny enough I'd bet the farm that a lot of if not the majority of folks reading this with third party alarms will also find their alarm brain under the dash on the drivers side with the main fuse in plain sight(the one your brother pulled disabling the alarm), the starter "kill" as obvious as the nose on your face, wires only twisted together, not soldered and all badly wrapped with insulation tape, with the flashing LED stuck through a blank panel on the dash.

Over the years with mine and mates cars, I've only seen a couple of installs worth a damn and that includes Cliffords BTW. To be fair one of the good ones was a Clifford and IIRC it was MDS who installed it. Again IIRC that install had the brain under the carpet under the drivers seat and the wire trail was well hidden. One Clifford "install" I saw I was able to bypass in a couple of minutes and that was me being careful and I'm no auto electrician.

Both are brands of the DEI group of alarms. Python is another. Quality? In the US more would know Viper as the premium and different regions get different alarm models. Depending on the system some components are compatible. At one time, but not so much now a top of the range Clifford this year could be rebranded a Viper the next, particularly in the US.

Choice between the two? Personally I'd prefer a top range Viper over an entry level Clifford. It depends on the model and what I'd want in a system. Most of all I'd prefer an entry level of either brand properly installed. I have a Viper. Thatcham level 1 with three separate immobiliser circuits and three ports for additional sensors, all black wiring etc. I would have gone for a Clifford, if I had found one with that kind of spec.

Proximity sensors are, or can be tricky to setup. You need to know what you're doing and take time as they kinda "bed in". They're affected by position in the car. Centre console, a common site to install IMHO isn't the best. under the top of the dash or under the headlining I found better. They can also be affected by temperature. In winter the trigger zone tends to expand. They also have two triggers. One fires up the warning beeps, the second fires up the alarm. I've seen that reversed because the idiot installer either wired it wrongly or set the adjusters arseways, or wired it so it only had one trigger, full alarm.

BTW don't bother with remote start. It's a gimmick and really aimed at automatic cars in the US. It's a nightmare on a manual and could be an accident waiting to happen. Plus I'll bet the farm you'd only ever use it a couple of times.

Secondly do NOT advertise your alarm with stickers, especially dopey light up ones. 50 quid? WTF. Why give any more information to the scum? Always keep them guessing. The flashing LED and proximity sensor should be enough to tell them it's alarmed and alert.

If you want a shopping list of what to ask for I can do that if you like.



The reason I got into this stuff? I had a car stolen 14 years ago. Luckily I got it back and swore never again, or I'd make it as much of a pain in the arse for the scum as possible. I did some research and couldn't believe how easy most alarm installs are to disable.

Hi thanks for your help, yes I know the engine start is a gimmick but I suppose I thought it would be fun for a little while

I'm bringing it back, doubt I will get a refund but I will try my best, I'm thinking of getting the clifford that has the tracking from an app on your phone? Don't know how secure it is but it sounds neat.

If you want to pm me about what are decent kits I would much appreciate it, thanks

yr one

Wibbs wrote: »

Properly fitted an alarm with immobiliser(s) should basically render the car unstealable without the keys or a towtruck. Yr one's "alarm" is essentially worthless. IMHO a well hidden and wired in kill switch costing pennies in parts would be more effective a means of keeping your car from the scum.

+1000. It should be very hard to find and get to for a start.

The big problem is customer ignorance and expectation about car alarms, so some alarm fitters take the easiest route. Naturally as it takes far less time and so they make more money/can charge less(and makes it easier to trace wiring faults under warranty). For many as we see, the outward stickers, the name and such is what people are drawn to. That stuff should be the last on the list, if not completely taken off the list.

I kinda liked my sticker, for 450euro it was the only thing that had clifford on it!!! The rest is viper

Wibbs

yr one wrote: »

If you want to pm me about what are decent kits I would much appreciate it, thanks

Viper or Clifford are fine Yr. Look at the specs rather than the name if you know what I mean. What would I look for and in my humble?

Two circuits immobilised. Get them to immobilise things the ignition and fuel, rather than the starter. The latter is too easy to bypass.

Battery backed up siren. This will continue to sound even if wires are cut.

Sensors.
Avoid the shock sensor, it's a real pain for false alarms. Instead add in a tilt/motion sensor and a proximity sensor. Make sure the sensor can be temporarily disabled from the fob(for parking etc). It goes without saying that opening the boot, doors or bonnet should trigger the alarm.

Install locations. This is the most important bit IMHO. The alarm brain should NOT be behind the dash near the ignition. Actually avoid the dash entirely, unless you have to remove the entire dashboard to get to the brain, or you have enough space behind the dial cluster and it can't be reached by an undernourished scumbags hand. Other locations include buried in the centre console, or under the carpet under one of the seats. Somewhere that would require time and tools to get to even if you know where it is.* If the installer bitches about this go to another one.

The siren should NOT be in the usual place, under the bonnet bolted to the bulkhead in plain site(I'll bet your current one is). Other better locations include buried in behind a bumper, or in a wing.

Wires should be soldered, not twisted together. All wiring should be hidden in the factory wires as much as possible. Stick the warning LED somewhere different, like the top of the dash, the rear view mirror base, bottom of an A pillar, that sort of thing. Make it unusual. Extending the wires to do this is easy.

Avoid gimmicks like remote start. Avoid alarm stickers advertising what you have. You know what you have, that's what matters.


PS trackers are brilliant, but get a good one. Secondly they only come into play after your pride and joy is nicked. That's cool, but IMHO the first line of defence is to stop them moving it in the first place.



*If you want to get real evil, get an old alarm brain from a scrapyard and stick it under the dash in the usual place. Confuse the scum more.

yr one

Boards pop up says I cannot post photos or links as I am new, if I forward on the link could someone else share it so you can see the install

Thanks

yr one

Hi wibbs, thanks for the reply, yep the sounder is actually screwed onto the windscreen wash tank, i will include a photo of that in the link of it can be posted