Water in oil tank.

muddle84

So I have now bought my first house, just got the keys today.So on our first evening in the house pulling at everything and seeing what works and what doesn't I have noticed that the cap is missing off the oil tank:mad:

There is quite alot of liquid in the tank, I say liquid because I am sure it is water as the house was empty for a year or so, so it has to be mostly water.

So what is the best way to attack this??? I am thinking the following
- Empty all liquid out of tank
- drain thee line from tank to house
- fill with oil
- bleed

Is there anything else I should be doing? Is there a filter in the burner or anything that I should be cleaning/ replacing?

richieburke01

you can get a tube of water paste from plumbing supplier
Get a long bit of stick smear it with the paste it will change colour if there is water in it
Then you call professional to sort this

scudo2

muddle84 wrote: »

So I have now bought my first house, just got the keys today.So on our first evening in the house pulling at everything and seeing what works and what doesn't I have noticed that the cap is missing off the oil tank:mad:

There is quite alot of liquid in the tank, I say liquid because I am sure it is water as the house was empty for a year or so, so it has to be mostly water.

So what is the best way to attack this??? I am thinking the following
- Empty all liquid out of tank
- drain thee line from tank to house
- fill with oil
- bleed

Is there anything else I should be doing? Is there a filter in the burner or anything that I should be cleaning/ replacing?

I am not a plumber but I will not pay for a plumber to do this until I am sure that I can't do it myself so please I don't want to hear advice telling me to pay somebody to do this.:D

Bad attitude to start with to us plumber here who give as much information safely that we can "FREE OF CHARGE"

Fairly insulting, actually.




Have fun.

muddle84

It was not my intent to cause insult. For this I apologise!

jimf

what you intend to do with oil if you have to dispose of it

muddle84

I intend to exactly that, dispose of it? I would probably put it into drums and bring it to a council depot or something.

scudo2

jimf wrote: »

what you intend to do with oil if you have to dispose of it

10 miniute job.
Its easy to get 100% of the water out and still keep 100% of the good oil................................

richieburke01

Water hogs are available

pa990

Disconnect the pipe after the stop valve on the side of the tank.
Then empty the water into a container.
Stop when it turns red, that's kerosene. .
But if you want to be safe, empty all the contents.

Then, remove the rest of what's in the pipe between the trank and boiler.
By Bleeding the boiler.

You can dispose of the liquid at your local amenity Centre, or your oil supplier might take it, if you explain the situation, when ordering your next fill of kerosene.
.



* I am not a plumber

scudo2

pa990 wrote: »

Disconnect the pipe after the stop valve on the side of the tank.
Then empty the water into a container.
Stop when it turns red, that's kerosene. .
But if you want to be safe, empty all the contents.

Then, remove the rest of what's in the pipe between the trank and boiler.
By Bleeding the boiler.

You can dispose of the liquid at your local amenity Centre, or your oil supplier might take it, if you explain the situation, when ordering your next fill of kerosene.
.



* I am not a plumber

You'll still have 3" of water in the tank up to the outlet pipe ready to destroy the next €95 oil pump if just a teaspoon of water gets to it.



????? Original post said oil in water tank????
I presumed it's the other way around.

richieburke01

WATER HOG

shane 007

pa990 wrote: »

Disconnect the pipe after the stop valve on the side of the tank.
Then empty the water into a container.
Stop when it turns red, that's kerosene. .
But if you want to be safe, empty all the contents.

That would leave approx 30mm of water at the bottom of the tank as the outlet is raised from the bottom.
It would need to be suctioned if of any volume and/or water hog for smaller volumes as Richie suggested.
Syphon suctions are best as pumps generally agitate & mix the fuel & water. The syphon will remove the water from the bottom without agitation.

muddle84

scudo2 wrote: »

You'll still have 3" of water in the tank up to the outlet pipe ready to destroy the next €95 oil pump if just a teaspoon of water gets to it.

So do you really have to tip the tank forward to get all the water out?? or is it better to use some kind of pump to suck it out?

shane 007

muddle84 wrote: »

So do you really have to tip the tank forward to get all the water out?? or is it better to use some kind of pump to suck it out?

Never under any circumstance tip an oil tank.

muddle84

shane 007 wrote: »

Never under any circumstance tip an oil tank.

Ok so its some sort of syphon I guess so..

Why should you never tip an oil tank out of interest?

richieburke01

EPA would have a field day with you

muddle84

Ok just to be clear here I don't plan to spill anything out on the lawn, anything I take out will be put into drums.

Tell me more about a waterhog? Where can I get one of these and how much are they?

shane 007

muddle84 wrote: »

Ok so its some sort of syphon I guess so..

Why should you never tip an oil tank out of interest?

Firstly, health & safety. They are not light, so damage to your back.
Secondly, it could fall from its support & cause an environmental hazard.
Thirdly, you can damage the tank itself as the whole of the tank is not correctly supported & stress zones may surpass their limits.
Finally, pipework must be detached & re-attached correctly & you are running risks of leaks & spillage.

What I do not understand is you want to save a few bucks by doing the works yourself. You may end up costing yourself a lot more in the long run. You have just bought your new home. Why not get a recommended OFTEC engineer to service the boiler to ensure it is running cleanly & efficiently, thus saving you long term oil usage, they can remove & dispose of the contaminated waste properly, and advice you of any further risks/concerns there are with your system.

agusta

muddle84 wrote: »

So I have now bought my first house, just got the keys today.So on our first evening in the house pulling at everything and seeing what works and what doesn't I have noticed that the cap is missing off the oil tank:mad:

There is quite alot of liquid in the tank, I say liquid because I am sure it is water as the house was empty for a year or so, so it has to be mostly water.

So what is the best way to attack this??? I am thinking the following
- Empty all liquid out of tank
- drain thee line from tank to house
- fill with oil
- bleed

Is there anything else I should be doing? Is there a filter in the burner or anything that I should be cleaning/ replacing?

In my opinion your best bet here is to get a competent oil boiler service technician to service your boiler.Yes there is filters in your burner that need to be cleaned and checked for contamination.Its overdue a service and the service technician will help you sort out your oil tank correctly

richieburke01

Where you based

pa990

shane 007 wrote: »

That would leave approx 30mm of water at the bottom of the tank as the outlet is raised from the bottom.
It would need to be suctioned if of any volume and/or water hog for smaller volumes as Richie suggested.
Syphon suctions are best as pumps generally agitate & mix the fuel & water. The syphon will remove the water from the bottom without agitation.

Lift the tank (get someone to help) and place a plank of wood etc, under it. To remove the water that is below the outlet.

And a service

agusta

shane 007 wrote: »

Firstly, health & safety. They are not light, so damage to your back.
Secondly, it could fall from its support & cause an environmental hazard.
Thirdly, you can damage the tank itself as the whole of the tank is not correctly supported & stress zones may surpass their limits.
Finally, pipework must be detached & re-attached correctly & you are running risks of leaks & spillage.

What I do not understand is you want to save a few bucks by doing the works yourself. You may end up costing yourself a lot more in the long run. You have just bought your new home. Why not get a recommended OFTEC engineer to service the boiler to ensure it is running cleanly & efficiently, thus saving you long term oil usage, they can remove & dispose of the contaminated waste properly, and advice you of any further risks/concerns there are with your system.

I was doing some of the renovation work on a house 2 years ago due to an slight oil leak at the oil tank.The slight leak was on the oil pipe connected to the valve on the oil tank and the tank very near the house.The cost to repair the damage was over 100k

jimf

scudo2 wrote: »

10 miniute job.
Its easy to get 100% of the water out and still keep 100% of the good oil................................

we know that

jca

It must be lean times for plumbers when they're all vying for a simple tank draining!! Empty all you can into drums. Then lift the rear of the tank as high as you can to get the remaining liquid out. The easiest way to lift it without breaking your back is to use old boards across the rear of the tank. Keep adding one at a time until it's empty. Be careful it doesn't slide forward off the platform. If the tank is mounted properly i.e. the rear of the tank lower than the front any small amount of water will end up at this lowest point well away from the outlet and should never give trouble. Change the outlet filter and get oil. When the oil is delivered leave the tank for a few hours preferably overnight to settle and allow any small amount of water to make its way to the lowest point. Disconnect the oil feed into the burner and turn on the tap at the tank and let the oil run into a bottle until it's nice and red.

scudo2

muddle84 wrote: »

Ok just to be clear here I don't plan to spill anything out on the lawn, anything I take out will be put into drums.

Tell me more about a waterhog? Where can I get one of these and how much are they?

Ok ok
Garden hose taped to a stick/broom handel, leave it extend by 2"
Put it to the very bottom of tank. Blow back through hose to clear it of good oil. Then suck and siphon water. When it changes to oil colour stop it. Tank ok now.
Drain oil line to boiler to flush out excess water.
Unfortunately 95% chance oil pump is beyond repair and you will need service man to fit new one and reajust for boiler and output + nozzle.
You can buy an oil pump yourself but you have no way of calabration it properly for your boiler.

Service engineers are not out to rip you off but to provide helpfull good value service.

(Hopefully)

richieburke01

Serious but funny
I was called to a house and the client said the oil boiler wasn't working
so tried the oil boiler no joy
When to see if there was oil in the tank nearly fell down laughing at what i saw
10mm T.R.V. valve

pa990

Ah lads. The Guy wants to do it on a budget.

Let him get most of the water out ,presuming that an uncovered tank has loads of water in it, and then use a water sock/hog to remove the remaining water.

I understand that everyone has to make a living. But some people are trying to live.

jca

richieburke01 wrote: »

EPA would have a field day with you

My local recycling centre takes all flammable liquids and used engine oil too. I'm sure there are many others around the country doing the same.

richieburke01

OK hose trick will do but not ideal and there could be damage to the burner

shane 007

jca wrote: »

It must be lean times for plumbers when they're all vying for a simple tank draining!! Empty all you can into drums. Then lift the rear of the tank as high as you can to get the remaining liquid out. The easiest way to lift it without breaking your back is to use old boards across the rear of the tank. Keep adding one at a time until it's empty. Be careful it doesn't slide forward off the platform. If the tank is mounted properly i.e. the rear of the tank lower than the front any small amount of water will end up at this lowest point well away from the outlet and should never give trouble. Change the outlet filter and get oil. When the oil is delivered leave the tank for a few hours preferably overnight to settle and allow any small amount of water to make its way to the lowest point. Disconnect the oil feed into the burner and turn on the tap at the tank and let the oil run into a bottle until it's nice and red.

Who is vying to do it?
Advice is not doing the work AFAIK! To give advice you should give the correct advice that is as per regulations/industry best procedures & that would be acceptable by home insurance companies.
Now, unless you are offering to foot the bill personally for the OP should the tank slip from the "plank of wood" & cause a €20k clean up for environmental & water table damage, then I would say offer your wonderful advice away...

Billy Bunting

pa990 wrote: »

Lift the tank (get someone to help) and place a plank of wood etc, under it. To remove the water that is below the outlet.

And a service

I know where you'll find a plank. :rolleyes:

If you must save a pound ............

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-104616-Fluid-Extractor-Litre/dp/B003G2YV1I

jca

shane 007 wrote: »

Who is vying to do it?
Advice is not doing the work AFAIK! To give advice you should give the correct advice that is as per regulations/industry best procedures & that would be acceptable by home insurance companies.
Now, unless you are offering to foot the bill personally for the OP should the tank slip from the "plank of wood" & cause a €20k clean up for environmental & water table damage, then I would say offer your wonderful advice away...

20K?? He's wanting to empty some water from a tank..... Not difficult. A warm winter makes for a tetchy plumber..... :cool:

scudo2

richieburke01 wrote: »

OK hose trick will do but not ideal and there could be damage to the burner

Hose trick ?????
Not ideal ????

Why not ?
I've only been doing it that way on a monthly basis for over 25 years.
+ OP doesn't have a siphon pump.

Billy Bunting

jca wrote: »

20K?? He's wanting to empty some water from a tank..... Not difficult.

Another plank ?

pa990

Op

Just make sure you are wearing a hi viz jacket and hard hat and if going up a step ladder, use a harness.

Also don't forget to use cordon tape, cones and warning signs.

A few flashing becons may be useful, but since you are dealing with flamible liquids maybe warning flags would be safer.

And draw up a safety statement before you start.

muddle84

richieburke01 wrote: »

Where you based

Mayo!

agusta wrote: »

I was doing some of the renovation work on a house 2 years ago due to an slight oil leak at the oil tank.The slight leak was on the oil pipe connected to the valve on the oil tank and the tank very near the house.The cost to repair the damage was over 100k

100k???? From an oil leak???? How does an oil leak cause 100k of damage to a house??

scudo2 wrote: »

Ok ok
Garden hose taped to a stick/broom handel, leave it extend by 2"
Put it to the very bottom of tank. Blow back through hose to clear it of good oil. Then suck and siphon water. When it changes to oil colour stop it. Tank ok now.
Drain oil line to boiler to flush out excess water.
Unfortunately 95% chance oil pump is beyond repair and you will need service man to fit new one and reajust for boiler and output + nozzle.
You can buy an oil pump yourself but you have no way of calabration it properly for your boiler.

Service engineers are not out to rip you off but to provide helpfull good value service.

(Hopefully)

I know that and I am not implying that anyone is out to rip me off. As far as I can see it cant be that hard to sort the tank. I agree with you all that a technician should service it. But if I can have the tank sorted and save on an extra few hours labour all the better. I have enough things that I have to spend on the house besides this!

I should probably add that it is not just a need to save money, I have a general interest in how things work and fixing things. I am technically minded and quite competent with my hands.

Thanks for all your advice, it is much appreciated!

shane 007

jca wrote: »

20K?? He's wanting to empty some water from a tank..... Not difficult. A warm winter makes for a tetchy plumber..... :cool:

Last clean up from an oil tank spill I was involved with cost €25k. I also was involved with one where the spill on was a newly laid Tarmac drive. That clean up cost €60k. DGOBS was with one that the house had to be partly rebuilt.

Oil clean up costs are enormous as all ground works must be removed & shipped to Scotland. (Apparently the Scots don't mind contaminated oil!).

Now, of the insurance assessor decides that the spill was the cause of the homeowner due to not carrying out correct procedures to save a few quid, they may elect to not pay out at all or ascertain a large proportioned of the costs to the homeowner.
If I am called to an oil spill, I am duty bound to report the incident to the EPA & the LA (Water Board). The EPA has more powers than Customs.

jimf

pa990 wrote: »

Op

Just make sure you are wearing a hi viz jacket and hard hat and if going up a step ladder, use a harness.

Also don't forget to use cordon tape, cones and warning signs.

A few flashing becons may be useful, but since you are dealing with flamible liquids maybe warning flags would be safer.

And draw up a safety statement before you start.

and after all this extra expense he still has water in his tank that he needs to remove

Billy Bunting

shane 007 wrote: »

Last clean up from an oil tank spill I was involved with cost €25k. I also was involved with one where the spill on was a newly laid Tarmac drive. That clean up cost €60k. DGOBS was with one that the house had to be partly rebuilt.

Oil clean up costs are enormous as all ground works must be removed & shipped to Scotland. (Apparently the Scots don't mind contaminated oil!).

Now, of the insurance assessor decides that the spill was the cause of the homeowner due to not carrying out correct procedures to save a few quid, they may elect to not pay out at all or ascertain a large proportioned of the costs to the homeowner.
If I am called to an oil spill, I am duty bound to report the incident to the EPA & the LA (Water Board). The EPA has more powers than Customs.

Ah sha cum on!! its a thick plank.

muddle84

shane 007 wrote: »

Last clean up from an oil tank spill I was involved with cost €25k. I also was involved with one where the spill on was a newly laid Tarmac drive. That clean up cost €60k. DGOBS was with one that the house had to be partly rebuilt.

Oil clean up costs are enormous as all ground works must be removed & shipped to Scotland. (Apparently the Scots don't mind contaminated oil!).

Now, of the insurance assessor decides that the spill was the cause of the homeowner due to not carrying out correct procedures to save a few quid, they may elect to not pay out at all or ascertain a large proportioned of the costs to the homeowner.
If I am called to an oil spill, I am duty bound to report the incident to the EPA & the LA (Water Board). The EPA has more powers than Customs.

Out of interest, what do you work at?

shane 007

pa990 wrote: »

Op

Just make sure you are wearing a hi viz jacket and hard hat and if going up a step ladder, use a harness.

Also don't forget to use cordon tape, cones and warning signs.

A few flashing becons may be useful, but since you are dealing with flamible liquids maybe warning flags would be safer.

And draw up a safety statement before you start.

Why come to a professional forum for advice to do it professionally when you can get great advice like this from a DIY'er. Perhaps the best place for the answer you are looking for is in the DIY forum. You will most likely get whatever answer you are looking for there. I'm afraid professional persons can only give professional advice.

shane 007

muddle84 wrote: »

Out of interest, what do you work at?

Oil & gas & part-time lecturer in same.

Snake

Sure look my boiler had to be bled when I moved into my new house and plumber fee was 50 euro... Think I didn't try sort it myself? I did, but it didn't work and I decided to leave it be coz I may as we'll be looking at a cows a rse as trying to fix her myself like. Call a plumber get them to fix it, you don't know what you're at because you had to come on here to ask, don't be a clown

hevac

I'm sure you mean "water in the oil tank". The water tank is
in your attic!

A few years back, we came across a 600 gal. oil tank that
was 3/4 full. It had not been used for years, and condensation
had built up. We took the plug out of the sludge valve, and
just cracked the valve open. The water dripped out slowly.
The oil floats.. water sinks. Collect the water in a bucket
until the oil appears.

You would need to clean the oil filter, and just run some oil
through, just to make sure it's clear. If there is a bleed screw
on the oil pump, open it until the oil flies out.

Finally..put a lid on the oil tank.

Billy Bunting

hevac wrote: »

I'm sure you mean "water in the oil tank". The water tank is
in your attic!

A few years back, we came across a 600 gal. oil tank that
was 3/4 full. It had not been used for years, and condensation
had built up. We took the plug out of the sludge valve, and
just cracked the valve open. The water dripped out slowly.
The oil floats.. water sinks. Collect the water in a bucket
until the oil appears.

You would need to clean the oil filter, and just run some oil
through, just to make sure it's clear. If there is a bleed screw
on the oil pump, open it until the oil flies out.

Finally..put a lid on the oil tank.

Wrong!! plank, required.

richieburke01

Shane007
Who do you train with

Mech1

muddle84 wrote: »

Mayo!


100k???? From an oil leak???? How does an oil leak cause 100k of damage to a house??



I know that and I am not implying that anyone is out to rip me off. As far as I can see it cant be that hard to sort the tank. I agree with you all that a technician should service it. But if I can have the tank sorted and save on an extra few hours labour all the better. I have enough things that I have to spend on the house besides this!

I should probably add that it is not just a need to save money, I have a general interest in how things work and fixing things. I am technically minded and quite competent with my hands.

Thanks for all your advice, it is much appreciated!

Ok you then would understand siphons, use a thin small bore hose to siphon off the water with minimal disturbance, let it settle after and try again. attatch a small weight close to the end of your hose to insure the end stays on the tank bottom. Bleed system first, change filters, bleed again, and go for startup.

If it fires let it run for an hour minimum to settle everything.

Get it serviced asap.

Snake

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Wrong!! plank, required.

If you want to save money on a plank call your local TD at least they'll do something useful for once that way

agusta

Yes 100K plus,
What happened was there was a slight leak/weep from the pipe from the oil tank,possibly from tilting the oil tank to get the last bit of oil out or a poorly made fitting.It probably was leaking over a couple of years.How much oil leaked i do not know.
The reason the owners didnt smell the kerosene was because they are farm contractors and they thought the smell was coming from the tractors parked near the tank.Eventually they realised there was a problem and they had to get the insurance and the EPA involved.The EPA looked after it from there.
The owners had to move out of house for 4 months.The percolation area had to be excavated down 15 feet,20 feet into house had to be excavated down 8 feet,stairs and heating system and kitchen had to be removed to excavate the floors.foundation footing had to be replaced and 30 feet by 10 feet of the yard had to be excavated down 8 feet,

shane 007

richieburke01 wrote: »

Shane007
Who do you train with

With your sworn enemy!

jimf

richieburke01 wrote: »

Shane007
Who do you train with

Kilkenny camogie team juniors of course :eek: