Should irish be an optional subject to everyone ?

Deathscythe

Personally I find Irish quite a useless subject so I would like to see what everyone else's thinks about it. I asked my class 1 out of 30 said it was important and useful.

Xgracie

It would be a terrible shame if we were ever to lose our national language, it's unique and interesting and important to Irish culture

Deathscythe

Xgracie wrote: »

It would be a terrible shame if we were ever to lose our national language, it's unique and interesting and important to Irish culture

Say what, nobody speaks Irish it is as dead as Latin. I can't also see how its interesting you know I would rather do home economics instead. You actually learn something your gonna use.

Blue giant

It should definitely be compulsory up until the junior cert at least. Maybe optional for leaving cert. However I think the main problems lie with both the syllabus and the way it is thought. It should be thought similarly to French like a second language which it is for the majority.

pizzamad

I love irish and would never want it to be optional. It's a fantastic language.

smiles_1998

Blue giant wrote: »

It should definitely be compulsory up until the junior cert at least. Maybe optional for leaving cert. However I think the main problems lie with both the syllabus and the way it is thought. It should be thought similarly to French like a second language which it is for the majority.

Agreed :-) one if the main reasons I detest Irish is because it is taught as if it is a first language for everyone

Xgracie

Deathscythe wrote: »

Say what, nobody speaks Irish it is as dead as Latin. I can't also see how its interesting you know I would rather do home economics instead. You actually learn something your gonna use.

Never heard of a Gaeltacht? Why didn't you pick home ec then? I don't find business interesting doesn't mean it's 'useless', people have different interests

Xgracie

Blue giant wrote: »

It should definitely be compulsory up until the junior cert at least. Maybe optional for leaving cert. However I think the main problems lie with both the syllabus and the way it is thought. It should be thought similarly to French like a second language which it is for the majority.

So true! The syllabus is really bad like just rote learning answers about poems and stories

VG31

I think it would be better if it was taught like French, Spanish and German. The current way they teach it from primary school is not good.

Manutd_4life

Absolutely hate the language. The way its taught, oh god don't get me started. Seriously, watching paint dry is more entertaining than listening to the language forget learning it. And thats really the main problem. There trying to teach us irish literature with poetry and random ass stories when we can't even have a bloody conversation in the language. WTF :O. And the fact that its a language that is going in decline and dead and useless makes it even more depressing to learn.

I understand the whole 'revival of our national language' concept most people are on about but whats the point reviving it when your not going to use it outside school, outside your home and out in communities. I would like for the language to be optional for LC but in all fairness i'd prefer to get rid of the language as a whole. God knows what inspires irish teachers to do what they do!!!

Yolo141

I agree that the way it is taught is outdated, it needs to be changed. However it is our culture and we should be proud of the language. Other countries with minority languages embrace it so why do us Irish have such hatred for something that is unique! It should remain compulsary!

Xgracie

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Absolutely hate the language. The way its taught, oh god don't get me started. Seriously, watching paint dry is more entertaining than listening to the language forget learning it. And thats really the main problem. There trying to teach us irish literature with poetry and random ass stories when we can't even have a bloody conversation in the language. WTF :O. And the fact that its a language that is going in decline and dead and useless makes it even more depressing to learn.

I understand the whole 'revival of our national language' concept most people are on about but whats the point reviving it when your not going to use it outside school, outside your home and out in communities. I would like for the language to be optional for LC but in all fairness i'd prefer to get rid of the language as a whole. God knows what inspires irish teachers to do what they do!!!

An interest for the language maybe? If you go into a class with an open mind and try and appreciate what you're learning it's actually ok! Ireland has such a rich and interesting history and the language plays such a role in that it would (in my opinion) be a shame for it to just disappear
Totally agree about the way it's taught tho should definitely be more like French etc.
have to say tho I had a really good primary school teacher who I picked up a lot of Irish from

Manutd_4life

Xgracie wrote: »

An interest for the language maybe? If you go into a class with an open mind and try and appreciate what you're learning it's actually ok! Ireland has such a rich and interesting history and the language plays such a role in that it would (in my opinion) be a shame for it to just disappear
Totally agree about the way it's taught tho should definitely be more like French etc.
have to say tho I had a really good primary school teacher who I picked up a lot of Irish from

But where does that interest come from. You don't just wake up one morning and suddenly have an interest for something. You need to inspired and the irish teachers and the way they teach it nowadays makes it far from interesting in my opinion.

Eims14

Irish should definitely remain compulsory .The way it's thought in most schools by the sounds of it needs to be changed that doesnt mean it should be eradicated.You could say the same about home Ec really like in your future life your never going to need to know about the kitchen triangle thingy but it doesn't make the whole subject irrelevant.I think there should be more of an emphasis on the culture of it and learning how to speak it instead of learning about Calua the whale who goes swimming and *spoiler alert* his family are harpooned but you could make the same argument about the merits of learning about a bunch of anti-semitics who lived in Venice in English or an area of low-population density in Geography

Deathscythe

Xgracie wrote: »

Never heard of a Gaeltacht? Why didn't you pick home ec then? I don't find business interesting doesn't mean it's 'useless', people have different interests

Listen up in the school I am going to home economics is taught only for leaving certificate. Also the gaeltacht should only be the place where Irish is taught if it is spoken in that desolate area. That would be okay cos I will never speak it.

yvngceebs

The way Irish is taught in primary and secondary is not very good, lets be honest. I do, however, understand why it is compulsory for the JC (ask yourself: why are subjects such as History, Geography and Science compulsory) , but I fully believe that it should be optional for the LC. If you plan on pursuing a degree in Irish or primary school teaching, sure go for it. If you don't, don't continue it.

I mean ---modern--- languages such as Italian, Spanish, German, French and Japanese are being picked up better than Irish - the native language -- how embarrassing!!

Personally, I am not good at Irish and I would love to drop it. I don't know whether my dislike for Irish roots from the fact that English is not my first language ( Dutch is. I lost my fluency, though. I also lost my fluency in another native language...Twi.) and when I moved to Ireland I was forced to learn English and Irish at the same time at school.


Anyways, Irish should be optional. No point reviving something that is dead.

Snake

Xgracie wrote: »

Never heard of a Gaeltacht? Why didn't you pick home ec then? I don't find business interesting doesn't mean it's 'useless', people have different interests

Business can be a chosen subject in most schools if not all of them... Your argument is basically invalid

Deathscythe

retrogamefan wrote: »

Business can be a chosen subject in most schools if not all of them... Your argument is basically invalid

I'm with Ye

Snake

I was in school up until junior cert... And all the while from junior infants to 3rd year I learned nothing... I can't speak a word of Irish.. So it's a waste of time because if someone doesn't want to learn something they just won't learn it... Simple as

Deathscythe

retrogamefan wrote: »

I was in school up until junior cert... And all the while from junior infants to 3rd year I learned nothing... I can't speak a word of Irish.. So it's a waste of time because if someone doesn't want to learn something they just won't learn it... Simple as

Yeah I've got to slave through it now till leaving cert. English isn't my first language its Arabic. But unfortunately I was born in Ireland. Biggest bad buzz on me.

Peregrine

yvngceebs wrote: »

Personally, I am not good at Irish and I would love to drop it. I don't know whether my dislike for Irish roots from the fact that English is not my first language ( Dutch is. I lost my fluency, though. I also lost my fluency in another native language...Twi.) and when I moved to Ireland I was forced to learn English and Irish at the same time at school.


Anyways, Irish should be optional. No point reviving something that is dead.

You shouldn't have been taught Irish if you weren't fluent in English. You should have been exempted from Irish.

Irish is not a dead language. A dying language, definitely, and much of the blame lies with the way it was taught but it's far from a dead language.

Deathscythe

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

You shouldn't have been taught Irish if you weren't fluent in English. You should have been exempted from Irish.

Irish is not a dead language. A dying language, definitely, and much of the blame lies with the way it was taught but it's far from a dead language.

It is a dead language because if it wasn't then you should hear all Irish people speaking it as a first. If Irish was alive then it would be impossible to go around Ireland without knowing how to speak Irish. It is being pretended that it is alive so no gaeltacht person gets upset.

yvngceebs

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

You shouldn't have been taught Irish if you weren't fluent in English. You should have been exempted from Irish.

Irish is not a dead language. A dying language, definitely, and much of the blame lies with the way it was taught but it's far from a dead language.

I moved to Ireland when I was 5, turning six. According to some law, you have to have moved here at the minimum age of 11 to be exempt.

And you're very correct. I take my final statement back, Irish isn't completely dead.

Snake

Deathscythe wrote: »

It is a dead language because if it wasn't then you should hear all Irish people speaking it as a first. If Irish was alive then it would be impossible to go around Ireland without knowing how to speak Irish. It is being pretended that it is alive so no gaeltacht person gets upset.

Well there's parts that speak it and ministers and TDs and ****e speak it so not dead but not popular anymore.. It's just a pain to learn but it's unfortunate in the sense it's part of our country... Blame the British be grand sure

Xgracie

retrogamefan wrote: »

Business can be a chosen subject in most schools if not all of them... Your argument is basically invalid

How hahahaha replace business with science if it makes you happier

Snake

Xgracie wrote: »

How hahahaha replace business with science if it makes you happier

Because you're comparing a subject which you chose to one which you're given that's how your argument is invalid, how could you think it's an intelligent argument

Deathscythe

Xgracie wrote: »

How hahahaha replace business with science if it makes you happier

It's a useless argument not all schools allow you to choose subjects. I just don't get your interest in Irish.

Peregrine

Deathscythe wrote: »

It is a dead language because if it wasn't then you should hear all Irish people speaking it as a first. If Irish was alive then it would be impossible to go around Ireland without knowing how to speak Irish. It is being pretended that it is alive so no gaeltacht person gets upset.

Please look up the definition of dead.

Hundreds of thousands of people still speak it. It's not dead. It is dying bit it's not dead yet.

yvngceebs wrote: »

I moved to Ireland when I was 5, turning six. According to some law, you have to have moved here at the minimum age of 11 to be exempt.

True.

Unless you couldn't speak English. In which case you should have been taught either English or Irish. You should have been exempt if you couldn't speak English.

Read the December 1996 circular about Irish exemptions.

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/pc12_96.doc Clicking downloads a .doc file.
1.d

Mr Pseudonym

This has been done soo many times before! Arguments for: less than three percent claim to speak the language (outside of school) on a daily basis; deprives "more useful" subjects of class-time; "dead language". Arguments against: part of our heritage; merely taught badly at present; many cognitive benefits to bilingualism.

My own tuppence: the question should be on the ballot paper of the next referendum. I imagine it would not pass. It should then be reformed. Two subjects: Irish Language and Culture and Irish Literature. One must be taken, and the first would have a maximum score of, say, fifty points (rather than A1-D3, there would be three scoring bands, like for LCVP).

Deathscythe

Dear Nimrod if you really think hundreds of thousands of people speak Irish then your wrong because they are all senior citizens the language is dying with them. It is complete bull**** if you think the new generation speak it. People only speak it in remote areas of the gaeltacht.

Deathscythe

Irish is only spoken in Ireland but French is spoken in France and many parts of Africa that's what you call a useful language.

Mr Pseudonym

Just so we're all on the same page, 40% of the population answered Yes to the census-question, "Can you speak Irish?" 3% claimed to speak the language on a daily basis. The post-school age-range with the highest Yes response was 20-24 (44%).

Irish speakers | 2011 Census

yvngceebs

I didn't speak English at all. I was only fluent in Dutch and Twi (An African native language), so technically, I should be exempt. Wow, I'm upset hmm. Anyways, I do pass Irish so it's grand

Peregrine

Deathscythe wrote: »

Dear Nimrod if you really think hundreds of thousands of people speak Irish then your wrong because they are all senior citizens the language is dying with them. It is complete bull**** if you think the new generation speak it. People only speak it in remote areas of the gaeltacht.

No need for the temper.

Anyway, 1.7 million people said they're able to speak it in the 2011 census. While we both know that's bullshit, if you truly think the actual number is less than 100,000 then you're deluding yourself.

If anyone thinks I'm a fluent Irish speaker with a pro-Irish agenda, I hated the subject. In fact, I only came here when I was 10 but like yvngceebs, I was never exempted even though I couldn't speak English properly. I finally convinced my principal to let me drop it in 5th year.

yvngceebs wrote: »

so technically, I should be exempt. Wow, I'm upset hmm. Anyways, I do pass Irish so it's grand

Should have been exempt. I don't think retrospective exmeptions are granted.

If you look for one now, your principal will most likely say "You had no problem with it for 10 years. So why should you be exempt?"

yvngceebs

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Should have been exempt. I don't think retrospective exmeptions are granted.

If you look for one now, your principal will most likely say "Well, you had no problem with it for 10 years. So why should you be exempt?"

I suppose I never really had a problem with it because I was always told I had to be 11 or over to be exempt. Only two years left of it anyways and my principal definitely won't let me drop it.

Mr Pseudonym

We see percentage jumps for those starting school compared with previous age-group, peaks at end-of-primary/beginning-of-secondary, declines until 25-29, then plateaus at about 35%.

Deathscythe

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

No need for the temper.

Anyway, 1.7 million people said they're able to speak it in the 2011 census. While we both know that's bullshit, if you truly think the actual number is less than 100,000 then you're deluding yourself.

If anyone thinks I'm a fluent Irish speaker with a pro-Irish agenda, I hated the subject. In fact, I only came here when I was 10 but like yvngceebs, I was never exempted even though I couldn't speak English properly. I finally convinced my principal to let me drop it in 5th year.



Should have been. I don't think retrospective exmeptions are granted.

I know what you mean I find it quite annoying that I can't drop the subject . 90% of my class want to drop it . They all believe that any other subject would better to do then irish.

Xgracie

retrogamefan wrote: »

Because you're comparing a subject which you chose to one which you're given that's how your argument is invalid, how could you think it's an intelligent argument

Ok

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xgracie wrote: »

It would be a terrible shame if we were ever to lose our national language, it's unique and interesting and important to Irish culture

Had this discussion over in AH a while back and a lot people jumped to the ame wrong conclusion.

We're not talkign about scrapping it, we're talking about it being optinoal. Let those who want to do it, do it - let those who don't, don't.

There is nothing the Irish langauge is going to do for a disinterested student that some other subject won't. Good for learnign foreign langauges? Then learn a foreign langauge. Good for expressing your national pride? Who says I have national pride? And if I did, why can't I express it through another media, like art or dance or hurling?

Xgracie

Deathscythe wrote: »

It's a useless argument not all schools allow you to choose subjects. I just don't get your interest in Irish.

Don't understand the first sentence and I'm not even that interested in the language per say but I think it's cool Ireland has it's on language and all for such a small place, also people are interested in different things!

burtslimpslon

I agree that Irish is not exactly "useful" but i think it would be a shame if it wasn't thought as it would be a lose of Irish culture. Im in 3rd year and i think the main problem with Irish is how its thought, its just the English course translated to Irish which makes it boring and not interesting to learn. I would be more promoting changing how its thought then changing if its thought.

Xgracie

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Had this discussion over in AH a while back and a lot people jumped to the ame wrong conclusion.

We're not talkign about scrapping it, we're talking about it being optinoal. Let those who want to do it, do it - let those who don't, don't.

There is nothing the Irish langauge is going to do for a disinterested student that some other subject won't. Good for learnign foreign langauges? Then learn a foreign langauge. Good for expressing your national pride? Who says I have national pride? And if I did, why can't I express it through another media, like art or dance or hurling?

Yeah like if they were to change the syllabus or make it optional for LC maybe it would be ok I was speaking as if the person wanted it abolished from schools altogether

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xgracie wrote: »

Yeah like if they were to change the syllabus or make it optional for LC maybe it would be ok I was speaking as if the person wanted it abolished from schools altogether

Clearly states optional and makes no reference to abolition.

Deathscythe

Xgracie wrote: »

Yeah like if they were to change the syllabus or make it optional for LC maybe it would be ok I was speaking as if the person wanted it abolished from schools altogether

That's what I was going on about I would love to have a choice to do Irish then having me forced to do it by law. I don't mind maths or any other subject its just Irish that I kind of despise.

carlowmurphy

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

Manutd_4life

carlowmurphy wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

Nothing better than being able to have a conversation in irish!!!!! Your joking right.

Deathscythe

carlowmurphy wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

I'm doing jc this year. If it was optional it would kinda make it acceptable to say many people speak it. Because when people choose to do it you will kinda know that these people are the people who will speak it not who are believed to speak it but don't.

Deathscythe

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Nothing better than being able to have a conversation in irish!!!!! Your joking right.

HaHa

Mr Pseudonym

carlowmurphy wrote: »

Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language.

May be the case. But it's not currently achieved.

mlumley

Well, As an Englishman, living in Ireland for nearly 20 years, I am about to start learning it. I watched a program years ago on RTE, but the girl spoke toooooo fast. It basically was for Irish people to relearn. It put me off. Then Sharon from RTE news tried it, I'd watch anything she was in. But again it was for people who already knew some Irish. I have turned to the internweb and found a site for people who know no Irish at all.

I think after all the crap I have read on boards and other sites, about how Britain forced you into learning a foreign language, and ditching your own, no0 pun intended. I think it would be a shame for you to get rid of it.

I make sure my son (10) does his Irish. I ask him to sing in Irish.

Please please don't forget your roots, it is where you came from.

People were persecuted for speaking it. Keep your language alive, speak it whenever you can.

That way, you will have defeated the British. You kept your language.

Hey, but don't mind me, i'm just a brit living in your land. Wish you all talked Irish, I'd have had to learn it years ago.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

carlowmurphy wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

Again - why can people not differentiate between Irish being "optional" and "abolished"...? Seriously trying to get my head around this one.

Compulsory Irish will not - and has not at any time in resent history - be the life or death of the lanaguge.