ball in garden

BenRowe

If kids continually kick ball in garden can you refuse to return it ?

punisher5112

Have they broken anything?

Is it been done on purpose?

Could you have a word with the parents?

Some would say you don't have to give back but then kids been kids they may try get into your garden so probably to cause less stress just send it back over at some point doesn't have to be the second it came over.

Peregrinus

No, you can't. In general, if something is given to you by mistake, then you're obliged to return it, e.g. an overpayment of wages. I don't see that a ball coming into your garden would be any different.

You don't have to let the kids come in to retreive it. But you do have to hand it back.

Vego

Hand it back ........with a puncture

Graces7

QUOTE=BenRowe;89970956]If kids continually kick ball in garden can you refuse to return it ?[/QUOTE]

did this long ago in desperation and it did stop the problem.it was happening many times each day

there was a holiday let behind me and they then got one of those balls attached to a pole.

sometimes you have to make a point

Mobile Dj

Hard to believe you have a problem with a ball in the garden... what did you do as a kid?

Do you have kids of your own, It happens and to be honest if that's all you have to worry about in life....

Great to see that they are kicking ball when most kids these days are sitting in front of video games etc.

They will grow up an move on, to a bigger play area, I am guessing you live in an estate, where the gardens are not large enough for a game of ball leading to the issue you are having.

Mention to them that you do not like the ball in the garden or allow them to retrieve it themselves when it does, I doubt they are doing it to p**s you off.

winston82

Mobile Dj wrote: »

Hard to believe you have a problem with a ball in the garden... what did you do as a kid?

Do you have kids of your own, It happens and to be honest if that's all you have to worry about in life....

Great to see that they are kicking ball when most kids these days are sitting in front of video games etc.

They will grow up an move on, to a bigger play area, I am guessing you live in an estate, where the gardens are not large enough for a game of ball leading to the issue you are having.

Mention to them that you do not like the ball in the garden or allow them to retrieve it themselves when it does, I doubt they are doing it to p**s you off.

Exactly, let them hop over and get it themselves. Kids will be kids.

the_syco

BenRowe wrote: »

If kids continually kick ball in garden can you refuse to return it ?

Front or rear garden? Rear garden; wait until they try to trespass, and then give out to them. Tell them that you'll return the ball when their parents come over and ask for it.

Personally, I trespassed mostly get the ball back, but one house, if it went in, game over!

Pumpkinseeds

I'd suggest having a word with the parents and or maybe telling the kids to move off closer to their own homes. We had a ball coming into the front garden wrecking the plants and often hitting off the window, so I just told them to go down the green to their own houses.

As for keeping the ball, I really wouldn't, it'll just antagonise them and you don't want it getting worse or having some irate parent knocking on your door to complain. My father in law tried keeping the ball when he had that problem, the end result was him getting a rock thrown at his window and he had to shell out for a new pane of glass.

234

This all seems like it would be covered by the comments in Miller v Jackson. You can refuse entry to your property. But once you move or use the ball in any way then you are liable in conversion. So unless you want to have your garden decorated with an interesting but inconvenient series of static footballs, it's best to allow the kids to retrieve them.

BenRowe

Mobile Dj wrote: »

Hard to believe you have a problem with a ball in the garden... what did you do as a kid?

Do you have kids of your own, It happens and to be honest if that's all you have to worry about in life....

Great to see that they are kicking ball when most kids these days are sitting in front of video games etc.

They will grow up an move on, to a bigger play area, I am guessing you live in an estate, where the gardens are not large enough for a game of ball leading to the issue you are having.

Mention to them that you do not like the ball in the garden or allow them to retrieve it themselves when it does, I doubt they are doing it to p**s you off.

just keep out of it if you cannot answer the question, i do not need you to preach to me

BenRowe

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'd suggest having a word with the parents and or maybe telling the kids to move off closer to their own homes. We had a ball coming into the front garden wrecking the plants and often hitting off the window, so I just told them to go down the green to their own houses.

As for keeping the ball, I really wouldn't, it'll just antagonise them and you don't want it getting worse or having some irate parent knocking on your door to complain. My father in law tried keeping the ball when he had that problem, the end result was him getting a rock thrown at his window and he had to shell out for a new pane of glass.

don't you think they have been told? And why would an irate parent come to me when their spoilt kids are causing the problems, maybe i will be the irate one.

imitation

234 wrote: »

This all seems like it would be covered by the comments in Miller v Jackson. You can refuse entry to your property. But once you move or use the ball in any way then you are liable in conversion. So unless you want to have your garden decorated with an interesting but inconvenient series of static footballs, it's best to allow the kids to retrieve them.

So the pragmatic thing to do is to wait a few weeks and kick them all back over. Might be a bit cathartic as well !

Teyla Emmagan

Tell them that you didn't find a ball in the garden.

BenRowe

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Tell them that you didn't find a ball in the garden.

they can see it

Peregrinus

Well, you can have a Demilitarized Zone-type situation whereby neither you nor they can touch the ball and the grass grows long around it. Or you can give it back to them. Or you can let them come and get it. Those are your options.

Slicemeister

Who's to say what punctured it if you gave it back to them that way?
Had the same problem myself and eventually lost it, told them the next kid entering my property would be painting the fence and washing the pavement. It worked.

Kids will be kids sure, you gotta define their limits to them if their own parents won't.

Teyla Emmagan

BenRowe wrote: »

they can see it

Unless they are shouting over the fence for you to throw it back they are going to have to take their eye off it to walk around to the front door. You could disappear it in that space of time. Or stop answering the door to them. I have binned a few balls in my time and feel perfectly fine about myself.

K.Flyer

Do not allow anyone into your back garden to retrieve a ball, especially children.
Unfortunately with the times and country we live in, if one of them trips, or falls or injures themselves in any way while on your property, you could very easily find yourself having a claim made against you..
Be nice, but firm and tell them if they keep doing it that you won't give it back.
Bring the ball in and give it back the next day. If it keeps happening, keep extending the time it takes to return the ball. If you are asked why it takes so long to return the ball, just say you were very busy.

Nozebleed

I,ve had a running battle with a group of kids about tbe ball goin over the back wall..thing is i have an ornamental flower garden which has taken years to develop,they little feckers have no concern for the garden and would hop over trampling everything...so i gave them a telling off. It then became a nightmare, instead of hopping the wall they,d knock in 10 times a day. My solution now is get the ball,smear dog doo on it and throw it back over the wall. Its working.

check_six

BenRowe wrote: »

Mobile Dj wrote: »

Hard to believe you have a problem with a ball in the garden... what did you do as a kid? ...

just keep out of it if you cannot answer the question, i do not need you to preach to me

BenRowe wrote: »

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I'd suggest having a word with the parents and or maybe telling the kids to move off closer to their own homes. We had a ball coming into the front garden wrecking the plants and often hitting off the window, so I just told them to go down the green to their own houses.

don't you think they have been told? And why would an irate parent come to me when their spoilt kids are causing the problems, maybe i will be the irate one..

Ouch! Doesn't look you're getting your posts back here lads.

Simple answer, you can't keep the ball.

I can't remember ever kicking a ball over a wall deliberately, it was always a fingertip save gone astray, or a power shot balooned out of the "stadium". I lived next to a cranky auld fella in my youth and he was always moaning when various sports apparatus ended up in his garden. He was a religious nut too, but I don't know if that contributed to his miserable demeanour. We tried our best to avoid anything going in there, but accidents did happen.

If someone drives a cricketball through your window, fair enough, you have a legitimate grievance, but if it's a football landing on your lawn every now and then, what harm?

Kids running around in their garden has got to be better long term than giving them a playstation and a bucket of fizzy pop. Although, I suppose, you could try that if you were feeling particularly vindictive...

OldNotWIse

Peregrinus wrote: »

No, you can't. In general, if something is given to you by mistake, then you're obliged to return it, e.g. an overpayment of wages. I don't see that a ball coming into your garden would be any different.

You don't have to let the kids come in to retreive it. But you do have to hand it back.

Would p1ss me off having to do that all the time.

Losty Dublin

Nozebleed wrote: »

My solution now is get the ball,smear dog doo on it and throw it back over the wall. Its working.

You are a nasty person to even consider doing this.

OldNotWIse

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You are a nasty person to even consider doing this.

You're right, dog doo is just mean. I prefer to cover it with honey -its sweeter and I can live in hope they get attacked by a swarm of bees :pac:

BenRowe

check_six wrote: »

Ouch! Doesn't look you're getting your posts back here lads.

Simple answer, you can't keep the ball.

I can't remember ever kicking a ball over a wall deliberately, it was always a fingertip save gone astray, or a power shot balooned out of the "stadium". I lived next to a cranky auld fella in my youth and he was always moaning when various sports apparatus ended up in his garden. He was a religious nut too, but I don't know if that contributed to his miserable demeanour. We tried our best to avoid anything going in there, but accidents did happen.

If someone drives a cricketball through your window, fair enough, you have a legitimate grievance, but if it's a football landing on your lawn every now and then, what harm?

Kids running around in their garden has got to be better long term than giving them a playstation and a bucket of fizzy pop. Although, I suppose, you could try that if you were feeling particularly vindictive...

and who paid for the plants in the garden.?

BenRowe

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Would p1ss me off having to do that all the time.

i do not intend to do it.

irish gent

You have to return it !! its there property The Garda can be called it you don't return it .I remember reading this somewhere.

OldNotWIse

irish gent wrote: »

You have to return it !! its there property The Garda can be called it you don't return it .I remember reading this somewhere.

lol, yes call the under-resourced, already strained gardai because the nasty neighbour wont give their ball back...I think that should only work in an Enid Blighton book....Jolly good then lets have some tongue sandwiches while we wait for the ball to come back.

dantastic

Could you charge a standard fee for your services?

NUTLEY BOY

Vego wrote: »

Hand it back ........with a puncture

Naughty Criminal damage ?? ;)

endacl

Could you not kick a few balls into their garden every now and again, OP. Like an exchange scheme? Over time, ye might even forget who owns which ball, and you could come out ahead! It'd be a loada balls at that point, but kind of sounds as if it's heading in that direction anyway.

BenRowe

K.Flyer wrote: »

Do not allow anyone into your back garden to retrieve a ball, especially children.
Unfortunately with the times and country we live in, if one of them trips, or falls or injures themselves in any way while on your property, you could very easily find yourself having a claim made against you..
.

ido not intend to let them in. curious to make a claim would they have to fall over something i had let in a dangerous way or anything?

I know someone who has an old jeep in their drive and kids go and play on it. If they fell would the person be liable? just curious.

Also in an open plan area where kids go into every garden would the owner be responsible if they hurt themselves. How would you stop them coming in in an open plan?

mcgarrett

BenRowe wrote: »

If kids continually kick ball in garden can you refuse to return it ?

If they request the return of the ball and you refuse then you are guilty of theft.
You are aware it is in your possession and you are now depriving them of it.

OldNotWIse

mcgarrett wrote: »

If they request the return of the ball and you refuse then you are guilty of theft.
You are aware it is in your possession and you are now depriving them of it.

Good luck in the courts with that one.

OldNotWIse

BenRowe wrote: »

ido not intend to let them in. curious to make a claim would they have to fall over something i had let in a dangerous way or anything?

I know someone who has an old jeep in their drive and kids go and play on it. If they fell would the person be liable? just curious.

Also in an open plan area where kids go into every garden would the owner be responsible if they hurt themselves. How would you stop them coming in in an open plan?

Yes. Thanks to occupier's liability combined with the hysterical "wont someone please think of the children" attitude and our ridiculous claim culture...you can easily find yourself up sh1t creek.

Dont let the little b*stards in. Throw it back once with a warning ie; if you do it again I'm not passing it back. If they do it again, leave it. If the parents want to sue you for being a big criminal...let them. (Dont forget to put the coke in the fridge and the popcorn in the microwave)

check_six

BenRowe wrote: »

and who paid for the plants in the garden.?

Worst damage we did was knock a couple of ripe apples off a tree one time, but you seem to know a bit too much about my neighbour for it to be a coincidence...

You did a convincing job of being dead for the last twenty years, I'll give you that.

the_syco

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You are a nasty person to even consider doing this.

They'd be a lot more careful where the ball goes in future!

mcgarrett

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Good luck in the courts with that one.

OP asked a question, the simple answer is, if the Gardai get a complaint of theft they will investigate it, whether it ends in an adult caution, prosecution or no further action it's all inconvenience for the OP.

Lot less hassle to throw the ball back to the kids, it's part and parcel of having neighbours.

234

mcgarrett wrote: »

If they request the return of the ball and you refuse then you are guilty of theft.
You are aware it is in your possession and you are now depriving them of it.

How does that meet the standard of dishonest misappropriation?

BenRowe

check_six wrote: »

Worst damage we did was knock a couple of ripe apples off a tree one time, but you seem to know a bit too much about my neighbour for it to be a coincidence...

You did a convincing job of being dead for the last twenty years, I'll give you that.

my garden i meant

mcgarrett

234 wrote: »

How does that meet the standard of dishonest misappropriation?

He has just been asked to return property in his possession that isn't his. He has now decided not to return the property even though he is aware it belongs to another.
He has now appropriated the property and in those circumstances how can he possibly believe he is acting honestly?

fenris

There is no obligation on you to drop everything and throw the ball back straight away, just throw it back out when you get around to it. If it happens a lot then you may find that there is an increasing delay in throwing the ball back.

Teyla Emmagan

Nozebleed wrote: »

My solution now is get the ball,smear dog doo on it and throw it back over the wall. Its working.

That is GENIUS!!

Peregrinus

“Appropriates” is defined for the purpose of the theft offence in Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 s. 4(5). It means “. . . usurps or adversely interferes with the proprietary rights of the owner of the property”.

But the owner of the ball has no right, as owner, to demand that the householder return it to him. The householder is not in the position of, say, a bailee of the ball, who would have to surrender it to the owner. Consequently, in simply failing to return the ball, the householder is not doing anything that “usurps or adversely interferes with the proprietary rights” of the owner of the ball.

And, remember, as a penal provision s. 4 is going to be strictly construed. I don’t think a theft charge can succeed purely on the basis of the householder’s failure to return the ball.

MarkR

fenris wrote: »

There is no obligation on you to drop everything and throw the ball back straight away, just throw it back out when you get around to it. If it happens a lot then you may find that there is an increasing delay in throwing the ball back.

That's my thought on it. Tell them you'll throw it back later. Throw it over in an hour or so. If it continues, hold off until the next day.

Mobile Dj

Maybe suggesting letting them get themselves may be the wrong advice,due to possible liability in the case of an accident.

Throw it back when you get to it. Buy a stress ball as the kids are off for another week so I am assuming the issue will be more frequent.

Good luck.

LynnGrace

mcgarrett wrote: »

OP asked a question, the simple answer is, if the Gardai get a complaint of theft they will investigate it, whether it ends in an adult caution, prosecution or no further action it's all inconvenience for the OP.

Lot less hassle to throw the ball back to the kids, it's part and parcel of having neighbours.

I doubt if the guards have the time or resources to get involved in such a case?

It's good to see kids out playing, however it is also good if their parents keep an eye on what they are doing, and that includes not deliberately or otherwise damaging other people's property by kicking ball where there are cars parked, or plants, trees etc sown.

IME, some parents ensure that their kids never play near their own houses/ cars and when the neighbours get pissed off about damage caused, the neighbours are somehow at fault.

234

mcgarrett wrote: »

He has just been asked to return property in his possession that isn't his. He has now decided not to return the property even though he is aware it belongs to another.
He has now appropriated the property and in those circumstances how can he possibly believe he is acting honestly?

Inertia isn't enough to meet the standard of a criminal offence. He has not "appropriated" the ball in any way, even on a everyday language reading this would require something akin to a positive act. The same could be said for dishonest: there is nothing dishonest about not returning the ball. He is not denying where it is, who owns it, etc, he is just saying that I will make no effort to return it to you.

Any issues here would be civil rather than criminal.

padraig.od

Nozebleed wrote: »

I,ve had a running battle with a group of kids about tbe ball goin over the back wall..thing is i have an ornamental flower garden which has taken years to develop,they little feckers have no concern for the garden and would hop over trampling everything...so i gave them a telling off. It then became a nightmare, instead of hopping the wall they,d knock in 10 times a day. My solution now is get the ball,smear dog doo on it and throw it back over the wall. Its working.

You let your dogs shyte in your ornamental flower garden?

Mobile Dj

BenRowe wrote: »

just keep out of it if you cannot answer the question, i do not need you to preach to me

Just spotted this,

Chances are they hop over the wall to get it when you are out anyway. Preach nah, just stating what I think of it, been there and never had an issue. neighbours kids when we moved in came to our door mainly during holidays and asked if they could get the ball back and years later my own kids where knocking on the neighbours door asking for their ball.

This has been going on for years so would not be uncommon, not worth getting worked up about it, explain to them that the ball is damaging plants and be more careful.

OldNotWIse

mcgarrett wrote: »

OP asked a question, the simple answer is, if the Gardai get a complaint of theft they will investigate it, whether it ends in an adult caution, prosecution or no further action it's all inconvenience for the OP.

Lot less hassle to throw the ball back to the kids, it's part and parcel of having neighbours.

And a complete and petty waste of garda time when we have bigger things to be worrying about like people being shot dead in broad daylight and kidnappings and robberies.

Edit: whats an "adult caution"?